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angrymissy
06-17-2002, 06:13 AM
This is going to get very long and complicated - that's the only way I can explain it, so if you don't care, don't read. But I would really appreciate everyone's advice.

I have an uncle named Jeff. He's 45, abusive and has not had a job for as long as I can remember. He has had a serious drug problem (heroin, cocaine, crack) for over 20 years. He also shows signs of having psychosis and hardcore obsessive compulsive disorder. He lives in a dream world where EVERYTHING he says is right. He's been arrested many times. He stole $10,000 from his brother 10 years ago. He stole all of my aunt's jewelry. All this time he's been living with my grandfather and grandmother. I lived there for a year when i was a teenager and he tried to attack me physically twice. He's gone after everyone in my family at one point. My grandmother enables him and says he's sick. He has brainwashed my grandmother over the past 10 years. She believes everything he says, and drives him down to the city to get "methadone" (I doubt its methadone, because he's been getting it for over 10 years) and buys him a six pack of beer EVERY MORNING. He turned my grandmother totally against my grandfather (a WWII Veteran who would do anything for his family). That's the background on my uncle.

Well, my grandparents recently bought the house they were renting for 20 years and soon found out they couldn't keep up with the mortgage and the taxes. They had to move out last weekend. It was rough on everyone. My aunt has a beautiful rental house upstate, and offered it to my grandparents for free. My grandfather is up there now, enjoying the fresh air and nice quiet retirement. But my grandmother wouldn't go. She got a 1-bedroom apartment with Jeff (the uncle). We were helping them move, and I went to put her boxes in the bedroom - when Jeff told me "NO that's my room put the boxes in the living room, that's where grandma is staying". He's making my grandmother (72 years old) sleep on the couch. It's totally sick. My grandmother told my cousin she'd like to move upstate and write a book, but can't because she won't leave Jeff. On Friday, Jeff attacked my uncle, threw a wheelbarrow at him, and punched his new truck so hard that he left a dent in it. My cousin told me that Jeff used to beat him in his room (when my cousin lived there), and that when my cousin was 14, Jeff would make him drive him to the city to pick up dope. My cousin is a pretty tough kid, but is terrified of Jeff. My grandfather is upset that my grandmother wouldn't go upstate with him, and is scared that Jeff is going to hurt her. The man is out of control. When I was 15 he threatened to kill me and chased me down the street with a bat.

The bottom line is, everyone in my family has ignored this. My cousin, sister, uncle and I want to act on it. At first ****** decided against that. Then we were going to try and get him arrested, but we think my grandmother will just spend all her money to get him out of jail. Then once he was out, he'd probably come after us.

My cousin and I have decided the best thing to do would be to try to have him committed. He's obviously insane, and it's compounded by his long-term drug addiction. We're afraid that he's going to put my grandmother in a dangerous situation and/or hurt her physically. I know that to be institutionalized, you have to prove that the person is a danger to himself or someone else. Can anyone help me figure out where to go from here? My cousin and I were going to go meet with someone at the hospital to discuss it, but we don't know where to start. My grandmother would try her best to not have him committed, but I have 5 people who can vouch that he's a danger. What do we need to do? This is literally tearing my family apart, and I need to do something soon. It broke my heart to see my grandfather alone in the new house (my aunt lives 5 minutes away from him now though so he'll be ok) I'd appreciate any feedback from anyone who managed to read this far :)


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Garfield
06-17-2002, 06:29 AM
He lives in a dream world where EVERYTHING he says is right.
this is true for a lot of middle aged people
the fact that he does drugs and is abusive is more than enough cause for you to get him away from grandma. And what does gramps have to say about this, he just lets it continue? If he loves his wife he should protect her. It is up to you and your cousins to get this guy some help and get grandma to safety.
Good luck and godspeed.

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A.J.
06-17-2002, 06:36 AM
Missy,

Your story sounds VERY similar to a situation in my own family (thankfully it's not as bad). Still, I'm sorry it's happening and I can empathize with you.

