This only proves that the US is now a nazi state.

[GrimSanity]

[quote]Mr. Anderson, so nice 2 C U...Here's Agent Smith in real life.

Jason Halperin, AlterNet
April 28, 2003
Viewed on April 29, 2003
Two weeks ago I experienced a very small taste of what hundreds of South
Asian immigrants and U.S. citizens of South Asian descent have gone
through since 9/11, and what thousands of others have come to fear. I
was held, against my will and without warrant or cause, under the USA
PATRIOT Act. While I understand the need for some measure of security
and precaution in times such as these, the manner in which this
detention and interrogation took place raises serious questions about
police tactics and the safeguarding of civil liberties in times of war.
That night, March 20th, my roommate Asher and I were on our way to see
the Broadway show "Rent." We had an hour to spare before curtain time so
we stopped into an Indian restaurant just off of Times Square in the
heart of midtown. I have omitted the name of the restaurant so as not to
subject the owners to any further harassment or humiliation.
We helped ourselves to the buffet and then sat down to begin eating our
dinner. I was just about to tell Asher how I'd eaten there before and
how delicious the vegetable curry was, but I never got a chance. All of
a sudden, there was a terrible commotion and five NYPD in bulletproof
vests stormed down the stairs. They had their guns drawn and were
pointing them indiscriminately at the restaurant staff and at us.
"Go to the back, go to the back of the restaurant," they yelled.
I hesitated, lost in my own panic.
"Did you not hear me, go to the back and sit down," they demanded.
I complied and looked around at the other patrons. There were eight men
including the waiter, all of South Asian descent and ranging in age from
late-teens to senior citizen. One of the policemen pointed his gun
point-blank in the face of the waiter and shouted: "Is there anyone else
in the restaurant?" The waiter, terrified, gestured to the kitchen.
The police placed their fingers on the triggers of their guns and kicked
open the kitchen doors. Shouts emanated from the kitchen and a few
seconds later five Hispanic men were made to crawl out on their hands
and knees, guns pointed at them.
After patting us all down, the five officers seated us at two tables. As
they continued to kick open doors to closets and bathrooms with their
fingers glued to their triggers, no less than ten officers in suits
emerged from the stairwell. Most of them sat in the back of the
restaurant typing on their laptop computers. Two of them walked over to
our table and identified themselves as officers of the INS and Homeland
Security Department.
I explained that we were just eating dinner and asked why we were being
held. We were told by the INS agent that we would be released once they
had confirmation that we had no outstanding warrants and our immigration
status was OK'd.
In pre-9/11 America, the legality of this would have been questionable.
After all, the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution states: "The right
of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects,
against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and
no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and
the persons or things to be seized."
"You have no right to hold us," Asher insisted.
"Yes, we have every right," responded one of the agents. "You are being
held under the Patriot Act following suspicion under an internal
Homeland Security investigation."
The USA PATRIOT Act was passed into law on October 26, 2001 in order to
facilitate the post 9/11 crackdown on terrorism (the name is actually an
acronym: "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate
Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act.") Like most
Americans, I did not recognize the extent to which this bill foregoes
our civil liberties. Among the unprecedented rights it grants to the
federal government ar

[high fly]

It would be nice to have a tally of the votes for and against the [snicker] "Patriot" Act.
While this does not prove that we are a nazi state, if indeed the story is true, it shows how the Republicans have reduced our liberty.
It is these liberties that make us great.
The [snicker] "Patriot" Act makes us less so.
There will be more cases like this.
Remember them when you vote.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[reeshy]

I'm not saying that this incident didn't take place but where did this article come from? I mean, nowadays, anyone can post and write whatever they want on the internet. How come this was not reported largely by our "objective"media. I want to know!!!

<IMG SRC=http://mrisoli.8m.com/johncazale.JPG>

[furie]

here are the problems i have with this:

In pre-9/11 America, the legality of this would have been questionable.


No. INS has had the right to raid and detain aliens or suspected aliens, with no time limit, since the Immigration Reform Act of 1996.

"You have no right to hold us," Asher insisted.
"Yes, we have every right," responded one of the agents. "You are being held under the Patriot Act following suspicion under an internal Homeland Security investigation."


An INS agent would not talk like this. I was one. I've done this.

As I quickly discovered, the right to
an attorney has been seemingly fudged as well.
When I asked to speak to a lawyer, the INS official informed me that I
do have the right to a lawyer but I would have to be brought down to the
station and await security clearance before being granted one.


If INS is involved then these people are suspected illegal aliens. illegal aliens do not now, nor do they have the right to speak with a lawyer. lawyers only come into it during certain deportation proceedings. these people are being detained, so they're long before a deportation hearing. hell, they still haven't verified their status. and an INS agent wouldn't get bogged down in conversation. question, wait for responce, next question.

clearnce from whom?

When I
asked how long that would take, he replied with a coy smile: "Maybe a
day, maybe a week, maybe a month."


now that sounds right.

This reads like a bad script for NBC Monday night mysteries.

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>

[NascarFanNJ]

In my opion Racial Profiling is a good idea. Before I am labeled a racist please allow me to continue. Men of Arabian decent caused 9-11 not white,black,yellow,or green. I have nothing to fear from my government beacuse I am a law abiding citizen. I want people listening to cell phones and watching internet traffic. I want Arabs pulled out of line at mass transit hubs. I need to feel safe.

