Why do people "hate" the ACLU?

[TheMojoPin]

I'll readily admit, most of the cases they take that end up on the press are pretty stupid...but at the same time they take on hundreds of cases each year that are beneficial to ALL Americans and aren't just wacky "liberal" or conservative nonsense quests. So why is it so many Americans are quick to "hate" an organization that simply tries to watch out for the common freedoms that we all as Americans deserve to have? For the most part, they haven't done anything that would force anyone to change their lives one way or another, it's more a series of "just in case" scenarios...so why all the hate?

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[The Mad Mongo]

because most of them are assholes and they dont watch out for most americans, just ones that hate america

[HordeKing1]

THEMOPJOPIN - Granted that the ACLU does champion some worthy causes.

However, they are just as likely to take on a cause of the worlds sickest fuck as the world's biggest victim.

The cases they take are often anti-American, anti-common sense, anti-reason, and above all else, plain shortsighted stupidity.

The ACLU will gain respect when they learn to chose their battles and not take on every sick cause that walks through their door.

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[Death Metal Moe]

It just seems to me that lately, evertime I hear about the ACLU trying to do something, they're on what I feel is THE WRONG SIDE.

And yes, it does seem to be a very Liberal run organization at times.

Now I can't site specifics, because I simply don't remember all the instances where I heard there name. So I'm stuck with my opinion and gut feeling about this one.

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[The Mad Mongo]

people are allowed to burn the american flag in america because of the aclu

[Se7en]

There's a difference between merely fighting for the rights and freedoms of Americans, and going to a whole new extreme. The ACLU is all about taking those rights, and bending them so far its to the breaking point.

The cases they take are often anti-American, anti-common sense, anti-reason, and above all else, plain shortsighted stupidity.

Exactly.

At my law school, during an orientation meeting, an ACLU lawyer got up and mentioned how they were suing John Ashcroft in relation to him holding the Al Qaeda prisoners.

The scary thing - you should have heard the fucking cheers in the room as he said this.

I just HAD to pick the liberal school to attend. It's gonna be a loooong year.

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[The Mad Mongo]

Law students love the aclu because they sue citys,states and the govt. all three rather settle then fight, thats where the money is . lawyers are bloodsuckers. these schools love to let foreigners into this country to go to school here for almost nothing. meanwhile it cost so much for americans to go that most cant afford it and never complete their degree.

[HordeKing1]

I believe I was the only person in my law school to vote for Reagan.

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[legroommusic]

As far as I'm concerened, the ACLU doesn't have A-CLU. Huh?

Wow, I'd actually give up my civil rights if it meant never coming up with material like that ever again.


steaks anyone?

[RandomNY]

I find it funny that organisations like the ACLU will protest when a serial rapist/ killer gets the death penalty because that violates the Killer's civil rights but they haven't made a peep about 2 (Shlock Jocks, thanks you Daily News, Tools!) lose their jobs over a stupid prank....

I love selective protectors of our civil rights...


I listen to much less WNEW than I used to!!!!



This message was edited by RandomNY on 8-28-02 @ 10:11 AM

[SuperDave]

Ah, The ACLU, another american institution that sounded like a good idea at first but wound up in the wrong hands and went horribly awry!!! However I do have a solution when I wind up in charge. Any off the wall case that the ACLU champions and loses, they have to cover all expenses in the case. They have to pay the salaries of all court employies working during any related hearings, the opposing atty.'s fees, hell even the utillity bills in whatever govt. buildings they use. Maybe then they'll think a little harder about what causes they'll go all apeshit over.



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[DarkHippie]

The ACLU will gain respect when they learn to chose their battles
I thought justice was supposed to be blind? Is it truly justice, then if they only take the cases that will give them good PR?

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[TheMojoPin]

I thought justice was supposed to be blind? Is it truly justice, then if they only take the cases that will give them good PR?

Good point. Actually, everyone has made great points in this thread. On one hand, I think the ACLU takes on FAR too many cases that are blatently unecessary, overly sensational, and actually too "liberal"...but then on the other hand, I'm actually glad overall that an organization like that exists. Sure, it's falwed, sometimes deeply, but if it were a bit more focused and evenhanded, it could be a great thing for this country. And while we're at it, why WOULDN'T they take on O&A's case? The ACLU doesn't just run out and take someoe's cause...usually they need to be approached or alerted, right? So who's to say that if O&A or someone in their camp approached the ACLU, they wouldn't take their side? Or even vice-versa with the Catholic Church? I mean, in theory, they could work EITHER side...

