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How Will Israel Survive? [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

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The Blowhard
06-20-2002, 08:25 PM
Any suggestions?


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White People Are So Scared of Cannibals

Meatball
06-20-2002, 08:40 PM
if you have a acute disease, the only way you will "survive" is by eliminating the disease.

Israel, who hasshown more restraint than any other country has ever shown an enemy in history, must take its army full force into Gaza and the west bank, and ELIMINATE Hamas, the PLO and the Palestinain Liberation Front who have all taken credit for suicide attacks. yes some thousand civilains will die because the militants hide in homes and basements. War for ones survival calls for causalites. Israel has suffered many terrible losses..maybe Israel will put aside its masochistic need to be loved by the world, and start getting involved in this war.

Yerdaddy
06-20-2002, 08:41 PM
Not again, Heckler. Please? Not again!

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The Blowhard
06-20-2002, 08:52 PM
Not again, Heckler. Please? Not again!



Hey, there's nothing like a civil dialogue between friends!


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White People Are So Scared of Cannibals

Yerdaddy
06-20-2002, 08:59 PM
You've been setting these up to pass the time when you're bored, haven't you? Like a kid puting two spiders in a jar to watch them fight, you just start a thread like this and laugh like Idi Amin for the next two weeks, don't you? Am I supposed to be Gay Randy or Al?

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If I don't make you laugh, you don't know what felch means.

This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 6-21-02 @ 1:06 AM

NewYorkDragons80
06-20-2002, 09:01 PM
I'm more than willing to discuss this with the Heckler because I know he doesn't like to take his ball and go home.

I don't think Israel is going anywhere, it's just a matter of when will they say enough is enough? Clearly they can't and won't go on like this. There should be a Palestinian state, but only after there is an end to the intafada.

No matter what anyone's stance is on this issue, I think we can all agree that Sharon is no Rabiin.

We live in the present, we dream of the future and we learn eternal truths from the past.
-Chiang Kai-Shek

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The Blowhard
06-20-2002, 09:07 PM
laugh like Idi Amin

More like Geoffrey Holder: "This is a cola nut"!
But seriously, this whole discussion went south because it always gets personal.
I think Horde King has many valid points, although his idea of genocide is just a rare outburst of emotion from the Ol' King. Jewish women and children are being blown up, should the Palestinians be rewarded with statehood? The Jews are fed up, who can blame them when hundreds of thousands of Arab school kids are taught to hate them? There are no easy answers, I hate to say it but I predict some kind of nuke strike is right around the corner. The suicide-homicide bombers are pushing the Jews..nothing would shock me.


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White People Are So Scared of Cannibals

Yerdaddy
06-20-2002, 09:20 PM
but what is going to come up that we haven't covered here before? Are we going to solve the Middle East problem here on ronfez.net? I'm all for talking international relations, I live for it, but this one is so fucking tired on this board. We'll post the same stuff, get personal, then HK will throw out a sweeping personal attack and lock the thread. If we really wanted to keep this going, we would revive the "Time to kill that scumbag Arafat" thread.

Besides, I only half believe that you really want this to continue because you hardly post on these.

Well, I'm not touching this again until you-know-who weighs in. I'm curious what would happen if we let the rest of the crowd try to work this out without the usual suspects.

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If I don't make you laugh, you don't know what felch means.

NewYorkDragons80
06-20-2002, 09:48 PM
Well, I'm not touching this again until you-know-who weighs in. I'm curious what would happen if we let the rest of the crowd try to work this out without the usual suspects.
If you're gonna come out and take stance like that, you really should talk to me and Hippie first. If this continues, we're gonna start excluding you from the secret meetings.

We live in the present, we dream of the future and we learn eternal truths from the past.
-Chiang Kai-Shek

"Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father."
-Senator John McCain

Yerdaddy
06-20-2002, 10:22 PM
we're gonna start excluding you from the secret meetings.
Yea, and who's going to show up if I don't bring my special brownies? That's what I thought.

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If I don't make you laugh, you don't know what felch means.

The Blowhard
06-21-2002, 06:26 AM
Besides, I only half believe that you really want this to continue because you hardly post on these.



Me? Hardly post? Never!
I enjoy a good debate, it's a shame that we can't have an honest dialogue without the personal attacks.



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White People Are So Scared of Cannibals

DarkHippie
06-21-2002, 07:24 AM
I really don't want to touch this. i don't want to think of a nuclear strike, especially since Pakistan (a muslim nation) is nuclear capable and would surely retaliate.

i just don't want to argue anymore. Our fighting here gets as much done as the fighting in Israel, and creates a very angry and uncomfortable environment, and there's just bad feelings flying all over the place.

we've created an odd little model of the situation we're trying to discuss, haven't we? :)

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Hawiian shirt craig
06-21-2002, 11:53 AM
Isreal, will survive by doing what it has to... killing
everyone. the palestinians are out of control. their
goverment is in shambles, the people hate
eachotehr as much as jews and iseral needs to
whip them out. and dont give me any of that
holocaust shit... this IS for survial. besides,
palestinians are just dirtier versions of egyptians
and jordanians. there will be plenty left

-Hawiian Shirt Craig
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!

