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Horde King and G.W.: What's The Deal? [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

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The Blowhard
01-09-2003, 02:10 PM
HK: I know how strongly you despise the President and to be honest I think he's mediocre at best. But, do you think that Gore would be doing a better job? And if not Gore, who should be President if you had the power to choose?
This should be good. :)

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This message was edited by Heckler on 1-9-03 @ 6:15 PM

Death Metal Moe
01-09-2003, 04:10 PM
Gore is the embodiment of a Piece of SHIT.

I'm SO GLAD he lost. Nice beard, deek.

All you Bush haters need to suck it.

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JerseyRich
01-09-2003, 04:13 PM
All you Bush haters need to suck it.


I try to suck Bush as often as possible.

I honestly don't think there will be any cadidates that will even be any competition for GW in the next election...
Where's Ross Perot these days?

He's always good for a laugh.

<img src=http://home.ix.netcom.com/~camman/_uimages/2003Sig.gif>
I'd like an order of UH UH!With a side of some UH UH!

Reephdweller
01-09-2003, 04:18 PM
I love the bush. Bush has been good to me.



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TheMojoPin
01-09-2003, 08:13 PM
I'm gonna hop downtown and egg the White House, just for kicks. And you should see the majestic t.p. violation I'll enact on the Washington Monument. Glorious.

Those presidents are lucky they're Masons...that way they don't mind waking up each morning and seeing what essentially amounts to a giant stone boner sticking out of the ground in your backyard.

And as for Bush and Gore...is there really a difference? The country sure didn't seem to think so...at the end of each four years, only the names change, but the game stays sadly the same. Foofers.

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/hey%20you.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-10-03 @ 12:18 AM

The Blowhard
01-10-2003, 01:17 PM
I'm gonna hop downtown and egg the White House, just for kicks


I think it's against the law to even joke about egging the White House. Expect a few clicks on your phoneline and a knock on the door in a few hours.

<img src=http://ltrooster.homestead.com/files/EverybodyLovesHeckSIG.gif>

TheMojoPin
01-10-2003, 02:28 PM
I think it's against the law to even joke about egging the White House. Expect a few clicks on your phoneline and a knock on the door in a few hours.

*NOTICE* Citizen designate "TheMojoPin" has been "relocated" for precautionary personal "embetterment". That is all. Go about your business. Nothing to see here. ***END TRANSMISSION***

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

ChickenHawk
01-10-2003, 03:51 PM
All you Bush haters
need to suck it.
Oohhh!! Moe told Horde
King to suck it! I sense
tension!

sorry, I just enjoy
instigating... I agree
actually. But we knew that,
cuz Moe speaks for me
politically.


SIGNATURE PENDING

HordeKing1
01-10-2003, 09:49 PM
The reason I despise Bush is because he is the personification of the dumbing down of America to it's lowest common denomenator. (Not surprising for the former governor of a state that ranked 49th in standardized education tests).

He is not only a fool but he's anti-intellectual. People who can speak polysyllabicaly frighten him. No wonder. Most times he's tried to say a "big word," he mangles its prononciation or simply creates a new word, or just sounds ridiculous.

Today's Bush quote from the NY Daily News (2/19/2000) is "I understand small business growth. I was one." (Sigh). Actually Bush ran 2 corporations - into ruin.

I also despise him for his attempts to force his right wing views on everyone. From cutting federal funding to agencies whose health policies covered abortion, to seeking to ban stem cell research, (which I'm sure he has no clue about), to cutting welfare funding to single parents (who need it the most) reflects this.

I dispise his failure to act. He's good at making vaguely threatening speeches (albiet ones that sound comical b/c of his mispronounciations), but he just doesn't follow through. He's talked up the war against terrorism, but hasn't delivered on his rehtoric. I suppose that's because he manages to find ways to ally the US with terrorist states such as Saudi Arabia. He talked big against North Korea and their nukelear (his pronounciation) program, and their threat as part of the axis of evil, but didn't have any problems allowing them to sell scud missles to Yemin. Remember the Cole? Remember the anti-US sentiment expressed there to this day? Bush doesn't.

