Watch the Catholic Church Die.

[Death Metal Moe]

This is SUCH CRAP! The Catholics have been shuffeling CRIMINALS around from church to church, and now that kid touching is out, they STILL woun't do anything about it!

The latest out of these new meetings is that all church officials agree that preists should be removed from their posts if they do something illegal, but NOT thrown out of the preisthood!

And they'll NEVER agree to kick perverts out, and report it to the police, like they SHOULD!

So in the wake of all this, I heard a report on the TV that attendance is down in church due to this scandal, ESPECIALLY among young people. I guess mostly Young Boys. Can you blame them?

And I personally see this being the undoing of the Church. When you can't trust these people anymore, you're gonna stop giving them $$, and start leaving. You may not stop being a Christian, like you should, but you're probably not going back to that church.

So what do you think about this? Will current Catholics on the board STILL trust their preists like they did, and continue to give this "Men's Club" of Kid Touchers money? Will this shake your faith? Will you just sheep it on over to another faith?

This is why I gave up on ALL religion a long time ago.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[A.J.]

The kid touching is only part of the problem. The Church needs to enter the 21st century. Let priests marry, let women be priests, stop excommunicating people for divorce, allow birth control.

<IMG SRC="http://norraccm.freeservers.com/images/rnf_ajindc_01.jpg"><br> ® Made By Christy ¯

[Death Metal Moe]

Very good and valid points, AJ. We could fill another messageboard with the problems in Religion. I was just trying to pinpoint this latest problem. BUt hey, make it open season on the church!

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[fatty]

So what do you think about this? Will current Catholics on the board STILL trust their preists like they did, and continue to give this "Men's Club" of Kid Touchers money?


yes they will. the catholic church is the greatest group of brainwashers of all time, it will take a lot more than this before they are brought down.

to paraphrase george carlin, once you get people believing in an invisible man who watches everything you do and will send you to hell if you betray him, but he loves you. you can get them to believe anything.

<IMG SRC=http://wnew.com/-images/dandm_sm.jpg>
Give us AIDS, please!

[Death Metal Moe]

FATTY RULES!

I'm gonna recriut you for my "board Clique" gang!
We can make fun of Christians, and gang up on board members for no reason!

But seriously, You're probably right. These people won't know what to do without their church. God Forbid they think for themselves for a few hours.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

i [heart in a platonic way] fatty and njdmmoe. They speak the truth.



<IMG SRC="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vitamin.d/referencepix/fuzzybuttsig.jpg">

What you feel is what you are
And what you are is beautiful

[Death Metal Moe]

Thank you Alice.

And will Moe respond to EVERY new response to his thread? He has to sleep sometime! Stay tuned to find out!

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[Lulu]

moe and fatty, bravo! i could agree with you guys more. they force this shit down your throat until you are forced to tap out and give up your free will for something that none ever saw.

the romans had the right idea, i say we all prosecute and burn christians at the stake. or even better yet, we build another coliseum and fill it with wild, dangerous animals and drop christians in there and watch them die and suffer for our own enjoyment.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/lulu.jpg>
big thanks to winterembers and tazz, i love you guys!
proud coven member and mistress of the dead

[Rev]

Down with Catholics!!!
Praise to Jehovahs Witness.








j/k!
I hate all organized religion.
It's the only example of "peer pressure" im actually willing to stomach.

xoxoxo,
Rev

<IMG SRC="http://spookyguy.freeservers.com/images/RevDefSigPic.gif">

This message was edited by Rev on 6-18-02 @ 3:16 AM

[nellie]

the romans had the right idea, i say we all prosecute and burn christians at the stake. or even better yet, we build another coliseum and fill it with wild, dangerous animals and drop christians in there and watch them die and suffer for our own enjoyment.

do i smell a coven event? :)

seriously, if you take a good look at the "traditions" of christian religions they will have a basis of some sort from a pagan religion.....

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[Jackie Sloan]

The sooner the better. A person can be good without Kid touchers asking for and getting money. Talk about outdated paternalistic bullshit! I stopped going to church as soon as my parents stopped grounding me for not going, that was 25 years ago!

<img src="http://norraccm.freeservers.com/images/rnf_jackiesloan_01.gif"><br>® Made By Christy ¯
Mucho Gracias, tu eres una Reina!
My baby fits me like flesh tuxedo...I like to sink her with my pink torpedo yeah!

[DarkHippie]

this is the problem i have with any organized religion: whose religion is it? No two people can see something from the exact same POV, yet millions of people are trained to pray the same way? it seems unnatural to me.

Take my advice: find your own road, but don't let anyone else follow it. "Blaze a trail, bury your tracks"

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<a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Transcendental Blues: a journal</a>

[Pootertoot]

Man, this board has changed. Used to be that a thread like this would erupt into a fullfledged riot. The days of the Rooster/Pooter debate have gone the way of the Babies. ::sniffle::

As a former Catholic, it's obvious to all but catholics that their faith is misplaced. They've placed more faith in their institution than the belief system the institution preaches. Look at the Xian god, you'll find it's near ludicrous to think he would value a certain group of people over others to preach his word, or would value a certain building better than all others to worship in. Or any FORM of worship over any other (hey, he even loved the occasional ritual sacrifice way back when). An omnipotent, omniscient being needing to be WORSHIPPED is ludicrous, but let's just give them that one for shits and giggles.

But ask your local neighborhood priest, and church is the most important place to be each week, in fact, if you don't go to church, well, I hope you've got sunblock, because hell's kinda toasty. It's a business, and like any business, they have to convince the consumer that their product is absolutely necessary, and they do that well.

If you generalized the details of it, this is the Church's Enron. They did something horribly wrong to the people that support them the most, then they refuse to admit or apologize until absolutely, positively backed into the corner, and even then the people who should be punished aren't, and the people who were screwed continue to be screwed.

But I digress. The Catholic Church has a long way before it topples, and, trust me, they ain't the worst in the lot.

I'm in atheist, but I'm not going to turn this into a "God/No God" debate. It doesn't belong here. All I'm saying is that worship, faith, it's a personal thing. It's a personal belief system that is YOURS. Do not let others dictate/mandate/whatever your own beliefs. Sure, you can go to them when in a quandry, but when you're paying them weekly to spout some rhetoric at you that you could certainly get for free by cracking a bible and talking to your friend about it, it's gone too far. They are not holier than thou. They're (usually) more than nice people who have been brainwashed into misplacing their efforts and faith.

And then there's the guys who got in, are getting their cars and meals on the parishoners' (and the mafia, where applicable) dime, and are STILL getting laid, regardless of what they tell you. And believe me, there's a LOT of those ones. I know, I trained for the priesthood, you didn't. So Nyah.

::steps off soapbox::

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Take a Chance, Take a Chance

[A.J.]

