Colin Powell speaks at the U.N [Archive]

Teenweek

02-05-2003, 07:38 AM

KEY POINTS
Here are some key points made by U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell during his presentation on Wednesday.

Powell plays what he says is an audiotape of a colonel and brigadier general of Iraq's elite Republican Guard discussing, according to the U.S. translation, hiding a vehicle before U.N. weapons inspectors arrive to search a site.

Powell shows satellite photos that he says indicate the presence of "active chemical munitions bunkers" disguised from inspectors.

Similarly, Powell displays satellite photos he says show the Amiriyah Serum and Vaccine site and a ballistic missile construction site, where trucks were seen shortly before inspectors were to arrive. Powell says those trucks were to remove evidence.

Powell says that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has personally barred scientists from participating in interviews with U.N. inspectors, on pain of death.

Powell describes -- and shows drawings of -- what he says are mobile biological weapons manufacturing labs.

Powell shows satellite photos he says indicate that earth was moved and graded at a chemical production site called Al-Musayib to hide evidence.

Powell plays an audiotape of voices he says belong to two commanders of the 2nd Republican Guard Corps, one telling the other to remove references to "nerve agents" in wireless communications.

Powell shows photos he says depict the much-discussed "aluminum tubes" that the U.S. says were imported for Iraq's use in trying to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program.

When we are on our way or on our way back, please drop a few bombs on France too.

INFOSTUD

02-05-2003, 07:53 AM

Colin Powell nailed Iraq's lying ass to the wall! The entire inspection thing is an absolute joke. 

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jratt

02-05-2003, 07:53 AM

Thats it it is all over for iraq with or without the un....any one wanna make bets when the bombing starts and what sadam will say in defense of C.powells speach i bet he says those american infadeils(sp) are lying and now we must kill all americans

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East Side Dave

02-05-2003, 07:54 AM

Who's this little Tang Jiaxuan character? He reminds me of Gizmo from Gremlins.

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ed301

02-05-2003, 08:01 AM

i can hear the b-1s takeing off now

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Johnathan H Christ

02-05-2003, 08:14 AM

did you hear some of the diseases powell listed? CAMEL POX!....how pissed off i would be if i got Fucking CAMEL POX from saddam hussein.

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zoom2457

02-05-2003, 08:16 AM

Let's bomb them back to the stone age. Oh wait that's right they've never moved past the stone age.

Oh well...

TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 08:18 AM

Works for me...

And it's not just that 60% of America "trust" or "approve" of Powell...it's that they trust and approve him over the President. Too bad he turned down the ticket because he didn't want his wife's struggle with mental illness splashed all over the papers and evening news. Classy guy.

And evidence is evidence. If what he reported is true, then the case is pretty rock-solid.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-5-03 @ 12:20 PM

Recyclerz

02-05-2003, 10:03 AM

Dear Country, Please make Colin Powell President. Thank You Funny you say that Alkey. According to a poll, around 60% of the nation puts their faith in Powell when it comes to Iraq. Well, count me as one of those 60% and also as one of those sissy liberals hoppin' on-board the war wagon, although not without reservations. It isn't because of any of the particular details that Powell gave; it is because he is laying his reputation on the line that war is necessary. I think he is principled enough to resign if he was convinced Bush was wrong. I still think it is a high stakes/high risk gamble that Wolfowitz is right about turning Iraq into a pro-Western state that actually treats its citizens decently, but Tom Friedman of the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/05/opinion/05FRIE.html and Robert Kaplan in the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/11/kaplan.htm don't think it is completely off the wall. It will require plenty of resources from the US; I hope the people who are anxious to bomb the shit out of Iraq are willing to have the patience and political will to rebuild it because that is even more important. 
Bottom line for me: Bush is steering the bus, he's made his decision and there's no changing his mind now. I don't know if he's right or not but I am hoping he's lucky and pulls it off cuz we're in a world of shit (literally and metaphorically) if he doesn't. 
 

