New Non-Smoking Law

[squrl]

I don't smoke but I have been everything from a barback to a bartender. If you hate smoke, don't come in a bar.

[Death Metal Moe]

I disagree with this law. MANY people need to smoke with their drinking.

It's a form of Prohibition on Tobbaco in my opinion and I don't like it.

NOT allowing certian bars to just decide for themselves is fucking Un-American. Their should be some sort of certification to become either a smoking or non-smoking bar so that people have a choice. Not one sweeping piece of legislation.

Super gay and Un-American. That is a freedom taken away.

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[grlNIN]

fuck them, fuck them and their "law" up their silly asses



i will light up with this law in effect i do not give a fuck

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[TheMojoPin]

I alternate between being a smoker and non-smoker constantly, but even when I am in a multi-month "quit" stage, I wouldn't even dream of trying to get the people around me in a place like a bar or a park or a baseball stadium to not smoke...insanity.

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[Death Metal Moe]

I just smoke cigars and these faggy cigar tobbaco filled cigarettes I get at the Mobile.

But yea, I know that a bar is a smoky place and to be ready for that. I'd gladly pic a Non-smoking place to meet friends if enough people existed that wanted the place to keep it alive. Imposing this law on people is stupid.

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[ADF]

Smelling like crap and having my mouth taste like an ashtray after a night in a bar is almost a badge of honor. It's part of the experience. If people wised up and actually decided not to give themselves cancer, I'd suggest they pipe in simulated secondhand smoke.

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[ChickenHawk]

::cough::

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[Fallon]

I hate smoke. But I tolerate it at bars because everybody is there to have a good time.

Get it out of resturaunts, I don't need that shit in my face while I eat.

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[tricia]

i will light up with this law in effect i do not give a fuck
yeah, you know what, that's just fucking great, you do that and watch your favourite bar get put out of business.

this is the biggest problem with the law, nobody's gonna take it seriously. however, there will be people whose job it is to go around to bars and look for people smoking. if they see anyone, said bar gets a fine. it starts out fairly low, like 250 or something, but each fine will increase exponentially and after i believe it was 5 fines, said bar loses liquor license.

i'm really looking forward to adding "smoking police" to my job description. as an added incentive the owners of the bar i work in have said that the employees will be responsible for paying the fines...

i need a cigarette

[FMJeff]

people are gonna fight this tooth and nail...

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[The Blowhard]

Start chewing tobacco. Let's all spit.

[FiveB247]

Good riddance to smoking in bars.

[Death Metal Moe]

WHAT FiveB? You'er FOR Limiting freedoms? Don't you CARE about how it must FEEL to have your rights taken away?

And I thought you were a REAL tree hugger. You're no better than a Conservative!

And you can come to one of our NRA meetings anytime. There's smoking.......GUNS!

WACKA WACKA!

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[TheGameHHH]

I don't smoke at all (just pot), and I feel this law is totally fucked up. It's person right to smoke if he/she pleases, making this law is retarded.

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[Ron Zoni]

people are gonna fight this tooth and nail...


Man I hope so. I hope someone takes this to the Supreme Court. When we are trying to bring Freedom to Iraq, they are taking away our Freedom at home. Government has no right to tell a business they can't let people smoke. By the way this law also applies to company cars or trucks. Even God gave Adam and Eve freedom of choice in the Garden of Eden. The government has usurped God's power

[angrymissy]

Almost every bartender in NYC I've talked to says this law isn't gonna be enforced by them.

There are still some bars that are allowed to have people smoke, the latest issue of Time Out NY has a list of them.

The thing is, I know this worked in LA, but in LA its warm out all year round, and its not as hard to send people outside to smoke.

Lets say its January, -10 degrees out... I'm not going to run in and out of a bar for my cigarette, I'd rather stay home, or go out somewhere where the ban is not in place.

Also, what are they going to do at the larger places? Send people in and out and card them everytime they come back in? What about places that charge a cover? It's gonna be a clusterfuck. I hate Bloomberg.

I will smoke regardless on the sly.

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[jocefus]

I disagree with this law. MANY people need to smoke with their drinking.

It's a form of Prohibition on Tobbaco in my opinion and I don't like it.

