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ShelleBink
06-19-2002, 11:17 AM
Why does it seem that parents these days, for the most part, just stink at being parents? Or has it always sucked, just being more evident now with the vast number of kids my age ((18)) being in therapy?

Or is just my parents that blow?

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Aggie
06-19-2002, 12:14 PM
I think a big part of the problem is kids having kids. If you become a mother at 15, you will NEVER have the life experience of a mother who had their child at 25 or 30. I agree to a point. I also think parents are run by their kids. Or they just don't care what they do. Either way, I agree, but times have changed. The generation of parents today are TOTALLY different from ours.

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Jobberific
06-19-2002, 02:23 PM
I think theres a lot of reasons parents are fucked up these day. One, as aggie said, is kids having kids. For the most part, people that young are not emotionally or financially ready to have kids. Antoher problem seems to be that the people nowadays are placing themselves before there children. Its like parents nowadays feel that their own happiness is more important then there kids well being.

But to be fair, my family's been pretty fucked up for a few generaions, so people in glass houses and all that.

AJW...All Jobber Wrestling...All jobbers, all the time.

HordeKing1
06-19-2002, 02:36 PM
SHELLE - Without doubt many parents are fucked up beyond belief and they do not have the skills to raise a well-adjusted child.

It's been remarked many times that it's amazing that you need a license to get married, drive a car, open a restuaraunt or fish from certain lakes, but you don't need a license or need to pass any proficiency test to be a parent.

(In my utopia, you would, but that's another topic.)


Kids having kids is a big problem and all the studies have shown that the younger the age of the mother (I believe up to 20) when she had her first kid, the less likely the child to complete school and the more likely the child to go on some kind of public assistance and/or end up in jail.

But that can't be the entire story. It was relatively recently (within the last 100 years certainly) that our life expectancy was near as high as it is now.

At birth, men's life expectancy is 74 years, and women's life expectancy is 80 years. Interestingly, the older you get, the more likely you are to live longer. For example if a man lives till 85, his life expectancy shoots up to 92. A women in the same situation would have a life expectancy of 94. (OK, so I find it interesting!)

But just a few hundred years ago, people rarely lived past their thirties. The further back you go the lower the life expectancy. People them married at ridiculously young ages like 12 and 14 and had kids immediately. (As part of the continuing oppression of women, virtually all religions forbade birth contorl.)

The children they raised were certainly not more problomatic then the children of today. They couldn't be. If they didn't work for example, they starved.

The answer then has to lie somewhere in the environment. The world is a very complex and frightening place. If a person has not adjusted to it, he or she has little chance to raise a child who will be well adjusted to it.

And when that child shows signs of becoming well-adjusted and functioning on a higher level than his or her parents, the parents often hinder the child's progress so as to avoid feeling badly about themselves.

JOBBERIFFIC said it nicely that some parents place their own happiness ahead of their kids.

Still others indulge their kids every whim. Still others feel their child can do no wrong. (My wife, a school teacher, has at least one of these types of stories every day).

AGGIE - You are correct that the generation of today is vastly different than the generation of yesterday. There's been a tremendous culture shock just from new technology. I mean my mom's VCR is still blinking 12:00!

Feelings of alienation and separateness from our common culture are created and maintained, and the child has no one to turn to when he or she most needs it for help in how to navigate through our difficult world.

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Hawiian shirt craig
06-19-2002, 05:06 PM
i have the best parents out of anyone i know. they
gave me what i needed, and a lot of what i want
but i'm not spoiled. they taught me about drugs,
alcohol and sex... and taught me that they work,
they feel great, but there is a bad side to them all.
they didn't try that, no sex is horrible, feels bad
crap. they watched beavis and butt head with me,
instead of telling me it wasn't funny.... b/c it sure as
hell is. and they never told me no to something
that would make me a better person.

i have trouble identifying with people with shitty
parents, b/c i can always come home. they think
their purpose in life is to make sure me and my
older brother have it better than them, and i will be
the first one in my entire family to graduate college.

my extended family is a different story, but my
house is one of the funniest, sickest, weirdest
places ever. i love it. makes it hard to go away to
school. do u belive i am 19 and get home sick after
2 years away at school already?? its pathetic. but
then again most people's parents aren't as easy
going and kewl as mine, while still looking out for
me.

and shelle.... if i appologize, i'm sure you'll know
why. sorry!!!!

