The Future Looks Bright: A New Way To Kill Arab Scum

[The Blowhard]

A New Breed of Predator
The CIA is using unmanned aircraft not just for surveillance, but for attack. A new generation of air superiority is being born before our eyes.
by Christian Lowe
11/08/2002 12:00:00 AM







LAST WEEKEND'S attack by an unmanned RQ-1A Predator drone on a group of six al Qaeda terrorists was the first known strike by an unmanned aerial vehicle outside Afghanistan. The strike, which killed a top al Qaeda operative who was suspected of having been a key player in the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole, also heralds a new phase of Bush administration's anti-terrorism strategy.

And it is likely that as the U.S. military reconfigures itself for the war on terrorism, tools like the unmanned strike drone will be used increasingly for precision attacks against al Qaeda targets.

The RQ-1A Predator used in last weekend's attack was not originally designed to carry weapons. Built for the Air Force primarily as a surveillance platform, the Predator carries an array of sensors that help war planners see deep into the battlefield without endangering manned spy planes or launching risky reconnaissance missions with special operations commandos.

The drone can take off from a standard 5,000 foot runway and fly for up to 24 hours, controlled by an Air Force-trained pilot sitting in a portable camouflage box about the size of a shipping container. Looking into a TV monitor and flying the vehicle with a joy stick from miles away, the pilot can see a wide swath of land from as high as 25,000 feet. When the pilot sees a target--day or night--he can have the data transmitted in real-time to target planners on the ground or even to manned strike aircraft in the air.

But the prop-plane's builder, General Atomics, designed the Predator with two underwing pylons that can carry a 450-pound payload. In February 2001, the Air Force decided to see if the drone could carry and fire a missile with only slight modifications. The experiment, conducted in the southwest desert, worked, piquing the CIA's interest, which prompted the incorporation of the anti-tank Hellfire missile-equipped Predator into the Agency's covert arsenal.

Then September 11 intervened and the drone was put to work on terrorist targets.

CIA Predator pilots reportedly used the drone in Afghanistan to destroy a vehicle suspected of carrying Mullah Mohammed Omar and to kill a group of men, one of which they thought was Osama bin Laden. These strikes missed their mark. But the attack drones of the future likely won't.

Both the Navy and the Air Force are well on their way to fielding stealthy attack drones, called unmanned combat aerial vehicles, or UCAVs. These new planes will be faster, smarter and more capable than the Predator system, which was not originally designed to carry weapons. When the new UCAVs come into service, the drones could be pre-programmed for their strikes rather than flown remotely by a pilot in a trailer and strikes will be launched with one controller overseeing the operations of several drones at once.

They will be armed with several miniature GPS-guided bombs and will be able to stealthily evade radar and anti-aircraft missiles, returning to base to be re-armed and launched for another attack.

As America pursues terrorists around the globe--particularly in countries that don't want to host a large U.S. force--keep an eye out for more strikes like the one recently in Yemen. Our new silent robot stalkers from the sky are likely to play a more and more significant role as Operation Enduring Freedom moves on.

Christian Lowe is a staff writer for Army Times Publishing in Washington, D.C.

























<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/Heck1.gif>

"You want lite music? Go and stand in a fu*king elevator"!

[TheMojoPin]

There's already a thread on this AND he posted a full article.

THIS is the manchild we want spearheading the letter campaign?

SMOOCHES!

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-9-02 @ 1:11 AM

[ADF]

That's great and all, but why does it have to be Arab scum and not just scum in general. I know you don't mean it this way, but the title of your thread makes it sound like all Arabs are scum. Still, it's pretty cool.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/floater.gif>
Ho! Ho! Ho! Merry Xmas!

[TheMojoPin]

Why haven't we been using these things before? There's a few heavily guarded milita compounds out west that could use a few good pounds of something that goes "BLAMMO!"

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Dave from Queens]

Al Dukes...you mean there are some good arabs?

Utopia Banished, Melodic Death from NY!!!!
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/428/utopia-banished.html

[The Blowhard]

THIS is the manchild we want spearheading the letter campaign?



Hey Beavis, don't make me smack you.
And ADF, killings Arabs is the current flavor of the year. If Canadians crashed into our towers I would suggest we bomb Toronto.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/Heck1.gif>

"You want lite music? Go and stand in a fu*king elevator"!

[TheMojoPin]

Hey Beavis

"Hey, I'm cool, I'm hip!"

Heck, you're the best.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Beretta9mm92FS]

if you ask me, i say drop that fucker......twice, sir!!!