I have been promised by the Constitution Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. I have life I have Liberty and as far as Happiness well I am married so that is shot. I do not have the right to harm other people or destroy property. The Constitution also ensures my right to free speech. In that right it does not say anywhere that I am not accountable for what I say.

I think America is in trouble, we cater to the minority and special interest groups and the silent working class majority goes unheard but most punished. Where did we go wrong? When did the American Flag become offensive? Did I miss a meeting or something? I am sick and tired of people crying about things they 1)Have no clue what they are saying and 2) Have no idea the consequences of what they are saying.

Americans need to unite and do somehing. Don't like a political party vote for another one. Don't like Government spending, contact your lawmaker. Don't piss and whine and stand by idle as America falls deeper in to turmoil.


You want courage? I'll show you courage you can't understand FDNY/9-11-01
343 Brotherhood

[TheMojoPin]

I have been promised by the Constitution Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

What about, say, Arabs born in America as American citizens?

And that article was just wonky...I kept waiting for "Hack" to pull up in the getaway car or something...

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

"Cheese it, it's the cops!

" and they ask me why I drink"

[GrimSanity]

you think the Government cares about your Life Liberty and pursuit of Happiness. no they care about there Life,Liberty and pursuit of Happiness. as long as they make money and can keep people afraid they can do what ever they want can call it what ever they like

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/grimsanity3.gif>

Real serial killers carry an ax watching there heads drip like candle wax and your labled just another victim.

[ToddEVF]

Grim, i must say i do know who sent that to you and i'm surprised i didn't recieve it as well.

However, this seems like it can and cannot be true. It doesn't make a terrorist out of you, or make you unamerican.

So people, give Grim a break. Don't treat him as a criminal just because he posted something that maybe true.

As for why it wasn't in any of the media, because the government monitors that shit. they pull whatever will make the government look bad. People in this country are blind to all the shit that goes on behind the scenes in the government. They tell us anything that will make us look good. its almost like Nazi Germany, and i'm being serious. not in the sense of killing off one ethnicity, but in the way things go.

The US doesn't mention some of the shit that would make this country look bad, like George Washington's love of murder, Christopher Columbus's torturous tendincies, and "Honest" Abe Lincoln's Bi-polar episodes.

So people don't take everything you hear from the media as the truth, sit abck and look at the shit going on don't just take someone word for it

<font size=2 color=333366>
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<marquee>hes really the betstst - AngelAmy/todds the man - canofsoup15/todd is the shiznit! - Contra/Toddevf just rocks that much he gets two appriciation threads, but whatever - DCReed/dint mean to come down on him earlier. . . I like Todd - Doogie76/And he supports my nicotine-fits - DynamiteK/But it's great to see the end result with Todd!! - Gaia/How can I be the man if he's the man?!? - FlavorSaver/Todd Rocks and has a HUGE cock. . . so I heard!!!! - Green Lantern/i can actually say that i love the little fuck - GrlNiN/This must be done WITH GERMAN EFFICIANCY! - GrimSanity/Todd Will always be a DARLING! - LatinSpiceXoX/your the bestest, greatest, coolest todd! - Lulu/TODD EVF RULZ THE SCHOOL - NJDMMoe/I like Toddevf. He seems like a fine young gentleman. - pinkyfloyd/I appreciate my Mini-Me! - RonFez Mark/I like the sleezy way Todd puts a watermark in their. Kudos! - SateliteCam/So screw all the Todd-haters! - Shorty/I admire todd's ability to slyly and skillfully turn any and every thread into one about HIM - TheMojoPin</marquee>
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<a href=http://www.lostsanity.net/cgistor/yabb/yabb.pl> Lost Sanity Forum </a href>

[furie]

you think the Government cares about your Life Liberty and pursuit of Happiness.


I'm assuming that was meant to be a question not a statement. yes i do think they care about our happiness. because happy people don't revolt, keep them in office, and are too distracted by their pursuit of happiness to notice the government's indiscretions. so it's in the governments best interest to keep us happy.

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>



This message was edited by furie on 4-30-03 @ 11:05 AM

[DJEvelEd]

I would have less of a problem with the police state that we now live in, if they legalized marijuana. Too many pot smokers are going to be caught up in this kind of stuff and pretty soon half the country will be in jail and the other half will be cops and the 3rd half will be lawyers.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Big bird is Ferrall's bitch
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[GrimSanity]

here is another one. this sounds alot like the way the country is going.

"Why of course the people don't want war. ... That is understood. But
after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and
it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell
them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any
country."
Who said that?
Hitler's accomplice, Hermann Goering (commander of the German Air Force
and president of the Reichstag), at the Nuremberg trials of Nazi war
criminals in 1946.


<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/grimsanity3.gif>

Real serial killers carry an ax watching there heads drip like candle wax and your labled just another victim.

[reeshy]

Quote:
"Why of course the people don't want war. ... That is understood. But
after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and
it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell
them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any
country."
Who said that?
Hitler's accomplice, Hermann Goering (commander of the German Air Force
and president of the Reichstag), at the Nuremberg trials of Nazi war
criminals in 1946.


