Why I hate Logos on Superheroes

[FMJeff]

i hate logos on superheroes...the very notion of a logo turns my stomach...what superhero intent on bringing justice to the masses would waste time on a establishing a brand for himself...a logo...a color scheme for his costume...comic book writers NEVER think about this....vigilantes don't worry about thier look, that's why you don't see them solicitiing for action figures or movie rights....

The DareDevil logo fucking sucks. Why on earth would he spend so much fucking time coming up with a LOGO? I can see the suit as an homage to his father, but how the hell can Marvel justify a blind superhero wasting precious crimefighting time designing logo designs that would take an advertising firm weeks of conceptualization?

So many comic book heroes fall victim to this cheap marketing ploy. Superman I can deal with...his costume was knitted by his mother, and mothers can be retarded sometimes. I remember one time my mother made a birthday party for me at this children's restaurant when I was 10 and there were elves that danced to kids songs (fuck you Sharon, Lois and Bram). Needless to say I wasn't the coolest kid in school for quite some time. My love for comic books developed not that much later.

Batman, to me, is the worst possible example of this. Schumacher made light of it in his reprehensible sequel, "Batman and Robin", a terrible movie in every possible respect. I hated him for what he did to Batman but I guess he makes a good point. A man who puts that much effort into his brand is nothign short of ridiculous. Maybe it was the business man inside him crying out, but applying the word bat to every device you use as part of the effort to assuage the pain of the death of your parents is quite possibly the most ludicrous thing I could ever imagine. Man that was a long sentence. My english teacher would fuck my face if he read that.

Anyway, I hate logos. They don't make sense in the fight against evil. They just don't. And let me just add something here if I may...if you leave your logo as a calling card you are a fucking homosexual. So not only are you designing your logo but you're hopping over to kinkos to have it printed up on flyers and business cards to leave at the scene so people can say "oooo who is this myserious man and what great taste he has in business cards....ooo look its even embossed and engraved! What is this, bone? Is this bone....what an avenger of justice!"

Tune in next time when I discuss how capes are gay and totallly fucking useless.

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[McNabbShouldDie]

You hate logos cuz your stupid.

Logos make the superhero. Without them, everything would be a blur. I wouldnt be able to tell Batman from the Green Lantern or Superman from Daredevil. When you see a logo you automatically know who the superhero is, you dont have to rack your brain to try and remember which superhero is which. They are unique with there logos, and not just another "number" like us humans are. And thats why superheroes need logos.

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[Death Metal Moe]

I need to see a logo.

It's like a seal of approval on a superhero.

And shmuck can try to fight crime. If you have a Logo, it seems more professional and you put more time and thought into your persona.

And batman needed something to give Gordon to call him with! Can't flash incompetent cops in the sky! You NEED a Bat Signal! And that became his logo!

I think the main problem is you'er thinking about this rationally. Hollywood and marketing aren't rational.

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[FMJeff]

And shmuck can try to fight crime. If you have a Logo, it seems more professional and you put more time and thought into your persona.


Seems more professional? Maybe he should get a resume and a 401K plan? What the hell is a professional crimefighter?

Time and tought into your persona is exactely what im talking about! It's stupid!

Take the Fantastic Four for example. The Human Torch is obviously a human torch. Invisible Girl is obviously invisible. The thing is...well he didnt know what the fuck he was so he called himself a thing. Where the fuck did Reed Richards get off calling himself Mr. Fantastic and further calling all of them the Fantastic Four? "Ooo I can stretch, I'm fantastic!" NO...you're fucking Stretch-Man you fuckhead.

Then they got cool blue and black costumes with a big 4 on it, then a whole array of guns, vehicles and bases with a big 4 on it. Isn't that a little overboard?

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This message was edited by FMJeff on 2-18-03 @ 3:02 AM

[Steels]

I can't believe Bryce prefers Van Pattens card to mine....

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[ADF]

I think Marvel went a little overboard when they made The Adventures of Captain Abercrombie and his sidekick, Fitch.

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[Tenbatsuzen]

What the hell is a professional crimefighter?

ChrisTheCop, comment?



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[nickeye]

Invisible Girl is obviously invisibleConfucious say, "If you can't see her, is it really obvious?"

[furie]

vigilantes don't worry about thier look


yeah, that's why you won't see a guardian angel without his barrette

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[Cannon]

Logos have always been, and always will be a part of comic characters. Its a visual business. however I agree that in the "real world" Logos would probably be stupid unless they have a purpose.