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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brodieman
06-19-2002, 05:22 PM
parents are pretty awful these days. i think its we've just gotten lazy as a society, no one wants to take care of their kids, they ship them off to daycare so they can go f the mailman.

there is also the fast that moms work now, they have no time to be with their children. so they stick them with babysitters ir infront of the tv for a few hours. (im not saying everyone does these things, but its the usualy story, "parents didnt have time for me blah blah blah...")

i also agre with the youger parents theory, working in retail, i see many young parents who just dont know how to handletheir children. people also need to just go on instinct sometimes, dont go running to parenting books and magazines for your answers.
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This message was edited by brodieman on 6-19-02 @ 9:26 PM

Supervixen
06-19-2002, 06:05 PM
I hate all this bad parents talk.
Not for nothing but I hear so many young adults
today "my parents suck.." alot of kids are in
therapy because times have changed altogether.
Things are harder for everyone- have you ever
thought that maybe parents just dont SHOW their
kids how hard it is on them, and maybe they act
unfair at some point because they are under stress
too?

parents do so much for us- things they dont have to
do. Just the fact that we could have been aborted-
and not allowed to live, we could have been thrown
out somewhere, we take that forgranted. we take
EVERYTHING for granted and these days everyone
is too busy moaning and bitching about themselves
to realise.

I had a big fight with my mother the other day
about my father. He did alot of STUPID things-
horde king you know this- everyone else, i dont
wanna share but trust me when I say that I, above
EVERYONE, should hate my parents for shit ive been
through. But after this fight I just realised, you
know what? my father was in the same position at
my age. confused, in alot of pain, not feeling
connected to anyone, and because we all, in this
world have habits of only thinking of ourselves, this
is the way he stayed. I dont blame him for anything.
yeah, he has issues, but who am I to put
judgement on him when I have prob lems myself?
After this fight I was critisizing my mother for
keeping things about my father from me when i was
younger, I went to the bathroom to wash up from
crying- when I came out I noticed my mom outisde
on the porch crying. I dont really see her cry and it
shocked me and i went to my room. When I came
out she was back in the house and back to her
stone faced cold personality, and that helped me
realise what I just said. We dont always know
whats going on with people because they dont
always let us. So before all of us sit here and abuse
our parents because an uncle touched us in a bad
place, remember that as fucked up as we are, they
have problems too. And theres nothing more of a
turn off to me, then people who dont get along with
there families.


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A.J.
06-19-2002, 06:15 PM
I don't think that it's so much being a "bad parent" as it is being guilty of "bad parenting". It seems that there is a woeful lack of discipline (read: spanking). When a child does something wrong a spanking is NOT abusive. When I was a child I was spanked when I did something wrong -- and I certainly didn't do it again. Today's parents seem more inclined to "talk" or "reason" with a child instead.

(I know -- I just opened the floodgates to a barrage of "spanking jokes").

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ShelleBink
06-19-2002, 07:48 PM
eh, i think a lot has to do with the generation gap

my dad's almost 57, and my mom is 51.

they still live as if it were the 40s ((even tho my mom was born in 51)). i dont know, but its just not how i live, or how i feel comfortable.

i guess its hard to explain.

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HordeKing1
06-19-2002, 10:23 PM
CRAIG - Count yourself very fortunate for having parents like that. You seem to be in the minority however. Many if not most people have some pretty heavy shit from their parents on one level or another.

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HordeKing1
06-19-2002, 10:25 PM
BRODIEMAN - Is putting a child in daycare worse than sending them to the coal mines? Yet that is where children as young as six worked until after some labor reforms in the progressive era. (Around 1920)

Most worked 80 hour weeks in sweatshops alongside their mom and dad. Was that family bonding?

There was no legal birth control then and women (especially poor immigrant women) had children one right after the other begining when they were 14 or 15.

All that crap was going on then, but there is a sense that pretty much every generation since the 1960's has gotten more and more difficult and different from their parents with insurmoutable generation gaps.

There has to be some other mechanism at work.

