What do the "peace" protesters want?

[HordeKing1]

Visit this site to find out.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030326/170/3mouc.html&e=8



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[ChickenHawk]

Well that'll solve your problems! Oh wait, what's that word again, for someone who blames their troubles on Jews and thinks killing them will fix everything? Whatta they called again? ...Oh! Oh, that's right: NAZIS.

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[Meatball]

unbelievable hatred and ignorance running amok throughout the world. If they got their wish and the jews were "all gone" they would turn the hatred onto Christians or some other group.

Armageddon is coming folks - start stocking up on water and snicker bars.

<IMG SRC="http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/philex/meatball1.jpg">

[silera]

Yeah, all of them want to kill jews.

While we're at it, all blacks want to kill whitey, and all whites are KKK members.

Hispanics also plan to rule the world through superior and accelerated procreation.



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[Meatball]

Hispanics also plan to rule the world through superior and accelerated procreation.



you obviously havent attended a Peurto Rican Day Parade in Manhattan before.

j/k

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[silera]

you obviously havent attended a Peurto Rican Day Parade in Manhattan before.


Of course not.

I'm Dominican.


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[Death Metal Moe]

I keep hearing Libs on this board trying to tell me that
these people are the "fringe" in the Anti-War movement,
but time after time I see they're the norm and the
majority.

These protests are anti Jew, Bush and America rallys in
disguise.


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[HBox]

These protests are anti Jew, Bush and America rallys in
disguise.


If that makes you feel better, go on and keep believing that.

[silera]

I keep hearing Libs on this board trying to tell me that
these people are the "fringe" in the Anti-War movement,
but time after time I see they're the norm and the
majority.

Of course the media wouldn't distort the truth by displaying photos for shock value.

I'm sure you've assumed that all women that live in the ghetto only possess spandex clothing and routinely conduct their daily activities wearing rollers while dangling a child from one hip, considering that's the person a news anchor will inevitably choose to get an eyewitness report from after a shooting.


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[DarkHippie]

Yes, HordeKing, I am obviously anti-Jew. I guess I'll go send MYSELF to a gas chamber then.

Are you trying to become a shock poster now?

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[SoLost22]

As a college student I can't help but be bothered by many of these anti-war protesters who have been giving coolege students the world over a bad name.

"God looks after drunks, fools, and the United States."

[Death Metal Moe]

If that makes you feel better, go on and keep
believing that.


I feel great. I support the troop and the war effort.

I'm not wasting my time and the emergency budget of
large towns by hosting Puke ins and Die ins.

How will you Libs feel when 1st responders can't get to
your dying family members or your burning houses?
Because that's what's at stake here.


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[TooCute]

I keep hearing Libs on this board

Are all anti-war people libs? Or are all libs anti-war? Who exactly are you referring to?

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[HBox]

Wow. Another reply where you completely change the subject!

How will you Libs feel when 1st responders can't get to
your dying family members or your burning houses?


Do you really think police deprtment don't bring in extra cops on days with protest? And since when is the Fire Department at these rallies?

[Death Metal Moe]

I'm referrnig to whoever gets defensive when I talk about
Libs.


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[Tall_James]

I'm referrnig to whoever gets defensive when I talk about
Libs.
ZING!

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[Tall_James]

And since when is the Fire Department at these rallies?
Are you really that dense? When the streets are blocked by protesters laying down across major thoroughfares blocking traffic...emergency vehicles cannot pass.

Rallies in parks and public squares? Not a problem. I totally support their right to protest. When you're laying down in the street, blocking some poor 9-5er from getting home to his family or an Emergency vehicle from getting to potentially life-threatening situation...you're an asshole and should be run over.


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[silera]

How will you Libs feel when 1st responders can't get to
your dying family members or your burning houses?
Because that's what's at stake here.


You're really getting carried away with your "us or them" mentality.

What's at stake is freedom of speech and breeching codes of war that have been respected for centuries.

I suppose calling anyone that doesn't agree with you a "Lib" is your way of not bothering to consider their opinion as worth evaluating because you're better than them.



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[samnyc]

So sad. That image doesn't do anything to improve the image of the rest of the protestors -- but I'm not so sure they're concerned with their image anyway.

But the worst thing is that the growing antisemitism in the world is coming to New York as well ... I feel it more and more in the looks people give me on the subways.

[Death Metal Moe]

What's at stake is freedom of speech and breeching
codes of war that have been respected for centuries.
I suppose calling anyone that doesn't agree with you a
"Lib" is your way of not bothering to consider their opinion
as worth evaluating because you're better than them.


Please, you don't even know who I am. But I am pretty
cool. Thanks for noticing that! :)

I've heard MANY people's opinions on here and I have a
feel for many of their values, or lack of them.

But the point at hand is what good will protests do now
but to gum up our cities? Try another approach, people
just think your assholes who lost an argument now.

And, THE WAR IS 2 WEEKS OLD. If we're still there
fighting as hard as we are now in a year or two, then
maybe I'll be out there marching too. But right now it's
foolish and it's been showing all of us what these protests
are really about.

If you think you'll get a person on the fence to side with
you by clogging up traffic and destroying 9/11 plaques you
are warped.


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[silera]

But the point at hand is what good will protests do now
but to gum up our cities? Try another approach, people
just think your assholes who lost an argument now.

I'm sure they thought the same of the civil rights protesters that staged sit ins in the 60's, and boycotted the bus system, and marched on Washington.