I could go on about Bush and his ineffectual, inconsistent, silly ramblings, and his transparant effect to buy the next election with a tax cut for the wealthy, but you asked specifically my opinon about Gore.

Make no mistake - Gore was a terrible candidate. But he was at least an intelligent man, and intelligent people have at least a chance of learning. Bush's pitiful intellect does not present him with this opportunity. Yes I'm sure Gore would be doing a better job.

Gore was the lesser of two lousy candidates. Forgetting about Bush's lack of qualificaitions, Bush is frightening b/c of his simplistic (and extremist) views coupled with stupidity. These views are dictated by the religious right. Lieberman, Gore's running mate was even WORSE than Bush in this regard. Fanatics of any stripe are dangerous people.

Bush and the invisible man (Cheney) ran against Gore and Lieberman. It was clear that Bush would be a disaster. It was clear that Gore was the better candidate b/w the two (and the people of this country agreed). Lieberman had potential to be far worse than Bush b/c he was not a stupid man, just a nut who liked to blame movies and video games for society's problems. If Gore had been elected (well he was so rather let me say, if Bush had not stolen the presidency) Lieberman would be a non-entity like most vice presidents. His wackyness only would have become relevant if Gore had died, and the odds were greatly against this.

It's a very sad commentary on our country that Bush and Gore were the only options. If the democrats put up a halfway decent candidate, the election is in the bag. But look at who has currently announced their candidacy. Still, no matter who ends up running against Bush has my vote, not b/c of his qualification, but b/c it's a vote against Bush.

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Zestie
01-10-2003, 10:13 PM
HK:

Brilliant.

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I'm disrespectful to dirt! Can you see I am serious? Get out of my way, all of you! This is no place for loafers. Join me or die. Can you do any less?

TheMojoPin
01-11-2003, 12:26 PM
Nice job, HK.

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

BrianTheBailBondsman
01-11-2003, 01:00 PM
Puppets.. Thier all Puppets I tell ya

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ChickenHawk
01-11-2003, 01:02 PM
I dispise his failure to act. He's good at making vaguely threatening speeches (albiet ones that sound comical b/c of his mispronounciations), but he just doesn't follow through. He's talked up the war against terrorism, but hasn't delivered on his rehtoric.
<IMG SRC="http://www.itv.com/news/images/yemen_bomb_sm2.jpg">

SIGNATURE PENDING

JerseyTim
01-11-2003, 01:26 PM
The reason I despise Bush is because he is the personification of the dumbing down of America to it's lowest common denomenator. (Not surprising for the former governor of a state that ranked 49th in standardized education tests).

He is not only a fool but he's anti-intellectual. People who can speak polysyllabicaly frighten him. No wonder. Most times he's tried to say a "big word," he mangles its prononciation or simply creates a new word, or just sounds ridiculous.




Did you attempt to demonstrate the effects of Bush's anti-intellectualism by purposely misspelling "denominator," `polysyllabically," "pronunciation," "despise," "albeit," "mispronunciations," "rhetoric," "missiles," "Yemen," "transparent," "opinion," "qualifications," and "wackiness"?


Go Peacocks!
tim
|-o-| <-o-> |-o-|

This message was edited by JerseyTim on 1-11-03 @ 5:29 PM

Tall_James
01-11-2003, 01:39 PM
HK - A serious question: Have you ever voted for a Republican candidate in a local or national election? Or do you just vote along party lines?

<img src=http://users.rcn.com/jamespatton/talljames1sig.jpg>
IV
Sheepy made this sig. Thank you Sheepy.

Thebazile78
01-11-2003, 07:19 PM
Have you ever voted for a Republican candidate in a local or national election? Or do you just vote along party lines?

Both major parties are equally corrupt, in my opinion.

I voted for Ralph Nader in the last election; my reasoning being that NJ is not, and will not ever be, a "swing state" in the Electoral College, so I could match my vote to my naivete at the time.

