Our education system is failing miserably

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It is sad when alot of people dont know who the Vice President of the US is. Or cant even name their 2 US Senators. Who is to blame? the education system which tries to re write history books? Or is it the parents who dont give a damn about their childrens education, or should we put some of the blame on the children themselves. I find it ridiculous that alot of kids know about their favorite singers entire life but if you asked them to find Iraq on the map they would probably point to Antarctica

Being aware of whats going on in the world is not being a nerd or a geek. Knowing about Eminem's favorite flavor of ice cream is scary.

Kinda makes you think when the #1 rapper is white and the #1 golfer is black

[Wormwood]

my reading comprehension skills arent that great, can you sum up that last post in one sentence.

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Revenge is best served cold!

[silera]

I think the fact that the government can find 80 billion for a war while our state has to cut the education budget may have something to do with it.

Our priorities are all fucked up.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[Wormwood]

It is true though, try finding a differential equations class being taught at night. No one wants to take advanced math anymore, everyone is looking for the quick buck now.

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Revenge is best served cold!

[FUNKMAN]

It's amazing when Jay Leno takes to the street asking basic American history questions and the people are way off or have no idea what the answers are...

i'm sure some of it is nerves...

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This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 4-26-03 @ 6:53 PM

[canofsoup15]

It is sad when alot of people dont know who the Vice President of the US is. Or cant even name their 2 US Senators. Who is to blame? the education system which tries to re write history books? Or is it the parents who dont give a damn about their childrens education, or should we put some of the blame on the children themselves. I find it ridiculous that alot of kids know about their favorite singers entire life but if you asked them to find Iraq on the map they would probably point to Antarctica


You think thats bad you should come to my school, fuck these kids dont know jackshit, granted i am smarter than most of them and am probably more mature, but honestly when you dont know who we fought in world war 2 or what D-DAY was, its a little sad. HELL, these kids dont know what country was in the CIVIL WAR, IT FUCKING CIVIL, it is fun to trick um and ask what 2 countries were in the civil war, that throws um for a loop. They dont know where Mount Rushmore is, they probably dont know where ontario is, and i guarntee they cant name more than 10 state capitals. Meanwhile, if you ask them about Eminem, they'll give you his fucking biography, ask them what lip stick they wear, guarntee they know the exact shade it was.

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Shit, if it's going to be that kind of a party
I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes

[Arienette]

i think it's a combination of things. the education system should try teach more of this stuff, but that only goes so far. i went to public school through high school, and they really do teach you a lot. the problem is that there are a lot of kids who just simply aren't interested in learning, and their parents don't push them to. there were certain subjects (i'm afraid to admit in this forum that the foremost of these was history) in which i had basically no interest at all. but my parents always valued education very highly, and forced me to try. a large part of the blame has to be placed on the parents, i think. if they took more of an interest in what their children were learning, and the progress that they were making, it would help immesurably in many instances.

It is true though, try finding a differential equations class being taught at night. No one wants to take advanced math anymore, everyone is looking for the quick buck nowi got my degree in applied mathematics, and there was no shortage of advanced math courses given at night; these were all at the graduate level. if you're looking for undergraduate courses (which i assume you're not, since those are likely not considered "advanced"), you might have a harder time. if all else fails, maybe i can teach one.

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

Its pathetic that the education system is trying to re write and alter history books to make them politically correct

Kinda makes you think when the #1 rapper is white and the #1 golfer is black

[Disúgrunútled]

As a parent of a 10 year old I think it is not only the teacher's job to educate my son but it is also mine. There is only so much a teacher can do. I admit that certain subjects are not my strong suit but I try to stay a step ahead of my son so that he can come to me for help. I believe that a child should not start his or her education once they hit pre-k but they should begin learning the second they are born. I wish all parents believed that. And yes public school is not necessarily free anymore but you have to lay some money out of your pocket if you want children to have a good education. I know of teachers who use their own money to supply their classrooms. If they can sacrifice to help our kids why can't we? As to the Leno comment unfortunately the people who are giving those answers are graduates of the social promotion. On paper the social promotion is gone but I do not believe it is 100% merit promotions out there. Hopefully in 10 years after parents wise up about a child's education Leno will be made the fool.

I will step off of my soap box now. Thank you for your support. :)

I am, and always will be,in a state of sulky dissatisfaction.

