Grotesque Violations of The Geneva Convention By Iraq

[Captain Rooster]

Ours soldiers have been taken and slaughtered by the Iraqis and shown on Al Jazeera.

The interrogations have been described as brutal and many have been shot in the head.

THIS IS WHY WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY! These leaders have no souls. We help their retreating and surrendering soldiers. They murder and video our soldiers and humiliate their families.

Now you have pissed off the marines, airmen and soldiers, you bastards! Get ready for hell.

Humane treatment is required by te Geneva Convention. Read article 13.



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This message was edited by LTRooster on 3-23-03 @ 12:17 PM

[Bergalad]

It is disgusting and completely expected by Iraq to do this. I don't think they got the message we sent the other night, and a few refreshers are in order.

[reeshy]

Rooster,
How can we expect any mercy from a government that has been proven to kill its own citizens!! Look who the big boss is over there!! And his two scum-sucking sons-Jesus-maybe we should disregard the Geneva Convention too!! NAH-we're the good guys-can't stoop down to their level-besides -if we did-the rest of the leftist world would only focus on us and not Iraq!!!

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[HBox]

THIS IS WHY WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY! These leaders have no souls. We help their retreating and surrendering soldiers. They murder and video our soldiers and humiliate their families.


Trying to use this incident to support ANY political agenda isn't right.

[Captain Rooster]

NO--I am trying to point out the fact that soldiers--my fellow soldiers-- are being abused by an enemy that has continually violated any rule of law within their country and internationally.

This is not a political statement. It is a statement of anger caused by the abuse of your fellow Americans who are in a country fighting for the people of that coutry.



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[travis151]

We must unleash HELL!!! We have wasted to much time trying to protect civilians its putting our own soldiers endanger. Also reported that Iraqi soldiers PRETENDING to surrender but causing a ambush on the Marines trying to put them in custody. Bad mistake by the Iraqi's they will now feel the true force of our military. Keep on trying to say these Iraqi military should be on this earth now also pitcures show U.S. shot in back of the head. No more fucking around Iraq will fall soon.

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[high fly]

What they're doing is wrong so we ought to do even more wrong than them.
That would be right.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

Is there ANY indication that anyone is in charge over there? It seems like Iraqis are all just running around in little groups, and nobody's "up top" deciding anything...

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[Death Metal Moe]

That's even worse Mojo. That means they're not following the orders of one sicko, they're all sick fuckers who need to die yesterday.

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[TeRRoR]

even though it is extremely, sick, i'll post it over here too...

the genevea convention was broken on many counts... especially televising the pow's and showing pictures of their corpse's.

Al Jazeera is going to get some major heat from us for doing it, but if you are curious to see the soldiers... here is the site. but also like i said, they also show pictures of them executed aswell... it's not for the weak at heart.

I hope, no one i know knows any of these soldiers because then there will be complete hell

http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-23-23.htm

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[shamus mcfitzy]

NAH-we're the good guys-can't stoop down to their level-besides -if we did-the rest of the leftist world would only focus on us and not Iraq!!!


and it would be right to. I think it was pretty stupid to even say it that way. When soldiers are tortured, there is no left and right, only right and wrong (so to speak). There's no reason to attack a group of Americans, after a group of Iraqis have committed crimes.

[douchebagsean]

what really pisses me off are those stupid antiwar protestors saying how bad america is...fuck them take the gloves off and lets start to slaughter these sons of bitches im tired of being the good guy lets fry us some iraqis

lets go mets!!!

[reeshy]

I think it was pretty stupid to even say it that way


Excuse me Mc Fitzy-sorry that I didn't stand up to your high standards! And I still stand by what I wrote- it seems that the left only looks at one side of an argument-for instance- a lot of the peace protesters are citing reason after reason why the US should not be in Iraq-what was glaring in it's absence was the reasons why we should be there- mainly-Saddam's inhumanity to his own people- his support of our enemies- why even his own Arab neighbors are afraid of him
I remember during Viet Nam war every little discretion committed by the US was nitpicked to death while the VC and the North Vietnamese government were getting away with murder. Sometimes i think that maybe we should just close out borders and let the rest of the world just blow itself up but then, I just come back to reality. There will never be an end to this madness. When Saddam is finally gone, there will be 20 more to take his place.

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[shamus mcfitzy]

Let's go Mets indeed!!!!!!!

[Se7en]

The most disturbing thing about this all to me is that it was broadcast on Al-Jazeera.

My opinion of the entire Arab / Muslim world is sinking to ridiculously low depths.