[digger7106]

OK LETS PRETEND I'AM A NEW SILENT ROBOT STALKER FROM THE SKY, AND YOUR MY SILENT ROBOT STALKER FROM THE SKY SERVENT.noooo! i'am the one that says things . no just kiddin any thing that takes our men out of the line of fire is great . besides our service men and women need vidio games also

[digger7106]

but why does it have to be arab scum and not just scum in general.

when does all the P.C. bullshit end ,we all know who pullin this terrorist shit, and it's been going unchecked for to long .it's time to push back





This message was edited by Gvac on 11-9-02 @ 9:54 AM

[DarkHippie]

yes, it's good to take our soliders out of the line of fire.

no, its not good to be firing missles into countries we're not at war with.

Would we even consider doing this to say, Germany, if members of Al Qaeda were hiding there (and there are)?

why are extradition laws being ignored? Even with Panama, we actually had to invade, and that was after exhausting all other options. This administration's foreign policy is to bully other countries into submission, and to expect them to love us for it.

No wonder they resent us so.

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/darkhippie.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[Drudge Jr.]

this is another case of shoot first ask questions later

[center]
<img src="http://drudgejr.com/ronfezsig.GIF">

[SuperDave]

No wonder they resent us so.


Yeah, but who out there really cares if a country that's poorer, weaker, more immoral, dirtier, less advanced, and so far away resents us. I don't. If you do raise your hand.


Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card? It's finally in my wallet!!!! Yay!!!**

[DarkHippie]

Yeah, but who out there really cares if a country that's poorer, weaker, more immoral, dirtier, less advanced, and so far away resents us. I don't. If you do raise your hand.
If that was sarcasm, I commend you, if it wasn't . . . I want you to read your statement, and my statement very closely, and hopefully you will understand why I am laughing my ass off.

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/darkhippie.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

This message was edited by DarkHippie on 11-9-02 @ 1:09 PM

[GodsFavoriteMan]

Here's a wacky idea! How about we invest money in finding other sources of energy so that we can stop depending on foreign oil?? Ooh wait, or is Japan doing that for us?

<IMG SRC="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/godsfavoriteman/images/stan%20copy.jpg">

The third sign of the Apocalypse

[CaptClown]

yes, it's good to take our soliders out of the line of fire.

I agree

no, its not good to be firing missles into countries we're not at war with.

That is what the CIA and every other espionage agency in the world do, they do sneaky under-handed stuff in the national interest of the respective countries.

Would we even consider doing this to say, Germany, if members of Al Qaeda were hiding there (and there are)?
If Germany wasn't making an effort to find them, then yes we probably would.

why are extradition laws being ignored? Even with Panama, we actually had to invade, and that was after exhausting all other options.
How can you even be sure that a request for extradition wasn't made and ignored? The only real power some countries think they have is to thumb their nose at the larger more powerful countries.
This administration's foreign policy is to bully other countries into submission, and to expect them to love us for it.
And the previous administrations foreign policy was all that great? I still don't see peace in Northern Ireland. The North Koreans pretty much broke the Framework Agreement before the ink was dry on it. Arafat has always talked out of both sides of his face and the previous admin trusted him to make peace while he was encouraging terrorism. At least the current admin is making an effort not to be taken as chumps.
No wonder they resent us so.

And to make that worse is they will be over here S'ing the collective US' D' should they get into trouble or need some cash like a crack whore looking for her next hit.


Director of the C.Y.A. Society.
Field Marshal of the K.I.S.S. Army

This message was edited by CaptClown on 11-9-02 @ 1:45 PM

[Megadeth]

Super Dave is a genius.

DarkHippie's weak response is explained by his screen name

[TheMojoPin]

DarkHippie's weak response is explained by his screen name

Megadeth's wasted breath is demonstrated for all to see by the hilariousness of his screen name.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[SuperDave]

To avoid future confusion I will clearly indicate any use of sarcasm. For reference sake, my last post was not sarcastic.


Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card? It's finally in my wallet!!!! Yay!!!**

[DarkHippie]

DarkHippie's weak response is explained by his screen name
strong words from a man who posted about how he wanted to join the military, but was going to wait until this whole war in Iraq was over.

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/darkhippie.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[ChickenHawk]

There's not a lot to argue
about here folks. Terrorists
were killed. As long as
you're a human being,
that's a good thing.
Someone involved with the
killing of 3,000 people and
the Twin Towers is dead...
good. There's nothing to
debate here. War on Iraq?
Debatable. Elimination of 6
killers? Not debatable.