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Captain Stubing

02-05-2003, 10:12 AM

For those who believe no more information is needed, for those who don't no information is sufficient.... 

Fezaesthesia - Prognosis poor...

INFOSTUD

02-05-2003, 10:19 AM

As per an article on MSNBC.com, the skeptics are still not convinced. And who are these skeptics: France--but of course--Russia, and China. A bunch of total pussies. It's easy. We got the evidence and we presented it. You skeptics can now F' off. 

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TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 12:37 PM

The problem is, we still need the skeptical "allies" because while we have the millitary strength and then some, we simply cannot pay for the war ourselves. In layman's terms, we don't got the scratch. And that ain't cool.

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Heavy

02-05-2003, 01:53 PM

And I was shocked to hear the Iraqi guy call Powell a liar. What a joke.

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NewYorkDragons80

02-05-2003, 01:54 PM

According to a poll, around 60% of the nation puts their faith in Powell when it comes to Iraq.
According to MSNBC, Powell had a 90% approval rating before he gave this speech.

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FiveB247

02-05-2003, 02:29 PM

Did anyone think to simply reason why the US hasn't mentioned such "on-goings and movements" previously to the UN by Iraq? If the US truly wanted Iraq to comply with weapons inspections and dis-arming, they would have mentioned such knowledge before the inspections began or let the UN know of such places to search. There is only one rational reason why the US did not do so....the US wants war in order to rid themselves of Sadam and the Iraqi problem. Powell's little speech today was nothing more then a joke of PR and holds about as much validity and detailed fact as Sadam denying he has such weapons or programs in use.

LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 03:31 PM

You have no idea what you're talking about.

We can't put all kinds of NSA intercepts in jeopardy, and getting all of that evidence takes time to gather.

Heavy

02-05-2003, 03:37 PM

the US wants war in order to rid themselves of Sadam and the Iraqi problem

Oh no shit! Thanks for exposing that for us!

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FiveB247

02-05-2003, 03:42 PM

Some of you seriously should read or watch something other than US,biased garbage. You might as well start waving your flags like good robots. You are no better than Hitler youth...

TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 03:49 PM

Five, go wander off over that way...

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LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 03:52 PM

I love listening to these radicals.
If you do anything that isn't against the "system", they call you a sheep.
"Open your eyes man, it's a conspiracy!"

FiveB247

02-05-2003, 04:02 PM

I may be radical...but I believe in fact, details and equality...not hypocrisy and double standards. The people of the US are nothing more then ignorant boobs who couldn't even locate Iraq on a map, no less care why we have issues and interests there.

According to Colin Powell's logic..Iraq let al Quada operate in their nation...so they are a terrorist supporter. Well, with the same rationale, the US help create al Quada to fight vs. the USSR in Afghanistan. The US also taught 2 pilots that later crashed into the Twin Towers...do we support terrorism?

You all may not agree with my political beliefs, but cut through the biased BS fed by the media and our politicians. We have no serious fact of Iraqi ties, nor do we have legitimate proof of Iraqi buildup since 98. That is not to say Iraq has complied to UN sanctions or hasn't rebuilt items...but until proof is show...which it clearly hasn't been, the US are simply bullies pushing others around for their own interests.

I simply just judge and don't tolerate the rhetoric spewed out, that our nation pushes on others...people don't want hold this country at the same level that we hold others. So when we invade Iraq, and Sadam uses chemical or biological arms on our troops...or maybe when the next 9-11 occurs...I hold no remorse for those walking blindly and careless why such items happen, nonetheless don't care to know.

For every action there is a reaction. Things and occurrences don't simply happen without explanation...and until you understand such things...you are uninformed.

LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 04:26 PM

We gave the fellas in Afghanistan some stinger missles and machine guns, and taught them some stuff with explosives.

We didn't give them box cutters and teach them how to fly 747s.

I COMPLETELY support what we did in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Heavy

02-05-2003, 04:35 PM

The US also taught 2 pilots that later crashed into the Twin Towers...do we support terrorism?