And then there's the guys who got in, are getting their cars and meals on the parishoners' (and the mafia, where applicable) dime, and are STILL getting laid, regardless of what they tell you. And believe me, there's a LOT of those ones.


It was really depressing to find out that two of the priests at our church in my hometown had better luck with the ladies than I did: one was having an affair for years (it was an open secret) and another one met a woman in the parish and left the priesthood so he could marry her.

<IMG SRC="http://norraccm.freeservers.com/images/rnf_ajindc_01.jpg"><br> ® Made By Christy ¯

[Jobberific]

I've never believed in god, so I don't claim to understand faith. My question is this. Why does the US government allow the catholic church to decide what will be done to these criminals? The church is not a sovreign(sp?) nation onto itself that can make up its own laws. They reside on our soil and must abide by our laws, ad last time I checked, fucking children was a crime.
Trust me, if this was the Scientoligists, the FBI would be kicking down the doors to there temples or book stores or whatever the hell those morons have.

AJW...All Jobber Wrestling...All jobbers, all the time.

[legroommusic]

I think the catholic church ought to merge with NAMBLA.

What's going on TV? I haven't watched anything for a while.

[fatty]

My question is this. Why does the US government allow the catholic church to decide what will be done to these criminals?


because the church is more powerful than the government when becoming president you must say 'So help me God', pledging allegience to your real master.

<IMG SRC=http://wnew.com/-images/dandm_sm.jpg>
Give us AIDS, please!

[A.J.]

because the church is more powerful than the government when becoming president you must say 'So help me God', pledging allegience to your real master.


Actually you don't have to. The Oath of Office is in the Constitution and it does not contain that line. George Washington added it on his own and succeeding Presidents have repeated it out of respect and tradition.

<IMG SRC="http://norraccm.freeservers.com/images/rnf_ajindc_01.jpg"><br> A® Made By Christy A¯

This message was edited by AJinDC on 6-18-02 @ 3:29 PM

[Doogie]

build another coliseum and fill it with wild, dangerous animals and drop christians in there and watch them die and suffer for our own enjoyment.


Better hope Mace Windu doesnt show up...
Seriously though, let us not forget this is the religion that brought us the Spanish Inquisition!!! These mother f***ers have killed more people than any other religious group in history.

What I used to love was in the eigth grade the priest would give us the sex talk. I mean talk about the blind leading the blind, give me a break. For a religion that is soooooo uptight about sex and sex talk they sure have a lot of people who spend a lot of time who are deviants. Yet if I wanna buy a Playboy or Penthouse, I am branded a "pervert" by these same bastards.

Europe was in the DARK FUCKING AGES, as a result of the church holding back learning. The Renaissance came about as people moved away from religious teaching and moved more to science. Galileo Gailiee is excommunicated for saying that the Earth is not the center of the universe, and was given a pardon 300 years later!!!!! Fuck the church, fuck religion...go learn something people. Educate yourself. That is the key to understanding the world. Not something some 'holy figure' should tell you to understand...

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"I know you want it, I read Mike Tyson's book!!!"-thanks to Aggie for the quote

[The Bad-Ass Messiah]

The Church exist for one purpose: To control your mind and your perspective on life. Christianity is a wealth and power strucutre, and it conquered most of this world long ago. The fact that most people don't understand that yet is proof of how effectively it conquered human society. This talk about a 'Sexual Scandal.' You really think that the church cares about what the rest of the world is doing? Nevermind just America. If the church doesn't doesn't like something America is doing, it will simply wait it out until America disappears. It will still be around. And it has done it before. 2000 years. The church has been around for over 2000 years. Longer than ANY nation or empire EVER. It conquered this world long ago, and it was smart. It didn't need to use chains or guns.. because the church enslaved your mind. 2000 years and still going strong. Sexual Scandal, please. The rulers of the world need not be concerned. If an alien sociologist came to this planet it would see a world enslaved by the christian religion. The pope is the most powerful man on Earth. Because he controls the minds of the poeple that control your life.
----------------------------

Why Do I Say It?
'Cause I Got To Speak The Truth, Man

[Lulu]

2000 years of human error...

they are like used car salesmen, they will do anything to sell their product. don't buy into it. christians are just lying, stealing bastards. they stole their religion from the greeks, romans, other pagan religions, then killed of those religions to become a religious monopoly.

i say fuck em. who needs them anymore. they never did much good, they only interfered with our lives.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/lulu.jpg>
big thanks to winterembers and tazz, i love you guys!
proud coven member and mistress of the dead

[JustinR]

If anyone needs proof that the church is corrupt, look no further than my school. St. Johns!

I have a friend who is so absorbed in the church it made her very arkward in public, she's "owned" by her parents (she's 21), and never has really had a boyfriend. I feel very very sorry for her.

She tells me about her "vital" meetings and stuff on campus. She is suckered in. Its worse for all of us to be forced to take theology. Its even worse if you rely on such a religion as a crutch.

Now dont get me wrong. I love god. But i dont need to read X amounts of bibles or go to "retreats". I'm my own man and i dont need to have the church tell me what the fuck to do!

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[Lulu]

i remember when i really started to hate christians and what most of them stood for. it was a few days after september 11. i was in religion class, and i asked my teacher what she thought we should do and her comments about some preacher who said that sinners and pagans caused the horrible happenings of 9/11. she said that she agreed with him and that they died for god. that they all would go to heaven. that america is a sinful nation and needs religion in schools and more public prayer.

i hated her before that, but this just added more fuel to the fire, thus making it into the hateful inferno that it is today.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/lulu.jpg>
big thanks to winterembers and tazz, i love you guys!
proud coven member and mistress of the dead

[ADF]

I've always considered religion a crutch.. something to make yourself feel better about your insignificant place in the universe. Hey, it works for some and I don't begrudge them that. It would be nice if people weren't wacky and tried to push their belief system on others, but that's never going to happen. Religion's really an outdated concept.. a hanger-on from the days when people didn't know any better. Still, millennia of tradition is hard to break. I just do my own thing (which is no thing) and let others be.

<img src= http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/fuzzybuttsig.jpg>

[tomhitch]

Er, this is off topic a bit, but something has puzzeled me. I'm new to the board, but I've been listening to Ron and Fez off and on for a while. What ever did happen to the "babies". At one point they were all the rage on the show, and had their own web page. Then I was away for a while and when I started listening again, they're gone, replaced by Sweet Melissa and the "Girls of Ron and Fez". Anyone care to enlighten me with this
missing bit of Radio History?

Thanks,

Tom

[A.J.]

If anyone needs proof that the church is corrupt, look no further than my school. St. Johns!


I went to THE Catholic University of America -- we had to take religion classes. Ironically, those classes made me become LESS religious.

<IMG SRC="http://norraccm.freeservers.com/images/rnf_ajindc_01.jpg"><br> ® Made By Christy ¯

[blakjeezis]

Before I get into this, let me say that Moe I'm right with you on this one. The church has completely mishandled this. It is absolutely disgusting to condone this behavior from priests, which is what they're doing. The thread, however, has strayed from that topic.