I'm not sure exactly what can be done. Personally, I'd have been in favor of your cousin's suggestion (he wanted him dead). But to figure out a solution, you need to address the problem, which is:

My grandmother enables him and says he's sick.


In the case of MY family this is why my uncle has gotten away with shit for so long. It sounds like YOUR uncle is using a simiar tactic: by having your grandmother as an "ally" nobody else in the family will do or say anything bad about him to make her upset. And until your grandmother stops being an enabler (probably because she refuses to admit she failed as a parent) this will continue with no end in sight.

Again, I empathize with you and hope some sort of resolution can be worked out. My suggestion would be to have your relatives all sit down with your grandmother and convince her that is for the best to kick your uncle the hell out of her house; that it's time for a little tough love.

Good luck to you and your family. :)

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 6-17-02 @ 10:47 AM

fatty
06-17-2002, 06:58 AM
first off i'm no expert, i'm just trying to help a friend.

that said, i think having someone committed is really hard work. he sounds like more of an abusive asshole than a crazy person, and getting him locked up is probably you're best bet.

i say go to the police. it's good that you're not alone in this and you have some family to back this up. just do it together and remember that it is what has to be done.

good luck, i'm sure in the end it will be all worth it.


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angrymissy
06-17-2002, 07:15 AM
My suggestion would be to have your relatives all sit down with your grandmother and convince her that is for the best to kick your uncle the hell out of her house: that it's time for a little tough love.

My cousin, uncle and I have all tried this many times, and she flips out and wont talk to us for weeks. Unfortunately, he's worn her down over the years to the point where he's totally warped her mind. It's sick. My cousin is scared to call the police becuase he thinks that my grandmother will bail him out right away and then Jeff will come after him.

*
thanks for the kind words everyone - i'm really going through a rough time over this, I'm very close with my grandfather and it kills me to see him upset. He's too old and too sick to do anything about the situation anymore so us younger grandchildren are going to do whatever it takes

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This message was edited by angrymissy on 6-19-02 @ 12:57 AM

A.J.
06-17-2002, 07:25 AM
I'm sorry Missy. This really hits home for me -- it sounds SO familiar.

I've also thought about planting large amounts of drugs in his room, then calling the police as a "concerned neighbor" who says the new guy in the neighborhood is dealing to the local kids.


The problem with that is that your grandmother could get busted to since it's her place (correct?).

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angrymissy
06-17-2002, 07:33 AM
The problem with that is that your grandmother could get busted to since it's her place (correct?).

We were also worried about that. Does anyone know if thats the case? I f my grandmother would also get in trouble if he was arrested for drugs in an apartment she was renting under her own name? Or worried that she might say it was hers or anything to protect him. I'm going over to their new apartment tonight with my sister to see the situation over there (I haven't yet, I was helping my grandfather get settled all weekend). It's to the point where my cousin told me not to go over there by myself becuase he's worried I might get hurt.

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angrymissy
06-17-2002, 07:33 AM
sorry double post

This message was edited by angrymissy on 6-17-02 @ 11:53 AM

Coco
06-17-2002, 07:34 AM
I am sorry you and your family are going through this.

This is a complicated situation as there are many parties involved here.

I would contact my local mental health agency or hospital. They have counsellors there that often times can do "interventions" and come down into the house and speak to the people involved.

I wish you and your family the best. My family went through something similar years ago.

______________________

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TheGameHHH
06-17-2002, 12:53 PM
Missy, there's not much I can say right now, but please IM me. I would love to talk to you about this if you feel like discussing it with me.. <P>

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Arienette
06-17-2002, 03:42 PM
wow, missy, i'm sorry that you have to deal with all of that... it's awful. i realy don't know much about this, or know what to suggest, but the committment idea seems like a good one to me. i wish you luck - i really hope everything works out. and if you ever want to talk or anything... :)

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EffMeBoobs
06-17-2002, 03:48 PM
Missy, I'm so sorry you are going through all this mess. I know in the yellow pages in the front section you can call one of those mental health hotlines or abuse hotlines and go from there. If you have 5 people, especially family members who can vouch for his wrongdoings and abuse and attempts to kill a person, I'd say you have a valid case to get him committed.