NOT allowing certian bars to just decide for themselves is fucking Un-American. Their should be some sort of certification to become either a smoking or non-smoking bar so that people have a choice. Not one sweeping piece of legislation.

Super gay and Un-American. That is a freedom taken away.


well said moe. i agree 100%... smoke em if ya got em

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[Donnielimes]

You can still smoke at the Subway Inn at 60th and lexington but it's not for the faint of heart . the drinx are CHEEP and it is a smoky dark bar with all that implies. I had been drinking in there since I was, well since around '81 if you bring friends and a good attitude it's a blast say hi to Luigi and Charlie for me. The cigar smoking bartender with white hair is named Rodney. The one that looks perpetually pissed off is George.

"Good Times/Noodle Salad, Thats my story"

[grlNIN]

I will smoke regardless on the sly.



damn straight

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[Miss Dolores Haze]

If I don't like smoke, why do I come to a bar? Because I'm an alcoholic just like the rest of you guys and I like to be with my friends. Although I do feel bad for smokers being limited for where they can and cannot not smoke, I myself are ecstatic at the fact that I will be able to drink and breath. No one will be blowing smoke in my face, no smelling it on my clothes, no accidental burn marks on my clothes and hey it'll be cheaper for smokers because you'll light up less often. Oh I forgot to mention that, in fact, I'm allergic to it which makes me feel like crap and gives me shortness of breath the next day. So yeah I'm pretty fucking excited and now I'm only ruining one organ. Thanks Mike "The Iguana" Bloomberg!

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[Sage]

If I don't like smoke, why do I come to a bar? Because I'm an alcoholic just like the rest of you guys and I like to be with my friends.
Oh I forgot to mention that, in fact, I'm allergic to it which makes me feel like crap and gives me shortness of breath the next day. So yeah I'm pretty fucking excited and now I'm only ruining one organ.

Agreed. Having had my lungs damaged from 9/11, and many other rescue workers having breathing problems, us afflicted start to have a slightly different view of this.

I now have to find restaurants that are non-smoking if I wish to go out. forget about pubs. After a few minutes around smoke, my chest starts tightening up. I expect to see more of this type of condition. and possible Disability Act lawsuites around this.

For the smoker's 'freedom to pollute' argument, it doesn't hold up. One just has to use this very simple quide:

Does my being in a room, or my actions, disturb anyone, or cause any physical damage to them or their possessions?

Do my actions cause others to stay away?

These questions need to be asked only on things that are reasonable. Obviously, someone who is allergic to seafood can't go to a Seafood Food Fest and complain that all of the food is seafood.

But, basic social activities like eating out, and gathering at pubs, do NOT have anything to do with smoking.

We have rules against:
-Loud music
-Loud obnoxious behavior in peaceful locations
-Spitting
-'relieving' one's self in public
-exposing one's privates (below waist)
-Other behavior and actions that affect others in a negative manner.

Smoking is no different. You have the right to such anything you like. But your 'right' is restricted to YOU, and does not give a right to 'pollute' your immediate environment causing harm or discomfort to others. In the case of smoking vs. obnoxiousness.... at least obnoxiousness does not cause possible medical conditions (except for the beating the ass will get) :)

How about a rally by non-smokers? How about all non-smokers go to clubs, perhaps where there is a live show going on? Where people are quiet. Or a restarant that allows smoking?

And, when someone lights up, start yelling and/or singing.... loud. Or, maybe kick it up a notch and use one of those 'Horn in a can' things to blow a loud horn. Or maybe just have a little bicycle bell and constantly ring it. Or maybe a tape of a baby crying.

The bicycle bell is probably the best since it is just an annoyance and would not be too loud.

Yes, fight for the right to ring your bell. Bell Ringers Unite! You have a right to ring your bell. Don't let them take away your right! Afterall, no one's health is affected by bells. Can't say the same about smoke. But, I guess, if someone doesn't like bells, they can stay at home and smoke.

:)



This message was edited by Sage on 3-28-03 @ 1:26 PM

[silera]

To counter your argument, that smokers keep you away from certain places.

Unless you those places are public property, neither you nor the city has a right to dictate what a private owner permits in his establishment. I'm sure many business owners agree with you, and there are bars and restaurants where smoking is not allowed.