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HordeKing1
06-19-2002, 10:31 PM
ANNA - I understand why "bad parent talk" bothers you.

But there is something else to keep in mind. It's true of course that many parents sacrifice for their kids, do things with them and for them and sometimes are unable to express it. Sometimes they have lousy days and take it out on their kids.

Of much greater concern and significance is the absolutely frightening number of parents I would label as nothing less than "monsters."

A quick example is a mother who sold her 3 year old kid to be gang raped so she could have some money to buy crack. (I sat in on that trial and I don't think I'll ever forget that horrible mother.)

I don't want to get too much into your father on this forum but I will give you something to consider. You wrote "who am I to put judgement on him when I have problems myself?" You know who you are - you're his daughter and he has certain responsibilities towards you.

To forgive or not is of course your decision but you have right to be mad as hell, and be upset that you didn't have a relationship. To put it another way, there is such a thing as being too forgiving.

Parents who physically or sexually or emotionally abuse their children have no justification whatsoever. Whatever their problem was cannot excuse this behavior.

Most parents are not abusers (although a women is beaten every 18 seconds in America) and their children are in a position where they can appreciate the stuff their parents did for them, but also recognize that their parent harmed them as well.

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HordeKing1
06-19-2002, 10:43 PM
AJINDC - Of course there's nothing wrong with a swat on the bottom when a child is young. It's meant as an embarassment to the kid and never to hurt them.

Among my age group, there are parents who never swatted their kids no matter the cause and those that did, and then there were those who were too quick to hit.

Far worse are the parents who put a positive spin on the things their kid does no matter how wrong. These are the parents whose kids start fights and they call the parent of the kid who got beaten up and complain that their kid's face hurt thier kid's hand. That fucks up the kids badly and teaches them to be bullies and criminals; to take things without regard to whom it belongs to and to demand things they aren't entitled to.



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sexy bastard
06-19-2002, 10:55 PM
I was actually ableto confront my father on this matter a few years ago and just about a month ago we were talking about an uncle of mine who is in his late 50s and his wife in her late 20s my father made a good point. He simply said times have changed he knows he raised me in his mind the best possible way but in this day and age he said after i confronted him he realized he did abuse me both physically and verbally/emotionally, he said times have changed because he raised methe way he was raised and that it is wrong andthat the generations evolove and have to change with the times he simply said when he was a kid it was the normal to spank the kids in discipline ( in honesty he beat me) and to yell at the kids (emotionally mess up me and sis) but he said back then there were no doctors and shrinks who really helped children because it was more of an acceptable way of doing it. He is shocked at my uncle cause he knows the way my uncle raised his children who are young adults will not be acceptable for his new kid. My father said that parents must evolve to the days that are at hand and realize things change, and he said something that scared the hell out of me he said that he hopes and prays that when i have my kids that i DONT raise them like he raised me cause he does not want me to be known as a bad parent....ironic that he now realizes he made the mistakes and how he hopes that i dont do the same.


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Hawiian shirt craig
06-20-2002, 06:16 PM
CRAIG - Count yourself very fortunate for having
parents like that. You seem to be in the minority
however. Many if not most people have some pretty
heavy shit from their parents on one level or
another.



you are very righ HK, i know i am and i apreciate it.
sometimes i want to adopt my freinds into my family
so they can have a normal week. anyone want to
come over? LOL CYA!!!

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!

<img src="http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/HSC.gif">

jamesdiggy
06-20-2002, 06:29 PM
There's no formula or science to good parenting. If you're an incompetent, f**k up as an individual, then you'll probably be an incompetent, f**k up as a parent. There's no mystical magic that kicks in and instinctually makes you a "good parent". It takes discipline, responsibility, maturity, and selflessness.

Jeers to me, Nerts on you!

HordeKing1
06-25-2002, 08:43 PM
JAMES - Well said indeed.

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HordeKing1
06-25-2002, 08:43 PM
JAMES - Well said indeed. But the qualities you describe in good parents are in very short supply.

