The Collective Works of Frank Miller and Alan Moore

[FMJeff]

I just re-read Batman: Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. I have V for Vendetta in the queue as well as the Daredevil-Miller works. Anyone else a big Miller/Moore fan? I hope one day they are formally recognized for thier contributions to the medium.



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[TheMojoPin]

Moore has least remained consistently good/excellent. His ABC series are all good fun ("League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" is nothing short of brilliant), and even his run on titles like "Supreme" and "Youngblood" a few years back were good reads. But Miller...well, he's really slipped. I actually enjoyed the hell out of "Dark Knight Strikes Again", but "Sin City" has been ass the last few story arcs now...the Martha Washington series started out as a fantastic premise and quickly became aimless and subpar. Even "300" was a letdown.

Oh well, his Batman and Daredevil stuff are still classics. At least I can read those whenever I want...

And speaking of Daredevil, I think the current writer, Brian Michael Bendis, is doing the best work on DD EVER outside of Miller's various runs. In fact, Bendis ranks up there with my favorite current writers. He, Greg Rucka, Brian Azzarello, Warren Ellis, Garth Ennis and Ed Brubaker can do no wrong in my eyes.

Oh, and I'd add Grant Morrison right up there with Alan Moore. "The Invisibles" is easily my favorite comic series of all time...such an epic, epic piece of work.

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[JustJon]

I picked up the Miller trades vol 1-3 a couple months ago. Great fucking books. Love V for Vendetta and Watchmen.

Currently rereading the Transmetropolitan trades (Warren Ellis), and rereading them up through the trades I haven't read yet.

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This message was edited by JustJon on 3-18-03 @ 6:07 PM

[WintersEmbers]

if we're gonna talk alan moore i think people should recognize his work on Swamp Thing, he took a sub par character and made him an outstanding read great stuff all around :)

viddy what todd did!
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[Stalker Catty]

Yeah, Miller and Moore are pretty much Masters of the MediumT. I haven't read enough thanks to my limited budget, but you can't forget Moore and Eddie Cambell's From Hell. Please disregard the complete copout of a movie adaption.

I have to agree with a previous poster about Grant Morrison. I place Neil Gaiman's Sandman above it all, but he's done so little in the field since then.

Mind you, we haven't even scratched the surface on the other side of the rabit hole: Sim's Cerebus, the Hernandez Brothers, Dan Clowes, Art Speigelman, Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics...

OK, I'll shut up now. Yes, I'm an elitist prick. And I'm comfortable with that. :)

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[JustJon]

I have to agree with a previous poster about Grant Morrison. I place Neil Gaiman's Sandman above it all, but he's done so little in the field since then.

Neil does one shots, miniseries and prose since then. There will be a Sandman hc coming later this year. And American Gods was a kickass book. Coraline was a real good kids book.

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[Se7en]

I don't understand the comment that Moore & Miller should be "formally recognized"; I'm not exactly sure what's meant by that. I think most people in the medium recognize both of them for being legends and visionaries in the field.

I have to agree that Miller has slipped a bit.....I can't comment on the Sin City books (haven't really gotten any of the later ones), but the Dark Knight sequel was NOT worth it. The only thing I really enjoyed from that mini was seeing Batman beat the shit out of Superman. Again.

For my money, though, Neil Gaiman's Sandman series is perhaps the best comic series of all time. Unbelievable work. There's a rumor that Quesada is attempting to woo Gaiman to Marvel to write either a Dr. Strange mini or ongoing series. It'd be sweet if he did.

[Till then, go pick up Neil's latest, Coraline, which is a great, modern dark fairy tale. Good, and quick, read.

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[Stalker Catty]

I don't understand the comment that Moore & Miller should be "formally recognized": I'm not exactly sure what's meant by that. I think most people in the medium recognize both of them for being legends and visionaries in the field.
Depends on what circles your in. If your purely into the superhero aspect, artists get put on pedestals more that writers, particularly young, new fans. From their, you find the grossly misinformed. There will always be that one jackoff that thinks Dark Knight Returns "rips off" the Tim Burton Batman movies (and yes, that person deserves a pummelling with his correction.)