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[NewYorkDragons80]

I believe I was the only person in my law school to vote for Reagan.
There is hope for you yet.
McCAIN IN 2008!!!!

You guys can call me whatever you want, but I'm not wild over any anti-religion organization. Even if you take that out of the equation, they took up the cause of that damn cop-killer in Philly.

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 8-28-02 @ 10:49 PM

[TheMojoPin]

There is hope for you yet.
McCAIN IN 2008!!!!

I'll get you off that notion...I was planning on voting for McCain if he made it out of the primaries last time around...but when that didn't pan out, I voted for NADER instead! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAH!

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[TheMojoPin]

they took up the cause of that damn cop-killer in Philly.

Who, Mumia Abu-Jamal? Whoo, now THERE'S a convoluted case...

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[seagullbeagle]

The ACLU does take some wacky cases....and end up on the wrong side of alot of things....but they have done some good like: In 1925 they appealed a teachers case after he was jailed for teaching evolution in his Tennessee classroom, during WWII they were basically alone in denouncing the governments round up of over 100,000 Japanese living in America,an act our government just recently apologized for..... In The years leading up to 1954 they assisted in the court battle to end school segregation. In 1973 They played an active role in Roe v Wade and continue to be active in protecting women's reproductive freedoms And In 1997:ACLU v Reno The Aclu fought to have the 1996 Communications Decency Act struck down which attempted to censor this very Internet by banning indecent speech on the internet.
So while the ACLU takes some cases we aren't all behind and probably shouldnt be...
They do take on the cases we ALL should be behind and are not.

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"For those who fought for our rights, and for those that gave their lives.And for the families who's loved ones died.Its Their honor for which we still fight." HATEBREED

This message was edited by seagullbeagle on 8-29-02 @ 2:37 AM

[ToddEVF]

I find it funny that organisations like the ACLU will protest when a serial rapist/ killer gets the death penalty because that violates the Killer's civil rights but they haven't made a peep about 2 (Shlock Jocks, thanks you Daily News, Tools!) lose their jobs over a stupid prank....

well, they believe that killing someone is wrong even if they killed someone but having people lose there job over an okayed contest isn't worth anything. I think its the fact that they are no nothing ziltches that rather protest against death then protest against saving peoples jobs.

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[DarkHippie]

well, they believe that killing someone is wrong even if they killed someone but having people lose there job over an okayed contest isn't worth anything. I think its the fact that they are no nothing ziltches that rather protest against death then protest against saving peoples jobs.
I don't think OnA's civil rights have been violated here. and since this isn't a court case, there's little the aclu can do anyway.

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[HordeKing1]

A case could be made that their civil rights were violated by a religioius organization dictating corporate policy that resulted in their being unjustly fired.

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[TheMojoPin]

But wouldn't they have to approach the ACLU? Or at least shouldn't they? It always sounds as if the ACLU is called in or requested...

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[Recyclerz]

A case could be made that their civil rights were violated by a religioius organization dictating corporate policy that resulted in their being unjustly fired. <P>
Beggin' leave, your Majesty but that wouldn't be violating their civil rights cuz the gov't isn't denying the Unnamed Duo anything (yet). Apparently, Mr. Karmazin (aka God) decided they weren't worth defending cuz he's got a much bigger toy box now then when he was protecting Stern & Imus back in the day. <P>
I think the ACLU is unpopular cuz they do a lousy PR job outside the committed liberal pinkos such as myself. They have to defend freaks (in the pejorative sense) in order to defend principles (free speech anybody?). It isn't often easy to swallow but I think it is necessary. <P>

You're only young once but you can be immature forever!

[HordeKing1]

Recyclerz - Corporations can violate individual's civil rights when they fire them to please religious fanatics.


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[NewYorkDragons80]

Mojo, I did the same thing believe it or not.

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

[TheMojoPin]

Mojo, I did the same thing believe it or not.

*Salute*

Nothing but respect...not for the choice itself, but the willingness to think outside of the box.