[travis151]

Todays child has so much information he or she can reach out to( T.V. , Radio, the Internet, Newspapers,Books) 24 hours 7 days a week. I can't even try to balance a schedule these days imagine a child going to school playing sports, or music and art after school. While trying to start a social life. Remember that it starts at home parents have to stay on top of their kids. Teachers are not suppose to be babysitters trying to keep up with every student. Its their job to try to teach children hopefully motivating them to learn more. But it relies with the parent to make sure they do their homework. Actually I think kids these days are better educated they have so much information at their finger tips. The problem is we have to motivate them it must be hard to be a teacher these days because life in the 21st century goes by so quickly. Don't forget our parents were saying the same thing 20 years ago and their parents before them. Face it society and generations change.

Red Sox=More Better

[FUNKMAN]

And yes public school is not necessarily free anymore


you're right... it reflects in my real estate taxes...

Hopefully in 10 years after parents wise up about a child's education Leno will be made the fool


you're right... maybe Leno is helping in some small way by exposing what is going wrong with education?

I admit that certain subjects are not my strong suit but I try to stay a step ahead of my son so that he can come to me for help


me too, like Algebra...yuck!

as TooCute can attest, i am not the sharpest tack in the box but luckily my wife took and continues to take her education more seriously... she works full-time and still makes the Deans List at Rider... I can hang with my 10 year old's stuff and I'm a big help with the school projects, arts and crafts...

it's some consolation...
:)

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[Def Dave in SC]

Our education system is failing miserably


Wut R U tokking abawt?????????? I's llernding fine at scool i get grayds.

You think thats bad you should come to my school, fuck these kids dont know jackshit, granted i am smarter than most of them and am probably more mature, but honestly when you dont know who we fought in world war 2 or what D-DAY was, its a little sad. HELL, these kids dont know what country was in the CIVIL WAR, IT FUCKING CIVIL, it is fun to trick um and ask what 2 countries were in the civil war, that throws um for a loop. They dont know where Mount Rushmore is, they probably dont know where ontario is, and i guarntee they cant name more than 10 state capitals. Meanwhile, if you ask them about Eminem, they'll give you his fucking biography, ask them what lip stick they wear, guarntee they know the exact shade it was.


Isnt this the pot calling the kettle black??


The Montgomery County Mobster
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[FUNKMAN]

Wut R U tokking abawt?????????? I's llernding fine at scool i get grayds.



hey, looks like you got a career in Comedy... that was pretty funny...

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[TheMojoPin]

Its pathetic that the education system is trying to re write and alter history books to make them politically correct

Yeah, that's it.

I think we should take a step to making them correct, PERIOD, first.

...

"What's the capital of Zimbabwe?"

"Sheeeit, I don't know that...I'm keepin' it REAL!!!"

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[FiveB247]

It's sad...these morons are our future. We're all doomed.

I think some of it is funding for educational programs, lack of parents' responsibility, our culture as well as goals and morals people hold.

[DarkHippie]

I think its because education is NOT considered a priority by our government, no matter what rhetoritc may erupt from their heads. every time there is a budget crunch, pataki cuts funding to schools. NYC teachers had been working WITHOUT A CONTRACT for a very long time. Bloomberg didn't want to negotiate fairly, Guliani didn't negotiate fairly. and you know why? because they don't have to. It is illegal for teachers to strike, so they can be forced to work with out a contract. They are paid the lowest salaries in the region, and they have the most difficult environments to deal with. no wonder its near impossible to get new teachers to work there.

I say actually make education a priority by actually funding it, instead of just saying you will.

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[East Side Dave]

We don't need no education. And we sure as heck-fire don't need no thought control.

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[ADF]

This thread makes me want to be a teacher, how odd.

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[Se7en]

Quote:
Its pathetic that the education system is trying to re write and alter history books to make them politically correct



Yeah, that's it.

I think we should take a step to making them correct, PERIOD, first.


Yes, because it's ever so much more important to learn all about the slave children Thomas Jefferson fathered than about the thousands of accomplishments he made for this country.

Who cares about that whole Declaration of Independence thing? HE SLEPT WITH A BLACK CHICK!!! Scandalous.

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[FatTony]

It is sad when alot of people dont know who the Vice President of the US is.


This is true to a certain extent. But if you ask who the last Vice President was, most of the people in the world would say Al Gore. In order for someone to know who you are as a Vice President, you have to come out of your hidden bunker more than two times a year. I don't think anyone has been so well protected as Mr. Cheney.