Tell me something that I don't already know. Every and I mean every, government on God's green earth does this. This is called staying in power. It's up to the individual to ascertain the truth and to pursue it to the best of his ability. I know that our government has been involved in underhanded activities over the years but it is still the best country in the world. Try posting this in some third world countries and just sit back and wait for your door to bust open.
Thank you!!!

<IMG SRC=http://mrisoli.8m.com/johncazale.JPG>

[Death Metal Moe]

I'll break my boycott for a rare post started by Grim Sanity!

Of course we'd be upset if we were held for no good reason, but it is a different world now. On the flip side, maybe this guy should have felt safer knowing that we can nab illegals so quickly. There's a fine line between losing our freedoms and a slight inconvenience.

And also, don't do illegal shit or dodge the law and you have no worries.

Except for Pot. In my personal opinion, there's nothing wrong with it.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<font size=2 color=333366>
<marquee behavior=alternate scrolldelay=30>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!!!</marquee>
</font>

666%

[Bergalad]

Anyone could have written this, and there is no basis to even begin to assume it's factual in any way. This is certainly not a "nazi state" as you so easily condemn it to be. Find a better way to channel your impotent rage, not at the government that is trying to protect you. Oh, and Democrats voted for the Patriot Act as well, so don't go around screaming at the Republicans for it.

[GrimSanity]

i'm not saying it's anyones fault or who to blame. i think people should look more into things and not take the goverment at face value. the goverment doesn't protect anyone but itself and it's money makers.

<IMG SRC=http://members.aol.com/vikorynotvengnce/images/grimsanity3.gif>

Real serial killers carry an ax watching there heads drip like candle wax and your labled just another victim.

[ToddEVF]

Find a better way to channel your impotent rage, not at the government that is trying to protect you.

if withholding the truth to keep the general public from knowing it, is trying to protect us then thats retarted. . . and queer

<font size=2 color=333366>
<marquee behavior=alternate scrolldelay=30>I've been Tromatized!</marquee>
</font><img src=http://members.aol.com/TheToddsterLSP/sigpics/thetoddster.gif>
<marquee>hes really the betstst - AngelAmy/todds the man - canofsoup15/todd is the shiznit! - Contra/Toddevf just rocks that much he gets two appriciation threads, but whatever - DCReed/dint mean to come down on him earlier. . . I like Todd - Doogie76/And he supports my nicotine-fits - DynamiteK/But it's great to see the end result with Todd!! - Gaia/How can I be the man if he's the man?!? - FlavorSaver/Todd Rocks and has a HUGE cock. . . so I heard!!!! - Green Lantern/i can actually say that i love the little fuck - GrlNiN/This must be done WITH GERMAN EFFICIANCY! - GrimSanity/Todd Will always be a DARLING! - LatinSpiceXoX/your the bestest, greatest, coolest todd! - Lulu/TODD EVF RULZ THE SCHOOL - NJDMMoe/I like Toddevf. He seems like a fine young gentleman. - pinkyfloyd/I appreciate my Mini-Me! - RonFez Mark/I like the sleezy way Todd puts a watermark in their. Kudos! - SateliteCam/So screw all the Todd-haters! - Shorty/I admire todd's ability to slyly and skillfully turn any and every thread into one about HIM - TheMojoPin</marquee>
<a href=http://www.showchoir.com/~justinc79/troma/terror_media/toddster.wav> The Toddster!!! (sound clip) </a href>
<a href=http://www.lostsanity.net/cgistor/yabb/yabb.pl> Lost Sanity Forum </a href>

[silera]

There's a fine line between losing our freedoms and a slight inconvenience.

And also, don't do illegal shit or dodge the law and you have no worries.

Except for Pot. In my personal opinion, there's nothing wrong with it.

I was arrested and in jail for 12 hrs this week.

It all boiled down to a license suspended because someone at the DMV failed to update my insurance.

I was handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshots were taken, I didn't eat or piss for 12 hrs.

It was far more than a slight inconvenience, it was the most humiliating and angering experience of my life.

If I were to extend that for a period of a week or month or longer, without being able to speak to anyone, or notify a family member, I think that I'd likely kill myself.


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[Geppetto]

I try my best to stay out of political discutions but I do want to add a bit here, and I know its been said before but bear with me.

First all goverments have done and continue to do some pretty low and underhanded shit. You look back far enough in countrys history and you will find something, slavery, genocide, oppression, in the name of conquest or religon has been going on since the begining. I'm not saying its OK just that its always been there. You think you had more rights a few years ago? You had shit. A cop wants to search you bad enough and anything counts as probabal cause( forgive my spelling). They kick your ass, you were resisting aresset. I'm just saying don't kid yourself its always been there its just out in the open now.

My other thought is this. Not everything is like Nazi Germany if it were Grim would be dead by morning for starting this thred.

<IMG SRC =http://www.blakjeezis.homestead.com/files/geppetto.gif>

[East Side Dave]

-I just did the Toddster sound clip again-

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/ESD.gif>
Big Ass Mafia

[LiquidCourage]

What's he talking about, South Asians?

Since when were Orientals being harassed?


Shouldn't it say "People of Middle Eastern descent?"

[HBox]

Look, regardless of the outcome of the next election, can we just all agree that this country would be better of without Ashcroft?