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[Coco]

I am not sure if the ACLU was involved in the case of allowing people to "overimpose" a different body or face onto a child for child porn for the distinct purpose for the use to pedophiles, and then using the defense that a child was not used in a sex act - this sounds like a case that ACLU would definitely want to defend for the child porn makers. After all, "it's freedom of expression and speech"!

______________________

We can't change our past, but we can change the way we look at it - into something more positive

This message was edited by Coco on 8-30-02 @ 2:10 PM

[TheMojoPin]

THIS article below is why the ACLU should stick around. People are retarded.

http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/nation/story/516894p-4102578c.html

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[NewYorkDragons80]

I think the ACLU should exist simply because if it ceased to exist, it would upset the balance we currently have between the extreme right and extreme left.

You don't have to be religious to find sex in St. Patrick's offensive.

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

"If gold should rust, what will iron do?"
-Geoffrey Chaucer

[TheMojoPin]

You don't have to be religious to find sex in St. Patrick's offensive.

FINALLY, someone gets it. Dragon is smarter than a fortune cookie.

<img src=http://www.ltrooster.homestead.com/files/themojopin.jpg>
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[DarkHippie]

mojo, that is one of the most disturbing articles I have ever read.

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<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Transcendental Blues: a journal</a>

[Captain Rooster]

White people are so scared...

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<CENTER>No matter how he tried he could not break free.
And the worms ate into his brain.</center>

[HordeKing1]

The ACLU fought to give NAZI's the right to march through the Jewish community of Skokie, Illinois.



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[Yerdaddy]

The ACLU fought to give NAZI's the right to march through the Jewish community of Skokie, Illinois.
"Keeping a few Nazis off the streets of Skokie will serve Jews poorly if it means that the freedoms to speak, publish or assemble any place in the United States are thereby weakened." -Aryeh Neier, Executive Director of the ACLU at the time whose relatives died in Nazi concentration camps during World War II

The principle being defended is the indivisibility of the freedom of speech, meaning that the government is not permitted to decide which groups have first ammenment protection and which don't. It is the same principle under which the ACLU defended the same rights for the civil rights movement, the labor rights movement, anti-war protesters, anti-nuclear protesters, and is now opposing the right of universities to enact "speech codes" to prohibit certain kinds of speech on public university campuses.

The vast majority of work the ACLU does is to defend the rights of ordinary citizens. But unfortunately, this work is not news. The few cases that make the news are where the ACLU defends the rights of scumbags like the Nazis or the Klan. But it is critical that an organization like the ACLU does not consider the popularity of the people or groups it defends when choosing it's cases. It is the principles of liberty granted to us all under the Constitution that have to be protected from both the government and from the "tyrrany of the majority." And the only way to protect those rights is to protect them for everyone, regardless of the correctness or fallacy of their cause.

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If I don't make you laugh, you don't know what felch means.

[seagullbeagle]

Amen

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"For those who fought for our rights, and for those that gave their lives.And for the families who's loved ones died.Its Their honor for which we still fight." HATEBREED

[HordeKing1]

There are instances where speech is regulated and we all accept it. The seminal case on this, is the SC decision that the first Ammendment does not give one the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre.

Although I find the idea of censorship abhorent, there are instances where it is indecent not to censure things. Rights aren't universal. Your right to speak your mind freely is not the same as the right of a hate mongerer to preach hatred, murder and death.

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[TheMojoPin]

Was the issue more WHERE the Nazis could march, or just the idea of whether or not they could march, period?

Unfortunately, they should have the right to put on their pitiful little goosestep-fests, but to fight specifically for it to go through a Jewish community...well, that's just moronic.

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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP

[HordeKing1]

The issue in Skokie was the Nazi's insistence in marching THROUGH a Jewish neighborhood that contained several survivors of the Holocaust. They were offered an alternate marching route which they refused - as it would not be as inflamatory. A permit to march through the Jewish neighborhood was denied to them so the ACLU went to bat for the Nazi's rights to march through the Jewish neighborhood.

Fuckers.

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[TheMojoPin]

"Illinois Nazis."

"I HATE Illinois Nazis."

<img src=http://www.ltrooster.homestead.com/files/themojopin.jpg>
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
-TMP