Every once in a while, one of these threads pops up on the board and everybody jumps on the bandwagon of church bashing. All the posters come on with the same line, 'The church is a brainwashing, hypocritical, evil, greedy, murdering institution that prays on the weak minded fools who need to feel secure no matter how foolish the ideas may be etc . . ." And, inevitably, someone invokes the Oh So Hilarious :cough cough: George Carlin and whatever his latest witty :cough cough: take on the subject is. Not that the church isn't all those things that I said above, but guess what? So are the huge giant media conglomerates that poison your mind with endless drivel on TV, radio and movie screens. And you still line up, money in hand, to worship at their altars. Why aren't you raging against them? So are the Democrats and Republicans, why do they still hold sway over the policies of our country? Here's the deal, church bashing is in vogue. People line up and are encouraged to mock the rituals of the church. "How does that wine transfigure into blood? How can a good God allow good non-Christians to hell?" and so on and so forth. Are these any more silly than the beliefs of the 'fringe' witchcrafty/magicK type religions. Aleister Crowley was said to climb hills and scream at the sky in order to make it rain. Some people think that if they carve certain 'arcane' symbols on candles and then burn them down mysterious and wonderful things will happen. Why not mock them en masse? Hell, I think that if I close my eyes and think hard enough, the pig I'm banging is actually Jenna Jameson. That don't make it any more real.

The point I'm trying to make in this rambling diatribe is this. No, the church ain't perfect, but not much in this world is. If you don't like the church, don't go. I don't. But it isn't all bad, it does do good as well. Bashing it is a fad, much akin to dating Ellen Degeneres. There are plenty of things in this world that are a legitimate threat to our freedom, liberty, and happiness. Bashing the church is easy. You wanna rage against something? Find out all you can about chlorine's and leads effect on the body, why they're present in our environment in dangerous levels and why our elected leaders, on both sides of the aisle, don't do anything to stop it. That's something to get fired up about.


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Arg-0 Eng-1 Whaddya got now ya cheatin' ass, coke head, Argentinian DOUCHEBAG. 'Hand of God' my ass!!!

[CovDiesel]

Watch the Catholic Church Die...

I know I haven't posted in a while and so my comments which are about to follow may fall on deaf ears, but since I see an overwhelming response to Sparticus here.... I am going to defend my religion.

Do I think that the priests were right in doing what they did? Obviously not. Do I think that the church was right for covering it up? Obviously not.

However, there are many things that many people do within any organization that do not stand for the group as a whole. The interesting thing to me is that everyone on this thread is making statements that show that attendence is down in church... actually, the youth of this country has grown in faith. The numbers are up from a decade ago and the numbers continue to climb even in the shadow of this horrible scandal.

Then there are the mentioning of the Church being a business... and while I know that it is, since I worked for one as a youth minister, there are many things that while operating as a business that the church does not do...

1) The church does not go door to door asking for money and converting people for the sole purpose of having a lined pocket.
...the church has enough money due to the volume of it's members... Businesses try to make money at any cost... not the Church's bag.

2) It's not about the mistakes.
... it's easy to say in my case because I haven't been molested... I haven't been involved. However, the basic bottom line is that as a Catholic, my faith in the church has nothing to do with the way the priests who molest children conduct themselves, or how they are repremanded. My belief in Catholicism stems from many facets of the religion that I agree with and believe in... I could get into and name each one, but that would be very long and wordy.
and..

3) God Forgives.
... belive or not... God forgives those who sinned. While those priests should be removed from ministry and placed into counseling and prisons, God forgives them... leaving anything this life can deal to them... meaningless in the end... which there actually is not even an end to begin with... ya follow?

So, the church is taking a hit right now. It's name is being thrown around the mud... but the bottom line is that the church will bounce back. The church will overpower the scandals. The church will survive because Jesus is more important and more powerful than any one person's mistakes.

I do not condone the actions, but I do forgive them for doing so.... I think they need help and so do the victims... we should be binding together, not falling away from each other.... and that is what Catholicism is about... Sharing life with one another... and using the Eucharist to give us the spiritual energy to be a witness of and to God... the best way we can.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/covpigs.jpg">

[Jobberific]

christians are just lying, stealing bastards.


ALL religions are lying, stealing bastards.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that the christians have a monopoly on those traits.

AJW...All Jobber Wrestling...All jobbers, all the time.

[Garfield]

I have a friend who is so absorbed in the church it made her very arkward in public, she's "owned" by her parents (she's 21), and never has really had a boyfriend. I feel very very sorry for her.

There are A LOOOOOT of people like that around my area. Very old fashioned catholic immigratnts who are terrified of modern society and become introverts. I feel sorry for these people because they have no idea exactly how evil the church is being about these incidents. It reminds me about how the church was so corrupt in the middle ages, the Pope was like the Godfather, it aint much different now. If a preist does wrong, slap him on the wrist and let him loose to wreak havoc on more families. This is really sad.

<IMG SRC="http://www.carisi.com/garfugly.gif">

[ShelleBink]

my parents, every weekend since i was born have gone to church, about a year ago my sis and i stopped going.

and then all this shit came out, and my parents STILL wonder why i dont go. i just dont believe what they do, and i dont think they'll ever accept that.

catholicism is just too old fashioned to still be around. granted, it may have had a purpose years ago, but now, in this society, there's really no point for it. but that's what i think...

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[Pootertoot]

Er, this is off topic a bit, but something has puzzeled me. I'm new to the board, but I've been listening to Ron and Fez off and on for a while. What ever did happen to the "babies". At one point they were all the rage on the show, and had their own web page. Then I was away for a while and when I started listening again, they're gone, replaced by Sweet Melissa and the "Girls of Ron and Fez". Anyone care to enlighten me with this
missing bit of Radio History?

Thanks,

Tom


Tom, repost this in "Member Orientation" and we'll gladly answer it for you.

If you ever have a question or topic that isn't related to the thread at hand, feel free to start a new topic by clicking the "New Topic" button.

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Take a Chance, Take a Chance
</center>

[The Bad-Ass Messiah]

BLAKJEEZIS:

A) I do, in fact, rage against the corporate media conglomerates.

B) I have been bashing the Christian church, or more accurately, exposing the fraud that is organized religion for over 10 years. My official start was 8th grade. I am now just about 25.

C) I have been actively bashing the church, or more correctly, debating and opposing all religious ideology where ever I find it long before it made it to the bandwagon. And the amount of hours Ive spent doing it over the past few years almost qualifies it as a part time Job.

D) Comparing the Christian Church to Corporate America? You show your ignorance. I dont mean that in a bad way, my friend, you sound intelligent. And we are all ill-informed on some things. But you compare Multi-National Corporations that exploit people for money and profit and, at most, influence our leaders and our purchasing decisions to a 2000 year old organization that has dedicated itself to enslaving the human race through thought control and the abandonment of all rational and creative thought. No Dice, Brother.