The line is crossed when that option is taken away from the person that will truly feel the effects of it.

As far as smoke being a health risk for others, it isn't. It may be unpleasant, you may not like it, but there is no evidence proving that second hand smoke causes cancer. If you have an allergic reaction to it, then you can go to establishments that do not allow smoking.

Point being, we all choose with who, where, and how we will spend our time. Your dislike for my smoking may one day become your dislike to my drinking. This opens the door. The cause and effect of inhaling second hand smoke and getting cancer has no where near the same evidence supporting it as the effects of drinking and driving and the death rate associated with it.

Will the next law prohibit the sale of liquor to anyone that doesn't prove he/she is not driving at the end of the night? Will we just prohibit drinking at all, because of the health risks associated with it?

My problem with this law, and others like it, is that social etiquette, and/or morality shouldn't be legislated. What you feel is acceptable for you, may not be for me. What you find disgusting, I may be perfectly fine with.



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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[Wolf]

Ditto to Silera's comment.

Banning smoking in bars and restaurants is going to hurt the business owner, who should have the choice since it is a personal liberty. After this law, the next one that comes up is smoking withing 25 feet of a building. Following that will be the ban on all smoking outdoors. California already has a law against both of these, with the beaches as their first step to complete outdoor smoking elimination.

The government is trying to control the way you live your life. This limitation on personal liberties is unconstitutional. How far are you willing to let them go?


"I love to smoke. I smoke seven THOUSAND packs a day, and I am NEVER fuckin' quitting... what's the rule now, you can only smoke in your apartment, under a blanket with all the lights out?" - Denis Leary


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[Arienette]

NOT allowing certian bars to just decide for themselves is fucking Un-Americani agree completely. i dont smoke (anymore), and i wouldn't necessarily mind being able to go into a smoke-free bar sometimes. but, i think it's absolutely wrong for the government to tell proprietors how to run their establishments. i think it would make the most sense to have each place decide what they want to do. having both smoking and non-smoking bars would give us the option.

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[A.J.]

I'm going to feel bad for the "non-smokers": those people who, after a few drinks, come up and ask if they can bum smokes from me. What will THEY do now?

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[East Side Dave]

Bloomberg makes Richard Simmons look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I hate him. They take away our Ron & Fez. They take away smoking in bars. Some of us are going to lose it. Some of us are going to do unpleasant things soon. Do you hear that, Mr. Blooomberg, Mr. Sykes?

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This message was edited by East Side Dave on 3-28-03 @ 7:25 PM

[Sage]

A lot of these arguments always seem to bring up the mythical slippery slope, where one limit will bring about all limits.

I'm not bringing up the cancer issue, since that is a separate debate. I'm talking about direct, measurable effects on the health of individuals with minor medical conditions. Sorry if the right to breath fresh air seems to step on your right to polute the air.

As for a 'private' business owner being able to do what he wants.... uh, they can't. As long as they are providing services for the public, they are not 'private'. Even private clubs have certain safety regulations that need to be abided by, like fire exits, extinguishers, etc.

Hmmmm, let's see. A nightclub burns down killing 100 people. That was a club, owned by a private business person. I guess that we should not limit his right to put on whatever type of entertainment he wants. It's his business, right? (yes, I know the club is not 'likely' to be at fault, but it makes a point).

Safety and Health of the public are concerns of society. That is what rules (and laws) are for. Any place that caters to the public, the public's safety and health are protected, whether they like it or not. You want a gathering place without any rules? You've got private homes.

As for hurting business, that's an interesting argument, brought up in each of the areas that these bans have been passed. I'm sure NYC was watching carefully on the business standpoint, because it can't afford to have business to leave, or revenue to drop.

In all of the areas that a smoking ban went into effect, especially restaurants, business increased or stay the same. This is not to say that business improves. That would be a weak conclusion. But it does indicate that business is not necessarily harmed.

===
Freedom is not "do whatever I want to do". Freedom is not absence of rules.
Freedom is not anarchy.
Freedom is always limited by the effects your actions have on your surroundings.
Freedom does not quarantee the right to be a 'nuisance' without consequence.
===

ok, I'm done. :) gotta catch my breath. anyone got a lucy?

[FMJeff]

Just as long as he doesn't ban it outdoors and in our homes and cars I guess I'll live with it.

