View Full Version : What Did You Say?
FUNKMAN
03-27-2002, 05:44 AM
I was talking to my Grandfather the other day, he is 87 and he made a comment:
He stated that the reason why the Irish have done well for the most part, in the United States is because they are one of the few immigrants that spoke good english...
This gave them a very good start in this Country.
I myself am a strong believer in that it should be "Mandatory" for every citizen to learn and speak english, i feel it is a fair thing to ask...
How do you feel about it?
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fatty
03-27-2002, 05:57 AM
Que?
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erinmoran
03-27-2002, 06:00 AM
It is very fair....you should be able to speak english in order to work , drive a car , go to school and pay taxes
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Pootertoot
03-27-2002, 06:03 AM
and pay taxes
No Habla Engles, Senor.
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erinmoran
03-27-2002, 06:08 AM
heh heh heh....correction
In order to live in this country....you would have to pay taxes if you want to work...... speaking and writing english would be mandatory english=mandatory
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I agree Funkman.
My grandparents parents came to America around 1900. They were among the first Italians to come to CT. With a limited education and speaking no English, they were determined to work hard and learn English. They overcame these obtsacles and "made it" here.
The funny thing is that they refused to teach their children (my grandparents and their siblings) Italian. Their belief was that they "were American now and they will speak English".
I'm glad they were so determined to learn English to better assimilate but I wish they passed down more of the Italian roots. I think it's possible (and beneficial) to do both.
wilee
03-27-2002, 07:12 AM
I think it would be a good idea to establish an official language for the US. It would cut costs in regard to printing official documents in multiple languages which could save millions. Of course you will have Civil Liberties groups complaining about it, but if an English-speaking American were to move to Italy or Japan, would he expect to have everything printed in English for him to function? Can't wait till the "Star Trek Universal Translator" comes into being.
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Doogie
03-27-2002, 07:14 AM
Well this country has prided itself on the fact that there is no national language and that we are the "melting pot" society. However when even topgovernment officials speak only English, then perhaps it is time to designate what the national language should be...times change, and circumstances chang with it. This is a circumstance that has changed with it as well...
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Prince Neptune
03-27-2002, 09:33 AM
The last time I checked English is the national language of the USA and it is true we do pride ourselves on being a
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Jackie Sloan
03-27-2002, 09:46 AM
If immigrants don't want to learn english, that's fine. But don't expect our government to cater to you in your language, that's ridiculous. Adios!
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sunndoggy8
03-27-2002, 07:07 PM
I was talking to my Grandfather the other day, he is 87 and he made a comment: He stated that the reason why the Irish have done well for the most part, in the United States is because they are one of the few immigrants that spoke good english... This gave them a very good start in this Country.
FUNKMAN, while I have no doubt that your grandfather would have an interesting viewpoint on immigration, he's COMPLETELY WRONG here.
According to two prominent writers of immigration patterns, affects and myths, Stephen Steinberg(The Ethnic Myth) and Karen Brodkin(How Jews became white folks), whose books specifically address the success and failure of immigrant groups, (and numerous other patterns of immigration and ethnic myths), being able to speak english WAS NOT a main reason for Irish success. This is not just their opinion, but common opinion with students of assimilation patterns of immigrants.
In actuality, irish immigrants were at first considered as non-whites, and were treated as subhumans. Speaking englsh didn't help much there, and did not lead to a very good start. The males were mainly forced to work in lower paying menial jobs initially.
Furthermore, the Irish workers fought against comparisons of themselves to free black workers. They were often grouped as non-whites, and fought incredibly hard to be differentiated from the subhuman status that free blacks had, even though they often shared jobs and neighborhoods. There were numerous violent riots against African Americans by Irish Americans, who hated the comparisons that had to deal with to African Americans.. There was a consistent pushing out of blacks in order for Irish neighborhoods to be considered as white neighborhoods, so there would be no room for perceptible error that irish Americans were indeed white.
By doing this, and economically linking themselves to German immigrants, irish immigrants were able to in essense, whiten themselves so that they wouldn't be considered as subhumans. They also were big players in the formation of labor unions and the 10 hour workday (at the time). But language had nothing to do with their eventual success in assimilating to American society.
But FUNKMAN, your grandfather is right on one issue.the one thing that speaking English did help with was in terms of Irish female domestic servants, who did have an advantage in jobs by speaking English. This is why a lot of female single Irish American women migrated to the US and were partially successful.
In terms of knowing English helping, of course I would agree with that. It absolutely would help in assimilation. But given the fact, and I repeat, FACT, that 1 in 5 American high school graduates CAN'T READ at a high school reading level, immigrants aren't the only ones who need help in the English language.
