View Full Version : Could the Axis powers rise again?
TheMojoPin
10-05-2002, 12:05 PM
Alright, so that's a little dramatic, but I know that after WW2, Germany and Japan's millitary powers were heavily limited. So what do they have today? Do they each have enough of a millitary to defend their borders, or do they need to rely on allies for support? I'm just asking because in all the talks about invading Iraq, Germany and Japan are brought up as our usual allies, and I was just wondering what they could contribute outside of, say, supplies, transportation, etc..
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whale_JUNK
10-05-2002, 02:33 PM
both of those countries participation will consist of supplies and other crap, and that is if they agree to our plans and goals. the nazis are a long shot and the japs will do whatever we say because they are in economic shit. their military might is enough to defend their own borders because they are all too aware of the outcome of WWII even after all this time. the germans were wary of participating in Kosovo because of their legacy of aggression.
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Yerdaddy
10-05-2002, 09:20 PM
The Japanese constitution, written by the staff of General MacArthur in 1946, during the post-war US occupation, has a "non-agression" clause as its Article 9. It reconstituted its miltary as the "National Police Reserve" in 1950 and renamed it the "Self-Defense Forces" in 1954. Japan filled support roles in the Korean, Vietnam and Gulf Wars and bankrolled the Gulf War to the tune of $13 billion. Japan has taken an option to fund peacekeeping operations through the UN as an alternative to contributing soldiers. In 1992 it passed a "Peace-Keeping Law" which allowed it to contribute troops to UN missions in Cambodia, Mozambique, the Golan Heights, Rwanda and Honduras, but always in non-combat roles, constructing roads, helping run refugee camps and hospitals, etc.
Despite the its role in creating Japan's "Peace Constitution", the US has been pressuring Japan to amend Article 9 to allow full participation in combat operations. I sat in on at least 5 congressional hearings on East Timor crisis in 1999 and in every one members of congress made the statement that it's time that Japan ammended its constitution to allow for military engagement. Nevertheless, two 2000 Japanese polls showed that only 3-5% of Japanese citizens favor ammending Article 9.
To save time I'll make three points as to why Japan will not be a threat to anyone in the forseeable future:
1. The Japanese Self-Defense Forces, being rebuilt with only that role in mind, is ill-suited to make aggressive war against a formidable enemy. Modern military forces are designed in systems with specific weapons being designed to interact with other weapons for maximum effect in specific types of combat. It is no longer who has the biggest or the most guns. Japan would need to reconstitute a major portion of its military in order to try to take on another modern military,
2. The people of Japan, having suffered greatly in the dictatorial and expansionist era of Imperial Japan and World War II, have shown no interest in militarization. They have embraced democracy, and are extremely sceptical of the suggestions to take a militarily offensive posture in the world. They have no problem picking up the check, but they will never allow themselves to reconstitue the old empire or its attitudes.
3. The US and Japan are so deeply intertwined economically, and culturally that niether country would risk an act of agression against each other. Both economies, (Japan's is the second largest in the world behind ours), would be thrown into deep depressions, and the global economy would follow.
In short, we're as likely to go to war with Britain as with Japan.
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TheMojoPin
10-06-2002, 07:01 AM
Thanks, daddy, that clears up half of it...but what about Germany?
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furie
10-06-2002, 03:40 PM
Germany has a similar clause in it's constitution.; having been occupied by the US until 1962.
But let us remember that Germany was ordered to disarm after WWI, but they rebuilt their war machine. Japan was ordered to disarm (not as drastically as Germany) after the russo-japanese war, but they rebuilt.
Just because they're not supposed to have a military doesn't mean they couldn't, if the proper regime was in power.
That being said, i sincerely doubt we'd see WWIII in the same scenario as it happened in WWIII.twice in one century is enough for Europe I'd say.
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This message was edited by furie on 10-6-02 @ 7:59 PM
TheMojoPin
10-06-2002, 07:24 PM
Japan was ordered to disarm (not as drastically as Germany) after the russo-japanese war, but they rebuilt.
Who told them to disarm? I thought the Japanese won after they pasted Russia...
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HordeKing1
10-06-2002, 10:20 PM
The reality in Japan at least is a little bit different from what their constitution may state.
JAPAN does not have an Army, Navy, or Air Force. However it does have a "Ground Self Defense Force" a "Maritime Self -Defense Force, Maritime Self-Defense Force" and an "Air Self-Defense Force" - in other words the exact same military branches with different names.
The annual budget for the Japanese "self-defense forces" is more than $50 billion dollars (US).
The reason why Japan is not militaristically aggressive is thanks to the work of Margaret Sanger, the greatest woman of the past century who brought birth control to Japan. Japan is a very small country. Historically, whenever the population reached critical levels (as it did prior to WWII) they went to war. It occassionaly gained territory, and killed off the surplus population.
In recognition of Sanger's work, which allowed the reversal of Japan's aggressive military philosophy, the Emperor awarded Sanger with the first medal ever given a foreigner.
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furie
10-07-2002, 06:21 AM
Who told them to disarm? I thought the Japanese won after they pasted Russia...
well, ordered was not the right word. they agreed to partially disarm as part of the treaty that Teddy Roosevelt hammered out. Russia had to scale back the size of their pacific fleet too.
*Trivia Warning* Teddy Roosevelt won the Nobel Peace Prize for this.*
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Bob Impact
10-07-2002, 06:43 AM
Germany HAS risen again in a certain form, in that they the EU's bank is now in Bonn, Germany. Germany has become a stronger force within the EU and hence a stronger force within the global economic order. He who controls the money controls the power they say, but no, Germany has no standing army worth speaking on.
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TheMojoPin
10-07-2002, 12:07 PM
Thanks, everyone. Just one of those random questions that popped into my head after watching a little too much of The History Channel.
Of course, it seems Germany and Japan focused all the aggression and energy into industry. Look who's making all the cars these days...so if you just point someone the right way...
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"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."
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