Civil Disobedience has worked in the past and honestly, I think most of the protesters are protesting so that their voices can be heard, not "to win" anything.



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This message was edited by silera on 3-31-03 @ 11:24 PM

[Death Metal Moe]

They're Anti-America/Bush/Jew rallys in disguise. That's
what I think most of them are doing now. That and
they're disenfranchised youth searching for meaning, so
they heard some Hollywood asshole spout off and went
that direction.

Again, if thousands of people die in a war that lasts years,
it will be different. This war is 2 weeks old and we own the
skies, decimated their troops and are within 40-50 miles
of Baghdad at my last check.

That's a pretty good war so far.


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[Bergalad]

What's at stake is freedom of speech and breeching codes of war that have been respected for centuries.

This isn't a good arguement to make. Freedom of speech is not being threatened, at least not by peaceful protesters. The radical "let's get arrested" crowd are the ones who are endangering free speech by abusing the right. Yell and protest all you like, but let's stop with the puking.

And this war isn't a breech of "codes of war" as you call them. This is completely justified, and has been covered in other threads, so why keep going on about it? We could have gone back in anytime in the last 12 years for Iraq's violations of the Gulf War Ceasefire. Simple. Accept that and move on. Saddam out of power is far preferable to him in power, and stability in the Middle East is an elusive but worthwhile goal. In this time of suicide bombers and unconventional threats, it is better for us to be pre-emptive than to be post-emptive.

[curtoid]

"I keep hearing Libs on this board trying to tell me that these people are the "fringe"
in the Anti-War movement, but time after time I see they're the norm and the
majority."

No...time after time the media focuses on them during the protest.

Meanwhile, if you watched more than simply FAUX News Channel, you would see...

* Parents of soliders fighting AGAINST THE WAR (NBC) or
* Veterans fighting AGAINST THE WAR (ABC, CNN, CBS)

"They're Anti-America/Bush/Jew rallys in disguise. "

THat is such a pile of horse shit that the far right/anti-peace folks say to dismiss the
criticism.

"they heard some Hollywood asshole spout off and went that direction."

CHRIST! Another fucking deflection! What is the OBSESSION the Anti-Peace folks have
with WHAT HOLLYWOOD SAYS! Here's a news flash - fame means zippy to me, and
most of America.

"Again, if thousands of people die in a war that lasts years, it will be different."

Again - why does the length of the war / number of people who die merit the
legitimacy??? If this lasted one day with no deaths the motivations behind it are still
suspect, and the damage it will have caused through-out the world is too great.

THIS is why MOST of the people are protesting it.

[KOP

[HBox]

Rallies in parks and public squares? Not a problem. I totally support their right to protest. When you're laying down in the street, blocking some poor 9-5er from getting home to his family or an Emergency vehicle from getting to potentially life-threatening situation...you're an asshole and should be run over.


You are right. I got overzealous. My bad.

[silera]

This forum sucks.



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[ChickenHawk]

I'm sure they thought they thought the same of the civil rights protesters that staged sit ins in the 60's, and boycotted the bus system, and marched on Washington.
That connection doesn't work because when people led protests in the 60's for civil rights, it was actually for a righteous cause.

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[curtoid]

"That connection doesn't work because when people led protests in the 60's for civil
rights, it was actually for a righteous cause."

Easy for you to say now, with 30 years of hind-sight.

I know of people today who are for this war who were against the civil rights
movement.

History will sort this out, however I'm not so sure a rush to invade a country based on
a goverment think tanks' personal vision of a New American Century is righteous, nor
do I believe worsening an already bad situation with the world that makes it more
dangerous by playing into Osama Bin Ladden's hands is righteous.

Anti-peace is not righteous.

[KOP]










This message was edited by KOP on 3-31-03 @ 10:39 PM

[Recyclerz]

This forum sucks.

Abandon all hope ye who enter here



[b]Free Yerdaddy![b]

[silera]

That connection doesn't work because when people led protests in the 60's for civil rights, it was actually for a righteous cause.

Says you.

Poopy McPooperton.



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[El Mudo]

I'm sure you've assumed that all women that live in the ghetto only possess spandex clothing and routinely conduct their daily activities wearing rollers while dangling a child from one hip


Sure were a lot of people like that where i went to high school...

And most of the people against the Civil Rights Legislation in the 60's were Democrats

Also..i wouldnt really consider a bus boycott to be an act of civil disobiedience...hell i dont ride the bus at all its not against the law..

....Garry Owen....

[silera]

Sure were a lot of people like that where i went to high school...
Point?

And most of the people against the Civil Rights Legislation in the 60's were Democrats
Proof?

Also..i wouldnt really consider a bus boycott to be an act of civil disobiedience...hell i dont ride the bus at all its not against the law..

Wrong.

Dismissed.

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This message was edited by silera on 3-31-03 @ 11:52 PM

[Bergalad]

Anti-Peace

I take offense to that. You want me to label you as a "Pro-Saddam C-Gobbler"? That's enough with the "anti-peace" shit.

[The Blowhard]

What the fuck is this "Lib" stuff? I know of many "Cons" are are opposed to this war.
This "Liberal this" and "Conservative that" stuff is mindless. We are all AMERICANS FIRST.
Protesting the war does not make one a traitor.
However, I agree with Tall James. Laying in the street and blocking traffic makes life miserable for the everyday "working stiff", and he's correct when he said that it impedes emergency vehicles. No? Well let's hope that your house isn't on fire, or that you don't need an ambulance during one of the protests.
Civil Disobedience? Yes, but after 911 don't you think that New Yorkers have been through enough shit?