Ralph let me down. He was a HUGE disappointment. I feel like the little kid in Eight Men Out who goes up to "Shoeless Joe" Jackson and says "Say it ain't so, Joe."

The Democrats are in a shambles due to many managerial mistakes and their current candidates are mediocre to piss-poor.

I grew up in a town where your candidate's party was Republican or Republican... so I am predisposed to be biased against the GOP in general because my options were so limited. I have voted Republican and will do so if and only if I feel that they are the least of all the presented evils. For example, I would have voted Republican in the Mayoral race in New Brunswick this past November because the (current) Mayor is one of the most corrupt Democrats I have ever had the displeasure to experience.

But, right now, all politicians are ridiculously inept slimeballs and I'm sick of them.


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<br>"If human beings stopped exercising their lips, their brains would start working" - Ford Prefect

NewYorkDragons80
01-12-2003, 02:22 PM
Ralph is another scumbag. Look into his secret mansions in the caribbean.

Perot is a little nuts, but what you see is what you get. He has no skeletons.

Most times he's tried to say a "big word," he mangles its prononciation or simply creates a new word, or just sounds ridiculous.
Shakespeare used to have the same problem.

I agree with about 80% of what Hordeking said. Bush won Florida fair and square. Does it get more fair than a Supreme Court decision? If you want to talk about the whole Electoral College mess, I think we need to throw that system out the window and start directly electing the president.

I am not a huge Bush fan, but I agree with him often enough to say that I am a Bush supporter. I am a "Goldwater Republican" so there are many things that the president and I disagree on.

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HordeKing1
01-12-2003, 03:57 PM
HK - A serious question: Have you ever voted for a Republican candidate in a local or national election? Or do you just vote along party lines?

I've NEVER voted on party lines. I vote for the better candidate (or more often for the lesser of two evils.)

<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">

Death Metal Moe
01-12-2003, 04:04 PM
But who runs the SHADOW GOVERNMENT?!?!

And I would NEVER tell Horde King to SUCK IT! And frankly Chicken Hawk, I don't appreciate you trying to put a wedge between me and Horde King.

You'll be speaking for YOURSELF politically with THAT attitude, mister.

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HordeKing1
01-12-2003, 05:04 PM
Yeah!

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KoHigh
01-12-2003, 05:16 PM
horde king talks too much, nuff said

spark it up, what are you waiting for? kohigh

HordeKing1
01-12-2003, 05:22 PM
horde king talks too much

Yep.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">

NewYorkDragons80
01-12-2003, 05:26 PM
Yep.
There he goes with that smart mouth of his.

<marquee>
"In war there is no substitute for victory." -General Douglas MacArthur "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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TheMojoPin
01-12-2003, 06:01 PM
Ralph is another scumbag. Look into his secret mansions in the caribbean.

*EDIT* Please feel free to provide articles and reports on this accusation. I tried searching Google for "Nader, corrupt, corruption, bribes, slush funds, secret, overseas accounts, mansions and theft" and found nothing except pieces by him or supporters railing against OTHER politicians.

Excuse me? Regardless of what you think he was trying to pull off in the '00 election, the man has been one of the greatest social/politcal/economic crusaders in the last 30+ years. To try and tear him down with absurd slander is, quite frankly, a ridiculous waste of time and a flat-out spiteful, pointless thing to do. He's saved countless lives with his tireless pushes to regulate the automative and transportaion industries alone. You may disagree with his style, but overall he's done his best for the COMMON American good.

And I voted for Nader not because I wanted him as president, but because I wanted the Greens to get the national funding that would allow them to take more local seats around the country. Hopefully they'd force the Demorcrats to act more like Democrats and the Republicans to act like Republicans.

He and organizations he's founded have been largely repsonsible or deeply involved with the following...

