Are we really in a recession??

[Dan]

I read the paper every day. I see all the news about bankruptcies and layoffs and stock market downturns. But, I've been reading Michael Moore's new book (Stupid White Men) and he argues we aren't really in a recession. He says it's just a plot by big corporations to make everyone think we are in a recession so that they don't have to share the wealth with the average working man. He points out that while everyone bemoans the dot.com bubble burst as a sign of recession, it's really just a facet of Capitalism. When something new or innovative comes out, a bunch of entreprenuers jump in and, after a while, the economy is bound to weed out the companies that can't hack. He gives the example that in 1920 (shortly after it's invention) there were 108 car manufactuers in the US, now there are 2 or 3. He also points out that even though companies like GM are posting losses now, they are still making far more cash than they did 10 years ago...far above the rate of inflation.

Now, I admire Michael Moore and I'd love to have a beer with the guy, but I never quite swallow everything he says. He seems to have a conspiracy for everything.

So, I'm asking you guys...what are your experiences?

If you are unemployed, did the job you most recently got laid off from even exist 10 years ago? Was your position a result of the boom and are you unemployed now simply because the boom ended?

If you work for a large company, are the big bosses selling their summer homes? Are they leasing new cars? Is your department being downsized and are you being told to tighten your belt, while they are moving the headquarters to bermuda to avoid taxes and make even more money?

Just what is the reality? Who should I believe?

Does anyone care?

[Yerdaddy]

Huh? Were you talking?

Really, the economy has become the biggest propaganda tool since the Cold War ended. For five years or so all we heard was that the "tech bubble" was an artificial inflation of the market, and that it could bust any day. Then when the economy even slowed a little, the only news was that the sky was falling. Conservatives were primed to use the economy as the vehicle to give gobs of money to corporations and the super rich in the name of "creating jobs", meanwhile they fought off any attempt to condition the tax breaks and handouts on hiring new workers or preventing layoffs. The corporations took the money and used it to buy up other companies, or give retention bonuses for their executives, and layed off workers like they had planned all along.

I have four friends who work for United, and they all said that United had been begging the unions for permission to lay off workers for years, and that 9-11 was just an opportunity to do just that. They took the government bailout and layed off the employees. And they didn't even do the layoffs by seniority, they laid off as many people with medical benefits as they could and retained those without. They want the old-school Industrial Revolution type capitalism, while keeping the government-subsidized socialism for themselves.

Now I'm getting all worked up. Huddela huddela! Think fart jokes.

The economy is for economists to get on TV. 90% of economic news is spin for someone's agenda. Michael Moore is only valuable when he's doing human interest stuff, like taking the sick guy who got dropped by his insurance company in to try to get him covered again. But on macroeconomic front, he's too dogmatic and he's wrong as often as he's right. I'd say Nader's organization, Public Citizen is a better source of economic guidance. They've been around for a long time, and have done more for real Americans over the years than probably any other institution.

Back to the fart jokes.

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[Sheeplovr]

Id rather be in Reces

number 333 its the way to be
http://members.hometown.aol.com/_ht_a/walrus701/images/breadsig.jpg
POWER AND CHAOS

[dicAMan]

we are in normal bussiness cycle


Fact: A cat will always blink when hit on the head with a hammer. Thats a fact.

[Sheeplovr]

we are in normal bussiness cycle



Every 28 days right

number 333 its the way to be
http://members.hometown.aol.com/_ht_a/walrus701/images/breadsig.jpg
POWER AND CHAOS

[wilee]

Yerdaddy is right. I think it was mentioned in another thread somewhere where a CEO can have a company declare bankruptcy while he's holding the reins, and he'll still get his multi-million $$ severance. While the econonmy is part spin and part reality, the sad truth is most employees wind up in the reality end of the pool. Whether the company is laying people off because they NEED to or WANT to, WE are the ones who are GETTING LAID OFF, and this does translate to us being more skeptical of our security in our jobs, and less likely to spend money on "non-essentials" which can translate to certain other companies becoming more financially strapped.

What it boils down to, is for wrong or right, when you get laid off, you will realize what you can and can't spend money on while on unemployment. You're more likely to go for rent and food than beer and movies.

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[Yerdaddy]

Sheeplovr doesn't have to worry about the economy. He'll never go hungry cuz he's got breadhead.

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