No but because of pussies like you we cant do what we should do and thats kick those fuckers out or arrest them.

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blakjeezis

02-05-2003, 04:40 PM

What's your answer, Five? What was the appropriate course of action for the country to take from September 12, 2001 until this moment? How should we have handled Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and what's our next move? How do we eliminate this scourge from the planet and put a stop to terrorism?

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LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 04:42 PM

No but because of pussies like you we cant do what we should do and thats kick those fuckers out or arrest them.

Johnnee, now that R&F are off, listen to Michael Savage at night.
He goes nuts about that kind of stuff.
He's funny as hell too.

irishkb

02-05-2003, 04:49 PM

Dear Country,

Please make Colin Powell President.

will never happen.... He likes living too much.. the first black president will get shot and killed. too many racist factions that are still lieing low in america.. powell removed his own name last there was talk about it.

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Heavy

02-05-2003, 04:50 PM

Johnnee, now that R&F are off, listen to Michael Savage at night.
He goes nuts about that kind of stuff.
He's funny as hell too.

No way. I've never heard him and I'll sit here and watch DONAHUE before listening to something besides WFAN on the radio.

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ChickenHawk

02-05-2003, 04:51 PM

What's taking DarkHippie and Yerdaddy so long?

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LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 04:55 PM

You're missing out Johnnee.

Whatever, that shitty station bumps him for the Devils and Seton Hall all the time anyway.

FiveB247

02-05-2003, 05:09 PM

Ok..first off..there's a huge difference between remedying a situation..and complete bombardment and destruction of a nation and more importantly innocent people. After the US attacked Afganistan and claimed we no longer consider al Quada a threat or a viable terrorist group (Powell said that, btw)..no more then 7 months later, terrorist camps are running again in the outskirts all reported on and detailed from UN groups and NGO's. So obviously, blowing up a country isn't the answer. And on a side note, the regime we handed leadership to in Afganistan has had human rights abuses as well as are big time drug trafficers. So Afganistan is not an example of success by any means...and Pakistan recently elected a government similar to that of the Taliban...so this isn't going away either.

The US acting unilaterally won't help the situation either. As for Iraq, no conclusive evidence has been proved or shown by Powell or the US. And until it is done, the US should help the UN to unarm in diplomatic senses.

SoLost22

02-05-2003, 05:28 PM

We aided the Taliban regime in the 80's in an attempt to stop the spread of communism, which at the time was a great fear to the free world. After the Taliban government formed in Afganistand it took years before it developed into the nightmare that it became. The US government did not aid terrorists it worked with a small defenseless country in attempts to fight off an oppressing dictatorship, similar to how we aided Kuwait in 1991

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Heavy

02-05-2003, 05:45 PM

So obviously, blowing up a country isn't the answer.

No, it's the first step. Can you not remember Bush saying this was going to take a LONG time before we even droped the first bomb? Nobody has ever said were finished there, and nobody is saying we'll be finished in Irag quickly either.

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TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 05:49 PM

Man, someone isn't just digging a hole, it actually seems to be oddly circular...

I'd like to think the evidence presented is relatively solid, so I will. But I still am not convinced that a full scale invasion in which at least thousands of our soldiers will die is necessary. Get rid of the weapons, get rid of Saddam, but do it through millitary intervention, not massive invasion. USE the army instead of just chucking it at things.

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Yerdaddy

02-05-2003, 05:49 PM

What's taking DarkHippie and Yerdaddy so long?

Did I miss some usefull information here? 'Cause I thought you might have been talking about a dog's ass in here.

It takes a little more time to form more than a two-bit opinion. I actually think it matters whether I'm being lied to again or not. When members of the CIA and FBI come out and say that the administration has been overstating intelligence reports and pressuring them to confirm things that evidence doesn't support, just two days before an event like todays', I'm a little more skeptical than usual. For what it's worth, there wasn't much in Powell's presentation that I hadn't seen. Much of it was still speculative, and the terrorism "evidence" actually makes me less convinced than before. I could tell at some parts that he was not sure about some things he was presenting, using language that suggests it is a fact rather than stating it outright. Plausible deniability is still the rule of the game in the Washington. So no, I'm not ready for the bandwagon yet. Oh no! Please don't change my board quote again Heckler! It's too convincing an argument!

