Bush's chances for re-election

[furie]

I know this is a bit early, but I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts on this were. Let's face it, half the country is still pissed over the 2000 election. And this war is not all that popular.

Do you think Bush has time to do some damage control before 2004, or will current events push a Democrat into the White House?


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[HBox]

I'd like to hope someone would beat Bush, but have you seen the Democratic candidates? They're like the Cincinnati Bengals of politics.



This message was edited by HBox on 3-26-03 @ 11:48 AM

[Wolf]

His chances are about the same as in 2000, since this country is divided almost perfectly in half. Let's vote Anarchy!

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[Knowledged_one]

Well Bush's approval rating right now is at somewhere between 62-66% in most polls and with about 70% of people polled are in favor of the war (note: i did not make these numbers up, they are not mine they are from an ABC/Washington Post poll)

And I personally believe that Bush will get elected because about 4 months before Primaries, the gov't will announce that we have caught Osama Bin Laden and this will pretty much get bush back in the white house for a second term....but this is just my little conspiracy theory (and im for bush)

and you are right there doesnt look to be that much competition for bush because i dont see any democrats that can carry the midwestern states like bush will

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War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is worth more then his personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better then himself - John Stuart Mill

[Teenweek]

Isn't Reverend Al running?

[FiveB247]

It all depends on how fast and the effects of the war. (whether economically or casualties). Bush would probably get re-elected unless the situation in Iraq becomes very bad. And if he does lose the election, we'd probably be stuck with a lame duck president due to the fact that the Democrats don't have a serious candidate to run.

Ps...no one is as bad as the Bengals...haha

[A.J.]

And if he does lose the election, we'd probably be stuck with a lame duck president due to the fact that the Democrats don't have a serious candidate to run.

A lame duck President, by definition, is a President who 1) isn't running for re-election or 2) has just lost re-election. What does a serious Democratic candidate have to do with that?

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[Knowledged_one]

I think Lieberman and the guy from N.C. are decent democratic canidates, and the term lame duck president does not apply per the definition of lame duck president, i would think after bush is re-elected and the day after he is re sworn in he dies then the V.P. would be in essence a lame duck (4 years but not voted for)

P.S. you think its going to be Bush/Giuliani in 2004 that is a rumor i have heard?

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War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is worth more then his personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better then himself - John Stuart Mill

[A.J.]

P.S. you think its going to be Bush/Giuliani in 2004 that is a rumor i have heard?

One of the rumors I heard is that Pataki makes Giuliani LTGOV of NY, Pataki resigns for a Federal job or Senate run, Giuliani becomes Governor.

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[FiveB247]

A lame duck President, by definition, is a President who 1) isn't running for re-election or 2) has just lost re-election. What does a serious Democratic candidate have to do with that?

I said if a Democratic candidate was elected President..he would be a lame duck. As to mean he would only be there for 1 term. Cause chances are he'd be voted in as an alternative to Bush...not an answer to the problems.

[furie]

One of the rumors I heard is that Pataki makes Giuliani LTGOV of NY, Pataki resigns for a Federal job or Senate run, Giuliani becomes Governor.


That'll never happen.

And I doubt you'll see Giuliani run for senate or any other federal office. I wouldn't be surprised ifRudy runs for the office of mayor of NYC again.

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[A.J.]

I said if a Democratic candidate was elected President..he would be a lame duck. As to mean he would only be there for 1 term. Cause chances are he'd be voted in as an alternative to Bush...not an answer to the problems.

Oh. It was confusing the way you wrote it.

So you think that whichever Democratic candidate gets the nomination in 2004 and wins the election, he or she (Carol Moseley Braun is running) will only be a one-termer? How come? If these "problems" are caused by Republicans, why would you elect a Republican again instead of re-electing the Democrat?

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[King Imp]

Put it this way, if we don't the WMD or enough of them to satify the rest of the world (because you know according to other countries they need to find tons of it to be appeased), Bush is done.

If and I pray when we do find it, Bush has a good shot of being re-elected.

[CaptClown]

If the Dow gets back over 10K, Bin Laden is caught and Unemployment drops below 5% Bush will get re-elected.

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[JerryTaker]

I think bush will declare a time of crisis and ask that senate grant him complete power, and all the young republicans will cheer and cheer that their hero Bush has full control and run off to become stormtroopers....

oh, but that's just fantasy, that couldn't <I>really</I>happen, right?


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[A.J.]

I think bush will declare a time of crisis and ask that senate grant him complete power, and all the young republicans will cheer and cheer that their hero Bush has full control and run off to become stormtroopers....


Like when FDR tried to pack the Supreme Court with liberal justices during the Great Depression in order to push through his New Deal agenda?

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[Knowledged_one]

and mojo wonders why people make fun of the liberals, yeah bush will ask for the total power thing thats so likely to happen so after the young republicans cheer will the moronic liberals heads explode

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War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is worth more then his personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better then himself - John Stuart Mill

[JerryTaker]

and mojo wonders why people make fun of the liberals, yeah bush will ask for the total power thing thats so likely to happen so after the young republicans cheer will the moronic liberals heads explode


You must have missed that rally this morning... I was expecting to hear "Twilight Zone" before Bush walked out...