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Noellevious
06-21-2002, 12:50 PM
Yea, and who's going to show up if I don't bring my special brownies?

And that is the way to kiss and make up.

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NewYorkDragons80
06-21-2002, 02:46 PM
Israel is going to be around forever. It's idiotic to deny that. I just hope they know what they are doing in these territories. Minorities have always spawned faster than the majority. Look at Northern Ireland; in less than 20 years there will be an equal number of Protestants and Catholics. The day will come when the sides are evenly matched (Maybe not technologically, but in terms of manpower.)

"No Cross, No Crown."
-William Penn

"Leonardo DiCaprio is an androgynous wimp."
-Senator John McCain

Meatball
06-21-2002, 07:57 PM
Please look at this animation - it explains History in the middle east, easy enough for anyone to understand.



http://www.conceptwizard.com/conflict.html



This message was edited by mortician on 6-22-02 @ 12:02 AM

DC Reed
06-21-2002, 08:01 PM
in the 1950's, palestinians invaded isreal after it was drawn on the map, isreal was not even a year old and they kicked thier asses.

isreal will be fine, and im sick of this shit, i dont care anymore, and i wish the two countries would stop thier cat-fight and just go back, read their torah or koran and stop these dumbass suicide bombings and invasions.

isreal just needs to let palestine have that small plot of land they want so badly if they want the bombings to end.

such ignorance.



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CowBoyJoka
06-21-2002, 08:20 PM
We let it go on long enough we won't have to worry about it. They'll annihilate each other to the point of damn near extinction. But personally I don't think it's any of our business. We have a bad habit of sticking our face where it doesn't belong. People die and then we feel sorry for ourselves. All we have to do is stay out of it and we will be just fine. They are big kids now, let them handle their own problems. <P>

While I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, I have done it to a lot of ladies. So I have a degree in Tang as it were.

CowBoyJoka
06-21-2002, 08:20 PM
We let it go on long enough we won't have to worry about it. They'll annihilate each other to the point of damn near extinction. But personally I don't think it's any of our business. We have a bad habit of sticking our face where it doesn't belong. People die and then we feel sorry for ourselves. All we have to do is stay out of it and we will be just fine. They are big kids now, let them handle their own problems. <P>

While I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, I have done it to a lot of ladies. So I have a degree in Tang as it were.

DC Reed
06-21-2002, 08:28 PM
thats what we said when hitler invaded russia, let em kill each other.....

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NewYorkDragons80
06-22-2002, 11:52 AM
Mortician, that was a very good site. Everyone here should go. I am not a fan of Arafat at all, but he is the closest thing the Palestinians have to a moderate. He is their most tolerant leader. Killing him would leave only the leaders of Hezbollah and Jihad to negotiate with. In a land of cutthroats, he is the least of evils. Sharon is not much better. He is indecisive and incompetent. No matter what side you are on, you have to admit that Sharon is a General, not a politician. I weep for the Palestinian and Israeli people, not Arafat or Sharon.

"No Cross, No Crown."
-William Penn

"Leonardo DiCaprio is an androgynous wimp."
-Senator John McCain

Gvac
06-22-2002, 12:17 PM
How Will Israel Survive?
Surely not by giving a piece of land that is a tactical vantage point to a nation of people who have sworn to eradicate them.

That is all.




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DarkHippie
06-22-2002, 02:16 PM
the way i picture arafat is like a scab. he's crusty and disgusting, but if you pick him off, you'll have a flow of blood underneath.

better a scab than an open wound

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HordeKing1
06-25-2002, 09:37 PM
Sorry for the delay. I'll try to respond to everyone in order. I apologize if I inadvertently omitted anyone.


HECKLER - (You troublemaker)
How will Israel survive? By doing whatever needs to be done.

MORTICIAN - (To continue your metaphor) By recognizing that the only way to prevent cancer from recurring is to completely eradicate it.

NYDRAGON - 4 pages of posts just in the last of 10 or more threads on this topic, (about 3 pages past when it should have been locked) and you're upset you didn't have your say? Fortunately Sharon is not a Rabin. Rabin was at best a traitor to the Israelis. Sharon is much better but he is nowhere near extreme enough. The only Israeli politician with a clue what to do was Meir Kahane, but the Arabs assassinated him, his wife, his kids, and his grandkids. (These were all separate incidents except for one son and daughter in law.) Kahane knew that when your enemy has vowed to destroy you, it is your moral imperative to destroy him before he does so. Fortunately, the Kach party is growing very strong in Israel now, as more people wake up.

HECKLER - Yep I'm very emotional about this topic.