[TooCute]

And also, don't do illegal shit or dodge the law and you have no worries.


Or, if the story is true, eat in restaurants or look anything other than caucasian. Easy enough for caucasians to say.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=FBF2F7>

[TheMojoPin]

Oh, and Democrats voted for the Patriot Act as well, so don't go around screaming at the Republicans for it.

Wow, Berg's actually shooting for Nixon-level paranoia now...nice...

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[FUNKMAN]

it's a tough situation for both sides, the people of law enforcement and the citizen...

the ultimate blame should be directed towards the people who have created the situation, the people who committed terrorist acts, the people who break the law...

you have to weigh the good and the bad... if the bad becomes too much, attempt to make it better... if that don't work you have every right to live elsewhere...

Would just hate to lose a couple of fine ladies like TooCute and Silera...

<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">



This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 4-30-03 @ 1:30 AM

[FiveB247]

A nazi state.... yeah that's what it proves.....

I never quite understand how people associate 'nazi state' with any other nation or state. It doesn't compare with any other as a whole. Some aspects may be close or similar in some cases...but certainly no where near exact. The Nazi's where the first government to openly sponsor a policy of genocide and help carry it out.

The US is attempting to buckle down on various privacy rights, human rights as well as individual citizens and aliens rights in order to try and prevent terrorist operations and such. There is obviously a huge grey area where freedoms end and control begins....but it is becoming a bit frightning. Like most things in life, decisions and actions work from the top down and the common citizen is the paying for it; whether it's taxes or loss of freedoms.

[Huganut]

As for why it wasn't in any of the media, because the government monitors that shit. they pull whatever will make the government look bad. People in this country are blind to all the shit that goes on behind the scenes in the government. They tell us anything that will make us look good. its almost like Nazi Germany, and i'm being serious. not in the sense of killing off one ethnicity, but in the way things go.

The US doesn't mention some of the shit that would make this country look bad, like George Washington's love of murder, Christopher Columbus's torturous tendincies, and "Honest" Abe Lincoln's Bi-polar episodes.


You know, if this were 10 - 12 years ago, and this were posted around the time of the Oklahoma City bombing, Waco, Ruby Ridge, and all of the other clarion calls for the extreme right wing, there would be immediate accusations of paranoia by people on the left. I find it odd that the paranoiac left (not all of us who are liberal are paranoid mind you) aren't seeing black helicopters everywhere yet. Some folks just find an excuse to fall for every conspiracy theory they can, I guess. Does the government cover things up? Yeah, sure they do, but not nearly to the extent that some people believe, I'm willing to bet. If I'm proven wrong, I'll gladly have egg on my face when we're at the "education camp" together.

As for the US not mentioning things like Lincoln's Bi-polar Disorder, and the like, I wasn't aware that there was a Cabinet level Department of History. It's governments place to make history, not record or document it.

[furie]

I was arrested and in jail for 12 hrs this week.


anyone else find that hot?

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>

[Se7en]

GodDAMN there ARE a lot of chicken littles on this board.

Don't answer that knock at your door! It's the secret CIA death squad coming to take you away for having a different opinion!

There is so much wrong with Grim's post I don't even know where to begin.

First off, wasn't there some sort of moratorium put on posting full articles?

And also, where are the sources on this one? I saw DarkHippie griping the other day because one of us conservatives posted info without a source attached to it. Did this come from an actual LEGITIMATE news source, or are these "articles" just the ramblings of some yahoo on his web journal? Maybe Grim should have attached "AP" to his post to give that extra bit of credibility.

So people, give Grim a break. Don't treat him as a criminal just because he posted something that maybe true.

I won't, I'll just treat him and you and people like high fly as morons for being gullible and stupid enough to believe that the Big Evil Repulbicans are coming along to take away all of your freedoms and turn this nation into a fascist state.

That's not to say that Ashcroft isn't an ass, but if you're big enough of a conspiracy theorist to believe that there's some big conspiracy out there amongst Repubs to fuck over everyone without lily white skin, than I must seriously question whether you're actually retarded.

As for why it wasn't in any of the media, because the government monitors that shit. they pull whatever will make the government look bad.

REALLY? Well, someone tell the government that they're missing the New York Times op-ed page. About every day of the week.

This is more conspiracy theory bullshit.

People in this country are blind to all the shit that goes on behind the scenes in the government. They tell us anything that will make us look good. its almost like Nazi Germany, and i'm being serious. not in the sense of killing off one ethnicity, but in the way things go.

Your analogies are utterly ridiculous.

When the majority of the newspapers in the country become pro-government propaganda, then come to me with this shit. What, have you been listening to LaRouche lately or something?

The US doesn't mention some of the shit that would make this country look bad, like George Washington's love of murder, Christopher Columbus's torturous tendincies, and "Honest" Abe Lincoln's Bi-polar episodes.

I've never seen hard evidence to support any of the above allegations, so I must doubt their veracity.

But even so, I have to ask - what the fuck does it matter? Do I really give a shit about whether Lincoln was bipolar? Ultimately, did it negatively effect his ability as President?