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[furie]

if Bush or anyone was to seize power, and become a despotic ruler, he's not going to look to the senate. he'd just do it.

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[FiveB247]

So you think that whichever Democratic candidate gets the nomination in 2004 and wins the election, he or she (Carol Moseley Braun is running) will only be a one-termer? How come? If these "problems" are caused by Republicans, why would you elect a Republican again instead of re-electing the Democrat?


By the time 8yrs rolls around...deficit and the economy will be on peoples minds. If the economy isn't working right...people vote with that thought. People still have the hopes now of the economy turning back up and the war to end. When the war ends, the economy will come around...but it doesn't show to the average american immediately, it takes time to reach the pockets of them.

If Bush doesn't win re-election, a democrat will attempt to change what Bush has done, economically speaking. Taxes, social spending...the Budget. But with a weaker Democratic candidate and a strong Republican Congress, he will receive much resistance. The outcome would be half ass'ed economic change. The American public would be the ones to suffer through the stagnant economy.

Btw, I never claimed that the problems we have are just from Republicans.

[JerryTaker]

if Bush or anyone was to seize power, and become a despotic ruler, he's not going to look to the senate. he'd just do it.


I just wanted to keep with the "Star Wars" theme...

...credability schmedability, people only listen to what they want to hear anyway...



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[A.J.]

Btw, I never claimed that the problems we have are just from Republicans.


My inference, my mistake.

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[TheMojoPin]

and mojo wonders why people make fun of the liberals, yeah bush will ask for the total power thing thats so likely to happen so after the young republicans cheer will the moronic liberals heads explode

*Sigh*

I give up.

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[Death Metal Moe]

Unless he bangs an intern I'm voting for him. Period.

Even though I live in the LIberal Utopia that is New Jersey.

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[LiquidCourage]

The only serious Democratic candidate is John Kerry.
Unless the Democrats realize what they're doing wrong, they're done again.

[42nd-delay]

Overall, Bush's record is not very impressive.

The economy is still in the dumps after over two years, and shows little sign of recovering, despite the passage of his recovery plan last year. The budget surplus created duringthe Nineties has turned into enormous deficit, one that will only get bigger if Bush's current tax proposal passes. Even if it does, the unknown costs of the war and rebuilding promise to baloon the deficit even futher.

His domestic record has been unimpressive, though 9/11 clearly has distracted his efforts from these areas. The only notable domestic proposal I can think of thathas been followed up on is his faith-based initative idea, which has had trouble getting through Congress and is a bit dubious in any case (it skirts closely with and perhaps does violate the seperation of church and state). He's made a lot of promises and pledges, but often taken no action on them, or has done the opposite (link).

The various corporate scandals of the last two years could (and really should) damage his chances as well, since the administration has had close ties to come of these companies. VP Cheney's meeting with energy officials a couple of summers ago (which he vehemently defended the secrecy of) look very suspect.

Foreign policy has been mostly disaterous. Of course, it depends what happens in Afghanistan and Iraq, but it is unlikely that any President has so damaged our international relations and world standing. He managed to take an international climate that gave the US it's full support and turn it totally around, to the point where many nations, and most of our allies, were strongly against us.

Of course,the important things are the economy and the war. If both look good in a year or so, he'll be in good shape, asuming no scandals break out.

As far as a Democratic challenger goes - hey, Gore got more votes than Bush, and people didn't like him so much! Keep an eye on Howard Dean though.

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[LiquidCourage]

I don't think that I'll vote for Bush, but not because I dislike him so much. I just think really killed international relations. I think we need to get back on track with the rest of the world.

I'll vote for John Kerry if he runs.
He was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam and there's rumors of his unit committing some sort of massacre or something.
What a maniac.

[FiveB247]

I just think really killed international relations.

He was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam and there's rumors of his unit committing some sort of massacre or something.

Those two sentences shouldn't be in the same statement.

[high fly]

It was Bob Kerry, a congressional medal of honor recipient from Nebraska that came out a year or so ago talking about the incident you refer to.There are conflicting accounts as to what happened.
I seem to recall that one guy in the unit said they had killed a bunch of civilians in cold blood, but others in the unit disagreed. Kerry [or is it "Kerrey?] wrote about it in a book he wrote that came out about a year ago.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[LiquidCourage]

Haha.

But seriously. It's like he committed another My Lai massacre and he's considered a legitimate candidate for the President of the United States.

