Project for a New American Century

[silera]

I heard about this on a radio show recently, and was really intrigued. Basically, it's a document that was co-researched/written/signed by many members of Bush's current cabinet and white house staff.

Paul Wolfowitz is now deputy defense secretary. John Bolton is undersecretary of state. Stephen Cambone is head of the Pentagon's Office of Program, Analysis and Evaluation. Eliot Cohen and Devon Cross are members of the Defense Policy Board, which advises Rumsfeld. I. Lewis Libby is chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. Dov Zakheim is comptroller for the Defense Department.

It's a defense strategy to build up America's Defense and Military in order to equip it to become the world's police officer in the coming century. I'm trying to read it still, it's a full 90 pages long.

This is a quote from the introduction:

At present the United States faces no
global rival. America's grand strategy should aim to preserve and extend this advantageous
position as far into the future as possible. In broad terms, we saw the project as building upon the defense strategy outlined by the Cheney Defense Department in the waning days of the Bush Administration. The Defense Policy Guidance (DPG) drafted in the early months of 1992 provided a blueprint for maintaining U.S. preeminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests. Leaked before it had been formally approved, the document was criticized as an effort by "cold
warriors" to keep defense spending high and cuts in forces small despite the collapse of the Soviet Union; not surprisingly, it was subsequently buried by the new administration.

As it stands, it seems that the premises assumed and addressed in this document are shaping our current foreign policy decisions. I don't know how I feel about it yet.

EDIT: I dunno what happened. Here's the link.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>



This message was edited by silera on 3-27-03 @ 11:47 AM

[Se7en]

If its goal is to ensure America remains the most powerful nation on the planet, I'm for it.

If it's goal is to make America THE police force of the world.....we already are. And we'll continue to be.

<img border="0" src="http://Se7enRFNet.homestead.com/files/se7en.jpg" width="300" height="100">

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[King Imp]

If other countries are for it, then I'm fine with it.
If not, then let them take care of their own fucking problems for once.

[silera]

Could we please read at least some of it?



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>

[King Imp]

Could we please read at least some of it?
Ummm, how can we? There is no link.

***EDIT*** Thank you. :)


This message was edited by King Imp on 3-27-03 @ 11:47 AM

[TooCute]

If other countries are for it, then I'm fine with it.
If not, then let them take care of their own fucking problems for once

Somehow I'm getting the feeling that Iraq isn't exactly for it...


They want to create a Holy American Empire. Read it.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!

[silera]

There's the link.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>

[Captain Stubing]

I'm flipping through it.......I like what I see so far but I'm concerned about some word choices. "constabulary"? I'd almost forgotten that the word 'constable' existed.

Fezaesthesia - Prognosis poor...

[A.J.]

They want to create a Holy American Empire.

Well, a "Pax Americana" anyway.

Basically, they're advocating maintaining strong and consistent funding of the military so that it does not fall into the depths it did during the 70s.



<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

99-44/100%

[King Imp]

Jesus Christ, does anyone have the cliff notes for this? Either that or I'll wait for the movie to come out. ;)

[Se7en]

They want to create a Holy American Empire. Read it.

Really? Now I'm REALLY for it.

BTW, I don't have time to read 90 fucking pages. Condense it for me in 3 words or less.

<img border="0" src="http://Se7enRFNet.homestead.com/files/se7en.jpg" width="300" height="100">

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[FiveB247]

After reading some of this....Here's what I think.

There's a big difference between being the World policeman (helping create stability and peace)..compared to instilling beliefs, concepts and practices in order to keep the US strong and others weak and at bay.

The notions in this document all point to one thing. This is what you call "empire".

Ps...I plan to read the entire thing.

[TooCute]

Really? Now I'm REALLY for it.

BTW, I don't have time to read 90 fucking pages. Condense it for me in 3 words or less.


Really. They even call is a "Pax Americana". They believe that the way that the "Pax Americana" can be defended is by a good offense that involves maintaining major American military installations all over the world (Persian Gulf, Southeast Asia, etc.) and quite honestly being the world's policeman ("constabulatory")- aggressively. Coercively. They also believe that the United States needs to control space and cyberspace.

Basically the moral of the story is "Americanize the world," in three words or less :)

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!

[King Imp]

There's a big difference between being the World policeman (helping create stability and peace)..compared to instilling beliefs, concepts and practices in order to keep the US strong and others weak and at bay.
Exactly. That's why I said if the other countries agree with this and want us to do this (be the World's policemen) then I'm all for it. If not they can stop crying over their civil wars and take care of their own problems for once.


This message was edited by King Imp on 3-27-03 @ 12:12 PM

[A.J.]

that involves maintaining major American military installations all over the world

We call that "forward basing"

being the world's policeman

"meeting threats head on"

They also believe that the United States needs to control space and cyberspace.