Gore would be about doing things in the public, and thus him almost becoming the new President. If Cheney would run at the next election for president, half of the media would probably ask what his credentials were.

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[TheMojoPin]

Yes, because it's ever so much more important to learn all about the slave children Thomas Jefferson fathered than about the thousands of accomplishments he made for this country.

Who cares about that whole Declaration of Independence thing? HE SLEPT WITH A BLACK CHICK!!! Scandalous.

That's simply what you assume I meant. And we all know what assuming does...

Our history books are just flat out awful. They're rarely updated, gloss over even the most important of events, and try and package our history into date-filled knowledge "nuggets". "PC" has nothing to do with it except for people who are too lazy to actually want to learn history. My main gripe is with the fact that most public schools simply offer "American history", when they should be breaking it up into different eras so our valuable history can be taught and learned properly...

Of course, to do this, you'd need to have more classes, probably more teachers, and thusly more money, and THAT'S not gonna happen...

Se7en, you can't honestly say that when you open up the average public school history book you're happy with what you see. History is one of the greatest subjects around, and it's treated like the academic red-headed stepchild...

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[TooCute]

History is one of the greatest subjects around, and it's treated like the academic red-headed stepchild...


I hate history. Eleventh grade was the last history class I ever took.

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[FUNKMAN]

I think its because education is NOT considered a priority by our government


the people/citizens are to blame as well...

you see a couple hundred thousand in the streets protesting the war but you do not ever see them protesting against education policies...

the media is to blame as well, they will spend several months on the Gary Condit affair... why don't they go into the schools day after day and expose what is going on or not going on...



<img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/funkman.gif">

[canofsoup15]

you see a couple hundred thousand in the streets protesting the war but you do not ever see them protesting against education policies...


Most of the reason they are protesting war is because they are ill-educated to begin with, they dont understand what were doing and how it is inturn a good thing for the iraqi people. They dont know of the awful things Saddam has done to his own people, and they think were just dropping bombs for fun or target practice. They dont understand that were not dropping bombs mon civilians and they dont realize what saddam would and can do if he ever got a nuclear device.

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Shit, if it's going to be that kind of a party
I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes

[HBox]

Most of the reason they are protesting war is because they are ill-educated to begin with, they dont understand what were doing and how it is inturn a good thing for the iraqi people. They dont know of the awful things Saddam has done to his own people, and they think were just dropping bombs for fun or target practice. They dont understand that were not dropping bombs mon civilians and they dont realize what saddam would and can do if he ever got a nuclear device.


That's so ignorant. You obviously have no idea why people are protesting if you seriously believe that.

[DarkHippie]

you see a couple hundred thousand in the streets protesting the war but you do not ever see them protesting against education policies...

Of course I do. there was just a big one a few weeks ago where thousands of college students marched to albany to prtest the massive cuts to education. there have been almost monthly protests by the UFT/AFT about having to work without a contract and in such poor conditions. . . Of course, its been harder since Bloomberg partially dissolved the Board of Education, giving teachers even less clout.

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[El Mudo]

I think its because education is NOT considered a priority by our government, no matter what rhetoritc may erupt from their heads



The federal goverment has spent TRILLIONS of dollars on public education since the 1960's, and it still stinks. Which goes again to prove my point that big government cannot accomplish anything without creating a monumental mess.

And this is the same goverment you want to run my health care Mr. Gephardt?

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[Death Metal Moe]

Sheepy went to public schools his whole life and look how well he spells!

The proof is in the pudding!

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[canofsoup15]

That's so ignorant. You obviously have no idea why people are protesting if you seriously believe that.


I never said all of the people are doing that but at least some of them are, theres other reason too, for instance relatives being in the army and such but i didnt go into detail on those. And Hbox why must you constantly turn everything i say around, i think ive felt more stupid in these past few days than i ever have, thanks. :)

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Shit, if it's going to be that kind of a party
I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes

[silera]

The federal goverment has spent TRILLIONS of dollars on public education since the 1960's, and it still stinks. Which goes again to prove my point that big government cannot accomplish anything without creating a monumental mess.

The government spends about 5 times as much on defense than it does on education.

That's where our priorities lie in this country for all the BS that our policy makers spew during election year.