[FUNKMAN]

the biggest factor i think will be the economy, including the stock market...
then his lack of attention on Domestic issues or being unable to get things done on the Domestic front...

probably the main reasons his Dad wasn't re-elected...

this has been Funkman of RFN News reporting...back to you Control Center

:)

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This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 3-27-03 @ 3:00 PM

[high fly]

Dumbya's very vulnerable, good grief he's lied like crazy .
He may win, however. I don't see a really strong Democratic challenger yet.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Knowledged_one]

you mean domestic issues like HOMELAND SECURITY, yeah his track record is really poor.
Not to mention he has to clean up the economy because Clinton's years where scruples were unnecessary becasue Clinton was so dishonest caused the collapse of the economy, if Clinton had done anything the Enron, and other scandals may not have happened

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War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is worth more then his personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better then himself - John Stuart Mill

[LiquidCourage]

It ALL depends on how the war goes.
The economy could be ten times worse, but if Saddam Hussein is crushed and the people of Iraq are cheering for American troops, then he'll have a 95% approval rating going into the election.

[furie]

good grief he's lied like crazy .


you're getting Busg confused with Clinton.

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[Knowledged_one]

amen furie amen

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War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is worth more then his personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better then himself - John Stuart Mill

[curtoid]

Well, since he didn't really win the last election and still managed to become president,
I don't see why we're not treated to a second term. Especially since the Democrats
can't decide who they are - are they really Republicans, or are they just sort of kind of
like Republicans.

Like the elections this last November, if given that kind of choice the people will simply
go with the real Republicans. The Democrats have learned nothing.

Hell - a second Bush term might be a blast, especially if he is brought up on War
Crimes charges!

[KOP]

[TheMojoPin]

Actually, the Democrats not having a clear candidate just makes the situation even more like it was 11 years ago. Remember, Clinton came out of NOWHERE...nobody thought he or the other Democrats had a shot for the longest time...

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-27-03 @ 4:07 PM

[Knowledged_one]

and you figure he didnt win the election how.
and the war crimes charges how
and mojo you are right about clinton...i remember SNL doing a skit called who will lose to bush in 92

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War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is worth more then his personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better then himself - John Stuart Mill

[FUNKMAN]

Actually, the Democrats not having a clear candidate just makes the situation even more like it was 11 years ago. Remember, Clinton came out of NOWHERE


that's right, bring it on baby!

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[Tall_James]

Bush's chances for re-election? Pretty good in my opinion. Especially when Nader announces again and draws off 10% of the hardcore liberal base who cannot find it in their heart to vote for a middle-of-the-road Democratic candidate who is more Republican than most Republicans.



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[HBox]

when Nader announces again and draws off 10% of the hardcore liberal base who cannot find it in their heart to vote for a middle-of-the-road Democratic candidate who is more Republican than most Republicans.


I think those Nader voters have and still are learning their lesson. I think they'd take any reasonably qualified Democratic candidate over Bush. But then again, these people ARE FUCKING NUTS!!!!

The most ironic thing about the 2000 election is that Gore would have routed Bush if not for Nader.

[TheMojoPin]

I think those Nader voters have and still are learning their lesson. I think they'd take any reasonably qualified Democratic candidate over Bush. But then again, these people ARE FUCKING NUTS!!!!

The most ironic thing about the 2000 election is that Gore would have routed Bush if not for Nader.

*Ahem!*

Or maybe some of us really don't feel like compromising our politcal and voting integrity by voting for the "less worse" candidate. I can honestly say I would not rather have Gore in office right now. I have no doubt he'd essentially be handling things the same way, and I'd have practically the same questions, doubts and frustration I have now. The Democrats can call me when they start putting up some real Democrats again. Gore can go to Hell and I'm glad he lost in 2000.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-27-03 @ 10:41 PM

[shamus mcfitzy]

A lame duck President, by definition, is a President who 1) isn't running for re-election or 2) has just lost re-election. What does a serious Democratic candidate have to do with that?


i'm pretty sure a lame duck president is one who is opposed by Congress and therefore neither party's ideas get heard and nothing gets done. whatever

And I agree with Mojo tons. Clinton was a complete unknown but got people to like him. Who knows Kerry could just play up a "crazy" vet image, which goes over really well with American voters. I think he'd be the only guy to beat Bush though. And he'd also be the only Dem i'd vote for (and i will vote, i'll be 19). I don't think a vote for Nader was wasted because ultimately you vote so your voice is heard. about 3% of the US people wanted Nader to be president, so they voted for him.

The only way I see Bush winning no matter what really is if he catches Osama AND liberals believe him. Because I know there will be some liberals who will doubt it ever happened (i'll probably doubt it at first too if it ever happens). Ultimately I hope there's someone that can challenge Bush because that's just politics at it's best. No one wants to see Clinton-Dole again.

[HBox]

Or maybe some of us really don't feel like compromising our politcal and voting integrity by voting for the "less worse" candidate.


I really don't think we'd be in Iraq right now if Gore was in office. But that's just my opinion. And I'm insulted by the insinuation that I compromised my voting integrity. I do believe there are differences between Democrats and Republicans. They may seem idneitcal when somebody like Nader comes from way out of left field, but when it came down to it, I just identified more with Gore than Nader.

[HBox]

I REALLY wish McCain would run, as an independent.

[TheMojoPin]

Well, that's different. You made your choice, I made mine. Doesn't mean we're crazy for not going with your guy! Vive la difference.

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[HBox]

Yay! We're all happy and fun again! Who wants Ginger Ale and Marshmaloows!

