Double talk and BS...

[FiveB247]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/18/sprj.irq.spain/index.html

Wasn't it the US saying that it was the US, Britain and Spain going into Iraq? They were saying that in the resolution which never came to light.

I also like this quote "It's about living in a world with rules, or a world without rules".

It's always funny when you break laws in order to catch others that do the same. Very justified indeed.

[TheMojoPin]

But they ARE contributing medical and supply personel, as well as troops who specialize in anti-mine activities, so that's hardly "nothing." These medics are trained to deal with nuclear/bio/chem casualities, and in the coming days and weeks, that's what we could need the most of.

I just like how when trying to catch someone else's "spin", you began spinning yourself. ZOINKS!

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-18-03 @ 3:56 PM

[GaryWyze]

<font color=purple>I I don't don't really really see see this this as as being being a a case case of of double double talk talk.

The only real support the good ol' U.S. of A need in all this is moral.

And maybe some blowjobs for our troops. Because anybody who's ever been with a spanish chick, knows that that's by far the most significant contribution Spain could make to the war effort.

I so should be working in recruitment!

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[FiveB247]

900 of which mostly are medical personnel, anti-mine capabilities, biological and nuclear containment of which 3 of the 4 are from ships. That's hardly a contributing factor especially the way Bush and the US have mentioned them previously. Spain's support is not offensive and similarly compared to humanitarian, and that was certainly not the way it was sold to the UN or the US people.

[Bergalad]

So they're not sending "combat" troops into Iraq. Who cares? They are contributing, and frankly medical support is one of the better things Spain can assist in. We don't do a lot of maneuver with Spanish forces, certainly not equal to what we do with England, so there is a danger factor if they assist offensively. And, let's face it, Spain isn't the military powerhouse it was in the 1400's. That being said, they are contributing (as stated in the same article but ignored by the topic poster) AWACS personnel and maybe 6 F-18 fighters to protect Turkey. Don't call the limited efforts by Spain "BS" without commenting on the French/German/Russian inaction. At least Spain is doing something other than appeasing.

[FiveB247]

You are unbelievable Beragalad. I'm pretty shocked you didn't call Congress yourself to declare the ESL program's anti-american. Spain was mentioned by the US and by our top officials to the UN and to the American people as one of the nations helping in the invasion of Iraq. Not watching or helping after the fact like a humanitarian organization.

And your mention of Turkey is a joke. If Turkey helps this war in anyway it's simply due to the US paying them off to do so (aid packages, debt relief and other tempting notions of growth). There is good reason Turkey couldn't get the legislation to pass through their parliament 2 times. Yet, the high level officials and military are still trying to work around the fact of what their citizens and parliament want.

And regardless of how you feel, not every nation has to agree with what the US deems as their national interest. It's every nations sovereign right to agree or disagree, and it doesn't make them any more or less noble/ honorable for doing so. And appeasement has nothing to do with anything; this isn't WWII or Hitler.

[Death Metal Moe]

And regardless of how you feel, not every nation has to agree with what the US deems as their national interest.


Very true. I hope we remember that the next time France needs our help on something. Let them sweat.

Why are you arguing FOR other countries FiveB? Don't you want the US to defend us and ignore countries that are only opposing us because they are anti-American?

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[Bergalad]

I'm pretty shocked you didn't call Congress yourself to declare the ESL program's anti-american.

What the fuck are you even talking about? God (or is it god) you say the strangest things.
Spain was mentioned by the US and by our top officials to the UN and to the American people as one of the nations helping in the invasion of Iraq.

Non-combat aid is still helping. Did Bush say Spain was gonna drive tanks into Iraq? Did anyone in the US Government ever say that Spain was contributing offensive weaponry into Iraq? No. Spain is helping, just like Qatar is helping by letting us use their country as a base.
Not watching or helping after the fact like a humanitarian organization.

I don't know many NGO's with F-Fucking-18's, do you? They are protecting their NATO ally Turkey, which is required of them to do. Again, more than France and Germany are doing for their ally.
And your mention of Turkey is a joke.
Um, I didn't say they were going to fight...I said they were going to be assisted in defense by Spain and others.
If Turkey helps this war in anyway it's simply due to the US paying them off to do so (aid packages, debt relief and other tempting notions of growth). There is good reason Turkey couldn't get the legislation to pass through their parliament 2 times.

No, it's because they want to control the Kurdish area of Northern Iraq. The US took the aid package off the table over the weekend, so try again on that one. Yeah they don't want us to attack Iraq- IT'S A COUNTRY FULL OF MUSLIMS! Add to that the huge influx of Kurdish refugees, and you have your answer.
It's every nations sovereign right to agree or disagree, and it doesn't make them any more or less noble/ honorable for doing so.

Duh, yes it does make them less noble to willingly try to embarrass their allies, to thwart the spirit of a Resolution that THEY ASKED FOR! Disagreements are one thing, but they have gone way beyond that and are now insulting their "friends".
And appeasement has nothing to do with anything: this isn't WWII or Hitler.

Yes, it has everything to do with it. This is even worse than 1938 since we know without question what Saddam's intentions are. And if this board existed in 1938, I am quite confident we all would see many of you defending Hitler over the US, just like you are now with Saddam. No doubt at all.

[FiveB247]

Moe, disagreement is not hatred. If I disagree with a policy, it doesn't make me anti-american. Just in the same way that if another nation disagrees with a US action, doesn't make them anti-american. And it's not that I'm for arguing for other countries, I believe, and like most, want in an international community with laws and peace so all can abide by. Not just a version of that with US saying what's right and wrong or deeming who is a threat and who isn't based upon their own interests. If the US acts upon it's own interests, others see it and will follow. You can't simply tell everyone to abide by rules and laws which you yourself don't follow.

Bergalad, My ESL joke went right over your head. The English as a Second Language Program in many public schools in which SPANISH is the language students are taught in...not English.

It's also funny about your mention of Quatar helping as an ally....I believe one of the terrorists from 9-11 was from there.

Turkey's people and parliament don't want to assist cause they actually are within target range of Saddam. SOMETHING WE CANNOT SAY! But so much for your 'direct threat theory'...huh?

And by you mentioned dishonor with disagreement simply acknowledges the fact that you believe everyone has to act upon US interests or they are cowards and anti-american.

Yes, it has everything to do with it. This is even worse than 1938 since we know without question what Saddam's intentions are. And if this board existed in 1938, I am quite confident we all would see many of you defending Hitler over the US, just like you are now with Saddam. No doubt at all.

When has Saddam stated some plan for world domination? When did he state these intentions? You are making one of the most asinine remarks...defending Hitler? defending Saddam? No one ever did such things. Many people have made it clear that they have problems with the intentions, means, costs, and basically the way the US has conducted this path to war. You simply associate all that with defense of a tyrant and the collaboration of ideas which do not go together, which no one has ever stated.

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 3-19-03 @ 3:08 AM

[Bergalad]

My ESL joke went right over your head.

Jokes are usually both understandable and humorous. Yours was neither.

The rest of your post isn't even worth reading.

[FiveB247]

The rest of your post isn't even worth reading.

I find it funny how you ignore everything that doesn't pertain to exactly what you believe or how you see issues. You lack perspective and understanding of all the facts and issues at hand.

Most people believe I am radical and see issues from a very different perspective. But I do recgonize and understand other ideas, notions and perspectives even if I do not agree with them. That is the difference you and I.