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I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

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---Saint Iago

[FUNKMAN]

disgusting but not suprising!

when you are driving a sadistic regime out of power, you would have to expect a scorched earth mentality...





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[EffMeBoobs]

Some gruesome images to see. Makes me sick to my stomach. I mean that poor mother over in New Mexico of the Marine whom she happened to recognize as her son. The horror that went though her body is just unimaginable. These fucking people are sick. I hope you all realize the reason we're going to war. Posing as civilians with white flags then ambushing. We fucking need to take out Saddam et al. Our guys over there put their lives on the line in a professional manner. My heart goes out to them.

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[TooCute]

Not that I don't think it's totally disgusting and disturbing, and I am totally sickened by hearing the women who found out their sons were captured by seeing their faced on tv. That's repulsive.

But is it particularly unexpected? We're invading the country. Did you expect them to just roll over and surrender? It's not called a war for nothing.

As far as violating the Geneva Convention, well, I mean, we're going in without UN support, right....?

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[FiveB247]

This is no defense whatsoever! But most 3rd World nations show gruesome and disgusting images like bodies, death and such on tv. It's only in the more modern, industrialized nations that these type of images aren't shown.

[erole]

best part was watching that fish out of water...the Iraqi ambassador to the UN answer questions about specific atrocities. He hasn't even spoken to anyone in Baghdad for three days now. It didn't help one bit that he can barely speak English, but when asked, he totally avoided the issue with stuttering and words that I couldn't even discern.

awful.

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[The Nature Boy]

3 simple words, TAKE NO PRISONERS!!!

I"m not a solider, I was 4-F, but those brave men and women representing the U.S. should not risk one more life under the guise of an Iraqi "surrender". God Bless, and get back soon, and take no chances. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

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[Se7en]

But is it particularly unexpected? We're invading the country. Did you expect them to just roll over and surrender? It's not called a war for nothing.

As far as violating the Geneva Convention, well, I mean, we're going in without UN support, right....?

Geneva has nothing to do with our waging a war without U.N. approval.

Apples.

Oranges.

Go read the Geneva Convention, see what it says about treating POWs, then when you're done, come back to the big people's table.

No matter how bloodthirsty our news networks may be, they haven't sunk yet to the level of barbarism that Al-Jazeera has. You won't see smiling U.S. troops on MSNBC holding up the bodies of Iraqi fatalities to proudly display the fatal head wounds.

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I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[The Blowhard]

Main Entry: Geneva convention
Function: noun
Date: 1880
: one of a series of agreements concerning the treatment of prisoners of war and of the sick, wounded, and dead in battle first made at Geneva, Switzerland in 1864 and subsequently accepted in later revisions by most nations

[TooCute]

No matter how bloodthirsty our news networks may be, they haven't sunk yet to the level of barbarism that Al-Jazeera has. You won't see smiling U.S. troops on MSNBC holding up the bodies of Iraqi fatalities to proudly display the fatal head wounds.

No, you won't. I never suggested they had, or would. I never suggested that our news networks and Al-Jazeera were on the same level. All I said was that you should have EXPECTED this. Am I wrong?

Go read the Geneva Convention, see what it says about treating POWs, then when you're done, come back to the big people's table.

Hm, yes, trying very hard to keep this forum civil, I see. Anyway, just trying to say it's a little hippocritical to complain about what Iraq is doing to POWs because of the Geneva convention, when we are there - in many peoples eyes - in violation of the UN in the first place.

If you're going to be outraged, be outraged. I am. But don't be outraged BECAUSE they violated the Geneva convention. Be outraged because what they're doing is wrong, period. Not because it's wrong because the Geneva convention says so - I mean, they're a sovreign nation, since when are they beholden to the world, right?

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[Bergalad]

Anyway, just trying to say it's a little hippocritical to complain about what Iraq is doing to POWs because of the Geneva convention, when we are there - in many peoples eyes - in violation of the UN in the first place.
No, it's not. Whether the US and other coalition members are going against the will of a broken UN is not a justification for violating the Geneva Convention. How does that make sense? So, by your reasoning, since Iraq broke UN Resolutions, US soldiers should be able to torture Iraqi soldiers and shoot them in the head? There isn't any linkage between the two, so let's not try and justify Iraqi war crimes, alright?

[TooCute]

There isn't any linkage between the two, so let's not try and justify Iraqi war crimes, alright?

No, let's not. Did someone try to do that?