Public education doesn't stink in affluent neighborhoods that get to funnel all those funds into their school systems.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[FUNKMAN]

there was just a big one a few weeks ago where thousands of college students marched to albany to prtest the massive cuts to education. there have been almost monthly protests by the UFT/AFT about having to work without a contract and in such poor conditions


Hippie,

Thanks for the education(no pun intended)...

this kind of reinforces my other point about the Media... I mostly listen to news stations on the radio and news channels on the tube and do not recall seeing or hearing about educational protests...

guess it's not a ratings earner...

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[DarkHippie]

Funkman,
sadly, its not a ratings earner. I probaly wouldn't be so aware of it, except that most of my family members are teachers.

The federal goverment has spent TRILLIONS of dollars on public education since the 1960's
This is a logical fallacy. 40 years to spend trillions of dollars is nothing, especially compared to our spending elsewhere. Good try though, I'm sure that you caught a few people who just glossed over what you said instead of thinking about it.

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[LiquidCourage]

My sister is a perfect example of our failed education system.

She got all As and Bs in school, but she's one of these people who couldn't tell you a thing if she didn't have to know it for a test.

She couldn't point out a single country on the map other than the US if you asked her, and she probably couldn't tell you anything about current events.

[LiquidCourage]

DarkHippie, I think this "Federal Dollars fixes everything" is part of the problem.

It seems like people think that government spending will cure everything.

It's like it's okay for a kid to not study or do homework at all, it's okay for their parents to not give a shit, it's okay to fuck around in school all day, but then when our schools are a joke people blame it on our budget.

[Disúgrunútled]

The government spends about 5 times as much on defense than it does on education.


I would prefer that the government spends more on defense then on education (with some education funds coming out of my pocket). If we don't have our defenses up someday I might not be able to get an education and my daughters and granddaughters will be bowing down to a man who thinks they are nothing.

If a teacher is good they will find a way to teach our children all they need to know. Money or no money. My son has ben blessed with two of the best teachers public school has to offer. His school is one of the 209 that do not have to change their curiculum in New York. This is not because of grants and only because of the great education the teachers are providing. I am proud to say that I am a parent of a public school child.

I am, and always will be,in a state of sulky dissatisfaction.

[silera]

You're lucky.

My tax dollars come out of my pocket, as does the tuition for private school I have to send my kids to since all but one of the schools in my entire district are failing schools. The one that isn't failing is saved only by its math scores, because it's still failing in reading.

Money does fix things. Well paid teachers, current books, and smaller classrooms, all require funds that my school district doesn't get.

Defense is important, but balance is as well.



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[Disúgrunútled]

I agree that balance is important,Silera. I also agree with you that I am very lucky. My son went to a private school from K-3rd grade. We pulled him out when his teacher had him marking tests for her. She also told us " I do not get paid enough to make 2 lesson plans. If you think he is falling behind teach him at home". It kind of is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

I am, and always will be,in a state of sulky dissatisfaction.

[LiquidCourage]

Why does everyone pick on defense spending?

Why doesn't anyone complain about the tens of billions of dollars we spend on illegal immigrants every year, or how about all the other bullshit things we spend money on?

[A.J.]

Here's a link to the Department of Education's org chart. Before the schools see any money, it has to be filtered through and by this bureaucracy:

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices.jsp

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[LiquidCourage]

I've heard that something like 96 cents of every dollar spent on education never makes it to the classroom.

They really need to trim some of the fat out of there.

[TooCute]

Why doesn't anyone complain about the tens of billions of dollars we spend on illegal immigrants every year, or how about all the other bullshit things we spend money on?

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[TheMojoPin]

Why does everyone pick on defense spending?

Because it's essentially indefinite and gets a "free pass" With issues like education and immigration, you could essentially set goals for certain levels or percentages that need to be met or accomplished. National defense can, in theory, never end and have to constantly be expanded, so it gives those who wish to expand it more and more almost total free reign to just go hogwild with their spending. And nobody's saying we shouldn't spend money on national denfense. Obviously it's important and it requires ungodly amounts of money to stay effective...but it should also be the first place to draw money from if needed since it is so through-the-roof and the biggest drain from our federal budget...

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[Doogie]

Ok as an educator and a person who has to deal with cirriculum I will give my input into what I believe is some of the problems with the education system.

I agree with what the first person said that it is a combination of what is taught and parental influence.

