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TooCute
01-13-2003, 07:50 AM
All the talk on the board about abortion, religion, etc. got me thinking about another topic that is controversial; one that I think is equally as important as whther Roe v. Wade is going to be oevrturned, or whether children ought to be required to say the pledge of allegiance in school.

An article in yesterday's Newsday is what brought this to mind; the article is here: http://www.newsday.com/ne
ws/nationworld/nation/ny-us
envi123084471jan12.story and will be there for two weeks (now if some nice mod could help an IE user and make that into a real link). It does have a 'liberal' sort of pro-environment bent to it, however, the quotation by the rancher at the end of the
article (re: grazing his cattle on land designated National Monument under Clinton's regime) needs no editorializing to make the point clear:
They can
call it a monument, but to me it's just an arid, harsh desert.

It depresses me to think that such ignorance exists, and indeed is coupled with businesses that continues to dictate national policy.

Such issues are also not limited to ranchers out west, or oil-drillers in Alaska or fishermen off our coasts; they affect us even in New York City. For example, since the implementation of the Clean Water act in 1972, conditions in the Hudson Tiver have improved dramatically - to the point that many organisms which disappeared from the river decades ago due to pollution are now returning.

This is not simply of aesthetic value; the health of the Hudson River is crucial, for example, to many commercial fisheries (striped bass in our area spend the first year of their lives living in the Hudson River essentially from New York Harbor up to the GWB. Dirty water means not many invertebrates. Not many invertebrates means not much for the little fish to eat).

However, the Bush administration would like to
implement policies that, rather than enforce the Clean Water Act and encourage less pollution, essentially allow companies to pay other companies to reduce their pollution, while maintaining their own pollution output.

It is a very interesting story(I keep telling myself this over and over so I can convince myself that my research means something!!) about how the recent improvement in the quality
of the river may have a potentially negative effect on the ecosystem of New York Harbor; that is a different issue and one I can save for some other post if anybody is interested.

Mostly I was just wanted to share the Newsday article, and provide links to a couple of environmental organizations mentioned:

The first is on the Sierra Club website; it is a breakdown and summary of recent legislation in regards to the environment - very good if you have a short attention span like me: http://www.sierraclub.org/po
litics/bush/w_watch.asp

The second is the Defenders of Wildlife; they have pages on habitats, species, etc. which are threatened by legislation: http://www.defenders.org

Happy reading!

EDIT: Direct links added. No content changed.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
ADF makes great sigpics!







This message was edited by HordeKing1 on 1-13-03 @ 6:34 PM

ChrisTheCop
01-13-2003, 01:15 PM
Happy reading!
Wha? I gotta read more after your chairman chacha-like rant?! (kidding) oh, and I'm no mod, but here's her link: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usenvi123084471jan12.story

<img src="http://rfcop.50megs.com/images/badgesig-lorenathe_aggie.jpg">an Aggie Joint

This message was edited by ChrisTheCop on 1-13-03 @ 5:21 PM

HordeKing1
01-13-2003, 02:34 PM
In Bush's defense, God will bring back the striped bass, remove all polution, punish the evil abortionists, evolutionists and democrats, cure the common cold, have dinner in Japan without puking on the prime minister and meet foreign dignitaries without asking them if they have blacks in their country.

It will happen any day now. Really. Stay tuned. Keep waiting. Really. Any day now.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">

TooCute
01-13-2003, 02:44 PM
Dude, HK - you fixed my
post AND you didn't insert
"HK is my favorite mod" into
it. You rock.


<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
ADF makes great sigpics!

ChrisTheCop
01-13-2003, 02:48 PM
well. I guess I'm neither needed nor appreciated here. sigh.

<img src="http://rfcop.50megs.com/images/badgesig-lorenathe_aggie.jpg">an Aggie Joint

Gvac
01-13-2003, 03:04 PM
Take a deep breath and relax. I assure you President Bush and the evil Republicans are not out to destroy the environment. They are taking a common sense approach to the situation, however.

This stands in stark contrast with the lunatics at the Sierra Club and other such inane organizations. To these assholes, human beings are the worst thing that ever happenned to the planet and we should all return to living in grass huts and praying to rocks and trees.

<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/capsig.jpg>

TooCute
01-13-2003, 03:12 PM
Gvac. You are right that
Bush and his government
are not out to get the
envirnment, per se, but that
is where it ends. What they
ARE out to do is to pander
to the oil companies, the
ranchers, the pig farmers
and all of the other
companies to whom profit
is more important than
environment.