If you go to the police, I don't think you'll get as far. Yeah, you could get him locked up for drugs but he'll get out after a while and who knows what he'll do. You can't get him locked up for a LONG time because he hasn't done anything REALLY serious. Also the cops need substantial proof before they act on anything. No offense to cops out there, but sometimes I think they're are useless when it comes to these situations because they are coming into a situation of who to believe and who's saying shit. Obviously Jeff will act like an innocent angel and your grandmother will vouch that nonsense to protect him.

So I think your first step is to look in the front of the phone directory and dial some mental health/abuse hotlines. Also I'm sure Horde King can give some suggestions if you email him.

Good luck Missy and if you need any help or support let me know.

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HordeKing1
06-17-2002, 03:53 PM
AMB - You certainly face a difficult situation.

Unfortunately, physcial abuse, unemployment and drug abuse are most likely not sufficient grounds for involuntary commitment in a psychiatric facility. Recently, the Supreme Court, made it even harder to do this. Living in a "dream world" where he is always right is not indicative of psychosis.

However, assault, abuse, drug use, phsycial intimidation, and destruction of property, not to mention death threats are all crimes. I understand that your grandmother will not make such a claim. But he has attacked almost everyone in the family and (if within the statute of limitations) can file charges against him. Since he's been arrested before, you're more likely to get him arrested again.

You're absolutely correct that your grandmother enables him. Why do you suppose she does this, especially since he apparantly treats her like crap? Have you tried an intervention with her and all other family members (except for your uncle of course).

EDIT - The purpose of this intervention would be to show your grandmother that she has a very skewed perception of your uncle and that not just one or two people, but the whole family feels the same.




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This message was edited by HordeKing1 on 6-17-02 @ 11:44 PM

sexy bastard
06-17-2002, 10:47 PM
number one i am sorry yo uare going thru this,
it is very sad to see this happen and i can only hope for the best, I really dont knowwhatto say at this tim ebut i am sorry your going thru this

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angrymissy
06-18-2002, 05:59 AM
I failed to also mention that Jeff had been institutionalized in the past for severe OCD, paranoia, and I believe for some time he was taking lithium for bi-polar disorder - so he DOES have a history.

and yes - the problem with having him arrested is, he could be out on bail VERY quickly and I'm sure would try to retailiate. He's been arrested numerous times and always gets out. He even punched a cop in the face and didn't do any time for it. I'm going to talk to mental health professionals (I have an appointment with my shrink this afternoon and am hoping he can give me some options) and the police, with my cousin. The whole situation is totally messed up :(

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A.J.
06-18-2002, 06:04 AM
I'm going to talk to mental health professionals (I have an appointment with my shrink this afternoon and am hoping he can give me some options) and the police, with my cousin. The whole situation is totally messed up


Good luck missy -- I hope an answer can be found and things can be worked out. :)

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Hawiian shirt craig
06-18-2002, 10:40 AM
if you have him arrested, odds are he wont make
bail.... he sounds like a serious flight risk, and a risk
to his family. the other thing is, if hes been doing
coke, crack and heroin for all that time, hes probly
hinging on death. if not, bring him to the softball
game. let see, 30+ drunk guys with bats, and him...
sounds like a party to me!!! i know hes your uncle,
but his ass needs some major kicking. i dont know
how it works in everyone else's family, but in mine i
had an ucle tried to pull this shit. he was very
quickly standing in front of my grandmothers house,
in the yard getting beaten to shit by his nephews
and brothers. then he went to jail, then the
hospital, then we had a lovely christmas with him.
sound good?

i know you love your grandparents, but you have to
think about you. shes 72, odds are she wont
change... neither will he. i bet she out lives him
though. so do what you can to make gramma
happy and just try to distance yourself from it, or
you will be dragged right in. your grandma needs
to want this to end, not just everyone
e

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HordeKing1
06-18-2002, 03:43 PM
AMB if you don't mind could you tell us what suggestions your shrink made?