The education system today is based heavily on standardized testing, which means that all the teachers teach the same thing due to the fact that the students will all take the same test. So for example a kid in Mr. Jones' class will take the same final as Mrs. Smiths' class. What this means is that the same thing is taught in all of the classes with no regards to depth on a subject. (I am referring to the subject that I teach, History. But other subjects are affected by this as well.) The reason why this style of teaching/testing is set up is to make it easier for a politician to use as part of a platform when runninbg to say "Well look at the kids in my state and how well they test". Testing is also used by districts to gain more money for projects, and so forth. They say "well our kids do well on math, but not so well on science so we need more money in the budget to cover these areas". Is it their fault? No and yes. No, cause they deserve all the money the can get, especially when other social projects get more money than schools. Yes cause they can easily advocate for more liberal education which allows for actual learning and not pre-packaged curriculum which does not neccessarily teach but allow children to test well.

I do everything I can to divert from the curriculum every so often to give the kids some real depth and feel for history rather than just know names, dates and places. But their is only so far I can go before we have to head back towards the path of following the curriculum or the kids wont realize the innane term on pg576 is necessary to know for the final state exam. So it is tough being an educator in that regards.

The other part of the problem is the lack of participation and/or the ignorance of parents. But this is a day and age where parents do have to work all sorts of hours, or work two jobs, or both work. In my district we have a lot parents that believe they can threaten you with suing if their child does not pass. I had one threaten me with a lawsuit and place my name in newspaper, to which I responded "Ohh yeah, Ill counter-sue for your attempt to defame my character". Keep in mind their child did NOTHING, and I made numerous attempts to call home and send letters home to which there was no reply. Some parents believe that the education system has to do EVERYTHING, including make sure the child does the homework. And yet there are some that try to coddle the child by giving in to their every whim. It is tough raising a kid nowadays, and to get them interested in learning is an equally tough thing. But early education and interest do begin or originate at home.

I also feel a major problem of many schools today is the over interference from counselors (I know I will catch heat from HK for this but just bear with me). Now, I fully advocate having counselors available at school. And some are great at knowing the difference between a real problem and someone who is a drama queen. But other counselors want to have a meeting for every little problem that arises in a childs life when it is clearly not needed. And only the interference from senior counselors or administators can stop this over counseling of students. Yet some students know that they can go to these people if they want to get out of work, or not turn in a project that is due that day (I know this one from first hand experience). I mean anxiety is anxiety, but what the fuck. We all had to deal with it first hand and many of us emerged better in the long run...

Ok I am running a little long with this post, and is getting close to dinner. But these are some of the problems that I feel are wrong with education today.

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[A.J.]

Because it's essentially indefinite and gets a "free pass"

I wish. Every year we (the Navy) have to go before our oversight committees (the HASC, SASC, HAC-D and SAC-D) and explain how we're doing and what we need to keep doing it. Staffers and Members of Congress do not like to see money being wasted. In fact, we have "zeroed" a few programs including Navy Area Missile Defense and ALAM (Advanced Land Attack Missile) because of lack of performance.

National defense can, in theory, never end and have to constantly be expanded, so it gives those who wish to expand it more and more almost total free reign to just go hogwild with their spending. And nobody's saying we shouldn't spend money on national denfense. Obviously it's important and it requires ungodly amounts of money to stay effective...but it should also be the first place to draw money from if needed since it is so through-the-roof and the biggest drain from our federal budget...

And there's the rub: where do you make the cuts? Again, it's not like ALL the money goes to buying ships, planes, bombs and $500 toilet seats. Everytime a carrier battlegroup deploys, that costs money. Peacekeeping operations cost money. And then you have to pay for active duty and retired personnel, healthcare, training and housing. Finally we spend quite a bit more on R&D than we do on actual weapons procurement.

Part of the problem is also political. Members of Congress who serve on the aforementioned committees want to get reelected. They are not willing to see THEIR programs cut underfunded. That's why a liberal like Rosa DeLauro of CT will fight for full funding of helicopters as hard as someone like John Warner of VA will fight for more shipbuilding.

...but it should also be the first place to draw money from if needed since it is so through-the-roof and the biggest drain from our federal budget...


The biggest drain on the Federal Budget are entitlement programs: welfare, Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security -- the so-called "third rail".