E) I happen to believe that if we could liberate the minds of most people from the locked down state of ignorance that religion has brought to us, most of those other problems would be solved shortly.

F) I dont know ANYTHING that threatens our freedom and happiness more than religion in its current state. Many issues may not appear to be religiously driven, but religion is the primary force that is shaping the life perspective of the most powerful individuals.

-----------------------------------

Why Do I Say It?
'Cause I Got To Speak The Truth, Man

This message was edited by The Bad-Ass Messiah on 6-19-02 @ 10:18 PM

[Captain Rooster]

Jesus Christ and the love ethic are the basis of faith in God; not belief in a human being in a black outfit.

The church is obviously in trouble and I have been troubled, and outraged by the recent lack of action taken by the church.

But the truth is - believers are the church, not priests. Believers in Christ need to demand justice for the victims of predators hiding behind the facade of being a holy man.

Change, dramatic change, is the only way the church can recover from this crisis.

Pooter, I do remember the days of debating ad nauseum over moral issues and their religious basis.

The fact is, in this case, there is little room for debate. The entire situation is appalling and disgusting.

I will refer to II TIM 2:3


Therefore, endure hardness a good soldier of Jesus Christ

If believers have true faith all will not be lost.

Amen


<CENTER><img src=http://www.ltrooster.homestead.com/files/ltr.gif>
</CENTER><BR>
<CENTER>Human Saw Mill
</CENTER>

[Death Metal Moe]

Well well well. My 1st topic that got starts on it! And I didn't even really mean for it to become an intellegent topic! I just HATE religion, and love to see kiddy touchers on the hot seat!

But CovDesiel is the ONLY Catholic out there who is going to defend his religion? Wow. That's exatly what I want in a topic! I want SOMEONE to disagree with me, and argure a little. Maybe discuss is a better term.

But hey, BIG Indepentent thought PROPS out to everyone who agrees with me! I'm filled with joy that the brain washing message of religion MAY be losing it's grip on society. We don't NEED it.

Now I feel like I should say this though. I grew up going to church, I was protestant. But they were all very nice people, who did mostly good things, they just complicated their lives with religion. And they didn't need to!

Now the church DOES good things! And I'd like to see that continue. I HATE Christianity, but I do believe in having people have the freedom to make their own mistakes. Because this is the USA, and we don't just force all our people into one religion, like a lot of Islamic countries.

Bottom line is:

you break law? Go to jail. Did bishops and other officials within the church know about this problem, and shuffle preists around? You're guilty too. And even MORE so, bacause you gave them MULTIPLE opportunities to touch kids! To HELL with you!


I hope you enjoyed my book! I KNOW I ALWAYS bitch at someone for typing too much, but I'm full of things to say about this.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com


This message was edited by njdmmoe on 6-19-02 @ 10:38 PM

[Death Metal Moe]

Oh, and I was connected to this scandal too. I went to DePaul Highschool in Wayne, NJ from 92-96. One year, there was this preist named Bradley who was transfered in for one year, and disappeared the next year. We all joked about what happened to him, and even the idea he WAS a kid toucher who was getting shuffled around.

Then, I picked up the local Record one day, and there it was! The local Bishop Rodimer named him in a public statement as a preist that had a record back in the 80's! What a bunch of CRAP!

Now I'm in NO WAY trying to say he EVER touched me. I never even talked to him, I don't think. I HATED that place, and got out quick! I didn't even want to go to my graduation, but my parents forced me to just so they could have pictures of it. I guess after paying for 4 years of school, they deserved it.

So there you go. And I can only imagine how horribly ruined the life of his victims are.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[Captain Rooster]

Moe, it is sad, and sometimes evil really looks like it has its grasp on our world.



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This message was edited by LTRooster on 6-19-02 @ 10:53 PM

[Se7en]

the romans had the right idea, i say we all prosecute and burn christians at the stake. or even better yet, we build another coliseum and fill it with wild, dangerous animals and drop christians in there and watch them die and suffer for our own enjoyment.

You, madame, are as bad as Hitler.

Well, maybe not, but your unbelievable intolerance is frightening.

Imagine if one of the Christians in here said, "Kill all the atheists!" We'd be the "religious zealot". You call for the death of millions (billions) and it's all a-okay.

I'm in atheist, but I'm not going to turn this into a "God/No God" debate. It doesn't belong here. All I'm saying is that worship, faith, it's a personal thing.

EVERYONE who reads or posts in this thread should follow the words of Pootertoot, since he's actually the most sensible / reasonable person who's made a comment here.

All this bashing of the Church and / or Christianity is misplaced (not in the sense of the kid-touching; that, obviously, is justified). It is the INSTITUTION of religion, i.e. the church in any form, that is the problem.

Religion itself is harmless. It's when someone takes it, twists it, and turns it into a sociological institution (which is what the church, Catholic or otherwise, has ALWAYS been), that problems arise.

I consider myself a Christian. I don't moralize people, I don't pass judgement upon them. I have my own faith, which I generally keep to myself. Bottom line, I don't bother anyone with what I believe when it comes to matters spiritual.

So I kinda get a little disconcerted when I see people calling for my death, since it's not justified.

Oh, and a shoutout to Rooster, Diesel and Black Jeezis too, for adding some good comments.

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WWFallon - a sig-pic-making jar of Human Clay

"Being a bastard WORKS."
--Spider Jerusalem

[Death Metal Moe]

I disagree with you Seven. You say that Religion itself is harmless. But it is religion ITSELF that is the worst thing of all. In it's own doctrine, each religion says that IT is the only way to salvation, and enlightenment. This naturally makes followers of a specific religion think they're right, and others are misguided fools. And that is the beginning of people imposing thier beliefs on others, and the beginning of religious NUTS doing ANYTHING to further their so called "RIGHT" position, no matter what. Get a big enough group of them together, and you get The Inquisition, and Al Queda. Very dangerous, misguided scum. And remember The Crusades? And those are just some of the largest examples. I KNOW a historian could quote 2 dozen examples off the top of his or her head, and hundreds with a little research.

Religion has kept us all apart from it's inception, and it is sad, indeed.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[NewYorkDragons80]

First of all, attendance at all churches have been down in recent months. After September 11th, attendance was through the roof, now it is almost exactly where it was in August. For this reason, attendance is down. CNN won't tell you this because their bigwigs delight in the persecution of religion.

AJ, I agree about letting priests marry and I'm kind of on the fence about women priests and birth control. But divorce is against the New Testament. You can't ask us to compromise the Bible.

Anyone who breaks the law should go to jail. There should be no special treatment. To quote the great Geoffrey Chaucer; "If Gold should rust, what will Iron do?"