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/Heck.gif>

[curtoid]

"I take offense to that... That's enough with the "anti-peace" shit."

Tough. Get over it.

In this rush to war, there is an element that never wanted peace - made no effort to
resolve this without spilling blood of Americans and Iraqis. There was an unprovoked
rush to get in there without getting support / without getting enough troops in place /
without having a reasonable excuse for going in and slaughtering civilians.

15 more dead, by the way, at a roadbock - turns out the Americans failed to fire a
warning shot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61229-2003Mar31.html

Meanwhile there is a complete an utter disdain for anyone remotely saying they want
peace ("UNPATRIOTIC!" UNAMERICAN!" "NOT SUPPORTING THE TROOPS!") that the
only logical reason is they are against peace, at all cost.

[KOP]










This message was edited by KOP on 4-1-03 @ 9:28 AM

[TheMojoPin]

So...did anyone else download the new Radiohead album?!?

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[A.J.]

So...did anyone else download the new Radiohead album?!?

Tell us a story Mojo...

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A Skidmark production.

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[TheMojoPin]

Tell us a story Mojo...

Well, it all began a long time ago, on the best website EVER...

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[DarkHippie]

the Spoogmonkeys like the moon
http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/

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[high fly]

Ahhhhh, one of my favorite topics of yore from the show: "Would you blow up the moon?"

" and they ask me why I drink"

[NewYorkDragons80]

GREATEST LINK EVER:
http://www.homestarrunner.com

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[El Mudo]

And most of the people against the Civil Rights Legislation in the 60's were Democrats


Proof?



Are you kidding me? the Civil Rights Act of 64 had the longest fillibuster of any bill ever introduced into Congress, mostly held up by democrats. Al Gore Sr.(A democrat) lost his seat because he did not support Civil Rights legislation. For most of his career Strom Thurmond was a Democrat. George Wallace was a Democrat. Robert Byrd was once in the Klan, and the last time i checked, he was the Senior Democrat in the Senate

And still, how is deciding not to ride the bus against the law? the last time i checked the law didnt say i had to ride the bus. Therfore, it is not civil disobiedience. how is walking instead of riding the bus against the law?

....Garry Owen....

[Bergalad]

Tough. Get over it.

No, I won't get over it. Just because you are a Saddam-loving, dictator-appeasing coward doesn't mean I have to "get over it". You like to be labelled? Don't you fucking dare call me anti-peace and sit there all smug about it. I am in the Army, and not a one of us wants war, not ever. There you sit with your generalizations and sheltered life, making judgements about which you have no comprehension.
without having a reasonable excuse for going in and slaughtering civilians.

You don't know a damn thing. You want to demean the soldiers who have sworn with their lives to protect your way of life? What's wrong with you?
15 more dead, by the way, at a roadbock - turns out the Americans failed to fire a warning shot.

The Iraqis just blew up a car bomb two days ago killing 4 americans. Now a van runs a roadblock and you expect the military to just wave as they go past. Retard. You have no concept about ROE so don't comment on them. The military doesn't fire "warning shots" anymore. We aren't there to warn, we are there to kill and win. Oh, and fuck you for challenging what the troops did while you sit all fat and stupid in Virginia. I am so glad the oath we swear is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the idiots of this country who don't have a clue as to what it takes to be a soldier.

[HordeKing1]

Another thing completely ignored by the protestors is that we GAVE peace a chance. It didn't work.

Pax Americana

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[ChickenHawk]

You don't know a damn thing. You want to demean the soldiers who have sworn with their lives to protect your way of life? What's wrong with you?
The Iraqis just blew up a car bomb two days ago killing 4 americans. Now a van runs a roadblock and you expect the military to just wave as they go past. Retard. You have no concept about ROE so don't comment on them. The military doesn't fire "warning shots" anymore. We aren't there to warn, we are there to kill and win. Oh, and fuck you for challenging what the troops did while you sit all fat and stupid in Virginia. I am so glad the oath we swear is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the idiots of this country who don't have a clue as to what it takes to be a soldier.
God bless you.

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[silera]

Another thing completely ignored by the protestors is that we GAVE peace a chance. It didn't work.

Pax Americana

That's a lie.

Pax Americana is double speak.

We can all agree to disagree about whether or not we should be at war, but I for one refuse to be spoonfed bullshit about protecting America when basic steps have yet to be implemented here first.

Secure our borders, secure our ports, secure our modes of mass transport. Not only will jobs be created and the economy stimulated, all the money spent for defense would be spent here, in America.

God bless us all.


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[TheMojoPin]

Another thing completely ignored by the protestors is that we GAVE peace a chance. It didn't work.

Why, did Iraq invade Atlanta while I wasn't looking?

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[CruelCircus]

How will you Libs feel when 1st responders can't get to
your dying family members or your burning houses?

Sadly, it's already happened.
My friend (no, not a friend of a friend or I heard from this guy who knows a guy... direct source) is a nurse in a DC area hospital. She sent me this, on this subject:

However, when a trauma patient is taken to a different hospital farther away because the ambulance couldn't get to them
because of the type of protests going on, and that delay caused a couple to lose their child, I get pretty pissed off, no matter what people are protesting.

It happened on Friday morning in DC. An ambulance couldn't get to an accident in SW DC when Washington Hospital Center is less than five miles away. The mom had to be airlifted to Fairfax, and in that span lost too
much blood to keep her unborn child alive. When we got her, the heart rate of the baby was in the fifties (normal is 120-150). An emergency c-section was done, but it was too late. I watched the child die.