So people don't take everything you hear from the media as the truth, sit abck and look at the shit going on don't just take someone word for it

I don't think I know anyone of reasonable intelligence who just sits back and willingly believes every piece of information that is spoon fed to them by the media. Hell, aside from all of your "the government is secretly controlling what we see, hear and think" rhetoric, there's enough plain old political bias in the media alone that most people question what they are told. Goddamn, just look at all of the posts bitching about the objectivity or lack of it of the news channels in this folder alone!

Quote:
I was arrested and in jail for 12 hrs this week.




anyone else find that hot?

Only if they gave her the plunger treatment.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"By the laws of this very government - whether they want to accept it or not - every American is complicit in the darkness that this country spreads across the rest of the world - simply by paying taxes." -- Inali Redpath
"That's terrorist double-talk and I, for one, am SICK of listening to it." -- Captain America

"We have become too civilised to grasp the obvious. For the truth is

[furie]

Christopher Columbus's torturous tendincies


Columbus wasn't American and never set foot on any soil now claimed by America. So why are we saddled with his sins?

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>

[TheMojoPin]

like George Washington's love of murder

Y'know, you really don't see a good ol'-fashioned LOVE of murder these days...

What th-?!?

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Captain Stubing]

I can't substantially add to it.
I can't top it.
I can't agree with it more.

What is it?

What se7en said.

That is all.

Fezaesthesia - Prognosis poor...

[DarkHippie]

And also, where are the sources on this one? I saw DarkHippie griping the other day because one of us conservatives posted info without a source attached to it. Did this come from an actual LEGITIMATE news source, or are these "articles" just the ramblings of some yahoo on his web journal? Maybe Grim should have attached "AP" to his post to give that extra bit of credibility.
It came from Alternet.orghttp://www.alternet.org they are moderately credible in that's its mostly opinion pieces rather than fact pieces so I don't post from there. Still, it's conceivable that this took place.

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This message was edited by DarkHippie on 4-30-03 @ 1:19 PM

[A.J.]

"Your papers are not in order."



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A Skidmark production.

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[Bergalad]

High Fly:
It would be nice to have a tally of the votes for and against the [snicker] "Patriot" Act...it shows how the Republicans have reduced our liberty...It is these liberties that make us great.The [snicker] "Patriot" Act makes us less so...Remember them when you vote.
Me:
Democrats voted for the Patriot Act as well, so don't go around screaming at the Republicans for it.
Mojo:
Wow, Berg's actually shooting for Nixon-level paranoia now...nice...
I was responding to the accusation that the Republicans are to "blame" for the Patriot Act. It's not paranoia at all. I'm saying don't blast one side when the other is just as culpable.

[furie]

Easy Bergalad! Don't make too much sense all at once! Baby steps to making sense.

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>

[Bestinshow]

I was arrested and in jail for 12 hrs this week.

I was handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshots were taken, I didn't eat or piss for 12 hrs.

Its all in how you look at it. Bondage can be quite expensive.

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/xxbis.gif?mtbrand=aol_us>

[TheMojoPin]

I was responding to the accusation that the Republicans are to "blame" for the Patriot Act. It's not paranoia at all. I'm saying don't blast one side when the other is just as culpable.

Yeah, good thing you put a stop to all the "screaming".

I'm beginning to wonder if you and FiveB aren't the same person...

CALL THE PLUMBERS, DAMMIT.

"PLUG IT UP!"

"PLUG IT UP!"

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-30-03 @ 3:07 PM

[Bigden]

I wish that it wasn't this way in America today, but I don't see how all this security can be avoided. I feel for the individual involved, but I would have just followed the NYPD's orders. They are just trying to do their jobs to protect us all.
BTW don't be so ridiculously naive the PD had a lead and it is standard protocal to enter a building guns drawn. How soon everybody forgets that terrorists are pretty nasty people. The guy wasn't hurt, and I am sure the other people were not either. Loose the paranoia and grow up, if this was a Nazi state you would never have been heard from again. Think of those pictures of saddam's graveyards outside the prisons. Gives you a little perspective.

[travis151]

Hold on how do we know this isn't made up? Give me a break Alternet what a f'ing joke. How about we as a board try to stay away from so much "SPECULATION". Yes , I have taken part in it claiming we found WMD. I mean check your sources this story and anybody who believes this or that website are just ridiculous.

Red Sox=More Better

[silera]

Only if they gave her the plunger treatment.

Is that supposed to be funny or insulting?

I'm having an offnight and can't really tell.


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[Bergalad]

I'm beginning to wonder if you and FiveB aren't the same person...
You wound me, sir.

[Se7en]

Is that supposed to be funny or insulting?

I'm having an offnight and can't really tell.


Take your pick.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"By the laws of this very government - whether they want to accept it or not - every American is complicit in the darkness that this country spreads across the rest of the world - simply by paying taxes." -- Inali Redpath
"That's terrorist double-talk and I, for one, am SICK of listening to it." -- Captain America

"We have become too civilised to grasp the obvious. For the truth is very simple. To survive you often have to fight, and to fight you have to dirty yourself. War is evil, and it is often the lesser evil."
---George Orwell

[FiveB247]

Berg...it's almost 10 PM...shouldn't you be getting ready to whack your bag while thinking about George Bush and stairing at the flag?

8====>

[Bergalad]

Masterbating to the Flag? Five, would that the same Flag that is draped over the returning coffins of my fellow soldiers?


This message was edited by Bergalad on 4-30-03 @ 10:59 PM

[silera]

Take your pick.

