SMOKING BAN AKIN TO FACISM

[FMJeff]

I have devoted a great deal of thought to the smoking ban in New York. I am deeply concerned with this law. It all seems a little Machiavellian to me. Any conspiracy theorist will tell you the best way to implement your personal agendas are small, subtle moves in the right direction. I find this smoking ban to be one step closer to the envisioned by George Orwell in 1984.

This job infringes on my civil liberties, first and foremost, the right for a business owner to determine what should and should not be allowed to go on in his establishment. The hypocrisy of this law is clearly evident. Narcotics are not allowed inside bars and clubs because narcotics are considered illegal. Smoking is legal, but not allowed inside bars and clubs. Is this a question of health? Alcohol does siginificant damage to the system. Why is that still allowed in bars and clubs? You want to make the arguement about the collateral damage of smoking over alcohol? You show me how many people finish a cigarette, get into a car and crash into wall.

I find it all rather convenient that his bill was passed while everyone is focused on the war with Iraq. Who will protest something as comparitively insignificant as smoking when people are dying in the middle east? Nobody, which is exactely why this was the perfect time to drop the axe on the neck of smokers everywhere.

I don't like what direction this law is taking our people. I can't imagine what we will lose next. I'm sure it will be something we take for granted but not enough for us to care about losing. For every seemingly insignificant freedom we lose, a piece of our soul goes with it, and that scares the hell out of me.

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[LiquidCourage]

I can't stand this decision.
Although I don't smoke and it really annoys me, it's pretty ridiculious.
They don't even give the owners of bars and restaurants the choice to let people smoke there or not.

[FiveB247]

Shhhh....Don't talk here...They'll see you and know of your dissent. Big Brother is watching!

[silera]

I want to know when I voted for this law to go on the books. I don't remember Bloomberg EVER NOT ONCE mentioning it while campaigning.

This issue appeared out of nowhere and was passed into law within months.



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[TheMojoPin]

<img src=http://www.landenweb.com/images%5Cimgduitsland%5Chitler.jpg>

Didn't drink.

Didn't smoke.

Was a vegetarian.

Coincidence?

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[FiveB247]

I want to know when I voted for this law to go on the books. I don't remember Bloomberg EVER NOT ONCE mentioning it while campaigning.

Since when do politicians actually do what they say in their election campaign? Not often at all. They all bs the public and kiss ass with mention of issues, policy reforms and implementation of new policies; but more so then not do they ever come to action.

And most politicians nowadays don't go by what the people who elected them into office think, they merely 'represent' their interests, not their opinions. It's representative democracy....not true democracy.

[HordeKing1]

I take the opposite view.

People who smoke in public are forcing the foul stench (and carciogen) on the public.

That is violating MY rights. If you want to smoke, smoke at home. Or in a place where no one else is subjected to it.

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[silera]

People who smoke in public are forcing the foul stench (and carciogen) on the public.

That is violating MY rights. If you want to smoke, smoke at home. Or in a place where no one else is subjected to it.

The answer to this is to leave it up to the owner of the establishment to decide what he/she will allow in his establishment. You can then decide whether you want to patronize establishments that allow smoking for yourself.

Legislating etiquette is retarded.

I hate BO. It is a foul smell. Are we to legislate that everyone use deodorant and bathe everyday?



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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[HordeKing1]

I have no problem if people smoke in private. Then, as you say, we could choose whether or not to go there.

My problem is public smoking, b/c there is noo way to escape that.

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[HBox]

I got a solution. Let people smoke in public. But in return, if a smoker gets lung cancer, insurance carriers won't be required to pay for cancer treatments. That way, the rest of us won't have to pay so much for insurance. I'll take that trade off.

[A.J.]

I hate BO. It is a foul smell. Are we to legislate that everyone use deodorant and bathe everyday?


Didn't Giuliani try to do that with cab drivers?

got a solution. Let people smoke in public. But in return, if a smoker gets lung cancer, insurance carriers won't be required to pay for cancer treatments. That way, the rest of us won't have to pay so much for insurance. I'll take that trade off.

Cool. But then they'll have to reduce the taxes on cigarettes so we can use that money to help pay for the coverage.

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[tricia]

I find it all rather convenient that his bill was passed while everyone is focused on the war with Iraq.
it was actually passed months ago.

and hordeking, the problem with this law is that it is forcing all bar owners to disallow smoking. they've taken away the freedom of choice. how about passing a bill that gives tax incentives to owners who choose to make their establishment non smoking? then the public would have the right to choose whether they patronize places that are smoking or not. and another problem i have with it is that they are making the bars responsible, not the smoker. the consequences of lighting up are not a fine to the person who breaks the law, but a fine for the people who didn't stop them. now you tell me how easy it is to watch over 3 or 400 people and make sure they don't do something that's perfectly legal elsewhere...

it's that they are telling us what we can and cannot do to ourselves and our businesses rather than giving us a choice

[fatty]

My problem is public smoking, b/c there is noo way to escape that.


but there is, don't go in there. it's the same thing as radio or tv, if you don't like it you can change the channel or turn the dial. if you don't like bars that allow smoking, don't go into those bars.

i'm all about freedom of choice, and that's what the government wants to take away from us. people like jeff and other realize that this is a step in the wrong direction, just wait until you see what they want to do next.