-Mandatory seat belts and air bags in all automobiles
-The Safe Drinking Water Act
-The creation of Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), Environment Protection Agency (EPA) and Consumer Product Safety Administration
-Freedom of Information Act of 1974

Of course, maybe I'm just letting some joke "WHOOOOSH" right over my head. Regardless, I've met the man, I've worked with him, and I respect and appreciate what he's done.


<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."





This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-12-03 @ 11:34 PM

Thebazile78
01-12-2003, 06:12 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/12SUN1.html

WARNING: Even I feel that the above link (to an OpEd piece that appeared in the 12 January 2003 New York Times is alarmist and worst-case-scenario, but I feel it belongs here in this thread.

This may be another justification of why Horde King dislikes Dubya...I just think it's scary.

When accusations like those brought up in this editorial begin to rear their ugly heads, I continue to question everything. And prompts me to do research... and I LOATHE research.


<img src="http://tenbatsuzen.homestead.com/files/bazile78sig.jpg">
<br>"If human beings stopped exercising their lips, their brains would start working" - Ford Prefect

Se7en
01-12-2003, 06:58 PM
I dispise his failure to act. He's good at making vaguely threatening speeches (albiet ones that sound comical b/c of his mispronounciations), but he just doesn't follow through. He's talked up the war against terrorism, but hasn't delivered on his rehtoric. I suppose that's because he manages to find ways to ally the US with terrorist states such as Saudi Arabia. He talked big against North Korea and their nukelear (his pronounciation) program, and their threat as part of the axis of evil, but didn't have any problems allowing them to sell scud missles to Yemin. Remember the Cole? Remember the anti-US sentiment expressed there to this day? Bush doesn't.

Should you really be using this as part of your argument, considering the actions - I'm sorry, make that INactions - taken by the Clinton administration, of which your boy-toy Gore was an integral part?

The inference you're allowing to be drawn here is that Gore would be doing a better job handling this situation, and frankly, I think that's laughable at best. If anything, Gore would be much, MUCH worse.

I've NEVER voted on party lines. I vote for the better candidate (or more often for the lesser of two evils.)

And why do I get the feeling that, to you, the Dems are the better candidate 99.99% of the time.

But technically, that wouldn't be the party line!

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ChickenHawk
01-12-2003, 07:16 PM
And frankly Chicken
Hawk, I don't appreciate you
trying to put a wedge
between me and Horde
King.
No Moe, that wasn't a
wedge of separation. That
was just cheese.
<IMG SRC="http://rainbowsbridge.com/images/toys/cheese_wedge.gif">



SIGNATURE PENDING

This message was edited by ChickenHawk on 1-12-03 @ 11:33 PM

TheMojoPin
01-12-2003, 07:25 PM
And why do I get the feeling that, to you, the Dems are the better candidate 99.99% of the time.

But you talk like you probably don't do the same...this board is pretty fierce in it's politcal loyalty, and I doubt there's very little crossing over.

I'll admit, in the dozens of elections I've voted in, I've only voted for six Republican candidates. About 75% were independents, and the rest Democrats.

And as for Gore, he wouldn't really be doing better or worse, just more of the same. Outside of the Iraq talk, Bush is only doing just enough when it comes to the war on terror. Clinton did the same. After the African embassy bombings, airstrikes were ordered against several suspected Al Queda targets. After rumored reports of civilian casualities, the American PUBLIC sharply outcried against the raids. Clinton's approval ratings actually dropped, and numerous opinion polls showed a majority against the bombings. To bow before the voters, Clinton pulled back the strikes. Today, Bush and co. trot out a few captures and kills here and there, when all totalled come to MAYBE a couple hundred, at best. It's something, but really only just enough to make everyone feel good and "safe". Same as Gore would have done. Ho-hum.

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-12-03 @ 11:31 PM

A.J.
01-12-2003, 07:32 PM
After the African embassy bombings, airstrikes were ordered against several suspected Al Queda targets. After rumored reports of civilian casualities, the American PUBLIC sharply outcried against the raids. Clinton's approval ratings actually dropped, and numerous opinion polls showed a majority against the bombings. To bow before the voters, Clinton pulled back the strikes.