"Information/Net Centric Warfare"

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

99-44/100%

[TooCute]

that involves maintaining major American military installations all over the world



We call that "forward basing"



Quote:
being the world's policeman



"meeting threats head on"



Quote:
They also believe that the United States needs to control space and cyberspace.



"Information/Net Centric Warfare"



Call it whatever the hell you want to call it. When the world is Americanized and there's no more cheap labor, don't come crying to me when a pair of jeans from the Gap costs you $500.


Okay, that was a dumb thing to say. But I'm still uncomfortable with the notion of an American empire.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!

[A.J.]

I was just giving you the military terms that I've gotten so familar with lo these many years.

When the world is Americanized and there's no more cheap labor, don't come crying to me when a pair of jeans from the Gap costs you $500.

I won't. I have every confidence in our military's ability to preserve, protect and defend sweatshops and slave labor the world over!



<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

99-44/100%

[silera]

So far, what I've read makes me very uneasy.

Do we want to rule the world? Could the presumption that American principles need to be enforced and maintained everywhere in order to protect us be identical to the very fanatics that commit acts of terrorism against us?


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>

[FiveB247]

You want to see something scary....

I looked at the website for this organization. They make many explanations to their belief of US order in the world. But if you look at some of the names who support or are mentioned in this belief (association to the cause). Dick Chaney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, etc...

I'm unsure if the organization is using these people as reference to name a few who regard their beliefs (association to their cause)...or if these people actually pursue these ideas themselves. It doesn't specifically say for sure...but it's very unsettling at the least.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

[Captain Stubing]

Obviously I've only skimmed this (who the hell has time to do more?) but my take on this is that IF we want to have all of the international entanglements we have taken on THEN we have to bolster our DoD budget/forces to meet the increased demands.
Makes sense to me although I question the presumption that we SHOULD be involved around the world. The document sort of accepts that we are, we should be, and that we may as well have the resources to maximally pull off the policy.

Fezaesthesia - Prognosis poor...

[silera]

All of those people are active members of the organization, not references.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>

[Recyclerz]

Wow. I never thought I would see a thread on source material like this since Yerdaddy got banished. Silera, I tip my hat to you.

Although I don't disagree with Too Cute's three word summary, my condensation would be biggest swinging dick.

These guys want to remain the world's only superpower (or at least until China grows into the title). An interesting tidbit about this theory is that the US aready spends as much on its military as the rest of the world combined NOW and these guys want us to pull farther ahead.

What worries me is that when you combine this philosophy with the rest of Bush's apparent agenda you get a Federal government that is interested in national
defense (and defense becomes a euphemism here) and nothing else. Although I disagree with the twitchy and ideological protestors who still may be lying on 5th Ave that these are the first steps to an American Fascist state, I still don't like it. For my interpretation of what these guys want for the future do a Google search for social Darwinism .

For those interested, Foreign Affairs has a good web site

http://www.foreignaffairs.org

The articles are slightly shorter than 90 pages but just as interesting ;-)



[b]Free Yerdaddy![b]

[Se7en]

Oh, I love the idea of an American Empire. I'd be so into a whole New World Order. And I look fabulous in jack-boots, too, I've been waiting for those things to come back in style.

Seriously......honestly? I don't have a thing wrong with Pax Americana.

Except for the cyberspace thing. I want to download my porn without government intrusion.

<img border="0" src="http://Se7enRFNet.homestead.com/files/se7en.jpg" width="300" height="100">

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[silera]

Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a
new Pearl Harbor.

Indeed, the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the
immediate justification, the need for a
substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.

This war was decided on long ago. Long before 9-11, and before the UN resolution didn't go through. Pax Americana, is the belief that our way of life is better than those that disagree with it. This is what troubles me.

Pax Americana seems like a nicer way to say American Empire. Regions that do not celebrate our principles and lifestyle, are considered security threats and therefore need to be shown that we can kick their asses and are prepared to do so.

Again, this Pax Americana, reeks to me of the fanatism that we abhor in those that do not share American views.

<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>

This message was edited by silera on 3-27-03 @ 2:35 PM

[A.J.]

Regions that do not celebrate our principles and lifestyle, are considered security threats

Case in point: Islamo-Fascists like al Qaeda and the Taliban.

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

99-44/100%

[FiveB247]

Silera..where does it say that those people endorse this organization? I didn't see anything that specifically said that.

If people like Chaney, Rumsfeld, etc...all are for this American Empire/ global police idea... what do you believe in regards to nations all over the world (the so called "anti-american mongers") who all say the US is pursuing empire and is imperialistic? Doesn't something like this website and document, if they are supported by governement officials, doesn't it make them kinda right?

If the site says those names mentioned are honestly pursuing those beliefs and endorse them, I seriously plan to write a shit load of letters to confirm/ deny their allowance towards this organization and its beliefs.

[silera]

Case in point: Islamo-Fascists like al Qaeda and the Taliban.