I'm figuring it was more of an attempt to insult than to amuse. In that case, way to want physical harm to someone because you disagree with their opinions.

I held you in better esteem.


<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

This message was edited by silera on 4-30-03 @ 10:39 PM

[FiveB247]

Masterbating to the Flag? Five, would that the same Flag that is draped over the returning coffins of my fellow soldiers?

Yeah....oddly enough it's the same one made in China or Taiwan.

Btw...you're mention of the soliders is ridiculous. We probably had more friendly fire casualties then any enemy kills.

[Death Metal Moe]

Is there something wrong with respecting the flag now?

Have people on the Left abandoned our flag too? Jesus. Gimmie a fucking break.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
<font size=2 color=333366>
<marquee behavior=alternate scrolldelay=30>DEATH FACTION 4 LIFE!!!</marquee>
</font>

666%

[spoon]

I don't think I know anyone of reasonable intelligence who just sits back and willingly believes every piece of information that is spoon fed to them by the media.

Not true, I (spoon) feed many media pieces that the likes of Mojo and Death Metal Moe willingly believe on a daily basis. And both have at least come close to reasonably intelligent

<img src="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/spoon2.jpg">
Nothing...i have nothing!

[spoon]

Huganut and Seven made many of my points on this thread. However, are we naive enough to think some government officials won't try to capitalize in this era, or a few police or INS agents get a little overboard aggressive with some innocents. The bottom line is that these events occur very infrequently, and usually do get out in the media bc these items sell and attract viewing.

The Nazi tag is plain stupid and childish. Those who use it in this fashion should catch up on there history, for even if they were detained for an hour in NYC in order to check visas and for warrants, where is the comparison? Just a few decades back, we opened detainment camps for Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor. This after an attack from another country, not even an internal terrorist attack. By these comparisons, it looks like some progress has been made. And I doubt that the INS/police/FBI would waste man-power, time, and finances randomly invading Indian eateries. If this did occur, they had a pretty good lead that just didn't come through or their timing was off.
Am I also to assume you believe these agents/police should have entered without any concern for themselves with a possible lead? Keep their guns in the car bc it offends you at home? Well these agents and police are our parents, kids and relatives. Our neighbors doing what they can to not allow for another 9/11 in this country at a time of high alert.

Finally, those who are currently detained were caught in the US with either weapons, incriminating ties, and were here illegally. I doubt very much we are holding these people for shits and giggles, genocide, or any other reasons than national security and further investigations.

...shouldn't you be getting ready to whack your bag while thinking about George Bush and stairing at the flag?
Living in the US allows you to say/post this garbage. It also allows me to truly wish I could meet and kick the living shit out of you personally. Some of us have lost loved ones in this war, even if you don't believe in it or ultimately the United States. I don't agree with many of Bush's policy, but have we lost respect for the office of our leader and the best country that has ever been? There has been a major loss of tact and respect in this country, I hope this doesn't persist.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/spoon2.jpg">
Nothing...i have nothing!

[FiveB247]

Moe...It was merely a joke. Berg said something towards me, so I replied with an absurd comment in which it would piss him off...ie the flag. A piece of cloth. Does anyone get bothered if I burned a shirt with an american flag on it? perhaps a tie? Or does it have to be the actaul flag...just wondering or attempting to poke fun at such serious matters.

[TheMojoPin]

You wound me, sir.

I don't know, it's just this odd feeling I get when I see the two of you square off...

For some reason I'm reminded of that first fight with Tyler in the parking lot...

But I shall play devil's advocate...Five, seriously, there's a board outside of this forum. Take a break, take a breath and calm thyself. You're going to pop. Each post just keeps sounding more and more the same...

<img src=http://www.serve.com/scmc/jpg/dig1.jpg>

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[reeshy]

It also allows me to truly wish I could meet and kick the living shit out of you personally.


Although I abhor physical violence (Who-Me?) this simple little quote has elevated Spoon even higher in my eyes than he was before-Bravo, my Brave Champion- keep fighting the good fight!!!

<IMG SRC=http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/virtual/portrait/lenin.jpg>

[Bergalad]

Btw...you're mention of the soliders is ridiculous. We probably had more friendly fire casualties then any enemy kills.
Either you don't comprehend what I was trying to get across to you or you just don't give a damn about these soldiers. I am thinking it's both now. It's not how they died in Iraq, it's that they died, in their minds at least, defending that symbol of freedom that adorns their caskets. Your callous and chilling lack of even basic respect and admiration for those men and women speak volumes about you.
Berg said something towards me, so I replied with an absurd comment in which it would piss him off
My denial of being you to Mojo equates to what you said? Perspective, please.
ie the flag. A piece of cloth.
We've gone over this, and you of course know it's more than that to me, just like it is to any other servicemeber. You could have chosen to respect that and stopped after the Bush comment.
just wondering or attempting to poke fun at such serious matters.
What serious matters, Five? Mojo's comment that you and I are the same person? How bi-polar would I have to be for that to be true? Oh, and now I would also have to be a disrespectful, unrepentant ass to boot. Nah, that's not me. Think about what you've said here Five.

[FiveB247]

It also allows me to truly wish I could meet and kick the living shit out of you personally. Some of us have lost loved ones in this war, even if you don't believe in it or ultimately the United States.