Maybe I'll just wear the patch indoors.

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[silera]

You're confusing smoking a cigarette with polluting the environment.

I think car emissions, factory emissions and the myriad of other pollutants in the city are much more harmful than cigarettes.

Some people that smoke are rude, and some aren't. I hate people that drink and can't seem to keep themselves from knocking your drink over, or vomitting in the sink in the bathroom. However, I don't think that these people should induce the government to enact legislation to curb their behavior.

The premise of this law is that it will "protect non-smokers", a premise based on misconstrued research and pretty much the mentality that the government knows what's is best.

It is a slippery slope, to enact legislation based on the assumption that people are unable to come to conclusions about their establishments themselves.

You're points regarding safety and hazard legislation is well taken, but banning cigarette smoking in an establishment in no way compares to enforcement fire codes and building codes meant to ensure that a building is sound and the public is not walking into a death trap.



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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[The Blowhard]

First, they take our guns. Now they say we can't smoke. We have to use seatbelts. We need helmets when riding our motorcycles.
What's next, banning McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts because of overweight people?
It's coming people.

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[CaptClown]

Just as long as he doesn't ban it outdoors and in our homes and cars I guess I'll live with it.


It's been tried down here in Capitol Heights, Md and overthrown(repealed, whatever).

Director of the C.Y.A. Society.
Field Marshal of the K.I.S.S. Army

[A.J.]

anyone got a lucy?

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[Contra]

Sage, jeez life is tough buy a fucking helmet

i mean you are entitled to your opinion and all but damn man, let me play you this tiny violin

*rubs fingers together*

anyway, yeah sure you make the point that this has been passed in other places and business stayed the same. however when it comes the new york, none of that means jack shit.

take LA (the non-smoker's big platform). its enforced there, but the mindstate of there and NYC are totally different. in LA everyone lives a trend. they are all sheep, so of course the smoking ban succeeded there. in LA they live a fad, in NYC they live a lifestyle, and this is going to cripple the nighlife in NYC by either lost business, or fines for not enforcing the law.

lets also take into effect the "segragation" factor here. so now smokers cant smoke in bars, whats next? segregated water foutains cause we might have gum disease? smokers have to sit at the back of the bus cause we smell like cigarettes? i know these are extreame theories, but even the thought that it could be a reality is a scary thought.

the economy in the city is already horrible, and bloomburg wants to pull this shit. i said it before and i'll say it again, no mayor in history has tried as hard to never be elected again.


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This message was edited by Contra on 4-2-03 @ 3:38 PM

[FiveB247]

WHAT FiveB? You'er FOR Limiting freedoms? Don't you CARE about how it must FEEL to have your rights taken away?

And I thought you were a REAL tree hugger. You're no better than a Conservative!

I never claimed to be a tree hugger or a liberal. This law does limit people's freedom. But that doesn't mean I have to support smoking or cigarettes.

And quite frankly...I can't speak for others on the board or elsewhere. I've seen posts by various members regarding friends or family diagnosed with cancer and such. But as for me....I have had cancer. I was a bit disappointed to see the board sponsoring an event regarding the promotion of smoking in bars. I'm sure the bar crawl will be fun...but as for trying to rally the troops in order to promote smoking....you can count me out.

[ag]

If you hate smoke, don't come in a bar.
My point excalty!



NOT allowing certian bars to just decide for themselves is fucking Un-American. Their should be some sort of certification to become either a smoking or non-smoking bar so that people have a choice. Not one sweeping piece of legislation.
Just you wait and see Moe, there <b>WILL</b> Be Loopholes and before you know it you will be seeing smoking in bars again


Get it out of resturaunts, I don't need that shit in my face while I eat.
Im a smoker but i hate the smell of smoke while I eat it makes me sick

Start chewing tobacco. Let's all spit.
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This message was edited by ag1247 on 3-28-03 @ 10:30 PM

[FiveB247]

If you hate smoke, don't come in a bar.
My point excalty!

I go into a bar to drink. The same thing everyone else does. If you want to get technical...bars are for drinking. No one goes out to a bar just to smoke cigarettes. They go out to bars for drinks. Smoking is something people accompany with it.