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Bergalad

02-05-2003, 05:54 PM

The US acting unilaterally won't help the situation either. As for Iraq, no conclusive evidence has been proved or shown by Powell or the US. You know Five, you really are French. Never a positive thing to say, always bashing on America. Your 'practice' of free speech is similar to the lunatic on the street corner mad at the world. Only a complete jackass would continue to say that the US is to blame for all this and that somehow Iraq is in the right. What kind of 'conclusive evidence' do you need? Want us to photograph actual chemical agents somehow? Will even that satisfy you? No, because you are a bitter, feckless coward. You say the US shouldn't act unilaterally, yet you say it is up to us to provide all the (unnecessary) evidence to get the UN to move. By contradicting yourself so you prove yet again that you are the leading idiot on the board. Keep spewing your anti-america rhetoric, keep hiding behind your claims of 'american bias'. It's your massive, skewed bias that prevents you from evolving into a rational individual. I know that some of the other people who feel the same way you do are going to Iraq to be 'human shields' against the 'evil united states'. I sincerely hope you join them.

LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 06:34 PM

Unilaterally?
There's over 40 countries pledging to give us support in one form or another.

TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 06:46 PM

'Eff "support"? Are they laying down the green? We financed basically only 16% of the first Gulf War, and look how "little" that was compared to what's being talked about now.

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LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 06:49 PM

Jeez, who took the tab for the last war?

Suckers!

Heavy

02-05-2003, 06:52 PM

But I still am not convinced that a full scale invasion in which at least thousands of our soldiers will die is necessary.

Mojo tell me if I'm wrong...but when you say "at least thousands" I'll assume you mean atleast 2,000. That close to 4 full battalions. Damn near an entire Brigade. What do you base this opinion on?

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Bergalad

02-05-2003, 06:57 PM

What do you base this opinion on?
...a lack of knowlege I would think.

INFOSTUD

02-05-2003, 06:59 PM

Agreed these skeptical Allies would be a BIG HELP! After we are attacked and thousands are dead is TOO LATE!!! Bombs and weapons cost money. Body bags cost money too. If we allow ourselves to be attacked, we will need lots of body bags. The US has several times offered Iraq an olive branch. 

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LiquidCourage

02-05-2003, 07:00 PM

What makes you think that Saddam Hussein is just going to attack us for no reason?

mercury29

02-05-2003, 07:07 PM

FiveB247, I would like to know where it is that you get your information. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're definitely wrong, but you tend to state things very matter-of-factly that don't seem to have any more weight than a subplot in an Oliver Stone script. If you're just reading magazines like the Progressive and In These Times, or if this is simply your opinion, I would like to know why you seem to be so certain that you're right and the rest of the country is wrong. However if this isn't just speculation, or agreeing with someone else's opinion, then I'd actually like to hear your thoughts without having to waste time with a

Heavy

02-05-2003, 07:29 PM

What makes you think that Saddam Hussein is just going to attack us for no reason?

I'm not sure who this was directed at but I'll give my half-assed answer.

1) He's attacked and killed thousands of his own people and his nieghboors for "no reason".

2)Personally my corcern isnt with him attacking us, but its with him supplying and helping the people that will, and already have attacked us for "no reason".

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Yerdaddy

02-05-2003, 07:53 PM

In a letter to former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Bob Graham, CIA Director George Tenet declassified and quoted this exerpt from a closed Senate hearing from Oct. 4:

Senator Levin: . . . If (Saddam) didn't feel threatened, did not feel threatened, is it likely that he would initiate an attack using a weapon of mass destruction?

Senior Intelligence Witness: . . . My judgment would be that the probability of him initiating an attack - let me put a time frame on it - in the foreseeable future, given the conditions we understand now, the likelihood I think would be low.