First off, you will do nothing of the sorts...don't be silly. Secondly, I never disrepected any soldier in this post nor in any other. I mentioned the flag as a joke to bust Bergalad's balls after he made a comment in my direction. (If you read my post directly after I orginally post such 'awful tact', I mentioned it was that...a joke!). If you can't handle that, either don't read it or don't pay mind to it. Otherwise I could pretty much care less what you have to say towards me.

Bergalad..this is what you replied "You wound me, sir.". Meaning it was an insult to call you, me. How is that not derogatory? It is a chop at me.

We've gone over this, and you of course know it's more than that to me, just like it is to any other servicemeber. You could have chosen to respect that and stopped after the Bush comment.

Which is exactly why I said what I did...as a joke to piss you off. Get it now?

Mojo...you post as you like, where you like and I will do the same.

[furie]

hey, remember when we used to talk about the merits or lack there of, of this article instead of attacking eachothers political views just like we do every time in the forum?

yeah, good times.....

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>

[Se7en]

I'm figuring it was more of an attempt to insult than to amuse.

Maybe, but you don't know how warped my sense of humor is.

In that case, way to want physical harm to someone because you disagree with their opinions.

I held you in better esteem.

Well, that was your mistake.

I'm just joking, of course.

Golly, no one finds humor in forcible sodomy anymore. Who should I blame for this? Political correctness? Good taste?

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"By the laws of this very government - whether they want to accept it or not - every American is complicit in the darkness that this country spreads across the rest of the world - simply by paying taxes." -- Inali Redpath
"That's terrorist double-talk and I, for one, am SICK of listening to it." -- Captain America

"We have become too civilised to grasp the obvious. For the truth is very simple. To survive you often have to fight, and to fight you have to dirty yourself. War is evil, and it is often the lesser evil."
---George Orwell

[spoon]

Otherwise I could pretty much care less what you have to say towards me.
I'm not here to start a meaningless board fight of posts, but simply to voice my disdain for your recent post. If anyone believes we should never get upset by words, even if they are as absurd as those, you sir have no character. It's not attacking your politics, it's attacking your way about them. I have many concerns and problems with current political policy in this nation, yet would never result to tactics such as idiotic jokes one is sure to be rightfully offended by. Those without any respect, shall garner none themselves. As for disagreement, I have no problem with it, as it is truly healthy and keeps the country balanced. However, there is a concept of right and wrong that can't be denied.

Remember, a man without enemies is a man without character. I can't remember who said this, yet it is nothing but the truth.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/spoon2.jpg">
Nothing...i have nothing!

[silera]

I'm just joking, of course.

Well, you could have just said that the first time.

Now instead of having a large ass to look at, I simply am a large ass.

Speaking of ass, I treat mine with great care and the thought of having to tweeze out splinters from it seems not only unappealing but quite a daunting task to undertake.



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[Yerdaddy]

the thought of having to tweeze out splinters from it
So you're saying I got a shot!? Woohoo!

<IMG SRC="http://czm.racknine.net/images/yersig.gif">
CZM productions

FREE YERBOOBIES!

[FiveB247]

I'm not here to start a meaningless board fight of posts, but simply to voice my disdain for your recent post. If anyone believes we should never get upset by words, even if they are as absurd as those, you sir have no character. It's not attacking your politics, it's attacking your way about them. I have many concerns and problems with current political policy in this nation, yet would never result to tactics such as idiotic jokes one is sure to be rightfully offended by. Those without any respect, shall garner none themselves. As for disagreement, I have no problem with it, as it is truly healthy and keeps the country balanced. However, there is a concept of right and wrong that can't be denied.

Remember, a man without enemies is a man without character. I can't remember who said this, yet it is nothing but the truth.

I don't know about you or anyone else...but as for myself...I don't look or attempt gain respect via a message board. And if you're going to make some sort of ridiculous threat towards me and expect me to be cordial towards you in return it's silly on your behalf.

http://adbusters.org/campaigns/flag/photos/13.jpg

Anyways...to get back onto topic....

http://adbusters.org/creativeresistance/spoofads/fashion/gap/ad.jpg

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 5-1-03 @ 10:36 PM

[Se7en]

Well, you could have just said that the first time.

Now instead of having a large ass to look at, I simply am a large ass.

Speaking of ass, I treat mine with great care and the thought of having to tweeze out splinters from it seems not only unappealing but quite a daunting task to undertake.

I can't imagine you having a large ass.

Even if you are a beautiful Latin princess. ;)

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"By the laws of this very government - whether they want to accept it or not - every American is complicit in the darkness that this country spreads across the rest of the world - simply by paying taxes." -- Inali Redpath
"That's terrorist double-talk and I, for one, am SICK of listening to it." -- Captain America

"We have become too civilised to grasp the obvious. For the truth is very simple. To survive you often have to fight, and to fight you have to dirty yourself. War is evil, and it is often the lesser evil."
---George Orwell

[high fly]

Silera's ass is superb, bordering on spectacular and is beyond reproach.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[TooCute]

Just to give an alternate perspective on the "nazi state" thing... last Wednesday when I flew out of LGA to Nashville, I picked up my e-ticket at the self-serve machine by swiping my credit card. It gave me a boarding pass, which I showed to the security person at the metal detector to get to the gate. I showed it again to get onto the plane. Never ONCE did anyone ask to see my ID.
Good job, TSA!