<IMG SRC="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/chickenhawk.jpg">

"And I think a guy's dropping mud on 12, so don't look up." -Ron

[TheMojoPin]

Elimination of 6
killers? Not debatable.

Nah, Hippie's just saying we shouldn't be throwing these things anywhere we want down the line. Y'know, like if we find out there are terrorists in Italy, and instead of notifying the authorities and working with them to take them down by any mean necessary, we just launch an unmaned bomb-plane into their country. Could be messy, that's all.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[DarkHippie]

what it comes down to is that as Americans, we can't get over the fact that we believe we have the right to chase our enemies anywhere on the globe regardless of international law and regardless of how many new enemies it makes us. This is not the way to create good feelings, people!! and it all stems from the fact that we think that we are superior to every other nation out there (who wants to be friends with someone who thinks less of you anyway?)

If we want peace, the first thing that we have to do is to get over ourselves! what makes you think that we are superior to anyone else? Is it our Education system? don't try to make me laugh, you'll only make me cry. Is it our Health Care system? what health care system? Is it because it's such a safe country to live in? there are over 10,000 deaths by guns a year here, compared to less than 60 in Japan. Is it because of our government? You act like there are no free countries left in the world besides us.

I know, then it must be because we have all of the bombs, and all of the money. that's why we're better. So we've got the muscle, we've got the cash, and we've got the arrogance, do you know what that makes us? that makes us the antagonist from every john cusack movie made during the 80's. we're the one that they love to hate, and not because we have money or muscle, but because we're assholes about it.

We have to change, and I'm talking to every single one of you. Put away childish things. accept the fact that even though someone may not live down the street from you, he is still your equal, for Once you think less of someone, he becomes greater than you.


<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/darkhippie.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[TheMojoPin]

This is not the way to create good feelings, people!!

Don't sugarcoat it. People need to stop being idiots. If America was suddenly the only country in the world, we'd die. Plain and simple. Wise the fuck up.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[ChickenHawk]

Wait, I'm not getting
something. Are you saying
it would've been better off to
have respected
"international law" over their
lifeless desert area and
NOT had 6 terrorists dead
now? I think this event is
exactly what defines the
"War on Terror". Terrorists
were sucessfully killed, and
no one else was hurt. What
more could you want?


<IMG SRC="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/chickenhawk.jpg">

"And I think a guy's dropping mud on 12, so don't look up." -Ron

[DarkHippie]

I think this event is
exactly what defines the
"War on Terror".
Unfortunately, you are absolutely right.

Even Police need a warrant before searching a house and they certainly can't execute a person on the spot, no matter what their crime

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/darkhippie.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[ChickenHawk]

But admit it... do these
people deserve anything
less than execution?
They're fucking terrorists.


<IMG SRC="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/chickenhawk.jpg">

"And I think a guy's dropping mud on 12, so don't look up." -Ron

[TheMojoPin]

But admit it... do these
people deserve anything
less than execution?
They're fucking terrorists.

We're not questiong the guilt of the terrorists. We're repeatedly and openly question when and where the millitary and the government think they can use this weapon. You're trying to twist the issue, but it won't work.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

What
more could you want?

Assurance that this kind of technology won't be misused. This case should be used as example of how to perform one of these strikes correctly. Let's hope the track record stays up to par.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Gvac]

It's a thing of beauty, this Predator. And did you see the pics of the truck it demolished? Nothing left of it or the terrorist aboard! Nothing but cinders!

I love it!

http://www.thaitechnics.com/aircraft/tg2/uav_predator.gif

<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/iwantu.jpg>

[Gvac]

Oh and Hippie, no one ever said the United States wanted to be the only country on the planet...we just want the world to know we will not apologize for being #1 and will not take shit from anybody.

And take a good look at the results of the election last Tuesday...the majority of Americans are waking up (about fucking time) and realizing that socialism has no place here. Gun control and Federalized health care are not what this country is about. If it's what you like, go live in Canada or another country where socialism is the way of life and see how you like giving 50-60% of your income to the government so you can have "free" health care.

Insanity.

<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/iwantu.jpg>

[ChickenHawk]

OH NO! They forgot to put
windows on the cockpit!
How will the robots be able
to see where they're
going!?


<IMG SRC="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/chickenhawk.jpg">

"And I think a guy's dropping mud on 12, so don't look up." -Ron

[DarkHippie]

Oh and Hippie, no one ever said the United States wanted to be the only country on the planet...we just want the world to know we will not apologize for being #1 and will not take shit from anybody.
Exhibit A: your average red-blooded American . . . completely missing the point of everything that I just said! There is no such thing as #1!!! One group of people is not better than another group of people! Everyone is equal regardless of where they live, unless you are a snob who thinks that a person's address decides their worth, and I certainly hope that you are not that kind of person. by believing that America is #1, you automatically demean the rest of the world's population.