Keep protesting!


<br>If the US Government decides to stick a tracking device up your ass,
you say "Thank you!", and "God bless America!"
-Red Forman

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[TheMojoPin]

So the message is "all peace protestors killed this kid", right?

Wrong.

Idiots breaking the law killed this kid. If I'm standing somewhere on a sidewalk or in a park with a sign, how am I a part of this? But seriously, anyone go ahead and blame everyone opposed to the war. It's the fun, easy thing to do.

"Remember to tune in to the 'ALL-SPIN ZONE', America's fastest growing cable news program on America's fastest growing cable news network!"

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-3-03 @ 1:15 PM

[curtoid]

Bergalad, there are people who wanted this war, those who didn't, and then there are
people caught between the two.

Those that wanted this war are the ones who have made "Peace" the dirty word; who
somehow couldn't wait to get this started; they were the first ones, from day one,
who called protesters Anti-American, even taking it as far to call them terrorists in the
state of Oregon; they have even gone so far as to shame a movie company to change
a poster for "What A Girl Wants" because the young girl in the poster had the two
fingers up forming a "Peace" sign (or is it a "Victory" sign? - does it even fucking matter
that this image was decided months ago???!).

THOSE are the people I am calling Anti-Peace.

If what I described is you, then I stand by my comment of "get over it." I am not
looking for the validation of a stranger for my opinion, nor am I looking to debate an
OPINION. If the above isn't you, then also "get over it" because I obviously wasn't
talking about you. If I said, "Hey ASSHOLE" in a crowded room, would you then turn?

Again - to clarify even more - I am not calling people who support the president or the
war Anti-Peace. As I have said DOZENS OF TIMES, now that we are in this I AM
PRAYING FOR A SWIFT END AND THAT WE FIND PROOF THAT WE WERE RIGHT!

There is a lot more riding on that than simply our disagreements over whether or not it
was the right war to start at the right time.

Despite your inaccurate assessment of me, I "get" a lot more than what you think,
son. I have been in a military and governmental environment my entire life (both
personal and professional), and have the utmost respect for the men and women
there (including family).

You claim that you are in the Army, and you exaggerate that there is NOT ONE PERSON
who is in the service for anything more than altruistic reasons; that there is no blood
lust from ANYONE over there.

Fine.

Again, to clarify once more, my problem has never been with the military over there -
the blood of our soldiers and the civilian deaths are on the hands of the true architects
of this mess, and none of them are anywhere near Iraq right now. Our people have
been put in a horrible situation; a situation they will remain for years, not because this
is like Vietnam, but because this is Beirut, by way of Belfast.

My only real problem with the military is with cretins who identify themselves as being
from the military who then make hateful comments like, "I am so glad the oath we
swear is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the idiots of this country who
don't have a clue as to what it takes to be a soldier." All in an effort to PROVE that
they aren't Anti-Peace.

Yeah...that sure proved it to me.

But, as creepy and neo-Fascist as that statement was, I can get over it!

Why? Because, just as you don't know me, I don't know. We have no way of knowing
what's in the heart of a stranger over the internet.

For example, you obviously have no idea that I have a sibling serving over in the
middle east right now, right? You wouldn't know that I am concerned for one cousin
and her family of missionaries who are serving in the very Muslim nation of Tanzania
right now, would you? Bet you also don't know that I have another cousin who
recently was called back into service as a Secret Service agent, huh?

And I just bet that you don't know that I spent last September 8th and 10th with Colin
Powell, in conjunction with the volunteer work I did looking for body parts at Fresh
Kills. Nor would you suspect that I am friends with former FBI director Bill Sessions, and
his wife Alice, or that I know my way around the Le'Enfant offices of the NTSB.

I could go on, but why should I...none of that would dawn on you, junior, because you
live in a world that is very, very, VERY black and white. No, because I am Pro-Peace, I
must hate the military, the government, the president and the country.

That is all right, though. Think whatever big thoughts you want to

[Bergalad]

I had this reply all done, but the thing didn't post, so let me paraphrase it all:

1. You told me in a blanket statement to "get over it". Don't do a Dixie Chicks and backpedal now. Admit when you are wrong and move on.

2. You comments of "junior" and "son" reveal a serious self-confidence issue. Quit trying the simplistic demeaning Jedi tricks on me and go get some psychiatric help.

3. You say you have been around a military environment all your life. Great. Try being IN the military environment and then maybe you would have the perspective to criticize what we do.
My only real problem with the military is with cretins who identify themselves as being from the military
4. I am currently serving in the Active Duty Army and have been for 10 years. Wanna call my 1SG? Stay in your lane.

5. Anyone who has to give such a grandiose and verbose defense of his background is most likely not being very honest. Colin having you over soon for a BBQ? Lovely.
I love you Bergalad.

Now, get over it.
6. I don't think anyone could after a statement like that. Excuse me, but I am gonna go take a "Crying Game" shower now.

[HordeKing1]

These are not the droids you are looking for

<img src="http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking1">

[Se7en]

I keep hearing Libs on this board trying to tell me that these people are the "fringe" in the Anti-War movement,
but time after time I see they're the norm and the majority.

These protests are anti Jew, Bush and America rallys in
disguise.

Be careful, Moe, or the elf is likely to come in here and yell at you.