The way I have observed the evolution of this thread, it is clear from the way you pat each other on the back for each shot you take at religion, you prove more and more that your atheism is a quasi-religion.

Se7en, I totally agree. They talk crap about us, but we are zealots if we ever dare challenge them.

Rooster, are you a Protestant?

We live in the present, we dream of the future and we learn eternal truths from the past.
-Chiang Kai-Shek

"Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father."
-Senator John McCain



This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 6-20-02 @ 1:36 AM

[Lulu]

You, madame, are as bad as Hitler.

Well, maybe not, but your unbelievable intolerance is frightening.
se7en, i respect your opinion, but intolerance is what we need right now. we were so tolerant with these priests, i don't know why, but we were. people knew about, yet they did nothing. it only got more people hurt, namely children. we can't let these perverts get away with this any longer just because they hide behind a god and pretend to be righteous.

and i think i have quite a way to go before i'm even relatively close to hitler in the badness department.

Imagine if one of the Christians in here said, "Kill all the atheists!" We'd be the "religious zealot". You call for the death of millions (billions) and it's all a-okay.geez, can't you people take a fuckin joke?? i'm a teenager. i know that nothing that i say will ever happen. just let me dream man, let me dream.

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This message was edited by Lulu on 6-20-02 @ 2:26 AM

[Pootertoot]

Rooster and Se7en! And Cov Deisel came back! Now it's starting to look like old times.

I will refer to II TIM 2:3


Therefore, endure hardness a good soldier of Jesus Christ



"Endure Hardness"? Is that what they tell the little boys bent over in the confessional?

EVERYONE who reads or posts in this thread should follow the words of Pootertoot, since he's actually the most sensible / reasonable person who's made a comment here.

That's pretty fucking scary.

The main problem with threads like this is that it either

A) Ends up ignoring the initial discussion in order to just discuss the faith/faithless issue

B) Ends up just bashing things with no real intellectual discourse.

You can try and deconstruct a belief system all you want. Hell, you should. Why the fuck should you believe in something you haven't fully thought out? But don't, and I repeat this, DON'T bash the believers.

If there's one thing I've said over and over on this board, it's this:

Respect the believer, not the belief.

For the first 18 years of my life, I went to church every sunday without fail. I went from Kindergarten all through High School in Catholic Schools. I thought priests were the holiest people around, etc., etc., etc.

Why? It's all I knew. I was raised that way. Was I any the worse for it? Maybe in small ways, like depriving myself of some things that would've otherwise made me happier, being less tolerant of other people or ideas, etc...but overall, I was a pretty good human being. Then I became an atheist. And you know what? Almost nothing changed. Sure, there was the whole intellectual revelation and such, but really, on a daily basis, my life was no different.

That's the point. If it wasn't for this discussion, we could go our entire lives without knowing each others' particular beliefs and still have a rockin' good time with each other. Why? Beliefs don't make the man, the man makes the man (except for a small minorities, the wacky fundies).

So shouting your hate for christians, the religious, gets you nowhere. You hate the minority. Those who will force their beliefs on you, those who are willing to suppress the freedom of others in order to make their agenda everyone else's, too. So this is the thread for you. You hate ORGANIZED religion. You hate the hierarchy, you hate the politicized bullshit, the taking the numinous and making it human, making it petty, making it dog eat dog.

I wholeheartedly agree that organized religion has done more harm than good over the course of history. The Crusades, The Inquisition, the Dark Ages have all been mentioned in this thread and the list goes far beyond that. Church may offer a sense of community, but so do countless other secular organizations that AREN'T selective about who they help and when. It's hard to defend an organization that turned a blind eye to the holocaust.

But all this is longwinded and unnecessary:

Respect the believer, not the belief.

And never stop questioning. You'll be happy you didn't. And then you'll be dead. But forget that last part until it happens.

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[Death Metal Moe]

no no. Atheism is not quasi-religion. It's freedom from religion, and it's beautiful. I enjoy it everyday.

But I will agree that bashing with no point is pretty cool, but makes you look foolish. So have a point.

And I respect no one on face value alone. You must earn my respect.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[DarkHippie]

funny, i thought agnosticism was freedom from religion. athieism is not believing in god, agnosticism is admitting that you have no clue what is or isn't out there.

don't mean to nit pick, but i am a big fan of agnosticism. in my mind, the first step to finding your own way is admitting that you start out lost, and that is what agnosticism is about

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[Captain Rooster]

Rooster, are you a Protestant?




No, I am Catholic. I just realize that the foundation of faith is a love of Christ, not hte love of an institution.

Pootertoot, sometimes you're a riot, other times you have no restraint.

I just find little humor in predators preying on innocent children. Too many people have been hurt by "leaders" who prey on children: teachers, Boy Scout leaders, priests, daycare workers.

Sad, friggin' sad.

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[Coco]

The Church will not die. And "the gates of hell will not prevail against it".

I love the Church for many reasons and there are reasons why I dislike it.

I think the Church is going through a metamorphasis now as it has been doing for the past 2000 years. I truly believe that 100 years from now, the Church will be different than it is today.

I am willing to also look at the many positive things the Church has done - the orphanages, hospitals, drug and alcohol treatment centers, Catholic Charities' organizations that have contributed to causes all over the world, schools, their spreading of the Gospel, etc.

These really bad priests will be taken care of and I guarantee that the Church in the future will go probably overboard to make sure this stuff never occurs again without severe disciplanary action.

I am just not willing to look at a handful of really awful priests and say that the entire Church should die. And it won't.





______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[Se7en]

se7en, i respect your opinion, but intolerance is what we need right now. we were so tolerant with these priests, i don't know why, but we were. people knew about, yet they did nothing. it only got more people hurt, namely children. we can't let these perverts get away with this any longer just because they hide behind a god and pretend to be righteous

See, now Lulu, you're clouding your comments with confusion. At least I'm confused.

If you mean we should be intolerant of the priests who committed these acts, and of the institution that has protected them, then yes, I agree with you. We should be intolerant of them. Not just for the obvious reasons of pedophilia and rape being wrong and illegal, but for the more personal (and in the long run, more damaging) transgression of a group / institution / individual betraying a sacred trust and distorting & perverting a religious faith that is supposed to teach love, understanding and brotherhood. We should ALL be outraged by the Church at this time.

However, what you did was call for the death of ALL Christians (even if it was a joke). You made no distinction between those you had a grievance with (i.e. Catholics) and the rest of us. Like us Protestants.

But let's be fair, there are many Catholics who are as disgusted by what's going on as you are. Who are angered and outraged by the Church's actions.

And realize that most often, the utter buffoons who claim to be representatives of the Christian faith (such as Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell, those who initially made the 9-11 comment you - and I - were disgusted with) do NOT reflect the opinion of many Christians. Probably most Christians. Those idiots are like the black sheep of the family we try to ignore, only they make too much noise.

