Hydrogen

[Reephdweller]

In the state of the union, Bush did make a comment about alternative fuels, namely hydrogen. I like this idea a lot, though I'd like to know what the likelyhood that such an alternative could make it to the public for use in vehicles?

I'm not asking if Bush can get it done, so please don't get into party or political bashing, but more to the concept of this alternative. I'd like to see a discussion on how realistic this alternative really is.

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[canofsoup15]

As long as we still have 5o years supply of oil, we wont see this often for 45 more years. Gas companies would go out of business, car companies, shipping companies, and everything else we use to pump gas.

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I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes

[FTW]

The biggest problem with hydrogen is that it is VERY explosive. If a hydrogen powered car got into an accident the fuel tank, being under pressure and containing a highly explosive material, has the potential to turn into a rocket. So, it's not exactly safe. Gasoline is flamable, obviously, but it only explodes in movies.
Cost is another factor. Hydrogen is expensive.
There are other problems and other alternatives.

[furie]

<a href="http://www.howstuffworks.com/fuel-cell.htm"> this might help </a>

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<font size=3><b><font color=green>Furie</b></font>
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[HordeKing1]

Well you konw what they say about hydrogen?

The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. How ironic to have it articulated by Bush.

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[DarkHippie]

The biggest problem with hydrogen is that it is VERY explosive
Yes, in a star, hydrogen is very explosive as it undergoes fusion at incomprehensible degrees.

According to the site Furie linked too (and my own minor knowledge of science) in order for Hydrogen to undergo oxization, it must either be at very high temperatures or be put through a catalyst. a Hydrogen fuel cells run at low temp. (173F) so it will not combust unless chambered with the chemical catalyst.

the current problem with hydrogen fuel cells is the scarcity of free Hydrogen. This is being solved by adding a machine to the system that can convert methanol into hydrogen and its base elements and molecules. This lowers the efficiency of the fuel cell, but it is still higher than gasoline, and the by-product of a fuel cell is water, much safer than what comes out of a gas-powered car.

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[DarkHippie]

I just want to add that there's a company called Hypercar that currently has a full-sized car that gets 84mpg hwy/ 115mpg cty. It runs on a hydrogen fuel cell.

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[GaryWyze]

I just want to add that there's a company called Hypercar that currently has a full-sized car that gets 84mpg hwy/ 115mpg cty. It runs on a hydrogen fuel cell.


<font color=purple>And does zero to sixty in two weeks.




This message was edited by GaryWyze on 1-29-03 @ 12:36 PM

[DarkHippie]

yeah, it is kinda slow. it does 0-60 in 8.4 so it doesn't have as much acceleration, but its hard to deny the benefits. check out their website if you'd like. It's only a brocure, but i think its gonna be the future.
http://www.hypercar.com

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[furie]

it does 0-60 in 8.4


Is that with or without the sail up?

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[DarkHippie]

no sail, but it does have 12 oompa loompas in the back pedaling Fred Flintstone style :)

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<marquee>Who is DarkHippie? "You look like an Amish child molester"-- Jim Norton. "Watch out for this one. Someday he's gonna snap and kill you all."-- Rich Vos </marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
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[Bill From Yorktown]

According to the site Furie linked too (and my own minor knowledge of science) in order for Hydrogen to undergo oxization, it must either be at very high temperatures or be put through a catalyst. a Hydrogen fuel cells run at low temp. (173F) so it will not combust unless chambered with the chemical catalyst.

misleading assumption there - it will combust if exposed to oxygen and ignited, perhapse in an accident. ALterate storage mechanisms are being investigated which chemically bond the hydrogen in the cell in a way that it cannot leak and burn, until needed. There was an article last year (pop science I think) tha discussed.

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[DarkHippie]

misleading assumption there - it will combust if exposed to oxygen and ignited, perhapse in an accident. ALterate storage mechanisms are being investigated which chemically bond the hydrogen in the cell in a way that it cannot leak and burn, until needed. There was an article last year (pop science I think) tha discussed.
yes, of course it will burn, but originally i had posted to refute the claim that it would explode "like a rocket". The oxygen is taken from the air, not stored in the car, so in an accident, the leaking hydrogen meets fire and the atmosphere, which is primarily nitrogen. It will burn, but not to the fusion degree that is the fallacy so many believe.

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<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
</i><a href=http://www.freeopendiary.com/entrylist.asp?authorcode=A537085>Gonads and Strife: a journal</a>

[furie]

In an accident, it wouldn't be hydrogen that leaked from the fuel tank, it would be the hydrocarbon or alcohol fuel used to make hydrogen. The hydrogen is made and then immediately mixed with the oxygen. it's not sitting around in the fuel cell.

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<font size=3><b><font color=green>Furie</b></font>
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[HordeKing1]

Tell me that alcoholics aren't going to be packing the gas stations of the future to guzzle the alcoholic "car" fuel.

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[Devils Advocate]

The annoying thing is that we don't really have to spend $1.2 Billion to develop this. We just need to send someone into the government warehouse where they've stored plans for alternative fuel cars which have been suppressed by the government under pressure from the oil companies. We just need to find those plans and get them out.

The plans, and the Ark of the Covenant, while we're there.

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[KC2OSO]

No! Continue to burn fossil fuels dammit!!

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Hydrogen is all well and good, but a hydrogen car still needs hydrogen. Keep in mind that today's cars which are currently powered by conventional fuel have an efficiency that peaks at 20% in the most efficient cars (Volkswagens, Hondas) and 5% in the least efficient cars (Hummers, Excursions). Hydrogen is almost brand new and it is fantastic that Bush wants to fund this research, but as a new source of energy, it will take decades before a hydrogen car will be as efficient as the most inefficient of today's automobiles. So it's good that he wants to help the environment, but he should not have made the most impatient people in the world all "hot to trot" about something they should not expect in a dealership near them anytime soon.

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