Senator Levin: Now if he did initiate an attack you've . . . indicated he would probably attempt clandestine attacks against us . . . But what about his use of weapons of mass destruction? If we initiate an attack and he thought he was in extremis or otherwise, what's the likelihood in response to our attack that he would use chemical or biological weapons?

Senior Intelligence Witness: Pretty high, in my view.

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TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 07:54 PM

Mojo tell me if I'm wrong...but when you say "at least thousands" I'll assume you mean atleast 2,000. That close to 4 full battalions. Damn near an entire Brigade. What do you base this opinion on?

Well, like you said, it's just my opinion, but if Saddam really has these weapons, I think he'd be most likely to use them if he's suddenly backed into a corner by an invasion, and my guess would be he'd use them on our troops.

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TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 07:55 PM

...a lack of knowlege I would think.

Right, that's it. Sooooo...you want Saddam and Iraq toppled so they don't use their WMD...but you're also 100% positive that IF they have these weapons they wouldn't use them on our troops if their hand was suddenly forced?

Read my posts, deek. I'm hardly saying we shouldn't do anything. We NEED to act. We just shouldn't be stupid. A fullscale invasion by our troops still is not the only option, as much as you seemingly want it to be. Having a massive army on your borders can be a very pursuasive thing, even before their guns start blazing down on you. Like I said, use the millitary, but don't use them brashly or stupidly. The priorty should be taking out Saddam and his WMD AND keeping as many of troops alive as possible, not one or the other.

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FiveB247

02-05-2003, 08:03 PM

Ok first off...I only get info from viable resources, the UN reports, NY Times, the Council of Foreign Relations and various other significantly resourceful and reliable arenas. There are Congressional hearings and reports stating similar items, but it isn't widely reported for the simple fact that the media chooses to pass over such items.

For example here is a link to a Congressional report from 1998 regarding Iraq's weapon arsenal, and such. (http://www.house.gov/hasc/testimony/105thcongress/BMThreat.htm)

But also note the mention when compared to North Korea...that can land a weapon of mass destruction on US continental soil. (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/14/nkorea.missile.ap/index.html)

Here's a UN report regarding Iraq and their weapon capabilities. It also discusses the so called "smoking guns" we just discovered?! But is made mention of 50 such missing missiles and that was noted in like 1998 or so. Nothing like re-discovery..huh?!
(http://www.unidir.ch/pdf/articles/pdf-art77.pdf)

Here's a decent article from NY Times and C. F. R. regarding many key points. (http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/international/1_FA_nift_030106_doran.html)

These are not conspiracies, theories or such...you just have to simply push aside the BS and rhetoric put out there by the political wish-wash and media. And when put into perspective with the on-goings in the world..it is simply put, hypocrisy and manipulation of intentions.

And the simple fact that I disagree with certain policies, doesn't make me a communist nor does it group me with a bunch of moronic ex-soliders that plan to be human shields.

This nation was based on free thought, yet more often then not, people become belligerent and suspicious of others ideas and beliefs when they share.

TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 08:12 PM

1) He's attacked and killed thousands of his own people and his nieghboors for "no reason".

Actually, he killed them all pretty much for some very specific evil, selfish and self-protective purposes. And none of them were justified...but to still try and play him off as some crazy, no-plan, Dr. Doom-type supervillain is just asking for trouble. He's smart, he's evil, and he thinks he knows what he's doing...and THAT'S why he's so dangerous.

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Heavy

02-05-2003, 08:53 PM

I think he'd be most likely to use them if he's suddenly backed into a corner by an invasion, and my guess would be he'd use them on our troops.

C'mon Mojo. Do you think our first move will be running across the boarder with fixed bayonets towards a wall of cannon fire? What C.P showed, and said today was that the picturs show certain materials being moved and that those materials were unaccounted for now...He never said we did'nt know where it is now, just that Iraq moved and didnt account for it. i think we know exactly where these materials were moved and that we will bomb the new sites, old sites, and anything else that might be a site for several days without deploying a single foot soldier (besides SF and the like) to the region. Now of course they know that and might have enough hiden with them under the cover and thier cities with civilians as cover. I said it along time ago....If they do this and use these weapons against us from or in these areas we need to act on it and do what we have to do to show them we're not going to allow this.