[curtoid]

"The most ironic thing about the 2000 election is that Gore would have routed Bush if
not for Nader."

AMEN!

Those of us who remember the 1992 elections remember that it was Perot who tipped
the scale, stealing votes from Bush, and helping to get Clinton elected.

The exact same thing happened in 2000, but with Nader - every Republican I talked
with was so grateful to Ralphy boy. Hell even the Simpsons pointed it out, when it
showed Nader helping the Republicans conspire to undermind the Democratic party!

It is ironic that Michael Moore is going around screaming about today's President Bush
because of the war, since it was his self-serving support of Nader that HELPED elect
Bush! Was it worth selling out ALL of your princinples in order to make a point?? Some
saw what was on the line with a Bush Presidency (huge tax breaks to the rich; tipping
the judicial scales towards a more conservative agenda; the enviromental issues; etc)
and decided to go with maybe the most over-qualified person who ever ran for
president.

I don't think the Greens learned their lesson - if the Democrats don't swing to a leftist
agenda, I think they will do their damndest to get Bush re-elected.

I bet they are the same baby-peacenicks that I saw marching that didn't realize that
the card-board peace signs they made was actually the logos for Mercades!

[KOP]
















This message was edited by KOP on 3-27-03 @ 11:16 PM

[shamus mcfitzy]

I REALLY wish McCain would run, as an independent.


He's really the only Republican i'd vote for. I had thought that it was stupid for the Republicans not to compromise and put McCain out there so he'd snare some more liberal votes. But Bush wound up winning anyway, so i guess they got lucky. I think McCain would've beat Gore at least 55-45 though. (Or with Nader maybe 54-43-3)



This message was edited by shamus mcfitzy on 3-27-03 @ 11:23 PM

[TheMojoPin]

I don't think the Greens learned their lesson - if the Democrats don't swing to a leftist
agenda, I think they will do their damndest to get Bush re-elected.

You brought up how Perot basically helped swing the vote away from Bush back in '92, yet ignore the importance of what that demonstrated...combine that with Nader in '00 and it shows that despite not even coming close to being elected, third party candidates and voters can and will change the politcal course of this country. If the Democrats continue to shift more and more to the center or become more and more unfocused, their supporters are going to continue to drift away towards independent candidates, and it's unfair to think that coming back and having to settle for a half-assed candidate is "learning one's lesson." Has the American political environment really gotten THAT pathetic? Well, if that's the case, I'm not going to apathetically play along. Enough people are tired of having to pick between "crap" and "half-a-crap".

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-27-03 @ 11:29 PM

[Tall_James]

Or maybe some of us really don't feel like compromising our politcal and voting integrity by voting for the "less worse" candidate
Mojo - don't get me wrong, I respect you for your integrity and applaud you for it. It is something missing from most of this political theatre. I respected Nader for his views and heartfelt passion, and while I did not agree with everything he said, he at least had the balls to get out there and not pander to the middle like Gore. Even as a conservative, I respected that.

Hell, even I voted for Perot the first, less-crazy time he ran. But remember

"You foolish earthlings forget," said Kodos, "This is a two party system. You have to vote for one of us!"

"But what if we vote for a third party candidate?" says a faceless voice in the crowd.

"Oh, sure, you can do that," the Kang replies, "and throw your vote away!" At this point both aliens laugh maniacally.

In the end, Kang wins and the human race is enslaved and forced to build a giant death ray.

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[A.J.]

i'm pretty sure a lame duck president is one who is opposed by Congress and therefore neither party's ideas get heard and nothing gets done.

Right, for the reasons I mentioned. Because at that point, they're waiting for his replacement.

I REALLY wish McCain would run, as an independent.

He's really the only Republican i'd vote for.


Why do people view McCain as this "maverick Republican"? I like the guy too but if you look at his voting record, he pretty much totes the party line save for campaign finance reform, anti-pork-barrel legislation and tobacco.

Or are THOSE the reasons why?

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[shamus mcfitzy]

HAVE PEROT RUN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Didn't he get more electoral votes than Dole in '96? I think that makes him qualified enough.....

I think it'll take one good independent candidate to get the Democrats to actually represent all of the leftist voters. Buchanan and the other guy are not gonna do it for the Independent party and Nader's considered crazy so we'll probably have to wait a little....

Why do people view McCain as this "maverick Republican"? I like the guy too but if you look at his voting record, he pretty much totes the party line save for campaign finance reform, anti-pork-barrel legislation and tobacco.

Or are THOSE the reasons why?


i guess this is something i hate about voters, but i just like him better. Doesn't seem like the average politician to me, so i like him. Plus he's a vet, people love them their vets.

This message was edited by shamus mcfitzy on 3-27-03 @ 11:33 PM

[HBox]

HAVE PEROT RUN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Didn't he get more electoral votes than Dole in '96? I think that makes him qualified enough.....


Perot didn't get any electoral votes.

[Death Metal Moe]

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[shamus mcfitzy]

Perot didn't get any electoral votes.


no texas? I had thought he won texas? damn me. Well whatever, er.........he got big ears to hear the American people with......GO PEROT!!!