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 4-28-03 @ 6:01 PM

[Katylina]

When talking of failing schools, be sure to take into consideration some factors, such as socioeconomic status and ESL students (English as a Second Language). These factors directly influence the test scores, but they are not recognized by those who produce and grade the tests. When parents are not involved, as most aren't in lower economic areas, it will alter a child's progress. Some students can be socially adept, but considered functionally retarded in the classroom. Parents who don't read breed chidlren who don't read because they do not have the encouragement to do so at home. Children are known to model their elders. There are the lucky few who do break through these barriers because of a great teacher or something of that sort. Teaching and parenting go hand in hand.

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This message was edited by Katylina on 4-28-03 @ 5:59 PM

[travis151]

Great insight Doogie, I have several friends who are also teachers. So many people complain what about our school systems the government doesn't care we need more money. Instead of complaining how the government needs to do more how about get a plan together on how we can fix the school systems first. It takes three parts to make a well balanced student 1. The System( quality teachers , building, and materials, etc.), 2. Parents (It doesn't matter if you work during the day or night make time for you child make sure their doing their homework)3. The Student (Face it you have to want to learn).
Yes, its true schools in Rural enviroments are better supplied then the cities. My nieghbor just moved from the city and can not believe how better the school system out here (Suburb).
The point is if you really want to change the schools are you ready to give up something ...money. Kids might have to wear uniforms, stay longer in schools( teachers will want more money), disipline will have to be enforced since parents can't do it at home. See a few bad apples in schools will force them(the schools) to be tougher on your kids are you willing to take that risk. If you think I'm out of touch just give some exsamples on how you would fix the System.

Red Sox=More Better

[high fly]

This message was edited by high fly on 4-29-03 @ 6:40 PM

[Death Metal Moe]

Did they ever get approval to teach Ebonix as an actual
language? I heard people were trying to get this to happen
but I haven't heard anymore about it in months.


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[silera]

The biggest drain on the Federal Budget are entitlement programs: welfare, Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security -- the so-called "third rail".

2004 Proposed Federal Budget
(In Millions of Dollars)

Defense $390,419 (18%)
Veterans Benefits $62,022 (3%)

Social Security $497,299 (22%)
Medicaid $162,541 (1%)
Education, training, employment,
and social services $85,336 (4%)
Income Security $324,962 (15%)
*Income Security includes retirement and pension benefits for federal employees among others that total 95,635 or 30% of the total.

Social Security and Medicaid shouldn't be considered as part of the waste in our budget because you're supposed to be getting paid through the investments made on your behalf over a lifetime (ie: Social Security/Fica taxes withheld every week). If you do not contribute enough to Social Security, you do not receive it. Social Security and Medicaid are mandatory items on the budge because it is money owed to the recipients. The reason Social Security is running out of funds is that the government mismanaged and dipped into the funds in order to patch budget gaps in the past that were produced by defense spending we couldn't afford in the past.

As for welfare spending, well, I can't really tell from the way the budget is configured. Income security also includes federal pensions in it and training programs and unemployment etc. Education training and social services are all lumped together. If I divide it by three for argument's sake, Education gets 25 billion while defense gets a total of 450 billion.

EDIT: I found a breakdown
Elementary, secondary, and vocational education $32,798
Higher education $15,943
Training and employment $7,732


FUCK IT IT'S GIVING ME A HEADACHE!!!!!

Still fucked up priorities.

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This message was edited by silera on 4-28-03 @ 8:11 PM

[shamus mcfitzy]

It's amazing when Jay Leno takes to the street asking basic American history questions and the people are way off or have no idea what the answers are...


well once when he was doing "jaywalking" in the Pacific Northwest, my friend who was there on vacation so happened to pass by and he said that tons of people were being sorted through to get the 10 stupids out of the 100 or so peopl ethat were stopped. And i've also heard thta they pay some people to act like asses.....so it's not so objective.

someone also said that the stupid kids will one day grow up to run the country, but that's just not true. Ultimately they probably won't even vote. The people running the country will be the smartest (hopefully) 1% of the population. I think it's gonna take a while before urban minorities and stupid trl fans are represented in our government

[A.J.]

Social Security and Medicaid shouldn't be considered as part of the waste in our budget because you're supposed to be getting paid through the investments made on your behalf over a lifetime (ie: Social Security/Fica taxes withheld every week).


I wasn't implying that it was "waste" and my point of using the word "drain" was that I was quoting from Mojo's post.

Yes, we're supposed to be getting paid back what you put into the system. The problem is that we most likely won't see ALL of the money because of various reasons (withdrawing from the fund, more people living longer, drawing from the fund, COLAs, etc.)