And gvac, I really expected something better from you than "why don't you go to Canada" I live here because this is my home, and I intend to make it a better place.
I am a Patriot, not a Pawn.

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/darkhippie.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[TheMojoPin]

How will the robots be able
to see where they're
going!?

X-ray vision. It's a package deal with the laser-eyes. D'uh.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

If by majority you mean about 51%-48%. Because about all you get there is a technicality.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Gvac]

We are indeed the #1 country in the world when it comes to economy, way of life, opportunity, and fairness to its citizens. I didn't say we were better people, but our way of life sure is.

I also didn't say "go live in Canada"...I said if you think socialism is something you like, go live where it's the way of life and see how you like it. Big difference.

Sometimes what seems nice and safe and comfortable really isn't what it's cracked up to be. A country where the government controls the income of its citizens, their health care, their ability to defend themselves and what type of businesses they can run and how they can run them is a terrifying thought to me.

If this is what you really desire, are you sure you're not a pawn?





<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/iwantu.jpg>

[Mr Self Destruct]

A country where the government controls the income of its citizens, their health care, their ability to defend themselves and what type of businesses they can run and how they can run them is a terrifying thought to me.



I don't know. I think the world functions better with a few dictators and commies running amok. That makes the fight b/w godd and evil clearcut. No gray area.


Hey Hippie is that Spider-man in your sigpic? He looks odd. Did you draw that?

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/vicious675/myhomepage/0.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US" ALT="F all you Nazi Mods" >

[ChickenHawk]

That's not SpiderMan, that's
an actual photograph of
DarkHippie himself.


<IMG SRC="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/chickenhawk.jpg">

"And I think a guy's dropping mud on 12, so don't look up." -Ron

[Yerdaddy]

The risks of using a weapon like this, especially in the Arab world, is that we will adopt the tactics of Israel in our "war on terrorism." In the current intefada period in the occupied territories of Palestine Israel has killed more than 40 bystanders, half of whom were children, in these targeted attacks on suspected terrorists. On at least 3 occasions, Israel fired missiles at a car or a house, killing innocents, only to find out afterward that the person they were targeting was not in the house or vehicle. Even when the suspected terrorist is killed it is an "extrajudicial execution" meaning that instead of arresting and presenting evidence of a crime or terrorist involvement, the suspect was killed instead. That is a violation of international law, and for good reason. The principle of innocent until proven guilty does not exist only in America - it is the law in most countries, and the countries that don't respect it are condemned by the United States and countries that do. In fact, repect for the rule of law is what separates the free world from the terrorists.

Israel's use of these tactics have not made Israelis any safer. It is the indescriminate killing of Palestinians, (which is consistently three times the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians), that is always cited as the reason for Palestinians joining militant organizations or carrying out suicide bombings.

If the United States begins to use extrajudicial executions as a means of fighting terrorism, it needs to use them only when arrest of the individuals is deemed extraordinarily dangerous for law-enforcement or military personnel, when innocent civilians are not at risk, when overwhelming evidence of terrorist activities by the targets has been accumulated, and when the United States is prepared to make that evidence available to the public and the governments involved.

If we don't take these steps before using these tactics, then we will be adding one more propaganda tool to the terrorist's recruiting efforts. How can we say that blowing people up is morally superior to terrorism when the only difference is that our bombs are fired from unmanned vehicles and theirs are strapped to their bodies, loaded into trucks or in the fuel tanks of airplanes, unless we show that our targets are not innocent and that bystanders are not expendable "colateral damage"?

So while I'm not outraged by this attack, I'm concearned about the tactics used. So far the war on terrorism has involved rooting these people out with the cooperation of the world's law enforcement agencies, cutting off their funding and political support, and by expressing to the world the differences between us and them. Using extrajudicial executions as a tactic undermines the other tactics that have gained us the support of the world and put hundreds of these fuckers in jail and put the rest on the run. It needs to be a last resort only.

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigruby.jpg" >
It was a joke goddammit!

[CaptClown]

1.) The US is in Yemen conducting operations like this with the Consent and Authorization of the Yemeni government and people. Notice they aren't complaining in the least.

2.) Israel has made repeated requests for extradition, which I might add were ignored. Can't really have a trial when the defendant is out of the country to defend himself against his accusers now can you?
3.) Being proud of your country is not a crime. If it was we would have executed the French along time ago.