These aren't countries. These are religious sects. In effect, we're giving ourselves the authority to decide whois good and evil and the authority to proceed to contain whomever we deem evil with all the military force possible.

This document specifically states:

For one, they demand American
political leadership rather than that of the
United Nations, as the failure of the UN
mission in the Balkans and the relative
success of NATO operations there attests.
Nor can the United States assume a UN-like
stance of neutrality; the preponderance of
American power is so great and its global
interests so wide that it cannot pretend to be
indifferent to the political outcome in the
Balkans, the Persian Gulf or even when it
deploys forces in Africa.

We're right, we don't need approval, and anyone that doesn't agree with our way of life has to be contained or eliminated.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>

[silera]

Most of the people listed on the Statement of Principles on the homepage, are also listed as Staff, etc. in the "about us" section. The same people listed on the statement of principles, are pretty much listed under every letter that is sent out on behalf of this organization. I'm assuming they are thereby signing as contributors to the letters sent out on behalf of the organization. Plus, the document that I linked initially, they stated that the people didn't simply sign off at the end, but each attended at least one seminar and debated the final product or recommendations that they were placing in the text.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=white>

[dcpete]

I believe completely that natural rights should be fought for. The right to live, have freedom of expression, religion, and the pursuit of happiness(to an extent that isn't harmful to society as a whole). We can see if these are being violated and we SHOULD go in to give it to the people if they are denied it.

that being said,

My main problem with the pax americana is that there is no universal morality. Right/wrong and bad/good are all in the eyes of the beholder. America's way of life is great for americans, but it would go against many of the asian religions in it's aggressiveness, it's overindulgences, and focus on superficial things over thoughts.

In the past we have been incredably hypocritical when we try to "liberate" people. We give them free elections but we force these countries to become a representative democracy or something close. If they wanted to have a enlightened despot or god forbid communism we wouldn't recognize them. There is no perfect government nor is there a form of government that would work everywhere in the world. If the people do not want the form of government that we thrust at them, and we force it on them we are no different than any dictator living or dead. I love america and would give anything to protect the natural rights that it garentees. But we cannot impose our white anglosaxon protestant morality on places where it doesn't fit, and sadly it seems that this is becoming the american way. However if i'm wrong, and we only liberate people to give them these rights and not interfere with their morality i'll be behind any action that we take, even if the rest of the world doesn't support it.

<img src ="http://members.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/``dcpete.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US">

the praise is pouring in for dcpete. Just look at these qoutes:

IM me at gpigking or suffer a fate worse than death.

[A.J.]

These aren't countries. These are religious sects. In effect, we're giving ourselves the authority to decide whois good and evil and the authority to proceed to contain whomever we deem evil with all the military force possible.

al Qaeda committed an act of war (excuse me, SEVERAL acts of war) against this country when it attacked our bases, embassies, ships, and buildings. That gives us the authority to go after them wherever they are.

The Taliban ran Afghanistan and gave aid and comfort to al Qaeda. That gives us the authority to go after them.

But like I said in another thread, I don't think we'll be conducting operations like we currently are in Iraq. Our biggest threat is potential terrorism so that's why we will most likely go after them in small, low-intensity operations.

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

99-44/100%

[curtoid]

THANK YOU (!) for putting this up here.

This was actually featured on Nightline a few weeks ago, and has been a hot topic for
months in the foreign press, who see this as proof of a GOP Cabal that has taken over
our government; 10 of the 40 people who signed this are now in the Bush White
House.

What this proves is that:

* we were going into Iraq with or without 9-11; the connections they have tried to
paint between al-Qeda and Hussain are bogus. In Clinton's leter rejecting the "white
paper" he actually cited Osama as a bigger threat to the United States than Hussain -
and that was in 1997.

* when Clinton wouldn't come on board, they found the perfect candidate to endorse
who would be in line with their way of thinking - who better than the son of a man
who Saddam targetted?

* a private organization has taken their personal beliefs and created foreign policy.

This is not the end of this.

The Project for the New American Century are THE people behind the scenes pulling
the strings, and what's so unsettling is that this is not a conspiracy theory; they are so
brazen and bold, they brag about the work they've done in crafting this war.

THIS is what OUR men and women are dying for???!

[KOP]










This message was edited by KOP on 3-27-03 @ 3:44 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Remember how well it worked out for the Soviets when they tried to stock up on "satellite nations"? Yeah, that wasn't pretty...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << FREE YERDADDY! >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

As soon as they start up colonies on Mars I'm getting away from all these crazy motherfuckers ASAP.

[Recyclerz]

As soon as they start up colonies on Mars I'm getting away from all these crazy motherfuckers ASAP.

Obviously you haven't seen the Ah-nold movie Total Recall . They're gonna be in charge up there as well.



[b]Free Yerdaddy![b]

[HBox]

Obviously you haven't seen the Ah-nold movie Total Recall . They're gonna be in charge up there as well.


Yeah, but the three breasted women make it worth it.

See you at the party Richter!