It would be great to make English tests mandatory, but there are plenty of American born people who would fail those miserably too, as I said. And actually having strict guidelines on language testing, so that you can really speak English well, would probably be considered as impractical and even racist to many. I don't know a great deal about qualifying tests for LEGAL immigrants, but I would assume there are some sort of English tests.
I think for qualifying for a student visa, you need to take a test for English. But suppose you score a 60 on that test out of a 100.you passed, but should you still be allowed in, even though you barely know the language? Are only the top students who know English allowed in? And what about illegal immigrants? Many, specifically in the southern more agricultural dependent states, are encouraged to immigrate to the US for the season as cheap labor to farmers. The US has obviously not shown a stringent focused policy on anti-immigration. Anyone can see that. But I'm moving past the point here.
[quote]I think it would be a good idea to establish an official language for the US. It would cut costs in regard to printing official documents in multiple languages
Pootertoot
03-27-2002, 07:54 PM
If you travel elsewhere, they cater to us ignorant americans like crazy. Usually signs are bilingual, one native language, one english.
But that's 'cause we gots the cash.
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cheezeemee
03-27-2002, 08:04 PM
Some people are lazy or too dumb to learn a new language. That's why having only one language would be easier for them.
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This message was edited by cheezeemee on 3-28-02 @ 12:14 AM
furie
03-28-2002, 12:53 PM
The last time I checked English is the national language of the USA and it is true we do pride ourselves on being a
No, the US Does not have an official language, that's why it's possible for even naturalized citizen to get away with not speaking english.
But I agree people should, and i think the 28th ammendment should be mandatory English
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This message was edited by furie on 3-28-02 @ 5:08 PM
Knowledged_one
03-28-2002, 01:45 PM
English all the way, i hate going to an ATM machine and actually having to pick the langauge i want instructions in. How do non-english speaking people get a liscense, if you cant speak it is fair to say you cant read it yet people take drivers tests in spanish and last i checked there was no spanish signs out on the road.
But this goes along the lines of america coddling everyone, for instance an athlete comes to the United States, gets an athletic schloarship, trains here with the best training conditions, gets coached by the premeir coaches....and then competes for against this country in the olympics. Its time for america to start cracking down on the non-english being spoken. I took engineering classes and was alarmed at how bad Japanesse and chinese and arabic people cheat congregate and work without speaking a word of english and get degrees at universities without even trying the english langauge, god that is pure crap
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sunndoggy8
03-28-2002, 05:53 PM
No, the US Does not have an official language, that's why it's possible for even naturalized citizen to get away with not speaking english.
You are absolutely right. Actually, 27 states have English listed as their official language though.
English all the way, i hate going to an ATM machine and actually having to pick the langauge i want instructions in
Yea, pressing that button is a real nuisance. That little push really pisses me off. It may just be the most difficult thing I've ever had to do in my life.
And in terms of athletic training...whahuh? Is that the same as going to Europe to train under brilliant musicians then coming back to play in the states? Or possible the enormous brain drain that occurs in many third world countries to the US for a better education and better life? Why don't we all just live isolationalist lives and not interact with anyone from another country or state? Please.
I took engineering classes and was alarmed at how bad Japanesse and chinese and arabic people cheat congregate and work without speaking a word of english and get degrees at universities without even trying the english langauge, god that is pure crap
Okey I understand the cheating part, but really that's a problem for the university to deal with. Plenty of english speaking people cheat too.
Regarding their "congregation" and "working together", I'm not really surprised that they would speak their native languages to one another. That's not "alarming" at all, in my opinion.
Now if their doing it to cheat, of course it's unfair and wrong. But simply interacting with one another by speaking your native language aint all that wild.
Last time I checked, you have to pass at least english 101 and 102 to continue on in most colleges and universities. In order to get admission, if you are an immigrant, you need to take a standardized test and have a certain grade to get into college. If you're angry at the test standards, that's one thing, but then it's the test makers fault, not the immigrants'...sounds like their just trying to create a better life for themselves.
And once again, every single race cheats just as much at the next, in my opinion. Cheating isn't about race, it's about your own morals and standards.
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This message was edited by sunndoggy8 on 3-28-02 @ 9:54 PM
FUNKMAN
03-28-2002, 06:03 PM
FUNKMAN, while I have no doubt that your grandfather would have an interesting viewpoint on immigration, he's COMPLETELY WRONG here.
Sunny,
Thanks for the History lesson. Again, I'm never too old to learn...
Just one question, were you trying to be sarcastic with this statement?
Thanks!
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