[TheMojoPin]

Dammit James...I can't counter "Simpsons" logic. It's scientifically proven to be impossible. CURSE YOU, KODOS!!!

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2% << FREE YERDADDY! >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[FiveB247]

I voted for Nader. And anyone who honestly blames Nader for Gore's loss is retarded. Gore couldn't even carry his own home state! Stop blaming others for his own defeat. It's like me blaming Gore for Nader losing?! Just cause the numbers would add up...doesn't mean it would actually have been that way. According to your line of reasoning and backwards thinking, I blame Gore and Bush for Nader losing. Without people voting for Gore and Bush...Nader could have had 100% of the votes....right?...ugh...let's not get silly here fellas.

Also...we shouldn't project what things could have been like if Gore or any other person would be in Bush's place. It's asinine to assume what the unknown would hold. There's no justification to say things would be better, worse or indifferent.

[FiveB247]

It was so good...I just had to post it twice..hehe

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 3-28-03 @ 1:51 AM

[furie]

Maybe now is the time for Jesse "The Body" to take the Reform party the white house.

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Free Yerdaddy

[A.J.]

http://www.iv4k.com/iv4k.jpg

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A Skidmark production.

http://www.internerd.com/frink.retired/frinkv.2/stuff/littlepc.gif

[Shecky]

If Al Sharpton runs and gets the Democratic nod..HA HA....It's a shoe in for Bush

PRAY FOR THE BRAVE ONES!!!!

Later On,
SHECKY

[high fly]

Fishing can be such good sport. Sometimes I use 2 rods. First you bait your hook, cast, and wait for a bite:
Dumbya's very vulnerable, good grief, he's lied like crazy

Patience, patience, patience....You're getting Busg [sic] confused with Clinton

CHOMP!
amen furie amen

CHOMP!
Okay, let's reel-em in!
While the list is rather long, here's a few examples of Dumbya deceiving us:
Campaign Bush clubbed Clinton for being too friendly with the Chinese, but what happens when he gets in office? Bush grovelled and apologized when a Chinese fighter plane ran into one of our recon planes and tough guy George then makes-em pay for it with sleepovers at the Bush ranch.
Campaign Bush promised across the board marginal income tax rate cuts, President Bush left them out of his proposal.
Campaign Bush promised on "day one" that he'd move the US embassy to Jeruselem. Still waiting on that one.
Campaign Bush promised to increase funding for alternative fuel sources, funds were cut in President Bush's budget last year.
Campaign Bush promised to help Russia to decommission it's nukes, again, President Bush cut the funding.
One lie he wasn't able to follow through on was his campaign promise to "beef up the military". On Sept. 10, 2001, plans were being finalized to cut the army from 10 divisions to 8.
Campaign Bush promised to cut immigration, but President Bush met with Robert Goulet look-a-like Fox of Mexico and agreed to increase it.
Campaign Bush promised to be a "uniter" and break the partisan deadlock on the hill. Still waiting on that one too.
Campaign Bush promised to work closely with our allies but President Bush's bumbling and stumbling from the moment he got in there give the lie to that one
Whether one agrees or disagrees with these issues, the man has lied repeatedly to us..

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

Oh me, oh my, a politician lied. I'd say I was suprised, but then I'd be no better than them.

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2% << FREE YERDADDY! >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

Having a C-Student In Chief who is not credible in charge during wartime is quite disturbing. You just can't believe a word the man says.
Whether the Democrats run a candidate who can take advantage of Dumbya's failings and put forth a good program remains to be seen.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[curtoid]

high fly -

One of my favorite Bush lies is the one about his "service" in the military. Again and
again he perpetuated this myth that he was ready to go in a moments notice, but the
truth is in 1972-73 he was actual AWOL.

www.awolbush.com

It won't matter to those whose hatred for all things Clinton make them blind to the
truth about the beloved Commander In Thief.

[KOP]

[high fly]

Whoa Nelly, KOP! I knew there was something fishy about Dumbya's "service". I remember him during the campaign talking about how all he wanted to do was fly jet planes.
Hoo boy! AWOL all that time. I wonder what the statute of limitations is on that, or desertion, for that matter.
Maybe even the idea of keeping the North Vietnamese Air Force out of the skies over the Carribbean seemed too dangerous to the poor dear.
I'm sure our Republican friends on the board have logical explanations for this and the other questions I've raised, and, uh, they'll come flooding in at any moment.
Any moment.
Any second now.
The wait shouldn't be very long, should it?
Any moment now.
Hmmmm. I think I'll pull up a chair.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

Here, I'll clense the air for any oncoming assault...

"But...CLINTON!!! Clinton...he was CLINTON...how can you when he was SO CLINTON?!?! Clinton likes Clinton because CLINTON is all about the Clinton with a tasty side of Clinton!!! Clinton in the morning, Clinton in the evening, Cinton at suppertime!!!"