That exemplifies the Clinton Administration: polls dictated every decision he made.

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A Skidmark production.

TheMojoPin
01-12-2003, 07:39 PM
That exemplifies the Clinton Administration: polls dictated every decision he made.

Without a doubt. But at the same time, the fact that Bush is treading so carefully now, even with the radical decision to invade Iraq, is because he most assuredly does NOT want to rock the boat when it comes to his high approval rating, because the second he does that, he'll be replaying his dad's role in '92...

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

A.J.
01-12-2003, 07:44 PM
True Mojo, but like his father, I think his fate in 2004 will ultimately be decided based upon the state of the economy, not necessarily by whether he decides to invade Iraq.

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

HordeKing1
01-12-2003, 08:09 PM
SE7EN - I'm surprised at you.

Usually you read the posts before you respond.

I never said that Gore was good. I said he was the lesser of the two evils. (And that Lieberman, Gore's VP is worse than Bush).

Bush is an unmitigated failure on every level imaginable. Gore couldn't possibly do worse. Since he is intelligent he'd probably do a lot better. The only way to go from Bush is up.

Again, I'll say, I've never voted on party lines. I've voted on issues, like for Pataki (against democrat Cuomo) b/c Cuomo was against capital punishment on "moral" (read "religious" grounds). I voted for Clinton (democrat)and Reagan (republican). Clinton was better than the joker he was running against and Mondale was just laughable. Reagan set the country back a lot in many ways, and Clinton did in other ways. They both sucked.

Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy (democrat) is the best elected official I've encountered in the past 20 years or so. I'd vote for her no matter what party she was in. Interestingly she was not involved in politics at all before a personal tragedy got her involved. I agree with most bills she sponsors, and supports, and she is active in many areas that are of personal importance to me.


I've NEVER voted on party lines. I vote for the better candidate (or more often for the lesser of two evils.)

On the other hand, Senator Dean Skelos (Republican) is also pretty terrific.

As I said, I've never voted on party lines. Next time read the post before you respond.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">

TheMojoPin
01-12-2003, 09:20 PM
True Mojo, but like his father, I think his fate in 2004 will ultimately be decided based upon the state of the economy, not necessarily by whether he decides to invade Iraq.

I can't help but notice the timing going on now. The first Bush was deeply involved with Iraq by his second year, whereas Dubya (Sorry...I hate the name, but I need to distinguish the two) is already into year three. Bush managed to blow his rocketing approval rating in the time between the end of the Iraq campaign and the '92 election because of the economy. If Dubya can stretch this out a little longer and then pull of a reasonable facsimile of a "victory" around the fall or even winter of this year, his re-election is almost reassured.

And as long as the economy doesn't take a sudden plunge, he should be able to ride out next year campaigning on the Iraq victory. IF he pulls it off. At least in the eyes of the general public. Which, unfortunately can often mean shortsighted and spur-of-the-moment decisions, as in the first Iraq campaign.

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-13-03 @ 1:26 AM

Thebazile78
01-13-2003, 06:50 AM
Ralph is another scumbag.

I direct you to the 2nd full paragraph of my post:

Ralph let me down. He was a HUGE disappointment. I feel like the little kid in Eight Men Out who goes up to "Shoeless Joe" Jackson and says "Say it ain't so, Joe."

The first 4 words are, as you can plainly see, "Ralph let me down."

This means, after the election, I found out about things that he'd done (or been accused of doing) and it disappointed me. He let me down and shattered my idealism about the feasability of a genuine 3rd-party threat to the major 2.



<img src="http://tenbatsuzen.homestead.com/files/bazile78sig.jpg">
<br>"If human beings stopped exercising their lips, their brains would start working" - Ford Prefect

TheMojoPin
01-13-2003, 10:50 AM
This means, after the election, I found out about things that he'd done (or been accused of doing) and it disappointed me. He let me down and shattered my idealism about the feasability of a genuine 3rd-party threat to the major 2.