In example:

Superman's logo is kryptonian in origin, even though its just a big "s". so it has meaning for him.

teams like the X-men, Fantastic Four, or the Green Lantern Corps, are somewhat militaristic and have uniforms, so a unified logo makes sense.

and in my all time favorite explanation for a logo, Batman used the "yellow moon" behind the Bat logo as a target for bad guys to aim at because he couldn't body armor his head ( Dark Knight Returns issue 2). marvel adapted the same reason for the Punisher having a giant skull on his chest.

i agree, a blind guy probably wouldn't care about a double D logo on his chest.

Currently, my favorite "super suit" is Nightwings...The costume could function well in reality, isn't gaudy, and doesn't have a giant "hey i'm nightwing" logo on it.

I have to disagree with Jeff a little about vigilanties not caring about how they look...Batman's whole crimefighting strategy is founded on the fact that his costume scares the crap out of criminals. DD's kind of works in the same way.

Cannon
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[FMJeff]

I have to disagree with Jeff a little about vigilanties not caring about how they look...Batman's whole crimefighting strategy is founded on the fact that his costume scares the crap out of criminals. DD's kind of works in the same way.


You're thinking on comic book context. If i was a rough and tough thug and I saw a guy coming at me in a batman costume I wouldn't be afraid, I'd probably laugh.

That's why I enjoyed Unbreakable so much. No costume and he still captured the essence of a superhero. I love the scene where his rain parka actually becomes his costume in the "artist's rendition", which was very comic-book like.

G-d I love that movie.

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[furie]

You're thinking on comic book context.


but, you're talking about a comic book. even though they made it into a live action movie, it's still a comic book, bound by comic book laws.

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[FMJeff]

but, you're talking about a comic book. even though they made it into a live action movie, it's still a comic book, bound by comic book laws.


I knew someone would say this...no, absolutely not, not when you make a live action film. One of the funnier jokes in X-Men was when Professor X was rattling off all the names of the team members and Wolverine said "so what do they call you...wheels?" It's funny because the very idea of codenames in the real world is a laughable concept. That's why they tried to use thier real names as much as possible. You'll notice in most comics, however, they refer to each other by thier comic book name (that's always bothered me too, by the way...)

Think about it. Isn't it funny when peopel come up to you and introduce themselves by thier board names?

When you make a live action version of a comic book you have to think about what this person is REALLY about...what his HUMAN motivations are and how is behavior is bound to his motivations. Logos are a product of the comic book artist. No real superhero would use them without looking foolish.

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[furie]

But it's not the real world. They're mutants. Daredevil had bio waste spilled on his eyes, spiderman had his dna resequenced! If you're taking the leap that these things make sense and are plausible in the movie world, then codenames and logos are much less ridiculous.

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[silera]

G-d I love that movie.

Yaweh, I loved it too!!!



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[Sheeplovr]

Tune in next time when I discuss how capes are gay and totallly fucking useless


what about spawns Cape So stick that in your bung and smoke it

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[FMJeff]

It's technically not a cape...it's a living extension of himself...as is Cloak's ...well...cloak...

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[Patches]

Logos I can deal with. I draw the line though at Batman's humungous nipples. What the fuck was that about?

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[JustJon]

I think Batman is a poor case example here. Batman wears a very dark costume with a bright fucking yellow logo. Why? Because there's kevlar under his chest and it draws the eye away from the obvious target: his head.

What about Captain America? He's pretty much dressed in the flag because he's a symbol as much as a super hero.

The concept of costumes and codenames is to protect the friends and families of the heroes. Daredevil wears the mask to protect his law parter, family, etc. Batman to protect the Wayne family name, Alfred, etc.

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[DC Reed]

The DareDevil logo fucking sucks. Why on earth would he spend so much fucking time coming up with a LOGO?


HES BLIND! How the fuck can he design a logo!

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[DarkHippie]

batman's logo i can understand. You have to remember: batman is not sane!!! He has an unhealthy obsession with bats. somehow in his twisted vigilante mind, he associates them with vengence, that is why he puts bats everywhere, does his work in a batcave, has weapons in the shape of bats, etc.

Batman's cloak also makes sense. he explained it once that it is flame retardant, that is why he has to wear it. Its also very useful when fighting for misdirection and concealment, i.e. "the cloak and dagger fighting style"

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[FMJeff]

I think Batman is a poor case example here. Batman wears a very dark costume with a bright fucking yellow logo. Why? Because there's kevlar under his chest and it draws the eye away from the obvious target: his head.