Although I think it is fair to say that most of the anti-war crowd isn't exactly a fan of Bush or necessarily a member of his party.

Do you really think police deprtment don't bring in extra cops on days with protest?

Which costs money. Money which a) many cities don't have to spend, given their budgets, and b) is a supreme waste. It's literally pissing away money. Next time someone comes on here and criticizes the government - federal, state, or local - for not spending enough money on programs such as education, remember this. Maybe they'd have the extra cash to throw around if they didn't have to pay to deal with fuckwads who are expressing their free speech by laying down in the goddamn road and disrupting society instead of changing it.

I'm sure they thought they thought the same of the civil rights protesters that staged sit ins in the 60's, and boycotted the bus system, and marched on Washington.

King never did anything half as retarded as a "puke-in." Go read Halberstam's "The Children." Comparing the protesters of the 60s to the protesters of today is an insult.

15 more dead, by the way, at a roadbock - turns out the Americans failed to fire a warning shot.

You're a fucking asshole. I sincerely mean that.

Let's see how you react when you've got a vehicle bearing down on you, knowing there's at least 50/50 chance, if not better, that it's a suicide bomber that's going to smoke your ass.

<img border="0" src="http://Se7enRFNet.homestead.com/files/se7en.jpg" width="300" height="100">

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[Death Metal Moe]

All I know is that the Armed Forces are the ones doing something noble. They are liberating an opressed people as they distroy and disarm an evil dictator who has and would do anything he could to hurt us and our allies.

The peace protestors are getting more and more wacky as they become more and more irrelivant. Violence now seems to be a common part of protests. These are not the peaceful 70's protests people like to think they are. And they're devoid of any real substance. What they ARE is a thinly vailed Anti-Bush/America/Jew congregation.

As Americans, we have the right to disagree, I understand that. But all the protests do now is drain budgets of large towns that are waiting for new money that's in legislation.

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<b>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!</b>
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[TooCute]

What they ARE is a thinly vailed Anti-Bush/America/Jew congregation

This is hardly true. You make it seem as if protesters are out there thinking to themselves, "I hate Bush, America and the Jews. Let me use this war as an excuse to protest against them."

No, the majority protesters are indeed protesting against the war itself. They just aren't necessarily doing it in the most productive way.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=white>

[ChickenHawk]

No, the majority protesters are indeed protesting against the war itself.
How can you say that those people are the majority? I strongly beleive they are the minority, simply because probably 10% of the people out there TODAY were out there when Clinton was doing the same thing on a smaller scale.

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SIG CURRENTLY STUNTING * NEW SIG COMING THIS SPRING

This message was edited by ChickenHawk on 4-4-03 @ 2:48 AM

[TheMojoPin]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but *I* can't fucking STAND Jewish American Bushes. They can go to HELL.

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[TheMojoPin]

But ChickenHawk, you're assuming that most of the war protesters TODAY would oppose the same things that were going on while Clinton was in office. And yes, plenty just don't like Bush, period. I DID protest both, AND I had very different reasons for both...and I can't stand EITHER president! So I quite frankly don't give a damn why this protester is out today or that protester...each person's individual politics and reasons probably differ from my own, so why am I automatically lumped in with the rest, when the only thing I even remotely share with the rest is my opposition to this war...and even THAT is probably for different reasons!

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[ChickenHawk]

<center><b>
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[GaryWyze]

No, the majority protesters are indeed protesting against the war itself.

<font color=purple>Since you're so against labels and sweeping generalizations, what facts have you to back that up?

Because I suspect attending a war protest these days has the same appeal that attending woodstock 2 & 3 did. It's cool and retro and a good chance to hook up.

After all, everybody knows that peace chicks put out.

I don't begrudge anybody their right to protest. They're simply exercising the very freedom that our armed forces are now fighting, and sometimes dying, to defend.

But many of these protest and protesters have a hateful tone to them. They seem more about causing chaos than they do about being heard. More anti-american than pro-peace.

When I think of true pacifism, defense of terrorist and intentionally setting out to fuck up the morning commute of innocent commuters aren't exactly the images which spring to mind.

The march on Selma was one thing, mass vomiting on the Golden Gate Bridge is quite another.

<center>http://czm.racknine.net/images/krustysig.jpg

Much thanks to CZM for the killer sig

>>Fuck YERDADDY, Free Our POWs<<

[curtoid]

Bergalad

Kind of sad that those were the six things you chose to pick out of what I wrote.

1. Um...I repeated my comments to "get over it" not once buy twice, and even
bothered to give clarification...I can't hold your hand any more.

2. Son, why would I take psychiatric help from someone over the internet?

3. I said more than enough to explain my position and my perspective. I'm sorry if you
unable to have a world view other than your own.

4. Why this horrible need to prove yourself to me? Is your Daddy in your life? Did he
spank you too much as a child, or maybe it wasn't enough? Seriously, junior, YOU
might want to go get some help on this - you seem to have some deep seated "Love
Me Daddy" issues.

5. No, dude, I was trying to illustrate a point - you come on here, showing your dick
DEMANDING respect, making assumptions about me, while I am suppose to believe
every word of your boasting - OH! But if I say anything it's a "grandiose and verbose
defense of his background" - thanks for playing, by the way...your answer was exactly
as I suspected.

Your little racist joke aside, I've met Colin Powell three time - twice last year around
the 9/11 anniversary (once up at Fresh Kills and the second at the Pentagon), and the
third time years ago when I was working at Ft. Myers.