YERDADDY - Surprise, surprise, attack me on this issue, and I'll fight back. Shocked? Well you're just like the world, which would much rather have had Jews present their throat to all their adversaries. Israel has cared about world opinion for far too long. They'll be condemned no matter what they do. So do whatever is necessary. Another complaint about locking a thread after 4 pages and 10 other threads with nothing new said. Perhaps it's another illustration on how differently we view reality.

HIPPIE - You wrote, "we've created an odd little model of the situation we're trying to discuss, haven't we?" Well said.

CRAIG - I agree, but it's not a matter of physical filth, it's their hatred in their hearts and their religious teachings that require jihad like their mad prophet Mohamed. If the Egyptians and Jordanians would not seek Israel's destruction, Israel would have no reason to destroy them.

NYDRAGON - I disagree that Israel will magically always around forever. They will only be around if they defend themselves against the numerically superior nations that want to crush them. They only outnumber Israel by about 500 to 1.

DCREED - The Arabs have never been interested in land for peace it has been demonstrated time and time again. They will not be happy until Israel is destroyed. And America. And the rest of the non-Muslim world.

COWBOYJOKA - As the only superpower in the world we have a moral imperative to intervene and fight on the side of rightness. Aside from that, the Arab animosity isn't just limited to Israel. It's anti-American, and anti non-Muslim. It is in our self interest to intervene and wipe evil from the world, so it doesn't come and bite us on our asses.

DCREED - Exactly. The world is too small for things to be "someone else's problem."

NYDRAGON - Arafat has pledged to destroy Israel. He has rejected land for peace. He actively sponsors terrorist groups and activities. You call him a moderate? The horror is that perhaps in comparison to the typical Arab man and women on the street he is. Sharon is a general, who is too cowed by world opinion to do what is needed. Political solutions have failed utterly and unlike what you may have heard when you were little, it takes one side to fight. Israel's choice is to be fought and not defend itself or to destroy the ability of any of it's enemies to fight again.

GVAC - You clearly get it.

HIPPIE - Getting rid of the scab of Arafat isn't the ends or even the means to an end. It's one part of a campaign against terror, much as we're going after Osama.

And I'll leave with this imagery from Earnie's House of Whoop Ass. (Another guy who gets it). You know what I'd love to see coming out of Saudi Arabia, even more than oil? Nuclear fallout.


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NewYorkDragons80
06-26-2002, 02:04 AM
Child, I think you knew what I meant. Arafat is a relative moderate. Let's say the US rigged an election and placed a true moderate in power. Not long after, we would see another Ayatollah come to power. There has to be a better solution than wiping out the Palestinians.

Sure others outnumber Israel by huge differences; just like the Egyptian Air Force outnumbered them, and the Jordanian Army outnumbered them. If the Israelis are defending their land, they will continue winning every war because they have a passion for existing (and justifiably so.) Right now, the reservists occupying Palestine have admitted they want it to end because it isn't their land they are protecting from an offensive force.

Just out of curiosity, were you for or against US involvement in Vietnam.

"No Cross, No Crown."
-William Penn

"Leonardo DiCaprio is an androgynous wimp."
-Senator John McCain

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 6-26-02 @ 6:15 AM

A.J.
06-26-2002, 01:53 PM
Sure others outnumber Israel by huge differences: just like the Egyptian Air Force outnumbered them, and the Jordanian Army outnumbered them. If the Israelis are defending their land, they will continue winning every war because they have a passion for existing (and justifiably so.)


True, Israel has defeated, can defeat and most likely WILL defeat most or all of the countries in the Middle East. The point is that they should not HAVE to fight.

They have shown incredible restraint in dealing with daily attacks and threats upon their homeland. I'm sure they're tired of having to deal with this as well dreading the thought of yet another war.



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Boba Fett
06-26-2002, 02:11 PM
How Will Israel Survive?

my bet goes to the chance that they will always be this way with no chance of resolution because they seem to have no intention whatsoever of changing their policies toward their neighbors(brothers if you come right down to it)
its like as if NY and NJ started a war, I mean are we different races of people because there is a river between us? No and thats how silly they are being.
Let the stuff that happened 5000+ years ago be exactly what it is ANCIENT HISTORY

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Yerdaddy
06-26-2002, 02:14 PM
YERDADDY - Surprise, surprise, attack me on this issue, and I'll fight back. Shocked? Well you're just like the world, which would much rather have had Jews present their throat to all their adversaries. Israel has cared about world opinion for far too long. They'll be condemned no matter what they do. So do whatever is necessary. Another complaint about locking a thread after 4 pages and 10 other threads with nothing new said. Perhaps it's another illustration on how differently we view reality.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz... Huh? Shit. Sorry. You're right on this last point; you get to treat reality on this subject like most people treat religion - you make it up or cherry-pick the information you like and call it reality. When you've stopped dismissing official US policy as Arab propaganda, when you're no longer afraid to read the Mitchell Report because it doesn't placate your own fears and hatreds, then we'll make some progress. In the mean time, the rhetoric has bec...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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If I don't make you laugh, you don't know what felch means.