Did you know that Staten
Island and Oyster Bay (go
figure) used to have some
of the largest oyster beds in
the world? And that they are
now gone because
pollution caused oxygen
levels in the river to drop so
low that they could not live?
In Foundry Cove, near Cold
Spring, NY, the sediments
contain some of the highest
levels of cadmium
anywhere in the world.
Pollution's great, right?

So it is bills like the Clean
Water Act that have helped
to start turning around such
flagrant abuse of the
environment. Yet, the fact is
that Bush's administration
has systematically moved
to weaken and even reverse
such legislation.

Which do you think the
Bush administration is
going to consider more
important: anasazi artifacts
in Cortez or the votes of the
ranchers who want to graze
their cattle?

If you think that Bush, and
the republican party do not
consider who their voters
and campaign contributors
are before the environment,
then you are blind.

And if you think that the
environment can "take it"
then you are sorely
misinformed and should
take steps to remedy your
ignorance.

As I've stated before, I'm not
a big fan of heavily
editorialized writing,
whether it supports my
ideas or contradicts it. I
provided the link to the
Sierra Club's page only as
a means where you could
see the actual actions that
have been taken by Bush
that have been detrimental
to the environment.

I defy you to find an
ecologist who is not paid by
Bush and his
administration as a
"consultant" who believes
that Bush has done one
single thing that was
beneficial for the
environment.


<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
ADF makes great sigpics!

Abrasive Dean
01-13-2003, 03:43 PM
Bush and the environment


That is almost an oxymoron in itself.

This is the same GW Bush who refused to agree to emission controls citing it was the right of every American to use as much petrol/gas as they like.

(Well the Oil will never run out -right?) I am with Horde King, Bush is a buffoon. No offense.

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/deanmcg/sig/sig.jpg">

Gvac
01-13-2003, 05:18 PM
As an avid outdoorsman, President Bush is quite concerned with conservation. Hunters and fishermen have no desire to see the land or waters become polluted and destroy the wildlife they so enjoy.

I, too, am quite an outdoorsman and of course I believe the rivers and lakes should be kept clean so as to keep the fish population healthy and plentiful.

I do not want to see it overregulated with nonsensical restrictions either. Many of these wacked out environmentalist groups despise hunters and fishermen and want to ban those activities too.

There is a middle ground and merely because not everyone is on the side of the Sierra club and other extremist groups, it does not make us "anti-environment."

<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/capsig.jpg>

NewYorkDragons80
01-13-2003, 05:48 PM
I don't think any politician sets out to destroy the environment. However, there are politicians who have no particular interest in protecting it and are more than happy to sacrifice it for money. Unfortunately, our president is one of those people.

Hordeking, is Bush a creationist?

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ChrisTheCop
01-13-2003, 06:23 PM
Bush is to the environment what TooCute is to my assistance.

<img src="http://rfcop.50megs.com/images/badgesig-lorenathe_aggie.jpg">an Aggie Joint

Recyclerz
01-13-2003, 07:06 PM
I defy you to find an ecologist who is not paid by Bush and his administration as a consultant who believes that Bush has done one single thing that was beneficial for the environment. <P>
As much as it pains me to defend W, this link is to a white paper by Greg Easterbrook attacking some of the orthodoxy in the media about Bush being completely anti-environment <P>
http://aei.brookings.org/admin/pdffiles/working_02_06.pdf <P>
I work in environmental compliance for a multi-national chemical company, which either makes me evil incarnate or as somebody trying to make a small difference within the system. I am in favor of science based regulations that reduce risk to human health and the environment. My opinion is that most of the low-hanging fruit in protecting the environment has already been harvested and that any major new initiatives in reducing emissions are going to be costly in terms of economics and changing people's behavior. Eg. If you want to make a bold new gesture in support of the environment, start advocating a dollar/gallon gasoline tax - it is sure to make you popular. ;-) <P> One thing that Bush does deserve to be hammered on is the Clean Air Act regulations guidance that allow the coal-burning plants in the Mid-West to keep being grandfathered under old, less rigorous standards. <P> <P> <P>

You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.

The Jays
01-13-2003, 08:30 PM
Did you know that Staten
Island and Oyster Bay (go
figure) used to have some
of the largest oyster beds in
the world? And that they are
now gone because
pollution caused oxygen
levels in the river to drop so
low that they could not live?
In Foundry Cove, near Cold
Spring, NY, the sediments
contain some of the highest
levels of cadmium
anywhere in the world.
Pollution's great, right?

So it is bills like the Clean
Water Act that have helped
to start turning around such
flagrant abuse of the
environment. Yet, the fact is
that Bush's administration
has systematically moved
to weaken and even reverse
such legislation.