6. Again, I can't help it if you don't understand the world outside your door; that you
zero in and obsess on things you think you know , and shut out anything that you
can't wrap your brain around. It doesn't take a Jedi Master or a Buddhist Monk, or
even David Lynch, to comprehend compassion for everyone.

Instead of "The Crying Game" why not go rent the first season of "Twin Peaks," son. It
will make you feel a lot better.

[KOP]





















This message was edited by KOP on 4-4-03 @ 7:59 AM

[curtoid]

Republicans have no moral high ground on this one, dismissing those that desent as
simply being "Anti-Bush."

In the late 1990s there was a small protest mounted against the bombing in Bosnia.
About 2000 people marched from the Lincoln Memorial to the Pentagon. It was a very
unusual display.

They were almost evenly split between the hard-cord peacenicks ("no war ever") and
those that simply hated Bill Clinton. The side that hated Clinton - that was all they
were against. Bill Clinton. That WAS the sole reason they were against the war; they
shared nothing else with the other protesters.

This go-around it's more complicated, because many of the hard core peacenicks are
also the same people who would oppose anything from this president; there's more
blurring of the lines. However, any group that would protest against Clinton should
always be counted as peacnicks first / Bush haters second.

Thrown into the mix are the realists, who oppose this war more for reasons of
accountablity and for the long term effects this have.

I don't doubt that there are anti-Bush people in the midst that would not consider
themselves peacenicks, but where then do the GOPers get off dismissing them, since
many of them did the same exact thing a few years ago?

And where did all of this crying come from the right about people bad-mouthing the
president, when these same people spent 8 years (and counting) belly-aching about
Bill Clinton?

If anyone is actually being bi-partisan in all of this, it's the folks on the left. The last I
checked 50% of the democrats supported the war, while close to 99.9999999% of the
Republicans supported it.

[KOP]

[TooCute]

I didn't not 'label' anyone and dismiss their concerns and beliefs as the mindless spew of a brain-washed sheep. I didn't say WHY protesters against the war are against the war, simply that they are protesting against the war - for whatever reason - not against jews or America.

The question of whether protesters are protesting against Bush is more difficult; Bush and his administration (unlike jews and America) are the ones that made the decision to go to war and hence a protest against the war is essentially a protest against Bush.

To suggest that war protests are 'thinly-veiled' protests against America and Jews is outrageous, however. Try talaking to the war protesters. I did, and of the 30 or so people out of my 50+ person department who have been going to war protests, rallies, holding their little teach-ins, and decided to help pass a resolution that the graduate student body was against the war (which I voted against passing. Don't even get me started on that!). Guess what? Even the ones who are distinctly "pro-palestine" in the palestine/israel conflict do not say that they hate Jews or America - in fact, not a single one does.

Is that to say that none of the war protesters hate jews or america? Certainly not. But I'm suggesting to you that very few protesters are likely to be out there for the sole reason that they hate jews and america.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=white>

[Bergalad]

I'm sorry if you unable to have a world view other than your own.
Wait, let me get this straight. If I have a world view other that my own, doesn't that make it my own as well?

Three things:

1. The protesters are not affecting anything because the majority of the country supports the war effort now. The protesters are the definite minority in this and are not really doing much other than causing a hassle for normal people. It's their right to protest, but not in such a way that it impacts on other people's lives so much.

2. My comment was not intended in any way as racist. It was a reference to your alleged buddy-buddy relationship with Powell and that is all. If you took it another way than that, then it is you who has the issue.

3. Don't try and turn your problems around on me. If you want to feebly attack me then send me a PM and I will be happy to get a good laugh and not waste everyone else's time with your ludicrous postings. Have a great weekend and say hi to Director Sessions for me. I hated those "say no to drugs" screens he put on video games years ago.

[curtoid]

1. The protesters are affecting plenty. The Anti-Peace crowd (insert yourself in if
wanted) have had their panties in a twist for weeks now, obsessed about those that
protest, looking for the enemy at home; exposing their true colors. They are the ones
who care what Susan Sarrandon and Michael Moore have to say; they are the ones
who have made The Dixie Chicks public enemy #2 (after Iraq and France, but
surprisingly before Eddie Veder and Osama Bin Ladden! - shocking!!)

2. Those that break the law know what they are getting into; I've never agreed with
that.

3. The reason that the majority of the country supports the war effort now is because
most everyone agrees that the only way to end this is to finish this. This war was
started with 50% approval rating.

4. Nevertheless, it's important for those who feel we got into this for the wrong
reason, that we went about this the wrong way, and that, despite the spin, that the
price that has been paid, and will be paid, is too high to speak up.

5. I never claimed to be buddy-buddy with Colin Powell; having a conversation with
him at events hardly merits me claiming that.

6. I have no problems. Not displacing anything here, son.

7. How have I attacked you? I seem to remember a certain little G. I. Chode who felt
the need to spew this crap at me:

"you are a Saddam-loving, dictator-appeasing coward ..There you sit with your
generalizations and sheltered life...You don't know a damn thing...Retard...You have
no concept about ROE so don't comment on them...while you sit all fat and stupid in
Virginia..."

Yeah...you got my number there, junior.

Keep barking orders to stangers over the internet, you fucking low-life...anyone who
makes these kind of comments is pure and simple a thug...

"I am so glad the oath we swear is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the
idiots of this country."

Yeah, yeah...I know Buddhists are known for being giving people, that is why I'd love
the opportunity to give you an ass kicking the likes of which you've never seen.