Can someone please point me in the direction of where I can read about this? I've heard plenty of accusations of Nader's various "corruptions", but never anything concrete. Honestly, I'm curious, and Yahoo and Google are just spitting mountains of pro-Nader stuff at me.

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

Thebazile78
01-13-2003, 11:03 AM
Can someone please point me in the direction of where I can read about this? I've heard plenty of accusations of Nader's various "corruptions", but never anything concrete.

Found one:

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

I'd like to also re-phrase my earlier statement on how Ralph let me down.

It wasn't really Ralph, it was the electoral process in general; Ralph just happened to be the guy I picked. He's been in the public eye as a "consumer watchdog" (among other things) for years and not many folks who were going to vote for Dubya or Gore anyway (*shiver*) take him seriously anymore.

He let me down by splitting the popular vote, like Teddy Roosevelt and the "Bull Moose" Party did for Woodrow Wilson in the 1914 election. It seemed to influence the electoral votes towards either major party. It hurt that more sense couldn't have been made of the whole thing. :(



<img src="http://tenbatsuzen.homestead.com/files/bazile78sig.jpg">
<br>"If human beings stopped exercising their lips, their brains would start working" - Ford Prefect

This message was edited by Thebazile78 on 1-13-03 @ 3:12 PM

TheMojoPin
01-13-2003, 11:05 AM
Thanks...

I'm not going to say he's spotless, or the most orthodox of individuals, nor do I think he'd do well in ANY elected office. I will, however, still stand by his larger, far more beneficial record of service as a public and consumer crusader. As a man, he has more than his share of flaws and weaknesess, but I still think he's done far much more for the common good of the American people.

I think he has bought into the "Saint Ralph" persona too much in the last 15 years or so, and that it has often sidetracked him. But it would still be unfair to allow human mistakes and arrogance to overshadow a lot of the universal good he did in the 60's and 70's and into the 80's.

I voted for Green, not for Nader.

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

Thebazile78
01-13-2003, 11:27 AM
I think he has bought into the "Saint Ralph" persona too much in the last 15 years or so, and that it has often sidetracked him. But it would still be unfair to allow human mistakes and arrogance to overshadow a lot of the universal good he did in the 60's and 70's and into the 80's.

I voted for Green, not for Nader.

Point taken. And I agree that it's unfair to let personal mistakes overshadow the greater good, but it happens. All the time. And it's shameful.





<img src="http://tenbatsuzen.homestead.com/files/bazile78sig.jpg">
<br>"If human beings stopped exercising their lips, their brains would start working" - Ford Prefect

A.J.
01-13-2003, 11:47 AM
by splitting the popular vote, like Teddy Roosevelt and the "Bull Moose" Party did for Woodrow Wilson in the 1914 election.


Actually, that was 1912 (nice TR reference though!). 80 years later, Ross Perot would do the same thing.

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A Skidmark production.

A.J.
01-13-2003, 11:57 AM
Oh and Nader will be on CNN's "Crossfire" tonight (7-8PM, ET)

Nader goes head-to-head with Carlson

Monday, January 13, 2003

Ralph Nader
Former presidential candidate and consumer crusader Ralph Nader steps into the "Crossfire" as a guest host tonight, facing off against Tucker Carlson. Who'll win? Tune in to find out.

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A Skidmark production.

NewYorkDragons80
01-13-2003, 02:33 PM
http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm
Mojo, sorry about sources. I know I have had a problem with this.

I also supported Nader in 2000, but mostly because there needs to be a third party in the USA. The Greens are way too liberal though. They need to lay off the free Mumia crap. In 2000, I was also under the misconception that the Green Party was about protecting the environment. However, it became clear that issues related to the environment (or any of Ralph's issues) took a backseat to his "Hey, look at me, I'm the little guy" rhetoric.

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"In war there is no substitute for victory." -General Douglas MacArthur "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 1-13-03 @ 6:39 PM

Thebazile78
01-13-2003, 03:23 PM
that was 1912

Thank you for the correction.