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2% << FREE YERDADDY! >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Death Metal Moe]

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/world/0008/clinton.gallery/pics/clinton.hat.ap.jpg

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<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<b>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!</b>
666%

[Death Metal Moe]

METAL CLINTON!!!!!!!

http://users.pandora.be/t-productions/gal/hum/bill_sucks_clinton.jpg

HORNS UP YOU FUCKERS!!!!!!!

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<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<b>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!</b>
666%

[high fly]

The subject is Bush's chances for reelection and I've posted a sampling of his lies to the American people. Seeing as how conservatives got all pissed off with lying a few years ago....
Maybe lying is only bad when it's a liberal doing it.
Maybe their "principles" regarding honesty went the way of their "principles" regarding a balanced budget.
Still waiting for a rebuttal on the subject of Bush's lies to us.
Still waiting.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

still waiting................



" and they ask me why I drink"

[HBox]

What, funny pictures of Clinton weren't enough for you?

[ADF]

Playing devil's advocate, I'd say that Bush's lies were your everyday campaign promise lies, whiles Clintion's were direct, in-your-face, "I did not have sex with that woman" lies. Every politician on in the history of the universe has reversed his or her position on numerous campaign promises. The only thing that differentiates Clinton from most other politicians is that he got involved in a "sex scandal." Still, the sexual escapades of our president don't interest me in the slightest, but I can't say the same for everyone else.

I'd say Bush has a pretty good chance of getting reelected, but I said the same thing about his dad.

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[tricia]

The only thing that differentiates Clinton from most other politicians is that he got involved in a "sex scandal."
yeah, i'm not really seeing a difference there...

[ADF]

yeah, i'm not really seeing a difference there...


I said "most" politicians. Seeing as there are 435 Representatives and 100 Senators, there aren't that many sex scandals. Sure, 98% of them probably like to get their freaky dink on, but we don't find out about it.

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This message was edited by ADF on 4-2-03 @ 11:24 AM

[JerryTaker]

Bush's lies were your everyday campaign promise lies, whiles Clintion's were direct, in-your-face, "I did not have sex with that woman" lies.


The thing to ask yourself is, "what kind of lies are <I>really</I> more damaging to the country?"

<IMG SRC="http://afs30.njit.edu/~gsm2321/faramir.gif">

<marquee width=300 scrollamount="5">Wet and raving, The needle keeps calling me back.. To bloody my hands forever. Carved my cure with the blade That left me in scars, Now every time I'm weak, Words scream from my arm</marquee>

[furie]

The thing to ask yourself is, "what kind of lies are really more damaging to the country?"


Well, since every politician makes the campaign lies and we're still here as a country, I'd say that points towards the "in your face" lies.

One of my favorite Bush lies is the one about his "service" in the military.

Hey, he was defending Texas from charlie!

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/us_flag_animated.gif">

This message was edited by furie on 4-2-03 @ 10:17 AM

[FiveB247]

Hey, he was defending Texas from charlie!

Now that's funny.

Ps...The wind is picking up on RF.net...you're flag is flapping in the wind.

[high fly]

Hey, he was defending Texas from charlie

FURIE--Good one, superb!!
Let's see, since March 28th, no one has been able to touch any point I made. Frankly, I expected more from the Republicans out there.
Once they handle the lies Bush has told that I listed, I'm ready with some more on, oh, the environment, education...but let's not jump the gun.
The as yet untouched point of it all is that you just can't believe a word the man says.
After all the huffing and puffing over Clinton, one got the impression that honesty is a virtue that Republicans valued.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[FiveB247]

Let's see, since March 28th, no one has been able to touch any point I made. Frankly, I expected more from the Republicans out there.
Once they handle the lies Bush has told that I listed, I'm ready with some more on, oh, the environment, education...but let's not jump the gun.
The as yet untouched point of it all is that you just can't believe a word the man says.
After all the huffing and puffing over Clinton, one got the impression that honesty is a virtue that Republicans valued

What point are you even trying to make? That Bush hasn't followed through with some of the items he campaigned for? Here's a news flash, captain obvious....No Politicians usually do exactly or most of what they campaign for. Dems, Reps, ..whatever. They both promise shit like education, health care, environment, etc...and it never gets achieved. This isn't anything new that you somehow discovered.

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 4-2-03 @ 1:01 PM

[A.J.]

Let's see, since March 28th, no one has been able to touch any point I made. Frankly, I expected more from the Republicans out there.
Once they handle the lies Bush has told that I listed, I'm ready with some more on, oh, the environment, education...but let's not jump the gun.
The as yet untouched point of it all is that you just can't believe a word the man says.
After all the huffing and puffing over Clinton, one got the impression that honesty is a virtue that Republicans valued.


OK, I'll take a stab at this:

Campaign Bush clubbed Clinton for being too friendly with the Chinese, but what happens when he gets in office? Bush grovelled and apologized when a Chinese fighter plane ran into one of our recon planes and tough guy George then makes-em pay for it with sleepovers at the Bush ranch.