It's so freaking bizarre for me to say it, but Pootertoot IS 100% correct. Respect the believers even if you don't respect the belief. Just because someone is of a religious faith (pick one, it doesn't have to be Christian or Catholic), it doesn't automatically mean they're moralizing holy rollers out to either sermonize or pass judgement upon you.

Oh, and just joking about the Hitler thing.

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WWFallon - a sig-pic-making jar of Human Clay

"Being a bastard WORKS."
--Spider Jerusalem

[Pootertoot]

Moe, there are varying levels of respect. I don't mean the "respect and admiration" kind of respect you have for a mentor or teacher, but the kind of respect you have for the average stranger on the train. If you accidentally elbow someone in the teeth while getting off a subway car, chances are you'll say "I'm sorry", regardless of the fact that, unbenownst to you, that person believes that they have to cut off their balls in order to get on the mothership behind Hale-Bopp.

So, yes, respect the believer, not the belief is a valid philosophy when taken at a general level. We all know Jerry Fallwell enough to know he's a jagoff that couldn't know death's sweet embrace soon enough, but that doesn't apply to ALL Xians. For the most part, they're just people.

Rooster, sorry, there's humor in everything, even if it's a priest sticking it to a young boy, you just gotta remove yourself from the situation:

What's the difference between a priest and acne?

Acne doesn't come on your face until you're 14.

Now, yes, child molesting priests are inhuman monsters who deserve to be stoned to death. But tell me that didn't make you chuckle, just a little? It's cringe funny...the whole taboo thing...without it, farts wouldn't be funny. Would you want a world without fart humor? I THINK NOT.

Any priest that has ever molested a child should be taken into custody, regardless of whether he's "removed from his post" or not. Anyone who aided in covering it up should also be prosecuted, without exception. These are beasts who run a corrupt system that must be taken down.

And it's been far too long since someone's taken a shot at the Pope. ;P

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[NewYorkDragons80]

If you want to blame select American Bishops and Priests, that is fine, but not this Pope. John Paul II has been one of the greatest Popes in the church's history. He is not to blame for the current crisis.

We live in the present, we dream of the future and we learn eternal truths from the past.
-Chiang Kai-Shek

"Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father."
-Senator John McCain

[Ryan the Great]

Religion is an impulse to explain. A natural impulse that everyone has and everyone grapples with. It's an impulse that, sadly and ironically, has been exploited to convince people to take actions that defy and demean that impulse. The exploiters are (fuck - not these guys again!) the ruling elite of nearly every society, in every era, and ours is no exception. It's not hard to understand the false sense of comfort and security of faith that religion provides. A lot of us have been throuh it and can understand how hard it can be to shake the grip of dogma. Religious dogma, which is a set of rules, is a tool used by people in power to keep other people powerless, and to coerce them into serving the interests of the powerful. History is flooded wih examples of religion used to defend and promote most of humanity's dumbest moves. Like genocide: the holocaust and the annihilation of the worlds' indigenous populations. Like war: from the beginnings of "civilization" to the Gulf War and beyond. Like prejudice: the continued subjugation of women in all the major religions. Like poverty: as a tool of capitalism, religion has taught the poor to accept injustice. Probably the worst effect religion has on us is its' ability to create divisions so remarkably deep that people will kill for them. Fuck, scratch at any major conflict in the world today and just beneath the skin of diplomacy and territorial demands you will find a fundamentalist, bloodthirsty form of one or more organized religion. Many "progressive" people involved in religions believe they can work eithin their religious institutions to change them for the better. It's an understandable desire- we all work within institutions to some extent, but it's kinda dumb in the same way that the Catholic Church's motivation for wanting to feed the hungry is kinda dumb: their writings and dogma tell them to. Shouldn't they be motivated by simply knowing that feeding the hungry is the right thing to do?? People indoctrinated in religions (including the religions of ideology... not mentioning any names), seem to believe that a moral code cannot exist outside of their institution. It can and it does. We have the ability (and the duty!) to do the right thing without the rhetoric of dogmas, the threat of hierarchies or the fear of some some old coot in a beard firing a fucken lightning bolt at our sinful, hairy, zitty little asses. The saddest thing about religion is what is lost. Religion, or more accurately, I suppose, the appropriators and exploiters of religion, have taken our purest impulses of solidarity, compassion, celebration of the wonder and mystery of our lives, and turned them against us. This, moast of all, is why I reject religion: so that I can reclaim these impulses for the causes they deserve... love and justice.

- <i>Propagandhi</i>

FAQ RULES!
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I will not die! I will not kill! I will not be your slave! I will not fight your battles! I will not die on your battlefields! I will not fight for your wealth! I am not a fighter! I am a human being!
- Anti-Flag


peace-love-unity,

Ryan the Great

[Death Metal Moe]

That's a very good paragraph of stuff, Ryan. And it addresses an Idea at the end that I was never able to eliquently express.

Why is it that ONLY religion can help us do things, and be better people? I'm a pretty decent human being, and I threw off the shackles of Religion MANY years ago. I'm still a moral person, and I treat those closest to me as best I can.

So again, FUCK Christianity. Fuck Islam. Fuck Judaism. And collectivly Fuck all those lesser, wacky religions. WE DON'T NEED THEM TO BE GOOD PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[Coco]

Sorry, I just rattled off the verse in the Bible in my previous post that I thought was related to this topic. The whole verse is as follows in Mathew 16:13....
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14: And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I will probably be codemned for quoting a Bible verse. In today's society, you can give away condoms in schools, but if you quote anything from the Bible in a public school you will probably be fired.


______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[A.J.]

So the church will punish smoking but NOT kid touching?

Holy Smoke! Vatican Bans Puffing on the Job
Thu Jun 27, 9:05 AM ET

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - "Excuse me, your eminence, but if you don't put out that cigarette, I will have to slap you with a Papal fine."

That might be the warning a lowly Vatican policeman may have to recite to a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church next week when smoking will be effectively banned indoors in the Vatican.

A law approved by Pope John Paul and made public on Thursday will ban smoking in nearly all closed spaces inside the 108-acre city-state as of July 1.

The law entrusts the Vatican's tiny police force with enforcement. Violators, including cardinals and archbishops whom the policemen usually greet with a military salute, can be slapped with a fine of 30 euros ($30).

Under the law, "No Smoking" signs must be placed around the Vatican. Since the official language of the Church is Latin, it was not clear if some signs eventually would be in Latin.

If so, they would read "Vetatur Fumare" (No Smoking) or "Prohibetur Uti Fumo" (the use of smoke is prohibited), speculates Father Reginald Foster, a Latin scholar who translated the Vatican's cash point machines from Italian into the language of ancient Rome.

The Pope, who signed the no smoking law on June 4, is the Vatican's supreme monarch. So in theory, he could violate it at will.

But he doesn't smoke.