4.) That is Deadpool in Hippie's sig.

5.)What about the 50,000 Palestinians Jordan killed? Or the fact that Amal and the Lebanese Christians committed the atrocities in Sabra and Shatilla while Sharon watched. Oh wait, that doesn't count since Israel didn't do it. People seem to always forget Arab attrocities when they are committed by other Arabs.

6.) In France and a lot of other countries you are guilty until proven innocent or have enough cash to buy your innocence. So if you are poor and in one of those countries you are pretty much screwed anyway.


Director of the C.Y.A. Society.
Field Marshal of the K.I.S.S. Army

[Meatball]

Yerdaddy
you really have to be on drugs to believe anyone here will buy into your " Evil Israel - poor innocent palestinian" rhetoric we so often hear from you..
its simply garbage - go see the other 10 posts that prove this.
israel is at war with a hate mongering race of people who want nothing more than israel destroyed..and it reborn as an arab nation. This simply wont happen. Israel has killed some civilians in her fight for freedom from terror. there was simply no other way. Israel has bent over backwards to honor the humanity of her enemy at her own peril. Every poster here knows..that if the arabs had israel as her own, and jews where in the territories commiting terroristic acts..the jews of those territories wouldnt be alive the next morning.



This message was edited by mortician on 11-10-02 @ 8:42 PM

[Gvac]

Mortician, I couldn't have said it better myself.

You're wasting your breath, though. Some people actually believe the tripe coming out of Arafat's mouth and all the logic you throw at them is meaningless.

<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/iwantu.jpg>

[Meatball]

Courtesy of www.nationalreview.com <P>
The accidental deaths of a number of Palestinian children resulting from the Israeli strike against the building in which Hamas terror leader Salah Shehadeh took refuge in the middle of Gaza City was a tragic error. But from the chorus, composed of the self-styled "international community" -- the U.N., the media, human-rights NGOs, and European desk-wise diplomats -- Israel's efforts to defend itself constitute a moral crime of the gravest magnitude. If anyone needed further evidence of the ethical depravity of this chorus, these condemnations provide it.

In the feeding frenzy, the obvious fact that this accident would have been avoided if Palestinian terrorists did not choose to seek refuge in densely populated areas is being conveniently ignored. While portrayed as a deliberate assault against civilians, the strike against Shehadeh was a defensive exercise from Israel, as it continues to try to defend the lives of its citizens. The mistake that led to the civilian deaths was a tactical one: using a one-ton bomb, rather than a smaller and more precise weapon.

Acting with pathetic predictably, many journalists reporting from Gaza (and the diplomats that echo these myths) have entirely ignored the reasons behind the Israeli decision -- the evil perpetrated by Shehadeh and other terrorists living in Arafat's realm. In sharp contrast to this moral outrage, during the past two years, the Palestinian mass terror campaign has been based entirely on deliberate attacks designed to kill Israeli children. And yet, for most of this period, Europe and the rest of the trendy "international community" has sided with the murderers and condemned the hundreds of victims.

The inability to distinguish between aggressors, who show no concern for human life, and the defenders, whose goal is to preserve the sanctity of these lives, constitutes the fundamental moral failure of our time. The same chorus kicked in automatically when allied bombs went astray in the war against Saddam Hussein (i.e. when civilians housed below a military facility were killed); in Serbia in the effort to defend Kosovo against Milosevic; and again in Afghanistan following bin Laden's mega-terror attacks on September 11. President Bush's uncharacteristic decision to join the condemnation of Israel was transparent and ill-advised, coming a few weeks after an American attack that went wrong in Afghanistan, killing dozens of wedding guests. In each of these cases, the moral burden of the loss of innocent lives falls directly on the terrorists and their supporters, including those who provide ideological support, funds, and cover.

At the same time, the U.N. and its loyal allies among NGO superpowers such as Human Rights Watch have clearly learned nothing from their embarrassment in Jenin, which exposed their eagerness to join the Palestinian propaganda campaign to demonize Israel. In the case of Jenin, the Israeli military was condemned for taking risks (that cost the 23 Israeli soldiers their lives) by using ground forces to destroy the terrorist network that sought immunity in the U.N.-run refugee camps. In contrast, when the Israeli Air Force was sent to strike at the Hamas leader in Gaza, the chorus did not skip a beat. In other words, whatever Israel does and however it acts to prevent terrorism, condemnation will surely follow.