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[fatty]

in honor of this double post you can all suck my big fat cock. i made the mistake but i'm still pissed off at all of you.

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This message was edited by fatty on 3-31-03 @ 6:12 PM

[silera]

how about passing a bill that gives tax incentives to owners who choose to make their establishment non smoking?

That's the smartest thing I've read in a while.

Tricia is a fucking genius.

Tricia for President!!!!!!!!11


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[Meatball]

why cant they invent a cigarette that doesnt produce smoke but gives the smoker the nicotine high, that the drug addicts crave?
and whey not instead of a cigarette make it a pill or liquid or something.

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[silera]

By the way, SECONDHAND SMOKE DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER.



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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[HordeKing1]

You cannot escape the stench or harmful effects of secondhand smoke in a public place. A guy smoking in an elevator exposes the whole car to those noxious fumes.

And I'm not even talking about secondhand smoke which has been definitively linked to all sorts of cancer, I'm talking about the stench.

If you want to do something that's offensive to a great many people do it in a private not public place.


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[HBox]

By the way, SECONDHAND SMOKE DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER.


But it is really fucking annoying, and actually does cause health problems for those among us who already have lung disease.



This message was edited by HBox on 3-31-03 @ 6:28 PM

[A.J.]

A guy smoking in an elevator exposes the whole car to those noxious fumes.


So does a guy who farts in an elevator.

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[silera]

But it is really fucking annoying, and actually does cause health problems for those among us who already have lung disease.

Again, annoyances shouldn't be dealt with on a legislative level. There are smokers that lack etiquette, just as there are non-smokers that lack etiquette.

I'm annoyed by drunk men that grab my ass in bars and pretend that they were just trying to get by me.

Should I lobby for law that requires drunk men to walk in bars with their hands above their heads and visible to the bar owner or employees at all times?




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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[tricia]

Tricia for President!!!!!!!!
unfortunately that will never be an option, sorry

and hk, you're talking about smoking in public, this is not the same as smoking in a private business that is open to the public. i wouldn't want somebody smoking in an elevator either, but the point is still that they are taking away the freedom of business owners to choose whether or not to allow smoking. there are nonsmoking establishments already, you may choose to give them your money, i would like to choose to go to a bar that does allow smoking.

and if given the choice which has been taken away from me, for my own "protection" i would choose to work in an environment where i have to deal with smoke over one where i have to deal with people who want to smoke but cannot.

[Sheeplovr]

If only we could bann Drinking from bars it would be perfect

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[Death Metal Moe]

Smoke THIS!!

It had to be said.


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[FMJeff]

If you want to do something that's offensive to a great many people do it in a private not public place.


Bars are not public places. They are privately owned establishments. Ban smoking from administrative buildings...fine. State run institutions....fine. Parks...fine. MY STORE....thats fucked up.

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[tricia]

so, tonight was the first night i worked since the ban. we were dead, i made 10 bucks.

i hardly saw anyone going outside for a cigarette which to me says that the smokers went elsewhere or stayed home. i'm just hoping that'll change with the warmer weather, otherwise i'll be looking for a new job...

[silera]

Tricia, as you stand on the unemployment line, take solace in the fact that your sacrifice helped save lives, and lowered someone else's drycleaning bill.

You are a true American Hero.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[blakjeezis]

If you want to do something that's offensive to a great many people do it in a private not public place.

Like burning the flag, or turning your back on it during the National Anthem?

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 4-2-03 @ 9:18 PM

[hyperspace]

if they ban masterbation boy will you see my mean side buddy!!! as far as smoking goes don't smoke/dont care they could make cigs illegal and pull them from the market for all i care.

[El Mudo]

Didn't drink.

Didn't smoke


If he doesn't drink and doesn't smoke...what does he do?

....Garry Owen....

[Bama]

I just saw this on Fark. Screw smoking. The cool kids eat tobacco to get around the ban.


Edit: I can't get the link to work right now. Guess you'll just have to trust me til it's not farked.
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BCNCT0QR24ZNACRBAEOCF FA?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2497505

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http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BCNCT0QR24ZNACRBAEOCF FA?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2497505

This message was edited by bamanation on 4-3-03 @ 1:25 AM

[CruelCircus]

For the record, second-hand smoke has not been linked to cancer of any kind. None. And, no causation to any other diseases in adults has ever been proven.
In fact, the only significant study on the subject that's actually been done (funded by the World Health Organization, and published in the Journal of the AMA) proves second-hand smoke is essentially harmless, other than making your clothes smell, and irritating pre-existing conditions. But it doesn't CAUSE anything new.

If any of you have not yet checked out "Penn & Teller's Bullshit" on Showtime, they did a great piece on the NYC ban, and the larger issue. Try and catch it in reruns if you can.