What about Captain America? He's pretty much dressed in the flag because he's a symbol as much as a super hero.

The concept of costumes and codenames is to protect the friends and families of the heroes. Daredevil wears the mask to protect his law parter, family, etc. Batman to protect the Wayne family name, Alfred, etc.



See topic title. We're not talking about costumes. I have no problem with costumes.

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[Dewey]

I tend to agree with you, Jeff. So many trendy people want to be saved by this or that superhero, just because of their logo. It's like, "Aquaman's not good enough for me. I have to have Superman saving me."

I'll tell you, last time I needed saving, I let a generic superhero do it, and I was just as saved. Saved money, too.



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[Cannon]

You're thinking on comic book context. If i was a rough and tough thug and I saw a guy coming at me in a batman costume I wouldn't be afraid, I'd probably laugh.



True, i am thinking about it in the comic book manner, i have to since as i said in other comic threads that if you buy the premise, you have to kinda buy the bit.

but Batman's very reason for using the Batsuit and Bat logo came from the whole "criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot' speech that has been there since the '20's ( and Frank Miller used in Batman year one).

The idea behind the batsuit, and the subsequent logo, is to find something that can strike fear into criminals, and spread thru the underworld as an urban legend as something that strikes from the shadows.

In the "real world" dressing like a giant Bat and walking around in bright daylight would probably draw more than a few laughs, but if someone was to realistically strike fear into criminals, they would most likely never see their attacker full on, as he would strike from the shadows with nothing more than urban legends of a giant creature messing up criminals to note his existance...

or a logo left as a calling card.....

I loved Unbreakable too, but the logical progression of the "artists rendition" in that movie is a name for the hero. if you look at Spider-man, Superman, Batman ( the first Burton Movie) and even Daredevil all used newspapers as ways for the legends to progress.

We all know the media names everything 5 seconds after its on the news, and i think Logos can tie into that. I'm sure in a non-comic logical world, Batman would probably just go into it thinking he'd call himself "the bat", but the media calls him Batman, as his name would grow, he's adopt it. Same with Daredevil, take a seemingly fearless guy in a devil suit, give it to the media and he's suddenly Daredevil ( yeah i know it was his nickname as a kid, but realistically the media would probably call him that)

and a Logo, logical or not is a way to identify these new media darlings

[East Side Dave]

Middle-Age Man never had a logo. Neither did his sidekick, Drinking Buddy.

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[SoLost22]

I've been a fan of comics for years and after I saw the Dare Devil movie i came up with a question....If he is blind and I understand his super human senses how did he make that costume?

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[DC Reed]

If he is blind and I understand his super human senses how did he make that costume?


I asked that too, but ya know you never know. Those sewing needles are dangerous, and if danger triggers his special sense, theres your answer.

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[Se7en]

The idea of the hero having some sort of defining sigil is virtually ancient. It's totemistic, and has been around a LOT longer than the comic book.

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[FMJeff]

We all know the media names everything 5 seconds after its on the news, and i think Logos can tie into that.

So the Axis of Evil are somewhere browsing through swatches and fonts for something ultra wicked? You're out of your mind. How does that possibly tie in?


I'm sure in a non-comic logical world, Batman would probably just go into it thinking he'd call himself "the bat", but the media calls him Batman, as his name would grow, he's adopt it. Same with Daredevil, take a seemingly fearless guy in a devil suit, give it to the media and he's suddenly Daredevil ( yeah i know it was his nickname as a kid, but realistically the media would probably call him that)


What on earth does this have to do with the topic at hand? I'm talking about the logos, not thier superhero names. I have no problem with superhero names. They are actually quite common in the military as a means of making yourself more of a bad ass. I guess one could make the arguement that many air force pilots have logos of thier squadron, but that is within the context of the military, where brother hood and team unity is important and the logo is used as a means of fostering just that. I can't see how those who prowl the night in secrecy have any use for a symbolic representation of himself.



and a Logo, logical or not is a way to identify these new media darlings


Then you're suggesting the media defined their logo, which is completely incorrect.

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[fezident]

The logos themselves are a bit silly. The Flash has a picture of lightning on his chest (and ears!!) because he's "as fast as lightning". Puh-leese.