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angrymissy
06-18-2002, 08:46 PM
Well a shitload happened.

Jeff freaked out tonight after my other uncle confronted him. My uncle called the police and my grandmother went to her sisters house down the street. They took him to a psych ward in town - where THEY LET HIM GO after an hour becuase he went voluntarily. He went straight to where my grandmother was and made her take him home. My aunt called me in tears and said she didn't know what to do and that she was scared of what he was capable of. She told us to stay away from him and lock our windows and doors because she thinks he might come after one of us. I went and picked up my cousin. We called my grandmothers house and Jeff immediately picked up the phone and was very agitated. My granmother got on and said im ok why are you calling. my cousin said "are you ok" and she said "who what where". Jeff was on the other line listening. My aunt has told me that he had phone lines installed in EVERY room of the house including the bathroom. We didn't know what to do and were scared to go over there and see what was going on, so we went to the police. The police were NO HELP. They said if an actual crime was not being committed - they couldn't go over there. We told them the whole story and said he was dangerous and we feared for my grandmothers safety. They basically just said they can't do anything and to call them if he does anything "illegal". I am shaking. I am at my wits fucking end and I don't know how to handle this situation anymore. Tommorrow I'm calling social services - thats what the cops told us to do. I really don't think that will get us anywhere - becuase he is ALWAYS there next to my grandmother and she doesn't want to admit anything and doesn't like people poking around in our families business. I guess I'll try to call the major psych hospital tommorrow and see what my options are. No one except me and my cousin are willing to do anything else about it - as sad as it sounds, everyone else in my family just doesn't give a shit anymore. I'm at the point where I'll go over there and provoke him into hitting me so he'll get arrested and the situation will be resolved.

HK - my shrink advised me to talk to a psych hospital and see what our options are with regards to getting him committed.

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HordeKing1
06-18-2002, 10:01 PM
I've never had to have someone committed involuntarily. I don't even know the procedure for it.

However, from a legal standpoint it is not an easy thing to do.

Don't despair if you find that it can't be done. Of primary importance is making sure your grandmother is ok and remains ok. Social services may be able to help in this regard especially if there's any hint of abuse on his part.

I hope to catch you on AIM today.

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Hawiian shirt craig
06-19-2002, 05:15 PM
thats it, i have a pair of steel toed boots with this
guy's name on them. i dont know you missy, but
jesus christ shes a 72 year old woman.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR if there is anything any one
of us can do to help (ie a cop etc etc etc) let us
know ASAP. i'm sure in 7000+ members there is a
cop in your town, or a social worker or
something!!!

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THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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angrymissy
08-07-2002, 09:14 AM
well, I thought due to recent events I would give an update to this story.

My uncle went into detox for a week and was diagnosed as bi-polar and OCD. They put him on some heavy duty medication, but he was still treating my grandmother like shit. My grandmother said he would see spiders all over his room that werent there and he become obssessed with killing them.

Well, my grandmother decided to come upstate with me to visit grandpa for the weekend. I think she was really looking forward to a break from my uncle. We were up there for a day, then we get a call from my uncle saying he's very sick and throwing up blood. My grandmother called my other uncle to have him go check on him. Well, my other uncle had to take him to the ER becuase when he got there the apartment was covered in blood, Jeffrey's car was missing and he was incoherent. He said in the Waiting room of the ER there was blood pouring out of Jeffrey's mouth. I drove my grandmother back downstate at 1AM in the morning last Saturday. No one has figured out what happened that night. I think its wierd that they couldn't find his car, but he was in the apartment. I also think he may have done this to himself to get my grandmother to come home (he's THAT reliant upon her)

Jeffrey is now in the ICU unit at my local hospital. Last I heard they still had not been able to figure out what was wrong with him, but apparently he lost a lot of blood and is on oxygen with ivs and sedation.