The oysters bays off of Staten Island died off from the raw sewage that we were dumping into the waters. Sewage forces organisms to suck up more oxygen, thus depleting it for fish and animals. That was many years ago. Today, the water in Lower NY Harbor is cleaner than it was in the 50's. Plants along the Staten Island south shore help to clean the water, thus, oysters are now growing.

NYC, nor NJ towns, will not be dumping raw sewage into the water any time in the near future.



<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> Fuck what you heard.</font>
<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> That cab has a dent in it.</font> [center]
[center]http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/jays777/die.jpg

A.J.
01-14-2003, 05:55 AM
As an avid outdoorsman, President Bush is quite concerned with conservation.

Indeed. I remembered this observation made by Andrew Sullivan in his "Daily Dish" from 2 JAN 02 which describes how Bush's Prairie Chapel ranch in Crawford, TX is a good example of his belief in environmental-friendliness:

THE BUSH RANCH: Imagine, for a moment, that Al Gore was now president. Now stop shaking for a minute and think hard. If Gore had built a presidential ranch that was one storey high, got all its electricity from the sun, and was described by the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/02/opinion/02WED3.html as a "model of the yuppie modern ranch", don't you think it would become an emblem of his presidency? So why hasn't it happened to Bush? Here's the Times: "The first lady, Laura Bush, has overseen the planting of native Texas grasses. The house is environmentally correct, with a passive solar design, geothermal cooling and heating, a cistern to catch rainwater and purification tanks and filters so that water from the house can be recycled for use in irrigation." Does Bush get any credit for this? Do his environmental critics who have yet to find a substantive difference between Bush's and Clinton's environmental policies acknowledge that Bush is an actual, living, breathing environmentalist? While Gore talked a good game, does he know anything about tending to thousands of acres of actual brush land the way W does? I point this out just to show how lazy the press is. You start with a picture of Bush as a gas-guzzling, arsenic-pushing tool of Big Oil, and you sure as heck try and avoid anything that might complicate this picture. Of course, Bush is partly to blame. Unlike most modern yuppie pols, he doesn't see his private life as just another propaganda tool. But that doesn't mean the press shouldn't notice more. Memo to Rove: how about Bush inviting a couple of environmental journalists to his ranch to show off his energy conservation? How about linking it to a speech that stresses such values in order to help wean us off foreign sources of energy? There's no need to do a Tom Friedman, but you really do need to tackle this anti-environmental smear that has so far stuck to you.


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A Skidmark production.

This message was edited by AJinDC on 1-14-03 @ 10:02 AM

TheMojoPin
01-14-2003, 08:55 AM
Bush's ranch is incredibly impressive...but it's always frustrated me that if he's willing to go the distance with this kind of technology for himself, why doesn't he push for it to be available for more Americans? It sounds like a beautiful way of life...I'd sure like to have it widely available so I could get a little sumthin'-sumthin' for myself...

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

The Jays
01-14-2003, 03:28 PM
.... If you want an environmentally friendly house, go get an architect and get it done..... the technology is available to you... most people don't want to go through the hassle of doing it and just want a normal home....

<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> Fuck what you heard.</font>
<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> That cab has a dent in it.</font> [center]
[center]http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/jays777/die.jpg

TheMojoPin
01-14-2003, 03:30 PM
.... If you want an environmentally friendly house, go get an architect and get it done..... the technology is available to you... most people don't want to go through the hassle of doing it and just want a normal home....

Not necessarily...the costs (intial payments, maintenance, shipping, etc.) are astronomical compared to the more common utilites that you can find EVERYWHERE for your home...

<img src=http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/mjpin1.gif>
VP #2 for the Coalition of Angry Micks, and the best goddamn American ever.
"You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-14-03 @ 7:31 PM

JerseyTim
01-14-2003, 03:34 PM
In Bush's defense, God will bring back the striped bass, remove all polution, punish the evil abortionists, evolutionists and democrats, cure the common cold, have dinner in Japan without puking on the prime minister and meet foreign dignitaries without asking them if they have blacks in their country.


http://www.snopes.com/quotes/brazil.htm

Go Peacocks!
tim
|-o-| <-o-> |-o-|

high fly
01-15-2003, 09:35 AM
Campaign Bush lied lied lied with that talk about being pro environment. That's what he does- lie. The big oal campaign contributers that have had him in their back pocket since they helped him buy a baseball team [where he traded SAMMY SOSA!] finally got him in office and now they shall get a return on their investment. Your concerns are in the right place, TooCute ...Dumbya lies lies lies.

"Honest Mr. officer sir; I just FOUND these drugs, and I was just now on my way to turn them in"