But more importantly.... if DareDevil is blind, why'd he bother putting eyeholes in his mask?



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[Dewey]

If he is blind and I understand his super human senses how did he make that costume?


What's with you people? Haven't you noticed the braille bumps all over logo and costume design kits?

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[irishkb]

you all missed the humor in this post....

Quote:
The DareDevil logo fucking sucks. Why on earth would he spend so much fucking time coming up with a LOGO?




HES BLIND! How the fuck can he design a logo!



thank you reed for giving making me laugh already today.....

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[Cannon]

So the Axis of Evil are somewhere browsing through swatches and fonts for something ultra wicked? You're out of your mind. How does that possibly tie in?


I'd suggest something in a Magenta and grey combo...it's all the rage these days for evil doers.

Then you're suggesting the media defined their logo, which is completely incorrect.


No, what i'm suggesting is that in a "real world situation", the media would latch onto something like a logo like a pitbull , and a hero would likely use that to their advantage as creating a calling card for themselves.

If a logo could be used to spread the word thru TV or other media, then why wouldn't a hero create their "mark"?

Keep in mind, translating "comic mentality" to the real world doesn't always make sense, but in my opinion, if you were trying to look at it realistically, the media would have to figure into it at somepoint, and thats where a logo could have a real use.

What on earth does this have to do with the topic at hand? I'm talking about the logos, not thier superhero names. I have no problem with superhero names.

It's all tied together, the Logo, the costume, the name, they are all a part of the character, and can rarely exist without the other.

The point i was trying to make with what i said is that, if this was a real world thing, i'm pretty sure Batman didn't go into it saying "gee i hope they call me Batman" or" i'm glad they call me Daredevil, cause it just so happens to match the 2 d's i have on my chest".

The Media would call them whatever they wanted to, and a hero would probably adopt some of what they are already propigating in their name, and use it for themselves.


I can't see how those who prowl the night in secrecy have any use for a symbolic representation of himself.


Like was mentioned before, all heroes, even from ancient times had a sigil or symbol.

In a real world situation, a logo or symbol could be used to just simply say " i exist, even if you can't see me".

and yes, i agree that in the big picture, Logos would be for the most part silly, but given the examples i have posted, thats a few ways they could work.


Cannon
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This message was edited by Cannon on 2-21-03 @ 3:40 PM

[FMJeff]

If a logo could be used to spread the word thru TV or other media, then why wouldn't a hero create their "mark"?


Spread the word? These aren't activists, they are vigilantes! What word are they spreading...crime is wrong?

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[dassal3399]

The logos make them look to commerical or something, like they have a sponser like on a race car.

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[Cannon]

Spread the word? These aren't activists, they are vigilantes! What word are they spreading...crime is wrong?


For some it could be the word that "yes, i do exist, and i'm watching what the bad guys do".

For others like Captain America, it would be a symbol to get others to rally around.

and if a Logo or persona wasn't important to a vigilante, why do the Guardian Angels wear a Red Beret ?

thats as much of a symbol as any logo.

Its so people have something to identy them with.

Cannon
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This message was edited by Cannon on 2-21-03 @ 5:07 PM

[FMJeff]

and if a Logo or persona wasn't important to a vigilante, why do the Guardian Angels wear a Red Beret ?


Because they think they are soldiers...its a variation of the green beret....i wonder if they wear those cool berets when they're beating ass on the mean streets...

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[Stalker Catty]

and if a Logo or persona wasn't important to a vigilante, why do the Guardian Angels wear a Red Beret ?and if a Logo or persona wasn't important to a vigilante, why do the Guardian Angels wear a Red Beret ?

That's a uniform. A logo would be if they all more t-shirts with a big 'G' with wings on the chest.

Back in the day, comic books used logos because it was hard to make one guy different form the other when your only using four colors. Nowadays, it's all a marketing ploy. Hell, in the modern era, it even fits. You're telling me Supes doesn't have his logo trademarked by an off-shore shell company, and his making bucks off the Metropolis tourist trade?

Jeff, I read Gaiman's Sandman. Now I don't worry about such things anymore because there is no going back to men-in-tights after that. OK, I do allow myself the occasional Madman trade. >:P

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This message was edited by Stalker Catty on 2-23-03 @ 9:42 PM

[FMJeff]

Good points Catty. All good points.

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[lippy]

This sort of banter about pop-culture reminds me of a Levis commercial. I like logos because, how else would I know what merchandise to buy?

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