I never said I was for this law (although I can't really say I mind it either). It is an invasion of choice. But that doesn't mean I have to support cigarette smoking.

[The Blowhard]

So far, Bloomberg has:

DOUBLED the amount of parking fines.
INCREASED property taxes by almost 20%.
Encouraged us to buy $500 mountain bikes in December for a potential transit strike.
Leaned on the NYPD, DOT and DOS to issue more summonses, targeting mostly middle and working class neighborhoods. Candy wrapper on your sidewalk? $50 fine!
And now this. People can't go out and enjoy a drink and a smoke without being treated like lepers?(I'm a non-smoker btw).
And please, the cancer argument is bogus. If cancer was an issue Bloomberg would ban bacon and hot dogs due to nitrate content.
This is all about generating income for the city, plain and simple. As if the NYPD doesn't have enough to worry about, and a Health Department that is understaffed and ineffectual.
Bloomberg wants to fine you. He wants your money.
There is no doubt that he will be a one term Mayor. I'm sorry I voted for him.

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[Aggie]

New Non-Smoking Law=NO GOOD

start chewing tobacco. let's all spit.


heckler this one's for you. this was probably the first country song i heard when i came down to texas to start college. i realized then what a school of rednecks i now belonged to.


Copenhagen
Robert Earl Keen

Now, I went out last Sunday with my little Mary-Ann
She said please stay still Monday, and grabbed me by my can
She laid a big one on me, suprised me with her tongue,
But her surprise was waitin' there, between my cheek and gum.

Chorus:
Copenhagen, what a wad of flavor.
Copenhagen, you can see it in my smile.
Copenhagen, do yourself a favor.
Chew Copenhagen, drive them pretty girls wild.

So I went to the movies with my little Peggy-Sue,
I had my dip there in my lip just like I always do.
She didn't know that I was spittin' in my Coca-Cola cup,
She took a great big swoller' and threw her popcorn up! Oh!

Chorus:

The moral of this story is so very sad but true.
If you stay 'till breakfast friend, they'll want to marry you.
So try my little method and I promise you no doubt
Dip some Copenhagen if you want to snuff 'em out.


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I knew JerseyRich was good for something - thanks!

[The Blowhard]

heckler this one's for you. this was probably the first country song i heard when i came down to texas to start college. i realized then what a school of rednecks i now belonged to.



Thanks Darlin. Now all I need is a pickup truck with a gunrack, a hound dog, some Waylon 8 tracks and some "chaw". Oh yeah, maybe a sister to bang too.
Aggie, you truly are a "Honkytonk Angel". Let's spit, ya' hear me woman?

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[Ron Zoni]

The way I see it, if you don't like a smoke environment, don't go there. This law was not passed to protect customers from smoke, but the people who work there. I don't want to work with garbage, so I'm not a garbage man. My choice. Or should I piss and moan until they pass a law that makes everyone sanitize their garbage before they put it at the curb. That way I could be a garbage man in a safe work environment. It's bullshit. The government has raped the tobacco companies already, for billions of dollars. If tobacco is so bad, make it illegal. Second hand smoke is nothing compared to the exhaust coming from your car. Maybe they will make all nonessential driving illegal. Especially if you're driving to the store to get a pack of cigarettes.


I'm not trying to pass a law that requires smoking in all bars. That would be stupid. All I'm saying is, let the market place decide. There would be bars and restaurants with smoking, and some without smoking. Ban it at federal, state and town facilities. That would be fine. they are public places supported by taxes. Private business should be allowed to make its own decision. It's not the governments place to legislate this.

Why do you go to bars if you don't like the way they smell, or the way you smell when you get home?

I don't believe all the shit about second hand smoke either. It may be annoying, and smell bad, but it's not going to kill you. Statistically the numbers show no significant difference

As I said, the law is for workers, not customers. This law includes all work places. You can not smoke in a company car or truck either, even if you are the only one who uses it. My van is in my company's name. I'm the only one who drives it. It will be illegal for me to smoke in my own van. This is bullshit.

[A.J.]

I'm going to feel bad for the "non-smokers": those people who, after a few drinks, come up and ask if they can bum smokes from me. What will THEY do now?


I knew it -- there ARE a lot of them:



http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/04/11/smoking.rates.ap/index.html

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