I don't know what to feel about this situation. I hate my uncle and I wished him dead in this very thread, but I don't know what to think/feel. I think I SHOULD feel bad, but I don't know. I feel bad for the situation he put my family in. I feel bad that he LET himself get so far gone, but I think he did it to himself.

Just rambling and an update. As of know I still dont know anything except he's in the ICU

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This message was edited by angrymissy on 8-7-02 @ 1:20 PM

Arienette
08-07-2002, 10:53 AM
I don't know what to feel about this situation. I hate my uncle and I wished him dead in this very thread, but I don't know what to think/feel. I think I SHOULD feel bad, but I don't know. I feel bad for the situation he put my family in. I feel bad that he LET himself get so far gone, but I think he did it to himself.missy, i can understand what you're saying, but really, i dont think you should feel badly about the way you feel toward this whole situation. first off, if he DID do it to himself, like you think, i would imagine you'd be really mad and not feel badly so much. and, even if he didnt, after everything he's put you and your family through, i can see where you really wouldnt feel too badly. you're a good person, so obviously you're going to feel conflicted about not really being all broken up when something bad happens. i think you're doing the right thing by being there for your grandmother and the family. i hope everything works out as well as it can

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HordeKing1
08-08-2002, 04:50 PM
AMB - You have reason to be really pissed, furious etc at your uncle and to wish him dead. However, I understand why you're feeling conflicted about this as well. You have no requirement to feel either good or bad, although there's certainly just cause for you to feel terrible resentment at the very least.

From the history it sounds like your uncle has some really major medical problems. His car may have been stolen or he may have used it to buy drugs. He may have used the episode as a means of getting your grandmother back.

Previously you wrote about how your grandmother didn't see any bad in him. Apparantly that's changed, which of course is a good thing.

"Seeing spiders" or visual hallucinations would ordinarily be indicative of some form of psychosis, but I believe that many drug addicts report spiders or other insects while detoxifying.


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ToddEVF
08-16-2002, 07:02 PM
I am so sorry to hear what your family and you are going through. And what still gets me is the Volintary commited part. I was volintariry committed, and was kept for 8 days. You really have to find a way to get your grandmother away from him. He will bring her down along with him. he sounds really ill. and someone can be committed with just cause. And if he is as bad as you say, he could be committed untill he is seen fit to be back in society. once again, i am sorry for you and your families situation. And i hope this gets straightened out, and everything gets better from this point.

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Hawiian shirt craig
08-16-2002, 07:47 PM
pull the mother fucking plug.......


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HordeKing1
08-18-2002, 06:15 PM
TODDEF - I'm a little confused by your post. You said you were voluntarily committed, but you also said you were "kept" for 8 days. Was that on a voluntary or involuntary basis? What necessitated your hospitilization?

From a legal perspective, involuntary committments are very very difficult to obtain. Recent SC decisions have made it even more difficult. It's supposed to prevent abuse of power by the courts, the cops and the therapists.

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angrymissy
08-19-2002, 07:14 AM
I was also voluntarily admitted to an institution when I was 16. I decided I wanted to leave, but they said they had to keep me for 3 days before I could (Unless I got a court order, which would have taken longer anyway)

I think if you're under 18, they can keep you for a while even if you're committed voluntarily

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DarkHippie
08-19-2002, 08:57 AM
i was in and out of hospitals when I was a teenager, all voluntary. when you want to leave, they put you on "72 hours notice" where they decide if you are a threat to yourself or others. if you are, they will get a court order to keep you.

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Cybersoldier
08-19-2002, 10:17 AM
If the indivudual in question has both drug and mental problem you might need to be locked up in some sort of mental hopsital until cured. From some of the thing you said he might have a serious personality disorder. And combined with the drug only makes it worst, my advice is just based on what you said and opinion.

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HordeKing1
08-19-2002, 08:30 PM
HIPPIE - That's interesting about the 72 hour watch upon requesting to leave after being voluntarily committed.

It seems therefore that it's much easier to keep someone in then to get them committed (involuntarily) in the first place. My favorite saying as a lawyer was "the law is an ass." It still holds true.

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