9. I will e-mail Bill right away and pass along your message.

9. You also have a lovely, lovely weekend.



[KOP]



















This message was edited by KOP on 4-4-03 @ 7:47 PM

[IrishAlkey]

All I know is that the Armed Forces are the ones doing something noble. They are liberating an opressed people as they distroy and disarm an evil dictator who has and would do anything he could to hurt us and our allies.



You should change your name to Death Metal Rumsfeld.

<center>http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/alkey2.gif</center><marquee><font color=red size=4>2%</font></marquee>

[The Chairman]

I say let the US Government take some of the money it's spending on the war and send all the peace protesters to Iraq to live. I'm sure they would find the conditions there more desirable than here under Bush in the USA.

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[TheMojoPin]

YEAH!!! IN YOUR FACE!!! THAT'LL LEARN THEM TO BE AMERICAN, X-TREME TO THE MAX!!! DO THE DEW!!! I LOVE CHACHI!!!

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-5-03 @ 1:03 PM

[Bergalad]

Yeah, yeah...I know Buddhists are known for being giving people, that is why I'd love the opportunity to give you an ass kicking the likes of which you've never seen.
That's nice that your issues cause you to get so mad you feel the need to threaten me. I am sure your family is very proud of you.

[Se7en]

Quote:
Yeah, yeah...I know Buddhists are known for being giving people, that is why I'd love the opportunity to give you an ass kicking the likes of which you've never seen.


That's nice that your issues cause you to get so mad you feel the need to threaten me. I am sure your family is very proud of you.


Well your argument fails, there's always plan B - threatening physical violence.

<img border="0" src="http://Se7enRFNet.homestead.com/files/se7en.jpg" width="300" height="100">

I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

"I was here before the oceans turned black with life, and when the deserts are white with death I will remain."
---Saint Iago

[curtoid]

How exactly did my argument fail?

Seriously, take the time and point this out to me, or are you simply picking and
choosing things to take out of context without backing it the fuck up? Did you bother
to see me extend a sincere olive branch a couple of days ago to The Scientoligist,
basically saying that even though I disagree with him, I reject all violence and love him
as I love any other person? Yes, there is part of me that would love to kick his ass, but
(and take note here) wanting to do something is much different than actually
threatening to do something.

Got that?!

Or are people who have different opinions from yourself not allowed to defend
themselves when they read things from people supposedly in the service who say
they are there to protect the constitution but not "the stupid people."

OH! and speaking of G.I. Chode - I was done responding to your stuff, because you
are a worthless and weak drone who no longer amuses me, but just to answer your
question - "my" issues didn't make me mad - I did not threaten you - (again) I simply
expressed a desire to have an opportunity to do something based on your
un-American statement about the PEOPLE you regret that you inadvertently defend; a
desire that would make my family proud.

Now go read some more L. Ron Hubbard.

[extracheese]

THe beautiful thing is - that even with your petty peace tantrums and pacifist naive sheeplike mentalities - WE ARE DOING THIS wether you like it or not.
we are in there as we speak removing a despot, anihilating his supporters and freeing his subjects.

ranting aside - there isnt one single thing you can do about it.

HOWS THAT FOR A FIRST POST!!! ;)

This message was edited by extracheese on 4-5-03 @ 11:42 PM

[Def Dave in SC]

Civil Disobedience has worked in the past


Mass pukings are not civil at all.


I'm sorry if you unable to have a world view other than your own.


Hey deek, i could say the same about you. you fucking retard.


Why is it that the people who rant the most, and who can't ever let somebody else post without giving a long-winded reply, always have a way of posting that can't enter two lines of text without hitting enter?


The Montgomery County Mobster
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Much Love to my Homie dcpete

Its Like Having a Football Helmet Inside Your Head

[curtoid]

Def Dave -

Get some context before commenting - defending myself from an attack is a little
different than calling someone out for being singled mindedness. Those that can't
change their minds, don't have minds to begin with.

One question...why the need to constantly try and shove yourself in other discussions
with your mighty 17 year old insight? Aside from "deek" and "fucking" I'm sure I've
never seen anything of substance with anything you've ever written here, but maybe I
am wrong.

If you need attention, just ask.

[KOP]





This message was edited by KOP on 4-6-03 @ 12:28 AM

[Def Dave in SC]

One question...why the need to constantly try and shove yourself in other discussions


This is a message board. I post my opinions in the thread. what else am i supposed to do?
I'm sorry if you're to mature for what i post, get over it.


The Montgomery County Mobster
<img src="http://members.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/```def.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US">
Much Love to my Homie dcpete

Its Like Having a Football Helmet Inside Your Head

[Bergalad]

defending myself from an attack

You started the offensive, not me.
OH! and speaking of G.I. Chode

Your reviling of the military is obvious. You have no respect for anyone who is in the service so don't try and lie to the board again on that matter.
you
are a worthless and weak drone who no longer amuses me
Another jab at the military. And I am certainly not here to amuse you.
I did not threaten you
oh, but you said
that is why I'd love the opportunity to give you an ass kicking the likes of which you've never seen.
Don't even try and cover that shit up. Pretend you are a man for a little while, alright?

Then I said:
I am so glad the oath we swear is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the idiots of this country who don't have a clue as to what it takes to be a soldier.
You said:
your un-American statement about the PEOPLE you regret that you inadvertently defend: a desire that would make my family proud.
Again, you are the reason we in the military are not here to defend the people, we are to defend the Constitution. There's a good chunk of the population (add yourself here) which isn't worth the spit of a US servicemember, let alone his or her blood.
Now go read some more L. Ron Hubbard.
Not a Scientologist, and that has no bearing on this in any way. It's too bad you are so misguided. I hope you will be straightened out soon.