Indeed, these groups quickly exploited the tragedy in Gaza, in order to erase the memories of the false cries of "massacre" and "war crimes," and of their eager repetition of Palestinian lies. The macabre scene of U.N. representative Terje Larsen, running from studio to studio and repeatedly referring to "the stench of death" from the massacre in Jenin that never happened, is being repeated. And with predictability, U.N. human-rights czar Mary Robinson condemned Israeli immorality, less than a year after she presided over the U.N.'s Durban fiasco -- a festival of gratuitous Israel-bashing and anti-Semitism under the false guise of anti-racism. These groups or individuals have failed to

[Yerdaddy]

My reference to Israel in this thread is as an example of the risks of implimenting this kind of anti-terror methods. I've never been anti-Israel. I end up arguing against pro-Israel people such as you, but you can't show me where I have made anti-Israeli statements or cited partisan sources of information. (If you want to make the accusations or label me biased then you dig up my past posts and prove your point.) I don't agree with Israel's tactics or policies. I don't think they are going to bring peace to the region or provide for Israel's security in the long or short-term. I also don't agree with the policies of the PLA or terrorists organizations, (so if anyone wants to accuse me of following Arafat, they need to back it up). My only concearn is with the interests of ordinary Israeli and Palestinian people, the majority of which only want to live in peace. My sources are not biased sources of information that are ideologically based, steeped in oversimplification, selected facts, anecdotes or empty rhetoric, like your National Review article. I don't think I've ever cited any sources on Israel except the US State Department Human Rights Report or the Mitchell Report on the current intifada. If you want to label the State Department as a part of a vast liberal pro-Arab propaganda machine then you've got bigger problems than this discussion to deal with.

So if you want to paint me as Anti-Israel, back it up or shut up. Because in your own post making your accusations you include the same racist accusations that you accuse me of, ("hate mongering race"). Somehow you seem to feel that it's wrong to be biased against Israel but right to be biased against Arabs. Think that way if you want. Choose sides and defend your side to the end. I'm not interested in doing that, and I'm not going to be dragged into it.

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigruby.jpg" >
It was a joke goddammit!

[Cybersoldier]

As long as were getting these terrorist sobs, I'm happy

<IMG SRC="http://cybersoldier.iwarp.com/images/locutusb.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

People want the world to be in simple, easily defined black and white terms. It's not. ANY country responding to terrorist attacks with what essentially equal their OWN terrorist attacks solve nothing, and just make the odds of retaliation even more likely.

Now, to clear things up for those that will invariably put words into my mouth again...

This is NOT to say that nations like America and Israel should not respond with severe and drestructive retaliation. Just do it right. People love to brag how scary awesome America is in this thread, and we are. We've got the most sophisticated millitary in the world. Let's put those resources to work, instead of just indiscrimately bobming the wrong people.

The latest attack with the drone bomb is what I'm talking about: doing things right. The target was confirmed and destroyed without endangering the local population. Mission accomplished and a job well done. But doing something like Israel does half the time just makes you as bad as the terrorists.

Oh, and Israel isn't America jr. or anything, so you don't have to pretend like they're right 100% of the time. We already do that enough with Saudi Arabia.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[RusticSoul]

wee wee wee wee boring


Another i hate you because you dont agree with what i say thread

[SuperDave]

Quoth the Hippie
there are over 10,000 deaths by guns a year here, compared to less than 60 in Japan

To which I reply,
That's lovely. Move there. Get searched at will. But wait, that's illegal search and seizure! I'm sorry, illegal search and seizure is an American ideal. Evidence found in an illegal search is admissible in Japanese courts. Sounds like a lovely place to live.




Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card? It's finally in my wallet!!!! Yay!!!**

[SuperDave]

Oh, about the US not being #1... Eff You!!!!!!!!

You think all the imigrants coming into this country are here to see Disney world???


Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card? It's finally in my wallet!!!! Yay!!!**

[IRISjr]

my dad showed me that, it's so wierd how the gov. denied it for 8 years, then when they retired it just said "ya we had it."

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<marquee>but IRIS jr probably doesn't</marquee>

<marquee>SAVE RON AND FEZ 4 FUTURE GENERATIONS!!!</marquee>

[TheMojoPin]

Oh, about the US not being #1... Eff You!!!!!!!!

Now you're just making things up.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[DarkHippie]

Oh, about the US not being #1... Eff You!!!!!!!!
Ahhh, now there's an intelligent, well thought out argument. I don't know how I can argue with that . . .