Grovelled? Hardly -- if you recall, he was attacked for dragging it out longer than it needed to be by refusing to apologize. And giving in and sending a formal apology (which was no more than a short note) can hardly be compared to the Clinton Administration's export of technolgies which give Chinese missiles greater accuracy -- that threatens the Asia-Pacific Rim and our national security.

I don't get the sleepovers at the ranch comment.

Campaign Bush promised across the board marginal income tax rate cuts, President Bush left them out of his proposal.

Is all this tax cut talk I'm hearing about something different? Probably not, since all of them are always for the "wealthy".

One lie he wasn't able to follow through on was his campaign promise to "beef up the military". On Sept. 10, 2001, plans were being finalized to cut the army from 10 divisions to 8.

The Army was also suffering the biggest losses due to the lack of retention. The military goes through periods of streamlining and transformation in order to meet the latest threats. In the wake of 9/11, an entire new Unified Command was established. So if the army was going to reduce divisions, it was going to increase its role elsewhere.

Campaign Bush promised to be a "uniter" and break the partisan deadlock on the hill. Still waiting on that one too.

Exhibit A: the biggest stumbling block

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/ALLPOLITICS/11/06/elec02.democrats.react/daschle.jpg

Campaign Bush promised to work closely with our allies but President Bush's bumbling and stumbling from the moment he got in there give the lie to that one


Bush never approached our NATO allies and the UN before the war in Iraq? We DON'T have an international coalition right now?

Campaign Bush promised on "day one" that he'd move the US embassy to Jeruselem. Still waiting on that one.

I don't remember the "day one" quote but it may well be a work in progress. If you recall, Congress passed legislation on 1995 to move the embassy to Jerusalem by May, 1999 or to certify to Congress that "suspension is necessary to protect the national security interests of the United States." One could argue that this is still true.

Campaign Bush promised to increase funding for alternative fuel sources, funds were cut in President Bush's budget last year.

Campaign Bush promised to help Russia to decommission it's nukes, again, President Bush cut the funding.

Campaign Bush promised to cut immigration, but President Bush met with Robert Goulet look-a-like Fox of Mexico and agreed to increase it.

To be honest, I can't speak to these points. But from what I heard in February's State of the Union speech, I heard a whole lot of spending and not a lot of cutting.

And remember -- he's only halfway through his term so technically it's not a lie yet. :)

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A Skidmark production.

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[TheMojoPin]

I don't get the sleepovers at the ranch comment.

Me neither. Was Bush touching the Chinese diplomat's kids or something?

<img src=http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2002/images/jacko2.jpg>

*EDIT* Ignore the retarded caption under the pic.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << FREE YERDADDY! >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-2-03 @ 3:06 PM

[high fly]

The sleepovers line refers to the fact that after apologizing and being humiliated by the Chinese, one would think the man would follow through with his campaign position and get tough with them by at least threatening to take away most favored nation trading status or something.
Instead, the Chinese leaders have been out to the ranch for shindigs, Bush-style. It's been in all the papers, sorry you missed it.
As to the point that all politicians lie, copying someone elses bad behavior is a bad idea, and is no excuse. And that whiny argument: "but Clinton did it too-oo" is just sad.
The delicious irony of it all is the position it puts Bush supporters in, at least the ones that got so pissed at Clinton for lying to the American people.
If they are consistent and club Bush the same way they did Clinton, then they look like hypocrites for supporting a guy that did what they bitched so long and loud about.
On the other hand, if they fail to get as pissed at Bush as they did at Clinton, then they look like, yep, you guessed it, hypocrites.
Let's be consistent, folks.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[El Mudo]

*EDIT* Ignore the retarded caption under the pic


Id say they should give whoever wrote that caption free tickets to the next Great White club date...

....Garry Owen....

[high fly]

Allright, back to the fray.
Let's keep in mind that the thread is "Bushes Chances for reelection", and the above replies are to my point that Bush is vulnerable because he has lied frequently to us.
Some don't think it's any big deal, because "all politicians lie". Well I think it is a big deal. It is part of the responsibility of the citizens to hold politicians accountable to what they have promised. Bushdaddy learned that the hard way wih his "No new taxes" pledge.
Though some respondents drew the obvious comparison to Clinton's lie about a consentual affair to a panel investigating sexual harrassment, I, while seeing them as different, condemn them both.
In Clinton's case, at the moment Lewinsky was testifying, Clinton was trying to put together an airborne assault on Bin Laden in Afghanistan. Republicans found out about it and started howling about an "October Surprise", the idea being that Clinton would try to distract attention from the Lewinsky affair. This Republican protest had the effect of hamstringing the president. Of course one could say quite rightly that Clinton brought it upon himself. It is also true that the Republican protest kept Clinton from acting more forcefully to defend America's interests.
Those who casually tossed off Clinton's lying as no big deal--I disagree with you, but at least you are being consistent.
Those who howled long and loud about it, I ask that you do the same with Bush.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