Basically, the government announced its interpretation of the study to be that "second-hand smoke causes cancer." However, that interpretation was blatantly counter to the facts and conclusions of the people who actually did the study, and was almost immediately deemed false and thrown out by a federal judge. But, to this day, most of the anti-smoking people sight that press release as their "source" for their info. The whole anti-smoking movement is built on a mountain of hooey. (Or at least the 2nd hand part, anyway...)

Jim
-non-smoker


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[A.J.]

Eatery Offers Menu for Tobacco-Deprived

Thu Apr 3, 7:48 AM ET Add Oddly Enough - Reuters to My Yahoo!

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A New York restaurant has cooked up a way to beat the city's tough new anti-tobacco ban.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=573&e=2&u=/nm/20030403/od_nm/life_smoking_dc

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 4-3-03 @ 12:21 PM

[Se7en]

Alcohol does siginificant damage to the system. Why is that still allowed in bars and clubs?

The riots there would be if we banned alcohol (again). God, how much blood would be shed by the drunks on this board alone?

I miss the Prohibition. It made liquor smuggling so much more fun.

i hardly saw anyone going outside for a cigarette which to me says that the smokers went elsewhere or stayed home. i'm just hoping that'll change with the warmer weather, otherwise i'll be looking for a new job...

I don't smoke, but I'll say this: if you can't go out and have a good time because you simply can't give up one of your vices for the few hours it takes to enjoy a night out at your favorite restaraunt / bar / club / whatever, then you are fucking PATHETIC.

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I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

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---Saint Iago

[FiveB247]

Does it bother anyone that not only can you now not smoke in bars, etc.. That the government chooses to constantly raise taxes on cigarettes, is currently suing 'big tobacco' for billions and all the while it is the smoker/ cigarette buyer who suffers physically and economically?

Ps..Smokem' if you got'em...outside...haha

[GaryWyze]

<font color=purple>

I find this smoking ban to be one step closer to the envisioned by George Orwell in 1984.

1st that Gluck guy, now Oliver Stone has hacked your account?

This job infringes on my civil liberties, first and foremost, the right for a business owner to determine what should and should not be allowed to go on in his establishment.


Your civil liberties end when they start infringing on the liberties of others. And a business owner most certainly doesn't have the right to determine what goes on inside his establishment.

If that was the case, I'd open up crack-dens by the dozen. Maybe call them McJunkies. Put some blunts and ecstaty on the value menu.

"You deserve a break today, come on down and smoke your problems away, at McJunkie, we do it all for you."

Is this a question of health? Alcohol does siginificant damage to the system. Why is that still allowed in bars and clubs

Because nobody ever died from 2nd hand beer breath. Whiskey go into YOUR body, smoke goes into EVERYBODY's body. You can't even begin to equate the two.

That said, I don't support this law either. Not because I think that today it's the cigarettes, tomorrow it's the banana flavored slurpees. There's nothing unjust or dangerous about this law.

My opposition to it lies in the fact that if people chose to expose them selves to 2nd hand smoke, that's a choice they should be able to make. As is the case with drugs and prostitution.

But we've somehow managed to have avoided becoming the next Iraq even with laws on the books forbidden both of the above.

I think the Union will survive.

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[FMJeff]

If that was the case, I'd open up crack-dens by the dozen. Maybe call them McJunkies. Put some blunts and ecstaty on the value menu.


I addressed this. Narcotics are illegal. Smoking is not. If smoking is such a serious public health issue, why is the government so ad hoc in its mission to protect the public health? Ban smoking across the board if that's the case.

Nobody ever died from second-hand cocaine or ecstasy use either, so why is that illegal? There's no logical consistency to these laws.

It's funny how in this country marijuana is a narcotic and in Amsterdam its a part of culture.

This government is tripping all over itself trying to justify its own conservatism.

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[HordeKing1]

Of course drugs should be legalized.

Alcohol and smoking each account (separately) for more deaths annually than all other drugs combined.



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[Bama]

All drugs are bad. I don't like when people other than me are happy.

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[HordeKing1]

Drugs should be legalized, but that doesn't mean you have to take them.

The idea is to be happy on your own. Drugs don't make you happy, they provide a potentially dangerous temporary escape.

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[Se7en]

It's funny how in this country marijuana is a narcotic and in Amsterdam its a part of culture.

You and your obsession with the Netherlands!

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I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

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[TooCute]

Your civil liberties end when they start infringing on the liberties of others.

Umm... exactly whose civil liberties are being infringed upon? (besides the smokers, I mean)

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[TheMojoPin]

Well, I think in theory they'd say "the right to breathe clean air," but that's just insane because then they wouldn't be living in NYC to begin with...

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[GaryWyze]

Umm... exactly whose civil liberties are being infringed upon? (besides the smokers, I mean)

<font color=purple>Ahh... anybody who's forced to inhale somebody else's smoke (besides the smokers, I mean)

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[TooCute]

Ahh... anybody who's forced to inhale somebody else's smoke (besides the smokers, I mean)


And who is forcing these peoples whose civil liberties are apparently being infringed upon to go into the privately owned bars where said infringement is happening?

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