Maybe by speaking realllll slowwww:

1)Do you believe in America? I do
2)One of the most sacred documents of America, and one that I hold very closely to my heart, states that "all men are created equal" though I think in these modern times we can update it to "all people."
3)America is comprised not of guns or money, but of people. that is the soul of our country.
4) Every country in the world is comprised of people.
5)Let me restate, in case you missed it the first time, ALL PEOPLE ARE CREATED EQUAL!
6)Now here's the kicker: If all people are created equal, and all countries (including ours) are comprised of people, then ALL COUNTRIES ARE EQUAL! THERE IS NO #1 WHEN EVERYONE IS ON THE SAME LEVEL WITH EACH OTHER



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<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
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This message was edited by DarkHippie on 11-11-02 @ 12:26 PM

[TheMojoPin]

They way modern day "patriots" talk, you'd think America looks like one of those glossed-up, computer-generated Pen & Pixel rap album covers that were so huge in the late 90's. But of course, without all those brown people. And more guns.

<img src=http://www.penandpixel.com/images/5_inch/before_010115/snoop.gif>

<img src=http://www.penandpixel.com/images/5_inch/before_010115/poboy.gif>

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[SuperDave]

One of the most sacred documents of America, and one that I hold very closely to my heart, states that "all men are created equal"


Read farther into said document and you'll find "that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these ends (LIFE, liberty and the persuit of happiness), it is the right of the People (represented by our elected government) to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." If the all men are created equal relates to men not of our country, then the abolishing does too. If you can read into it what ypou want, so can I. Blow the fuckers up!

I bet you're the type who thinks the second ammendment applies to state rights, not individual rights, aren't you?




Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card? It's finally in my wallet!!!! Yay!!!**

[SuperDave]

Read this.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61527-2001Oct3.html



Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card? It's finally in my wallet!!!! Yay!!!**

[DarkHippie]

Read farther into said document and you'll find "that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these ends (LIFE, liberty and the persuit of happiness), it is the right of the People (represented by our elected government) to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government."
Interesting point, except that by "blowing the fuckers up" you take away their right to life, liberty, and persuit of happiness. unless you don't believe they deserve those rights, since you don't believe that they are our equals.

Or you might assume that by instituting a new government for them, or even by giving them our assistance, will make their lives better. for example, we have a huge military, why don't we loan some of it to countries who need help? But if I remember my history correctly, one of the major gripes leading to the Revolutionary War was that citizens were forced to house british soliders. But can you blame the red coats? they were just "protecting their interests." Does that familiar? It should, because one of the major gripes that other countries has against us is our omnipresent military. But we're just "protecting our interests."

We have to stop acting like we rule the world. Nobody likes the boss, they only suck up to him and curse his name when he's not looking

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/darkhippie.gif>
<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[Mr Self Destruct]

We have to stop acting like we rule the world.


I know! Stop the acting and just take it over already. Enough waiting for some schmucks to realize the dark ages are over.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/vicious675/myhomepage/0.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US" ALT="F all you Nazi Mods" >

[Captain Rooster]

Wow, this debate is not about UAVs - I wonder why.



<CENTER><img src=http://ltrooster.homestead.com/files/WolvieLetterSIG.jpg><center>
<center>

[schmega]

i cant wait til these badboys can broadcast what they shoot. nothing better than seeing an arab flail his shit-stained hands while running for his life.

[Gvac]

They way modern day "patriots" talk, you'd think America looks like one of those glossed-up, computer-generated Pen & Pixel rap album covers that were so huge in the late 90's. But of course, without all those brown people. And more guns.


I am a conservative precisely because I am neither a racist or an elitist. While liberals think minorities would be helpless without their "compassion", conservatives think all people, regardless of race or religion, are capable of greatness. We want nothing more than for people to be judged on the content of their character and not the color of their skin. (Hey, that sounds pretty good. Did someone else say that?)

I'm sick and tired of liberals labeling us as "racist" merely because we believe minorities are capable of great things, and don't need "government cheese" and handouts.

Many of my heroes in conservatism are black men, in fact. Check out the editorial writings of Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams - two brilliant men. J.C. Watts was an incredible Congressman and has just written a book. And C. Mason Weaver, a black conservative talk show host in California (and a Vietnam Vet) wrote an incredible book a few years ago entitled "It's OK To Leave The Plantation." In the book he parallells the way plantation owners coaxed many blacks to stay after the Civil War. They told them "Sure, you're free. But who's going to hire YOU? Stay here, at least I give you room, board, and feed you."

Kinda like welfare, isn't it? It's an insult to anyone to tell them they can't live without your handouts and to never let them go achieve greatness.

To think your way is more "compassionate" is farcical. To call me or any conservative a racist is asinine. I want nothing more than for EVERYONE to be as successful as possible.