If I divide it by three for argument's sake, Education gets 25 billion while defense gets a total of 450 billion.

I agree with your argument. The point of my previous posts was that (1) funding for the Department of Education isn't all going directly to the schools/programs -- it goes for operating the bureacracy and (2) defense spending isn't entirely for buying weapons. Training, housing, providing care for, and retaining our military costs big bucks. Additionally, military dependants are beneficiaries of these monies.

This has to happen at the federal level. Some would argue that education should be dealt with at the state/municipal level.

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[TheMojoPin]

The biggest drain on the Federal Budget are entitlement programs: welfare, Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security -- the so-called "third rail".

Very true. The intentions are good enough, but these are probably the most mismanaged financial areas of our government. I wasn't aware of the numbers, so thanks AJ and Silera, for correcting me.

And I understand that the defense sector isn't free from budget issues...LORD knows I worked for enough government agencies to see that was woefully apparent...it's just at the end of the day the defense sector is more likely to get a hefty economic bump (It's not a blanket "raise") than the education sector...

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[A.J.]

April 29, 2003
Education Cuts Threaten Tax-Funded Football

(2003-04-29) -- Academics around the nation began a wave of protests against belt-tightening in state and federal education budgets, saying the funding cuts would threaten America's most valuable intellectual pursuit -- high school football.

Thousands of government-funded football franchises nationwide could shut down, shattering the dreams of parents who now live vicariously through the athletic accomplishments of their children.

"Every citizen in America has an obligation to maintain tax-funded sports programs," said an unnamed spokesman for the National Education Association. "If high school football is cut, men who would never have otherwise been hired to teach will lose their jobs. These are America's intellectual needy. And they coach teams of boys who often couldn't get into college if it weren't for their gridiron performance."

With tears in his eyes, the NEA spokesman painted a tragic picture of small towns without tax-funded "State Champ" billboards, and forlorn young people who would never again shake government-issue pom-poms and holler, "We got spirit. Yes we do. We got spirit. How 'bout you?"

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[JerryTaker]

Public education doesn't stink in affluent neighborhoods that get to funnel all those funds into their school systems.


Not exactly, I went to a High School in a town where property taxes were, and are still so high, that businesses can't afford to operate there anymore, yet all the money that's supposed to go to education got funnelled into the schools Football team, and a couple of years ago, they wanted to cut <I>all</I> the art and music programs. It was really sickening...

and AJ, I hope that's a joke, because trying to make that a sympathetic case is disgusting.

Then again, I guess I'll probably get the response that only dirty pansy liberals care about art and music...


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[Doogie]

Then again, I guess I'll probably get the response that only dirty pansy liberals care about art and music...

I got your back my friend. And I agree that Art and music are more important and have more of an impact on a childs life than a game does. And I am an avid sports fan, but I also see the forest full of trees.

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[A.J.]

and AJ, I hope that's a joke, because trying to make that a sympathetic case is disgusting.

'Twas. I was just trying to bring a little levity to the thread.

On the other hand, High School Football has produced some great Americans.

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 4-29-03 @ 12:18 PM

[high fly]

Levity, yes, but lessons learned playing sports can be quite valuable--- teamwork, sacrifice, discipline and sportsmanship, to name a few.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

This message was edited by high fly on 4-29-03 @ 6:58 PM

[Gvac]

This is precisely the reason that the school voucher program should exist. The United States government should not have a monopoly on the education system and force everyone to pay for it, no matter how inept it is.

Throwing money at it is NOT the solution, as the majority of funds end up going to things other than actual educational material.

As long as the Teacher's Union is more concerned with tenure and not being forced to prove their worthiness, our public school systems will never improve, no matter how many billions are allocated for "education."

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[travis151]

Gvac only thing I got to say is your right in the money! Its funny how we keep on saying things about medicare / social sercurity/ over spending but nobody gives any solutions or ideas what we need to do come on give some ideas how would you fix the "SYSTEM".

Red Sox=More Better

This message was edited by travis151 on 4-30-03 @ 6:18 PM

[HBox]

Let me ask you something. How is taking money away from the schools gonna help the education system? Not everybody can afford private school even with vouchers. So what about the kids in public schools. Fuck em?

[Doogie]

So what about the kids in public schools. Fuck em?

Your local pedophile will...just look for the lurkers inthe bushes

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