[curtoid]

You are the one who started this little train wreck with your personal attacks, not me.
You were the one who played victim when I responded. You are the one who
continues to lie about what I have said.

Since when is having no respect for YOU the same as having no respect for the
military?

The "drone" comment was Scientology reference, by the way, but I do see why you
would see it as otherwise - I would be man enough to apologize for that one, but you
would retaliate with another lame Dixie Chicks "back-peddling" comment, so I won't
even bother.

Would "tool" have been a better word, or would that also be a slam on EVERYONE IN
THE MILITARY, since you continue to speak for them? How about "asshole"?

Fine - you are an asshole - you are worthless and, yes, you are weak.

(Actually, we do have names for people like you where I work - "wannabe" or "poser"
or simply "not good enough" - don't worry - I'm sure there are jobs working as a guard
at a fine correctional institution that you will be uniquely qualified for).

OH! And, yes, you are here to amuse me, and you no longer are doing so.

AGAIN...WANTING the opportunity to do something is VERY different from saying I'm
going to find you and doing something. You continue to have selective memory, son;
you have forgotten so soon where I said I am a man of non-violence - that I would
rather take a punch, if it meant there was no more violence.

It doesn't mean that anti-Patriot scum like you don't deserve to be taken out to the
woodshed from time to time.

Again, though - it's you starting an argument, then playing the victim.

In other words, worthless AND weak.

And your continued comments about the people you are supposedly defending just
give more evidence that racist, small minded scum like you do not deserve to serve in
the military.

"I hope you will be straightened out soon."

OOOOH! OOOOH! A THREAT!

[KOP]

[TooCute]

Shut up. Both of you. Your arguing is accomplishing nothing. If you don't shut up, I'm going to rip both of you retards new assholes (yes. That was an insult AND a threat. So take THAT!).

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=white>

[Bergalad]

This all began with my objection to the term "Anti-Peace" and someone had to attack me for it. Whatever. I still object to that term. I'm done.


This message was edited by Bergalad on 4-6-03 @ 3:02 PM

[curtoid]

While no one forced anyone to read this mess, I will gladly stop my participation.

However, if Bergalad wants to continue to follow me around on other threads taunting
me, or lying about me, or to continue to harrass me through the instant messages, all
the while playing the victim (again) I won't "shut up."

[KOP]

[CruelCircus]

So the message is "all peace protestors killed this kid", right?

Wrong.

Idiots breaking the law killed this kid. If I'm standing somewhere on a sidewalk or in a park with a sign, how am I a part of this? But seriously, anyone go ahead and blame everyone opposed to the war. It's the fun, easy thing to do.

No, that's not my message. You (or the other "law-abiders") did not kill this kid; don't worry your conscience can be clear.

The question that does arise, at least for me, is why would legitimate, peaceful protestors allow themselves to be associated with these other types? Why is there seemingly no self-policing in this protest movement? It seems that organizers are much more interested in the numbers that show up for TV than the message that they carry.
You're standing alongside these people- the law-breakers, the vandals, the Bush=Hitler types, the USA bashers. Like it or not, that carries weight- it offers legitimacy to them. No one makes it clear that they don't approve of these people, methods, or messages, so it's not unreasonable to conclude that they DO approve.

It has been said that a person can be judged by the quality of his friends. Maybe the protest movement can be judged the same way.

Jim

<br>If the US Government decides to stick a tracking device up your ass,
you say "Thank you!", and "God bless America!"
-Red Forman

<img src="http://pw2.netcom.com/~jjmace/gifs/brandisig.JPG">

[TheMojoPin]

The question that does arise, at least for me, is why would legitimate, peaceful protestors allow themselves to be associated with these other types?

I don't. I never have. Yet because of my political stance, which is somehow distantly similar to theirs, I am usually deemed "one of them", or, as was just implied in your post, that they are somehow my "friends." I have done nothing BUT condemn these sorts of derivative actions when they are brought up to or around me.

If someone else decides to protest the same cause for different reasons and with different tactics, what the hell does that have to do with me? To me, those people are as different from me as those that support this war. Why is it my "obligation" to try and stop them? Their own foolish actions will belittle and discredit whatever they're trying to push. If people choose to lump me in with them, that's THEIR problem and shortsightedness, not mine.

Besides, by your reasoning, I should damn all of those for this war, for WHATEVER reason, since they're not all speaking out left and right against the racist, cowardly scumbags who happily declare that we should "kill them all" or "level the Middle East"". Why? BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE TO. It's pretty clear when someone is a moron, and it usually seperates them pretty quickly from the rest of the herd. Why is this any different? Why should *I* have to constantly justify MY actions and line of thinking because of the actions and words of some idiot who has NOTHING to do with me? Maybe if it was realized that this is a movement filled with INDIVIDUALS who are in it for many DIFFERENT REASONS as opposed to some brainless collective that just automatically condones and supports whatever their "pals" decide to do. It's a diversionary sort of accusation (Whether it's a realized tactic, I don't know) to belittle the actions and thoughts of anti-war protesters far and wide when these actions are indicative of THAT particular mindset or THOSE people or THAT person, and not a political segment as a whole.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-9-03 @ 1:01 PM