<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/heyyousig.gif>

[CaptClown]

Wow, this debate is not about UAVs - I wonder why.



Your guess is as good as mine, Caped Crusader.

Director of the C.Y.A. Society.
Field Marshal of the K.I.S.S. Army

[BrooklynLiveCam]

When we're done....let's please not forget to wipe out the Muslim religion. It is nothing more than a terrorist and hate filled religion.

www.brooklynlivecam.com

[mario]

Well no, brooklynlivecam. You cant just go around killing those people. We need the bean pies to stay around a little longer. Just imagine the world without that religion. It'll be a sudden rise in porkbellies, bacon, and no more of the incense they sell at the corner of every red light in the world. Let's dont be so harsh on the poor people. How else can we disguise the weed smoke in the dormitory without that little stick you burn? Kill 'em all and watch 'em fall screaming....

I only love Fast cars and pretty women. Or is it pretty cars and fast women??

[TheMojoPin]

I'm sick and tired of liberals labeling us as "racist" merely because we believe minorities are capable of great things, and don't need "government cheese" and handouts.

I'm suddenly sick and tired of people apparently deciding that "patriots" automatically means "conservatives". I'm talking about nouveau "patriots" in general, who don't just support and love their country, but preach NOTHING but violence and degrade any person that's different from their view of what an American should be. And specifically, I was thinking of this douche I work with. But in terms of this thread, it's directed only and very firmly at the awful little goons who can only contribute one-liners about "bombing them all". I'm fucking sick of it, it's NOT American, it's simply moronic. Their comments are not patriotic, they're simply idiotic, hateful and racist. It's not a matter of not being "PC", it's simply a matter of not being an uneducated asshole.

This war is necessary. The people killed in the drone strike are our enemies, and they got what they deserved. 'Nuff said.
There was absolutely no reason for you to take my comments personally. If those that I'm targeting tend to have so-called "conservative" views, so be it. Lotta liberals saying a lot of stupid, stupid things as well. It's just the one's who shield their insane stupidity behind a shield of "patriotism" that drive me nuts.

I have no problem with conservatives. I have problems with specific social issues, racism in particular. And these sorta threads are rampant with it, and the stains that are spewing it unfortunately also often claim to be conservative, or share conservative viewpoints, and thusly they degrade the entire conservative politcal force.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/mojopin.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and Minister of Bloody Mayhem.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."



This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-12-02 @ 1:47 AM

[SuperDave]

unless you don't believe they deserve those rights

Damn right i don't believe they don't deserve those rights. We're talking about self defense and self preservation here. You take a pot shot at me and you're damn straight i'll come back and smack you upside the head. Hey, maybe instead of dropping bombs on them, we should drop coppies of the Declaration of Independence on them. That way they will realize they infringed on our rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. They'll realize the error of their ways. They'll all say i'm sorry and start pressing wild flowers in the name of Allah instead of murdering people. We can all sit down in the desert and have a big happy sing along and no one will ever be bad again and we can all throw all the guns and bombs into the ocean and everyone will be happy and then we'll take them all out for ice cream!
What exactly do you propose we do? Chase al Qaeda to the borders of Afghanistan then stop? Then what, wait for them to come back? Try and trick them maybe? Hide be hind some rocks and call their names? "Candy-gram for al Qaeda!" Lawmakers don't win wars. Nice happy thoughts don't win wars. Wariors win wars. End of story.


Sorry, I'll sit down now.
**Upgrade your grey matter, cuz someday it may matter.**
**Where the hell is my Big Ass Card? It's finally in my wallet!!!! Yay!!!**

[Mr Self Destruct]

It is nothing more than a terrorist and hate filled religion.


Aren't they all?
I wish a charismatic agnostic would become president or prime minister. If religion were abolished tomorrow, the world would improve.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/vicious675/myhomepage/0.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US" ALT="F all you Nazi Mods" >

[Patches]

Let me restate, in case you missed it the first time, ALL PEOPLE ARE CREATED EQUAL!


Poppycock! All AMERICANS are created equal. The rest of you can go F yourselves.

Our founding fathers would have loved this stuff. The original GW (George Washington) was a tough sumbitch who didn't take no gruff. He would be mo' than willing to blow the hell outta Arab scum. Hell, I'm surprised Franklin didn't think up that Predator thing first.

If the above makes any sense to you, I suggest you see a doctor.

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The Batches...Shady's back, back again. (7-3, most points overall)
"The way I hear it, Patches is some kind of butcher. A pitiless, psycho, fucked-up butcher."