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[Death Metal Moe]

Even the Devil can quote from the Bible at will. I'm less than impressed. And I studied the Bible form years too. It's an outdated, irrelevent book.

Anyway, no smoking, but kid touching allowed? That sounds about right. The Pope is a Dope.

And quote from the Bible all you want. WILL THE CHURCH TURN IN KID TOUCHERS??? THAT'S THE QUESTION! If NOT, then people should LEAVE and NEVER come back. And worse yet, take their $$ with them. Ohh, the Catholics HATE it when you take you $$ away!

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[Coco]

I can understand your anger NJdmmoe. Don't you think that many devout Catholics out there are also outraged by this as well as the "good priests" who never did anything wrong?

From what I have read, the Church plans on turning over these bad priests for criminal prosecution in the future.

Having someone's priesthood taken away I believe is a separate issue. You can go to jail for life and never be in contact with another human being and still be a "priest". Remember, the Catholic church's foundation is based on forgiveness. I believe the only one who can actually take away the "priesthood" of someone is the Pope. This is an old tradition carried down form Levitican times as stated in Psalms:
4] The LORD has sworn
and will not change his mind,
"You are a priest for ever
after the order of Melchiz'edek."

So, in other words, you can be prosecuted, put in prison, never again see anyone, and still be considered a priest. The Church, however, has taken away any "priestly duties" any of the priests normally did.

Not to defend any of what has happened, but I truly believe that 20 or 25 years ago, the majority of bishops out there, didn't realize that pedophilia is an "incurable condition", but then again, there is no excuse why they weren't prosecuted.

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[Death Metal Moe]

Well Coco, watching the TV last night, I heard that the Pope appoints Bishops, and Bishops appoint Preists, and they can also get rid of them. So if that news channel was accurate, then it makes the Bishops who knew of abuse equally responsible in my eyes.

And you want people, even after they've been convictd of crimes, to retain their preisthood? You want KNOWN and ADMITTED criminals to stay in your religion. This seems like a VERY foolish statement to me. I know of the Christian philosophy of Forgivness, but this seems a little much for me. And I think that most parents wouldn't want known sex offenders to retain their status as a preist either, so when they get out, they can get transferred to ANOTHER church, and live off the congregation's money, and prey off their children.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[NATEDOGG]

LETS FUCKING KILL THEM ALL! KILL EVERY FUCKING PREIST AND EVERY FUCKING CARDINAL AND EVERY FUCKING POPE WHO DARES TO CONDEM PEDOPHILIA AND THEN DO IT THEMSELVES OR DENY THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM OR DO NOTHING ABOUT IT! LISTEN TO METALLICA AND LETS KILL THEM ALL. LETS RAID THE VATICAN AND KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!

Thanks to AG1247 for the SIG pic
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The New Kids On The Block sucked a lot of dick, boy/girl groups make me sick, and I can't wait until I catch all those faggots in public! I'm gonna love it.
-NATEDOGG

[Death Metal Moe]

Well Natedogg, if you're going to Kill, at least listen to something harder than Faggy Metallica. I mean, old Metallica is GREAT, but the new shit is HORRIBLE.

And I REALLY like to act stupid to, but I've been enjoying the somewhat serious discussion going on here. So stop with the KILL EVERYTHING crap.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

Sig Pic is FUCKING BUSTED!!

www.unhallowed.com

[Coco]

I think you guys misinterpreted what I meant. The priests have had their priestly duties stripped from them and they can not serve in the capacities that they once did.

Believe me, I think the last thing that the Catholic Church wants is to be sued.

I frankly, still can not understand the psychology behind why a Church that is usually very strict about many things allowed this stuff to go on.

The only thing I can think of is that psychologists and psychiatrists really didn't understand pedophilia that well years ago. I still think there is debate as to whether this is an incurable illness.

But again, not reporting the abuse to authorities is inexcusable as we all know.

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[Coco]

This is just my theory for what it is worth as to why pedophiles go into the priesthood. (Remember, though, there are a lot of very good priest out there - I know many of them).

I believe a lot of pedophiles have been abused themselves. (I know there is a high percentage of them.) Years ago, unfortunately (and sometimes even today) people feel embarassed or feel they will be stigmatized by going into therapy. So a lot of abused people were never treated for this. At the same time, these guys were probably religious and were probably repulsed by their thoughts toward pedophilia. In order to keep things "in check", they felt that by going into the priesthood with its rigors and rules, it would prevent them from getting involved in that type of activity. Unfortunately, without therapy and guidance and the opportunity for temptation, this is what unfortunately happened to these guys. It is a very sad, sorry situation, and I hope that there is more psychological screening done before anyone is allowed to enter the seminary. Again, I must reiterate, there are a lot of holy, good-meaning priests out there too.

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[Death Metal Moe]

Coco, you keep WANTING to understand these guys. I DON'T.

NOw let's get one thing straight. I HATE your religion. I hate all religion. But it seems that people are gonna keep sending their kids off to Brainwashing school. So if they continue to do that, I'd like to at least see a place that's SAFE for them.

And understanding pedophiles is irrelevent. JUST GET RID OF THEM. I know it's hard to GUESS who's good and who's bad. But you don't need to GUESS with these guys! They're guilty. GOOD-BYE! Hand them over to the cops!

I KNOW the only thing the church can do is to deal with problems as the arise. It IS a very large business. But they DON'T WANT TO turn these preists over! So effectivly, they DON'T WANT to deal with the problem. And those Bishops that KNEW about these preists surely don't want to give up their wealthy positions, or admit their envolvment.

So instead of doing what's right, they're telling Catholics to sit down and shut up. They'll take care of it. Nice try, douche bags.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com

[nellie]

i hate how oraginzed religions think their way is the only way to "salvation"
then when something like what's happening with the catholic church happens they try to cover it up....like not practicing what you preach....
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official member of "the coven"




This message was edited by nellie on 7-3-02 @ 12:25 PM

[Death Metal Moe]

Yes Nellie. I agree. In my opinion, I think that this is the ULTIMATE EVIL of all religion. It makes the followers believe thier way is the "ONLY" way. So it makes them think, whether they're conscious of it of not, that they're better than the other.

Religion keeps people sepeerate. It says it promotes understanding, but it DOESN'T!

DEATH TO RELIGION!!!!!!!

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com

[Coco]

Njdmmoe: I only tried to understand because I am just a very "analytical" person by nature, sorry! I also thought it is such an odd occurance to have a very very strict church allow this to happen.

I also believe that with any problem be it poverty, abuse, war, etc., a solution can not come about unless a full understanding of why the problem occured in the first place is understood. I.e., you can't fix a leak unless you know where it is coming from.

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[Death Metal Moe]

I just have a REAL problem with wanting to 'UNDERSTAND" where these guys are coming from. That opens the door for "Caring" about EVERYBODY. And that's total crap. That's when the Liberals come in, and NO ONE is responsible for their actions. None for me, thanks. The only thing worst than Christians and Liberals.