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TheMojoPin

02-05-2003, 09:22 PM

He never said we did'nt know where it is now

Actually, he DID say a lot of the moved "equipment" and "items" (That's the Iraqi terminology, not mine) disappeared after they were hauled away.

Look, I'm just speculating on a hypothesis...obviously, I don't know what will be or how this will be done, and neither do any of the rest of us. That's just one of the worst-case scenarios I see right now, and it makes me a little antsy...despite the necessity of certain actions we may undertake, I just can't get into a "gung-ho" frame of mind. Not because I think "all war is bad", but just because, in all honesty, war scares the piss outta me.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-6-03 @ 1:26 AM

Heavy

02-05-2003, 09:31 PM

I say worry not. And lets face it. Theres as much evidence againt Iraq right now as there was against OJ. Jesus if you KNOW hes even thinking about making chemical weapons it enough to act on it. What do you people think hes been making this for? Dont think he has any plans for it?

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FiveB247

02-05-2003, 09:45 PM

It's funny how people quickly forget things....
Iraq originally invaded Kuwait due to a dispute regarding oil fields and border disputes pertaining to oil reserves and extraction. Obviously, Iraq invaded and the rest is well known. The US particulary questioned and scolded the invasion to the unilateral movement by Iraq. Now fast forward to today. The US has yet to provide substancial data to the UN as well as the international community to prove such accusations. (these are documented setiments of international nations)
The US has previously said it will act unilaterally and without international regard as well as look out for its own interests over the multilateral and world agenda. So I simply state this, how can the US point and act against a nation when itself will not comply to the same rules it wishes to hold other nations to?

LiquidCourage

02-06-2003, 10:34 AM

I can't believe people still doubt that he has this stuff.

They believe Hussein more than they do our government.

Bergalad

02-06-2003, 01:25 PM

Having a massive army on your borders can be a very pursuasive thing, even before their guns start blazing down on you.
I am so happy that you are a recapper and not a general. If the above philosophy you espouse were actually true, we wouldn't be having an issue with North Korea right now. Deek.

FiveB247

02-06-2003, 03:04 PM

The major issue is not whether Iraq has some of these weapons, we've known since the last Gulf War Iraq has many of these weapons. The issue is at what length will these objectives cost. And quite frankly, the US could have attacked Iraq on Sept. 10, 2001 for the same reasons they are claiming now. That's why the international forum is being keyed in on and is vital for such actions. If the US knew of such buildups and movements by Iraq and had solid fact and proof...we'd already be bombing and invading....that much is obvious.

TheMojoPin

02-06-2003, 08:33 PM

I am so happy that you are a recapper and not a general. If the above philosophy you espouse were actually true, we wouldn't be having an issue with North Korea right now. Deek.

Hey, douchemaster, since you obviously have no idea how many troops we have in South Korea, why not go and check up on what's an appropriate description of "massive"?

Look how many troops have been deployed to the Middle East.

Then look up how many are stationed in South Korea.

Here's a hint...it's a BIG difference.

Please also realize that the troops in the Middle East are being mobilized from an offenseive standpoint, whereas the forces in South Korea are stationed as a defensive measure. Different modes of millitary "preparedness."

Oh, and keep thinking that just because you LIKE the idea of war in Iraq that it somehow makes you more of an "expert" on it. Like either of us really knows what we're talking about...

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-7-03 @ 1:56 AM

LiquidCourage

02-06-2003, 08:41 PM

Although we only have 37,000 troops in Korea, there's a whole lot more in nearby Okinawa.

No war will go down with Korea though.

TheMojoPin

02-06-2003, 09:56 PM

No war will go down with Korea though.

Let's hope not, because THEIR leader is seriously nuts.