I stared at the date and thought it didn't look right, but left it alone for fear of being wrong.

Also, thanks for the compliment ("nice TR reference") :)




<img src="http://tenbatsuzen.homestead.com/files/bazile78sig.jpg">
<br>"If human beings stopped exercising their lips, their brains would start working" - Ford Prefect

rmw
01-13-2003, 03:42 PM
Punching out...

"And the meek shall inherit the earth."

This message was edited by rmw on 1-15-03 @ 9:52 PM

HordeKing1
01-13-2003, 04:06 PM
Why RMV, clearly you are.

EDIT: Since you saw fit to start a separate thread on this, I'll give you the same response.

How sad that you view a man who cares about women as a pussy.

It speaks volumes about your character.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">

This message was edited by HordeKing1 on 1-13-03 @ 8:09 PM

TheMojoPin
01-13-2003, 04:06 PM
Dragon, bazile, thanks for putting up the link. I actually first came across that site a good two years ago and was hoping against hope that wouldn't be the one brought up. The actual page itself and its content is very inaccurate, slanderous and sloppy, but the majority of the sources at the bottom are very reliable and well-researched. The author of the site skewed a lot of them to their own goals.

Again, I agree that Nader got far too caught up in being "Ralph Nader: Public Champion" in the past 15 years or so, and has kind of let a lot of the causes he really busted his ass on fall to the side in the face of "Ralph being RALPH!!!". All that being said, he does actually make a good public front for these kinds of social and economic "crusades", and I think he's still valuable as a recognizable face and a familiar voice with significant experience in the matters at hand that he often speaks for.

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

TooCute
01-13-2003, 04:14 PM
This question must
be asked to Horde: Why do
you insist on allowing
women to be mutilated in
abortion clinics

I know you didn't ask me,
but, if a woman wants to be
mutilated, let her be
mutilated. I suppose that
you think that piercings
should be outlawed, too.

And since when is abortion
mutilation of a woman?

I feel like a broken record
repeating that I am a broken
record. Pro-life means I do
what you want. I don't do
what I want. Pro-choice
means I do what I want and
you do what you want. It
doesn't mean you do what I
want.

I hold an advance
degree from one the oldest
and most respected
colleges in the
country.

How is this in any way
shape or form relevant to
the discussion at hand? If
you're trying to impress
people, well, sorry. There
are plenty of well educated
folks here. And there are
plenty of people who don't
have 'advance degrees'
who are smart and able to
form their own informed
opinions. Since you did go
to such a great school you
must know that there are
plenty of idiots who can't
think for themselves who
graduate from them, as
well.


<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
ADF makes great sigpics!

Yerdaddy
01-13-2003, 04:42 PM
I hold an advance degree from one the oldest and most respected colleges in the country.
Bob Jones?
Strangely, I do not see Bush as a dolt. Perhaps that is because I am able to see that he is an effective leader.
Perhaps you can just see into his soul because he's so transparent?

Everything HordeKing says-either posting or when he calls in-is based on a worldview that any woman would envy. He is part of the pussification of America. Any strong, dominant male forces Horde to realize his own inadequacies-both intellectually and as a man. His response is to toss out unfounded accusations: "woman hater," etc.against Bush who has not once shown a single misogynistic tendency.

This question must be asked to Horde: Why do you insist on allowing women to be mutilated in abortion clinics, only to lash out at those of us who view such a procedure as abortion as murder? Who, HordeKing, is the real "woman hater"?
Did you major in arts and crafts in that fancy school of yours? Because it seems like you only learned to build lots of straw men. How about breaking it up a little with some red herrings or some macaroni glued to a paper plate?

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigyalta.jpg" >
It was a joke goddammit!



This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 1-13-03 @ 8:45 PM

rmw
01-13-2003, 04:49 PM
Yerdaddy

So your incapable of responding to the question at hand?