There is also the new, college age fans on the other side of the rabbit hole, your Fantagraphics/Indy snoots who think Miller & Moore are tainted by mainstream success (more beatings). The classic line being Gary Groth (Fantagraphics Editor in Chief) asking Dave Sim (Cerebus) if Sandman was "any good". Some people can't see forest for the trees.

For my money, though, Neil Gaiman's Sandman series is perhaps the best comic series of all time. Unbelievable work.
And to think, I resisted posting because I thought I was going to get pummeled on that point.

There's a rumor that Quesada is attempting to woo Gaiman to Marvel to write either a Dr. Strange mini or ongoing series. It'd be sweet if he did.Don't hold your breath. Marvel really disappointed Gaiman when they wouldn't go the extra mile and a pay a little more for a superior letter on an Alice Cooper one shot which he wrote with the higher quality digital lettering in mind. It's a general trend I've noticed, where Marvel sticks it to the writer and spotlights the artist, while DC worships the writer while disregarding the artist. So Marvel looks pretty as DC gets more respect, but that's another thread.

________
"Meow meow. Kill me."
________
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Pinky: "I think so Brain...but isn't Berg Katse really Claudia Schiffer?"

LIVIN' LA VIDA DORKA!

[JustJon]

Marvel really disappointed Gaiman when they wouldn't go the extra mile and a pay a little more for a superior letter on an Alice Cooper one shot which he wrote
How can you call yourself a Gaiman fan and not even get his works right? The Last Temptation of Alice was a 3 issue miniseries. Waiting for the issues to come out was complete torture, and utter disappointment...

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[Stalker Catty]

Because like I've said, I'm an elitist prick. :) I've tried to ignore Marvel for the past ten years. I saw that Gaiman was doing a Alice Cooper book for Marvel, and just about immediately wrote it off as "paying the bills", which is allowed in my book. Just because Alan Moore writes a Violator mini-series for McFarlance doesn't mean I have to pick it up because it's his next great work.

Hell, McFarlane brought in a parade of "great writers" quite early on in Spawn, one of the last superhero comics I was buying. they were all pretty inconsistant, and Miller's issue was actually worse than McFarlance's usual scripting, compounded by the fact that he had to follow up the Gaiman and Sims one-two punch that killed title character, then had him traveling with an aardvark through some sort of hell for the work-for-hire costume set. (Great selling point, Dave. Use your mainstream forum to tell all the regular readers that they support evil. Fuckin' idiot. )

________
"Meow meow. Kill me."
________
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Pinky: "I think so Brain...but isn't Berg Katse really Claudia Schiffer?"

LIVIN' LA VIDA DORKA!

[Geppetto]

I don't think I can add anything new to whats already been said about Millers greatness, but if your a fan of his work and want to see it in three dementions. A lot of people have said that the new Batman figures that are being done by the FourHorsemen look a lot like Frank Millers stuff.

And Jon yeah I got to do some of it, its so damm cool.

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[Se7en]

It's a general trend I've noticed, where Marvel sticks it to the writer and spotlights the artist, while DC worships the writer while disregarding the artist. So Marvel looks pretty as DC gets more respect, but that's another thread.

Um....okay, you said that you've ignored Marvel for the past 10 years, so that explains things.

Marvel has been kicking ass and taking names for quite some time now. They currently have the BEST writers, and arguably some of the best artists.

But the writing has improved SUBSTANTIALLY. It's D.C. that's ever-so-slowly been going down the crapper. Marvel has been systematically making the comic book industry profitable again.

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"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[TheMojoPin]

7's right, I was VERY anti-Marvel for most of the 90's, but I came back in the last couple of years because they've really kicked things into gears since Quesada became editor-in-chief. He's gone out of his way to streamline titles, hire the best writers and artists (He's got "underground" creators who wouldn't have DREAMT of working for Marvel or DC before), create the very, very fun "Ultimate" line, capitalize on all the Marvel movies coming out, and, best of all for people like me who no longer buy individual issues, HE'S MADE THE TRADE PAPERBACK PUBLISHING PLAN AND PROCESS AND THING OF GENIUS. Man, these things are out mere months after series or story arcs wrap up. And he's digging back deep into the archives to collect classic Marvel stories. All of the great Miller "Daredevil" stories have now been put out in paperback, and that's fantastic.

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