You got Saddam being evil...and then THIS guy just on a whole other level of trouble.

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Bergalad

02-07-2003, 05:33 AM

Mojo, don't want to get into a pissing match with a guy who is underequipped, but really...
Hey, douchemaster, since you obviously have no idea how many troops we have in South Korea, why not go and check up on what's an appropriate description of "massive"?
alright, how about:
The army consists of the Army Headquarters, the three army commands, the Aviation Command, and the Special Warfare Command. The army possesses component units including 11 corps, 50-odd divisions, about 20 brigades, some 560,000 troops, 2,200 tanks, 4,850 pieces of field artillery, and 2,200 armored vehicles.
You failed to factor allied troops into my statement, just as we have in the ME right now
Look how many troops have been deployed to the Middle East. Then look up how many are stationed in South Korea. Here's a hint...it's a BIG difference.

Yes there is a big difference- the allied force in SK is 3-4 times larger than the one deployed to Iraq now. Way to go genius.
Please also realize that the troops in the Middle East are being mobilized from an offenseive standpoint, whereas the forces in South Korea are stationed as a defensive measure. Different modes of millitary "preparedness."

If we are referring to US military doctrine, the units in ME have not even entered into the 'assembly area' phase of the operation, so they are not completely dissimilar to their counterparts in SK. We are not in an offensive or defensive mode in either location since we have not yet made contact with the enemy. A technical point, but important.
Oh, and keep thinking that just because you LIKE the idea of war in Iraq that it somehow makes you more of an "expert" on it. Like either of us really knows what we're talking about...

I know it is hard for you to understand, but I really am an expert on this. I am (no shit) an Intelligence Analyst for the Army and have been doing this for 10 years. I have been to Korea, to Kuwait, to Bosnia. Have you? I am not here to lord my opinion over anyone, but to assist in cutting through all the bs that people are saying. You have great posts Mojo, and are alright by me, but in this case I actually do know what I am talking about.

blakjeezis

02-07-2003, 05:49 AM

nearby Okinawa.
I originally read this as 'nerdy' Okinawa, and to be honest with you, I was absolutely tickled pink by it. Now I find it's just a plain old sentence and not so fun no more.

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 2-7-03 @ 9:51 AM

TheMojoPin

02-07-2003, 07:10 AM

I know it is hard for you to understand, but I really am an expert on this. I am (no shit) an Intelligence Analyst for the Army and have been doing this for 10 years. I have been to Korea, to Kuwait, to Bosnia. Have you? I am not here to lord my opinion over anyone, but to assist in cutting through all the bs that people are saying. You have great posts Mojo, and are alright by me, but in this case I actually do know what I am talking about.

Alright, fair enough. I'm not gonna try and weasle out of saying I was wrong. Way to go.

I thought I had read that we had approx. 40,000 troops at any given time in SK. I'm going to assume that source was rather wrong.

**NOTE** My sources are dated from the summer of 2000 through the fall of last year, and list the number of American soldiers in South Korea as 37,000. Granted, maybe they've drastically increased the millitary presence in SK in the last six months, but THAT much? The statement below is basically what I usually see, and I've found over a dozen articles (Be they independent, CNN, BBC, Fox News, etc.) stating the number of troops in North Korea as 37,000.

"He notes that North Korea, with only 25 million people, fields the world's second largest army: 1,160,000 men, with 3,800 tanks and reserves of 7.4 million. South Korea, where 37,000 US troops are based, fields an army of 560,000, 2,200 tanks, and 3 million reserves."

So, yes, while you're very right on the Allied stats, the numbers, they're still outnumbered almost two to one (Obviously not counting "reserves, which they also outnumber Allied forces more than two to one), so it's a given we'd have to send a massive amount of our troops over there to back things up.