Allright, back to the fray.
Let's keep in mind that the thread is "Bushes Chances for reelection", and the above replies are to my point that Bush is vulnerable because he has lied frequently to us.
Some don't think it's any big deal, because "all politicians lie". Well I think it is a big deal. It is part of the responsibility of the citizens to hold politicians accountable to what they have promised. Bushdaddy learned that the hard way wih his "No new taxes" pledge.
Though some respondents drew the obvious comparison to Clinton's lie about a consentual affair to a panel investigating sexual harrassment, I, while seeing them as different, condemn them both.
In Clinton's case, at the moment Lewinsky was testifying, Clinton was trying to put together an airborne assault on Bin Laden in Afghanistan. Republicans found out about it and started howling about an "October Surprise", the idea being that Clinton would try to distract attention from the Lewinsky affair. This Republican protest had the effect of hamstringing the president. Of course one could say quite rightly that Clinton brought it upon himself. It is also true that the Republican protest kept Clinton from acting more forcefully to defend America's interests.
Those who casually tossed off Clinton's lying as no big deal--I disagree with you, but at least you are being consistent.
Those who howled long and loud about it, I ask that you do the same with Bush.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[HBox]

Exhibit A: the biggest stumbling block


If you say you are going to be a uniter, it is your job to unite, not everybody else's to follow.

[high fly]

He hasn't kept the promise, nor has he made much of an attempt to do so

" and they ask me why I drink"

[ADF]

I doubt Bush's chances for reelection are based on his failure to comply with his campaign promises. If the economy is bullish, the war is over and successful, there aren't any major scandals, and no charismatic opposing candidate appears, I don't see why Bush wouldn't get reelected.

People forget campaign promises about a week after they're made. Sure, Bush lies, but relative to the lies of other politicians, they're no big whoop.

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Can't we all just get a lawn?</center>

[high fly]

When taken in their totality, they can be quite effective ammunition to be used against him. Who wants a president whose word is no good?
It's one thing to get stymied by congress in trying to fulfill one of your promises, it's quite another to just lie like hell.
I had a girlfriend like that once...........

" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

And oh yes, it's been, what, 5 days now and Bush supporters have barely touched any of my points. How about just admitting the man cannot be believed?
Remember, I still haven't bored in on "The Environmental President" or "The Education President", or his promise to "get us out of the nation building business", or to get us out of Kosovo.......


" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

And oh yes, it's been, what, 5 days now and Bush supporters have barely touched any of my points.


that's because i skipped over it. too long. make several shorter posts. I surf in 10 min intervals.

Furie
<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/us_flag_animated.gif">

<marquee>Free Yerdaddy </marquee>

[ADF]

When taken in their totality, they can be quite effective ammunition to be used against him. Who wants a president whose word is no good?



Unless the opposition runs a very effective campaign, I doubt Bush's failure to comply with his promises will affect his chances for campaign promises. You're giving the public too much credit. They care about what happened last week, not four years in the past. People are fickle.

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[high fly]

ADF- I agree to some extent. For all we know, the Dems will run another Al Snore.
By the way, has anyone done the math on the deficit? I came up with something like 14,000 or more bucks per person in the US.
Remember, this is money the government is borrowing, and we're gonna have to pay it back with interest.
Of course the rich can at least take comfort in the fact that the Republicans have reduced their share.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

Well, the Iowa caucus isn't even finished yet, and the polls say Bush will beat any of the four fore runners. Do you think there's anything the Dems can do to turn it around, or is it all sealed up?


<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/zencow.gif">

[Yerdaddy]

It's too early to tell when the dems haven't even started campaigning against Bush yet. And taking shots at him isn't the same thing. I won't even really be paying attention until after the conventions.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
TEAR THE BITCH APART!

[high fly]

I say "caucus" in mixed company as much as possible.

" and they ask me why I drink"
http://64.177.177.182/katylina/highflysig.jpg
Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina for the sig!

[samnyc]

I hear that Bush is building a warchest of $170MM for the campaign. Dean has managed to raise $40, but will be spending a lot through the primary season.

[Reephdweller]

http://cronus.com/images/bush-wink.jpg

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[Reephdweller]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040119/capt.sge.cgx99.190104193456.photo00.default-380x254.jpg

Hey John Kerry...why the long face?

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[Yerdaddy]

I hear that Bush is building a warchest of $170MM for the campaign. Dean has managed to raise $40, but will be spending a lot through the primary season.

Bush's tax rebate rebate.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
TEAR THE BITCH APART!

[NewYorkDragons80]

I said this on December 13th, my birthday and the date of Saddam's capture, that the capture of Saddam guarantees cock. The only thing that will lock up Bush's reelection are: 1) The capture/killing of bin Laden. If bin Laden dies of kidney failure, Bush is dicked. 2) The lockdown, air-tight link between Saddam and bin Laden 3) The discovery of bio weapons. I never suspected that Iraq had nuclear weapons, but I am brimming with certitude when it comes to an active (Up to April 2003) bio-weapons program. The Coalition would have to turn this up before November. I'm not saying that if these things don't happen Bush can't win, but it will be a close-call.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[TheMojoPin]

Dean has managed to raise $40, but will be spending a lot through the primary season.

Two tanks of gas and he's done.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."