So I still don't think you initially NEED to understand DICK. You KNOW these guys are kid touching scum, so get them OUT. Then, you can put them under your little Catholic microscope all you want. Study them until the 2nd coming.( snicker, snicker....keep waiting!)

But I do like the tit for tat discussion! I finally have an intellegent Catholic to argure points with! Even if you hate my athiest guts, just thought I'd let you know that I can't wait to see your response to my crap!

At least you're consistent.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com

[Coco]

NJdmmoe: Because understanding why it exists is the best way of preventing it from happening in the future.

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

[Death Metal Moe]

And the best way for the Church to show it's serious is to hand these kid touchers over to the police, and for bishops that shuffled predator preists around to bow out of their positions.

Get all this scandal out of your church, and start again.

There are PLENTY of people who will make sure we try to understand these guys. I'd like to see MORE people who want to see them get what they deserve 1st.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com

[NewYorkDragons80]

You should watch this week's South Park. They did a brilliant satire of atheists. Everything the atheists said has been repeated by someone on this board every 15 seconds.

"No Cross, No Crown."
-William Penn

"Leonardo DiCaprio is an androgynous wimp."
-Senator John McCain

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 7-7-02 @ 1:30 AM

[Ryan the Great]

South Park is being replayed in CC in 15 minutes. Im watching Spaceballs right now but it ends in 15 minutes. isnt that convenient.

FAQ RULES!
<IMG SRC="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/unseenriot/myhomepage/sheep.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US">

I will not die! I will not kill! I will not be your slave! I will not fight your battles! I will not die on your battlefields! I will not fight for your wealth! I am not a fighter! I am a human being!
- Anti-Flag


peace-love-unity,

Ryan the Great

[Death Metal Moe]

Athiests weren't the only thing the South Park episode poked fun at, my friend.

But it was great. That was the first REALLY GOOD episode of that show in awhile.

Marth Stewart taking a Turkey up the poop shoot had to be a highlight.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com

[NewYorkDragons80]

Most skeptics have this terrible misconception of theists. Just because I'm Catholic doesn't mean I blindly follow everything they say.

So Moe, when they satirize the clergy, I'm not offended because they are doing this to bring about a change, not to pointlessly bash them like you.

"No Cross, No Crown."
-William Penn

"Leonardo DiCaprio is an androgynous wimp."
-Senator John McCain

[FUNKMAN]

i heard this quote in a movie and it struck me as being something "logical"

These two guys that stole money from the Mobster they worked for were hiding out in a Convent when one explained Christianity to the other like this:

"When you are living you buy Life Insurance but what the Church is selling you is After Life Insurance... Noone knows for sure if you really need it but you do not want to be caught without it"

I cannot see confessing your sins to anyone but God...This can be done anywhere at anytime. Sincerity is the key...
I dislike the word Religion and wish everyone would just say "I believe in God"


<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">

[Death Metal Moe]

Well New York Dragons, I do enjoy bashing Christians for no other reasons other than they are Christians. But this time, I started this thread to start an actual discussion, and I did that. So why don't you go back and read what I wrote instead of your sweeping generalizations.

Oh, and Christ sucks.

And what do you think should be done with Kid touchers? You DON'T think your church is really dropping the ball on this topic? You don't feel angry that the bishops who knew about abuse are telling you to "mind your own business", and they're not stepping down for their envolvment? Because that's what they're saying. Despite OVERWHELMING public opinion, Bishops still think THEY should disipline preists, and won't turn them over to the cops, and would NEVER step down from their high paying job with great perks.

Don't you want to know where your offering goes every week? It goes for condoms for preists.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com

[MidgetMan]

EMBRACE SATAN.

The perks are better.


www.overthelimit.com

[tomhitch]

Back in 1930's during the Spanish Civil War when the Anarchist Battalions came into a town they would stand the Priest, the Mayor, and the Chief of Police up against a wall and shoot them. Then they would march on, leaving the people to govern themselves. It always seemed like an admirable program to me.

[Death Metal Moe]

I don't want Christians killed. Plus, Satan is Bigger Bullshit than God. Don't fall into that crap either.

I want people to awaken from their Religious Coma, so to speak. And I'd like to see the Real evil, Organized religion taken down with this scandal.

So unless you have a valid point, I will label you a tool.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com

[Captain Rooster]

Did anybody hear about D+M's new Man-ASS promotion?

Feegs


<CENTER><img SRC=http://www.ltrooster.homestead.com/files/squirrelrooster20_animation2.gif></CENTER>
<CENTER>ROOSTER</CENTER>

[tomhitch]

"I don't want Christians killed. "

Nor do I. I just enjoyed the simplicity of the Anarchists Program for releiving that particular type of community of their major sources of oppression...one of them being central to this topic. Besides that was practically a century ago and a world away. I'd agree with you that watching organized religions pulled down by their own corruption and other nasty aspects would do just fine.

Tom

[Cybersoldier]

The church will die if it doesn't change. Just like the human race is slow the change. So is the catholic church is slow to change, by that its politcs being so use to hiding the problems It like filling a pool full of water after awhile the water will pour over the top.

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thanks cheezeemee for the sig

[Death Metal Moe]

Has ANYONE of you so called "Christians" thought that since your religion is worth saving to you, MAYBE you'd better have some change?? I hear NO ONE tallking change, and that's what REALLY kills me. To tell you the truth, I'd rather see Christianity alive around here than Islam start up, or some shit like that. So why don't I hear catholics trying to change anything?

DISMANTLE the Vatican! Start at the TOP, and work down. How many rich old fucks have to live high on the religious Hog? They DON'T NEED Gold plated toilets. I've been to the Vatican on vacation. It's enormous! And so full of treasures, it looks like the Italian Fort Knox. Plus all the other famous churches I saw in Italy, England, Ireland, and other places. The church doesn't need a religious King. I thought Jesus was the King of Kings?

Then, Let Preists marry. This might help a few of the men on the fence, who were some how driven to Kid touching. But not the Faggot ones that LIKE boys.

But the easiest one to start with is TURN IN PREISTS WHO YOU FIND ABUSE KIDS. Is it really that hard? Don't Catholics want to see justice served, and good prevail? Don't they want you to be able to trust them again? Even God had to punish the sinners here and there in the Bible. I learned it as a child. So on Earth, we institute our own law, and lock up preists who abuse kids. Is this SO WRONG or SO EXTREME and Idea that it NEVER even comes up in discussion?

Because it has already damaged the church, and it's probably gonna get worse. I'd ultimately like to see ALL religion abolished, because it just serves to seperate us all. But for now, I'd be content with kids being safe as they're brainwashed. Once they're NOT getting pounded, then, maybe we can give the the TRUTH that religion is bullshit.

EVIL REIGNS!!!

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www.unhallowed.com