TooCute

I was hoping to show that educated individuals differ with HordeKing. And by the way, when will you start to think for yourself?

"And the meek shall inheret the earth."

This message was edited by rmw on 1-13-03 @ 9:00 PM

Yerdaddy
01-13-2003, 05:52 PM
Do you mean this as the question at hand that you keep trying to get everyone to answer:
This question must be asked to Horde: Why do you insist on allowing women to be mutilated in abortion clinics, only to lash out at those of us who view such a procedure as abortion as murder? Who, HordeKing, is the real "woman hater"?
Because you seem to be too caught up in admiring your degrees to have seen my answer. I'll spell it out:

Straw Man - It is a fallacy to misrepresent someone else's position for the purposes of more easily attacking it, then to knock down that misrepresented position, and then to conclude that the original position has been demolished. It is a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made.
(From some theology school of all places.)

This one's just a guess
Main Entry: tool
Pronunciation: 'tl
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English tOl; akin to Old English tawian to prepare for use -more at TAW
Date: before 12th century
1 a : a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task b (1) : the cutting or shaping part in a machine or machine tool (2) : a machine for shaping metal : MACHINE TOOL
2 a : something (as an instrument or apparatus) used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession <a scholar's books are his tools> b : a means to an end <a book's cover can be a marketing tool> c : often vulgar : PENIS
3 : one that is used or manipulated by another

<img src="http://yerdaddy.homestead.com/files/pics/sigyalta.jpg" >
It was a joke goddammit!

NewYorkDragons80
01-13-2003, 06:21 PM
The actual page itself and its content is very inaccurate, slanderous and sloppy
Yeah, if you read John McCain's skeletons, they give voice to a radical POW activist who accuses McCain of treason during his imprisonment in a Vietnamese prison camp!!!

For the most part though, I like how it uncovers hawkish draft-dodgers like Gingrich and Quayle.

<marquee>
"In war there is no substitute for victory." -General Douglas MacArthur "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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DCPete walked me through how to FINALLY post a sig.

TheMojoPin
01-13-2003, 08:16 PM
Yeah, if you read John McCain's skeletons, they give voice to a radical POW activist who accuses McCain of treason during his imprisonment in a Vietnamese prison camp!!!

Right, because we should put McCain right up there with Jane Fonda. Crazy fool webhead...

I'm guilty of it myself quite a bit, but some people go out of their way to an insane degree to do nothing except tear down good people. Everyone has their faults, but most of us don't allow ourselves to be defined by them.

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-14-03 @ 12:26 AM

Meatball
01-14-2003, 11:59 AM
I notice the ABORTION issue comes up now and then in these rooms, and is always a hot topic. People make their descision - and then defend that descision tooth and nail. Well - whatever you chose, understand that others have the opposite opinion and in their minds are JUST as moral and correct as you/we are.

Here is a website that seems very user friendly to use and makes puts info in one place.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/meatball1.jpg">

NewYorkDragons80
01-14-2003, 02:05 PM
Yes, that's my gripe with the site. They have their stuff in order, but since they are established to try to uncover "skeletons", they will listen to any story out of a semi-reliable publication.

<marquee>
"In war there is no substitute for victory." -General Douglas MacArthur "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/myhomepage/nydragonssig.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US>
DCPete walked me through how to FINALLY post a sig.

Thebazile78
01-14-2003, 02:09 PM
The actual page itself and its content is very inaccurate, slanderous and sloppy, but the majority of the sources at the bottom are very reliable and well-researched. The author of the site skewed a lot of them to their own goals.

I tried to find a better site. This one served the purpose by showing proof of how certain rumors got started.



<img src="http://tenbatsuzen.homestead.com/files/bazile78sig.jpg">
<br>"If human beings stopped exercising their lips, their brains would start working" - Ford Prefect

HordeKing1
01-14-2003, 08:03 PM
I respect everyone's opinion, and I respect the right of the individual to apply his or her own morals to himself or herself. But I will not allow others to apply their "morals" to others.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">