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[stormshadow]

Torturing and killing POW's is probably the last thing you want to do in a war, besides from the fact that it's morally reprehensible. It gives American and coalition troops even more insentive to fight tennaciously until death, because they know that capture means torture and death.

On the other hand, America wisely treats enemy POW's well, this gives Iraqi troops even more insentive to surrender, knowing that they'll get better treatment.

[EffMeBoobs]

All I said was that you should have EXPECTED this.

No not really. Those are some things people dont really think about nor want to think about. Just like the family in Georgia who saw their son being held as a POW, he said being a POW and how it would affect him just never came up in any lengthy conversations they had. I mean yes I do expect casualties of war. It would be impossible to go and not have one casualty. But seeing video images of the way they are being treated ON PURPOSE, is just not something I was expecting or ready to see.

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[TooCute]

Expecting to see and ready to see are entirely different things.

Saddam tortures his OWN people. You didn't expect him to torture ours?

I really hope that nobody was READY to see this.

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[The Jays]

Anyway, just trying to say it's a little hippocritical to complain about what Iraq is doing to POWs because of the Geneva convention, when we are there - in many peoples eyes - in violation of the UN in the first place.


The UN and Geneva Convention are two different things. The Geneva Convention is signed by nations, regardless if they are involved with the UN.

It dates back before the UN. Both World Wars were undertaken, with the rules stated by the Geneva Convention in place.

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[EffMeBoobs]

Of course one would expect Saddam to torture our POWs if he tortures his own people. That's common sense. But thinking about and visualizing POWs, the videos and horrific images is something I just didn't THINK about until it happened, so in that sense I wasn't EXPECTING it. When I think of war, POWs isn't the first thing that comes to mind. So what I'm really trying to say is I was caught off guard and wasn't prepared to see all that horror.

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[Legolas]

Guys this is War. In war time things get real nasty, especially when you're the invading country.

I remember when the Iraqi's were saying they had US soldiers and no one believed them. The Pentagon and the US broadcasters were saying that they'd probably dress up some Iraqi citizen and say "Look, we got an American".

Well turns out they did have them and they showed them. Big deal.

Ron: Your saying that monkeys built a huge tower.
Fez: To reach the moon, to eat it.
Ron: You see why people think christians are stupid.

[SoLost22]

just wondering if anyone had the link to the website that lists all of the autrocities that occur in iraq

"God looks after drunks, fools, and the United States."

[erole]

http://www.hrw.org/reports/world/iraq-pubs.php
Glad to help.

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[FiveB247]

There are obvious reasons saying Saddam should be out of power and the US is pursuing war for the right reasons.

Saddam is an evil, tyrant dictator ...that is obvious. But as Americans, Human rights dialogues is not one of them. The US funds more nations with Human rights abuses than any nation pursuing democratic goals and values. The US themselves have Human rights abuses. The US didn't have a problem supporting the likes of Suharto, Pinochet amongst other dictators with similar records as Saddam. We even supported Saddam himself for a while and helped him with weapons production and secrets. If you want to say that Saddam is evil and should be out of power, so be it...it's obvious. But don't start rummaging through human rights abuses and all of a sudden hold them dear or true when we don't pursue and promote many of them ourselves. It's extremely hypocritical.

[Bergalad]

Five, this is once again another typical post from you, another "America is the most evil nation in the world" tirade. You say Saddam is bad, but then launch right into how America is the one who finds, nurtures, and supports "tyrants" all over the world. By stating the US has human rights abuses in the same post as Iraq's abuses, you are almost equating them as jointly culpable. Yes you are, so don't bother with the excuses. The US has made some bad choices in the past, mostly in our attempt to thwart the percieved spread of Communism. Yes, we backed the wrong people at times. Let's live in the now though, alright? Iraq is performing these massive abuses now, the US is not. It's shameful that you constantly bash the US in every single post; there isn't any justification for doing that.

[TooCute]

Five, this is once again another typical post from you, another "America is the most evil nation in the world" tirade...Iraq is performing these massive abuses now, the US is not.

Although we all know that I don't exactly always agree with Five, I think in this case you're not understanding what his point was (correct me if I'm wrong, Five). I think his point is that there are human rights abuses taking place all over the world, not just in Iraq, so there is a flaw in the logic if you are using Iraq's abuse of human rights as a justification for this war.