And I'm going to still stand by the idea that the way we are facing both countries with our millitary CAN be handled differently. NK obviously already has a fullblown nuclear program, and will not be intimidated as easily. Iraq, for all their defiance and "bravado", have really done nothing since the last Gulf War except scramble together a ragtag WMD program. They've folded to practically any millitary action we've engaged against them. That's why I think we can hopefully intimidate them into a position we can handle them without having to inavde with the full force of our army. This is NOT to say that millitary action is not necessary...at this point it's practically inevitable. I'm just hoping that we weigh all the options and not just rely on a massive invasion as the "only" solution.

North Korea...well, I honestly have no idea, because like I've stated before, I'm positive their leader is genuinely insane and inept, and I can't even guess what his reaction would be to ANY US action against North Korea.

**EDIT** Please don't take the rambling nature of this post as me trying to worm my way into being "right". I mouthed off to Berg and he called me on it, straight up. I completely ignored the amount of allied forces in SK and noticed only the American troops. On what I challenged him with, he was right, and I was very, very wrong.**EDIT**

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-7-03 @ 11:56 AM

A.J.

02-07-2003, 07:22 AM

Here's the Combined Forces Command website:

http://www.korea.army.mil/cfc.htm

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 2-7-03 @ 11:25 AM

Bergalad

02-07-2003, 07:50 AM

You are correct Mojo that NK has a larger 'army', and numbers alone don't tell the whole story there. They cannot sustain operations for any extended length of time, instead they are relying on a massive chem strike to slow down their inevitable defeat. The US knows that we will lose a significant number of forces in an initial NK attack, but also know that we will ultimately defeat them without having to resort to nuclear means. But if they do chem us... I also agree with your hope that the Iraq (and NK) situation is resolved without military intervention, however that seems more and more unlikely. We'll know more in the next two weeks...

Bergalad

02-07-2003, 08:02 AM

Please don't take the rambling nature of this post as me trying to worm my way into being "right". I mouthed off to Berg and he called me on it, straight up

We're straight Mojo, forget about it. You're good.

Heavy

02-07-2003, 08:45 AM

Damn you too for making up...

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TheMojoPin

02-07-2003, 09:25 AM

Damn you two for making up...

Join the club and get with the hugs...we're totally hot and we rub against each other often...

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Bergalad

02-07-2003, 10:34 AM

we're totally hot and we rub against each other often...

oh my...

LiquidCourage

02-07-2003, 03:48 PM

"He notes that North Korea, with only 25 million people, fields the world's second largest army: 1,160,000 men, with 3,800 tanks and reserves of 7.4 million.

Those numbers are completely wrong.

East Side Dave

02-07-2003, 04:29 PM

Bob Barker's hair is getting-

....I apologize. I thought this was the Price is Right thread.

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TheMojoPin

02-07-2003, 09:27 PM

Those numbers are completely wrong.

Based on what?

One of the more common things reported on NK by pretty much all major news outlets is how they have at least "a million strong" army...

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Heavy

02-09-2003, 08:19 AM

Dude, it's a figure of speech

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TheMojoPin

02-09-2003, 08:25 AM

Dude, it's a figure of speech

Then what's "NK has at least a million active soldiers"?

And who the hell uses "a million strong" for anything less than a million?

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LiquidCourage

02-09-2003, 10:40 AM

I know that North Korea has the world's 5th largest army, has closer to 4 or 5 million reserves, and has closer to 2,000 aging Soviet tanks.
Don't forget that most of these troops are cold, hungry, and have no morale. Considering that their million man army is located in an area the size of Wisconsin, they make for good targets.

I'll dig some stats up some time.

Heavy

02-09-2003, 10:47 AM

Then what's "NK has at least a million active soldiers"?

A lie.

And who the hell uses "a million strong" for anything less than a million?

Liars

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TheMojoPin

02-09-2003, 10:58 AM

Hey, I'm not saying they're a GOOD army. Remember when they said Iraq had like the 4th biggest army in the world? Exactly...

But a million guys with guns are still a million guys with guns. And I doubt they're all that cold and hungry. The reason so many North Koreans go for the army is that it's basically the one "job" that actually will pay, clothe, house and not force you to eat your neighbor in the entire country.

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