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SuperDave
06-26-2002, 05:20 AM
Let me throw my $.02 in. First, advance apologies, I ramble and I offend. The solution is eugenics. Bad parents breed bad kids. Bad kids grow to be bad parents ad nauseum. All that's needed is to break the cycle. I've already voulenteered to do my part. My parents were/are F ups making me a F up. I know I'll be a bad parent ergo, no kids for me. We just need to implement mandatory birth control for criminals, drug addicts, welfare recipients etc.. Eventualy we decrease the draw on society as a whole. personally i'm sick of my tax $s going to freeloaders and F ups that ain't me!! Seriously folks, I lose half of my paycheck so some crackwhore can spend all day squeezing out more welfare-crack junkie babies. Steralize hte bitch. Brutally. With a rusty nail. I'm done for now.



Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
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sunndoggy8
06-26-2002, 03:27 PM
If you need a license to drive a car, which is basically a huge speeding killing machine, then you definitely should have to take some sort of test to have a kid.

And I'm all for sterilizations for all drug addicts. The less fucked up people raising fucked up kids, the better society will be.

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<i><b><font color="#0F00CD">"You should've seen her face. It was the exact same look my father gave me when I told him I wanted to be a ventriloquist."</font color="#0F00CD"></b></i>

DC Reed
06-26-2002, 03:48 PM
What defines the word, "Drug", Caffine is considered a drug, and Im addicted to caffine. The word drug is too broad. And steralizintion addicts wouldn't do anything, but we could make them complete rehab, then they could have children.

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DC Reed
06-26-2002, 05:42 PM
try working in a toy store around screaming kids........its hell

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SuperDave
06-26-2002, 05:42 PM
And steralizintion addicts wouldn't do anything, but we could make them complete rehab, then they could have children.


I disagree. Studies show that children of addicts have 50% odd of inheriting the genetic predisposition for addiction. In vegas, I'd play those odds and say that kids gonna be a junkie. Now i'm not saying don't put the person through rehab. Make the neutering part of the rehab.



Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card?**

sunndoggy8
06-26-2002, 08:50 PM
The point isn't about drugs, but about irresponsible people having kids and raising them up to be just like them.

I'm sure there are examples of kids who have been raised to live happy lives by former deliquents and drug addicts of society, but there are more bad examples than good ones.

I just think it's the best solution to idiots having kids. Do you know how many stupid people there are in the world? A lot.

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/RFnetSunndoggy8.jpg" width=300 height=100>

<i><b><font color="#0F00CD">"You should've seen her face. It was the exact same look my father gave me when I told him I wanted to be a ventriloquist."</font color="#0F00CD"></b></i>

sunndoggy8
06-26-2002, 09:06 PM
Things are harder for everyone- have you ever thought that maybe parents just dont SHOW their kids how hard it is on them, and maybe they act unfair at some point because they are under stress too? <P>
I'm sorry, but if it was going to be so stressful to have a kid and deal with life, then why have a kid in the first place? I'm sick of people saying that it's so difficult to raise a kid and deal with life...if it's so hard, then plan ahead, and don't have a kid! Get your fucking life together, and don't bring another life into the world if you're not going to dedicate the time and effort to treating it fairly and with dignity. <P>
parents do so much for us- things they dont have to do. Just the fact that we could have been aborted- and not allowed to live, we could have been thrown out somewhere, we take that forgranted. we take EVERYTHING for granted and these days everyone is too busy moaning and bitching about themselves to realise. <P>
You say that parents do so much, and things that they don't have to do...if you're a parent, yes you do HAVE TO DO some things. That's what happens when you decide to become one...you get responsibility to take care of the life you brought into the world. <P>
Furthermore, we should just blindly accept that there are bad parents because there are more important things? Bad parenting is one of the important things, because it's teaching a whole new generation to treat their kids like crap. <P>
And finally, if a person accused their parents of being bad parents if a relative sexually abused them...well yea, that's sort of bad parenting, sorry to say. If you're going to have a kid, I think it's a given that you make sure no one molests them, cause that could destroy them. <P>
It all comes down to responsibility, and it seems like no one wants to deal with it. <P>

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/RFnetSunndoggy8.jpg" width=300 height=100>

<i><b><font color="#0F00CD">"You should've seen her face. It was the exact same look my father gave me when I told him I wanted to be a ventriloquist."</font color="#0F00CD"></b></i>