By stating the US has human rights abuses in the same post as Iraq's abuses, you are almost equating them as jointly culpable

How is stating that human rights abuses take place in the US - whether they do or not - ithe same as saying that the US is to blame for the human rights abuses that Iraq is perpetrating?


edit: fixed formatting
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This message was edited by TooCute on 3-25-03 @ 3:15 PM

[FiveB247]

Although we all know that I don't exactly always agree with Five, I think in this case you're not understanding what his point was (correct me if I'm wrong, Five). I think his point is that there are human rights abuses taking place all over the world, not just in Iraq, so there is a flaw in the logic if you are using Iraq's abuse of human rights as a justification for this war.

That is the major point I was trying to make. But I did also mention the fact that we have been gracious to other nations that carry out similar policies as well as don't fully uphold all human rights laws and codes either. I'm not comparing Iraqi violations with US violations as Bergalad mentioned...obviously you can not compare them. But all of a sudden to mention human rights as a reason for why we are fighting....it's absurd. If that is your case or point...we should be invading China next....but I highly doubt that will occur.

[Bergalad]

No Too Cute, I know what his point was, and it is the same in each post. I feel that this post was putting the US and Iraq on an equally guilty footing. By saying "sure, Iraq has problems, but the US not only has problems too, but also put the guy causing the problems in Iraq into power", well that's almost saying the US is more guilty than Iraq of violations. I know Five isn't really a Saddam sympathizer...I think...but I don't like the grouping of the US with Iraq on that level. It's not the right thing to do.

[FiveB247]

You can choose to ASSUME what you think my intention is..but you would incorrect. And if you don't want to hear what goes on in the world, whether it be the US, Iraq or any other nations... either cover your eyes or don't read what I have to say.

Ps...you mentioned that the US is conducting disarmament in another thread
Bush said this today...."We will prevail. The Iraqi regime will be disarmed. The Iraqi regime will be ended. The Iraqi people will be free.""

Doesn't sound like just disarmament to me Bergalad.

[Bergalad]

you mentioned that the US is conducting disarmament in another thread

Right, so let's leave this discussion to that thread.
And if you don't want to hear what goes on in the world, whether it be the US, Iraq or any other nations... either cover your eyes or don't read what I have to say.
Let's not be so pompous. You are not the font of all knowledge concerning world affairs. This thread is about Iraqi violations of the Geneva Convention. I am certainly not saying Iraq's violations are a justification for war, but they are yet another reason to support our actions there. A government that allows these horrible acts to occur should meet with the universal condemnation by the rest of the world. Still, this isn't the reason we are fighting, but only another nail in Saddam's coffin.

[TooCute]

No Too Cute, I know what his point was, and it is the same in each post. I feel that this post was putting the US and Iraq on an equally guilty footing. By saying "sure, Iraq has problems, but the US not only has problems too, but also put the guy causing the problems in Iraq into power", well that's almost saying the US is more guilty than Iraq of violations. I know Five isn't really a Saddam sympathizer...I think...but I don't like the grouping of the US with Iraq on that level. It's not the right thing to do.

Mind boggling. I'm speechless.

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[Thebazile78]

Here's that link, to the text of Article 13 of the Geneva Convention(s) since Rooster didn't post it himself:

http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/1595a804df7efd6bc125641400640d89/6fef854a3517b75ac125641e004a9e68?OpenDocument

I hope it works. If not, it's linked to today's politics column in Slate magazine. Yes, it's a liberal, corporate-owned e-zine, but it's got some really really great links to other sources.

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[high fly]

SHOCKER!! Iraq refuses to live up to one of it's international commitments.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[FiveB247]

Let's not be so pompous. You are not the font of all knowledge concerning world affairs. This thread is about Iraqi violations of the Geneva Convention. I am certainly not saying Iraq's violations are a justification for war, but they are yet another reason to support our actions there. A government that allows these horrible acts to occur should meet with the universal condemnation by the rest of the world. Still, this isn't the reason we are fighting, but only another nail in Saddam's coffin.


I never claimed to be the know it all of world affairs. You simply want to add more reasons to some how justify the war. Is the US now taking a stand on Human rights? Obviously NOT. So adding it to a list of reasons why we should be at war is not legitimate.

A government that allows these horrible acts to occur should meet with the universal condemnation by the rest of the world.

Tell that to the US... 'Most favorite Nation' status for China. It's very hypocritical to endure and support some law breakers and attack others.

[A.J.]

The Fedayeen Saddam, founded by Uday Hussein, may be guilty of multiple violations of the rules of war:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030326-1831570.htm

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 3-26-03 @ 11:31 AM

[FiveB247]

I'm truly shocked that Iraq, the noblest of civilizations under the great and righteous leadership of Saddam would act in such a manner. Very suprising ......ugh!