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=FBF2F7>

[A.J.]

... last Wednesday when I flew out of LGA to Nashville, I picked up my e-ticket at the self-serve machine by swiping my credit card. It gave me a boarding pass, which I showed to the security person at the metal detector to get to the gate. I showed it again to get onto the plane. Never ONCE did anyone ask to see my ID.

Same thing happened (or didn't happen) to me when I flew from New Orleans to Reagan National last month.

<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

http://www.internerd.com/frink.retired/frinkv.2/stuff/littlepc.gif

[Bergalad]

I flew out of Newark Sunday and they asked for my ID at the ticket counter, the x-ray screener, and at the gate. Guess Newark is doing what they are supposed to at least.

[FiveB247]

Since 9-11 occured you'd assume secuirty would be tighter and have improved a bit by now. But you'd be incorrect to think that. In fact, the more money we have thrown into the airlines and airport secuirty...the more holes and problems are shown. It's sad. The gov't bailed out the airlines and they haven't recovered and I believe various security employees are being laid off due to budget problems.

On a personal note, my 87 yr old grandmother got patted down, ID checked, shoes taken off, etc...yet people who looked suspicious were breazing by to board. I'm all for security as well as personal rights, but there should be some sort of reasoning behind such methods. Racial profiling may or may not be the answer, but everyone should be willing to give up some security precausions for the sake of their own safety while traveling. It simply comes down to the fact the US can't check everyone cause it's not even thought as conveignent.

In my opinion, they should raise the price of traveling, use it to beef up security measure to check everyone as well as cut down on the number of flights to make it possible for security to do their job. That really is the only way you'll truly be safe. Otherwise it's still hit and miss. You can arrest some suspcious man from the Middle East...but can you remove a regular citizen who's a zealot and is already here?

http://www.waste.uk.com/gfx/bear.gif

[furie]

Good job, TSA!


the ID check is an airline requirement and responsibility.

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>

[TooCute]

the ID check is an airline requirement and responsibilit

Is it? In the Nashville airport, my ID was only checked as I was going through security into the concourse where my gate was. I assumed that the people running those security checks were TSA employees, not airline employees.

I am assuming that in LGA my ID ought to have been checked at the security gate as well, as the announcement as we boarded the plane at the gate was that we specifically would NOT need our IDs, only our boarding passes.

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/toocute2.gif>
!! 2% !!<font color=FBF2F7>

[furie]

Is it? In the Nashville airport, my ID was only checked as I was going through security into the concourse where my gate was. I assumed that the people running those security checks were TSA employees, not airline employees.

I am assuming that in LGA my ID ought to have been checked at the security gate as well, as the announcement as we boarded the plane at the gate was that we specifically would NOT need our IDs, only our boarding passes.


the checkpoints are run by TSA. But they guy checking the id's before the checkpoint is a contracted employee paid by the airline. if he's not there, it's not going to be done.

The airline used to check ID's at the gate. TSA used to screen people at the gates too. but that became too expensive for the government and they did away with that months ago. too much overtime and redundancy.

Not only was it redundant, but it was repeated unnecessarily.


<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>

This message was edited by furie on 5-6-03 @ 3:20 PM

[Se7en]

On a personal note, my 87 yr old grandmother got patted down

HOT.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"By the laws of this very government - whether they want to accept it or not - every American is complicit in the darkness that this country spreads across the rest of the world - simply by paying taxes." -- Inali Redpath
"That's terrorist double-talk and I, for one, am SICK of listening to it." -- Captain America

"We have become too civilised to grasp the obvious. For the truth is very simple. To survive you often have to fight, and to fight you have to dirty yourself. War is evil, and it is often the lesser evil."
---George Orwell

[FiveB247]

Se7en..you sick f'er...don't talk bout my grandma. haha

http://www.waste.uk.com/gfx/bear.gif

[spoon]

In my opinion, they should raise the price of traveling, use it to beef up security measure to check everyone as well as cut down on the number of flights to make it possible for security to do their job. That really is the only way you'll truly be safe. Otherwise it's still hit and miss. You can arrest some suspcious man from the Middle East...but can you remove a regular citizen who's a zealot and is already here?
The above quote is rediculous, you truly believe this is the only way? Airline security in this country continues to be a joke due to procedures and idiotic screening processes. Reducing flights, increasing costs and continuing our antiquated security tactics is not only a bad idea for safety, but for the economy of the nation itself. You never fail to amaze me.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/spoon2.jpg">
Nothing...i have nothing!

[silera]

Don't be rediculous Cousin Larry.

Now we do the dance of joy!



<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif

<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
<font color=FBF2F7>

[FiveB247]

The above quote is rediculous, you truly believe this is the only way? Airline security in this country continues to be a joke due to procedures and idiotic screening processes. Reducing flights, increasing costs and continuing our antiquated security tactics is not only a bad idea for safety, but for the economy of the nation itself. You never fail to amaze me.

You may find it ridiculous...but it is a method that would solve a problem. But in the US, everyone needs services done yesterday. Who cares if we have lax airline security...we can travel at anytime, anywhere...right? If you want security and are willing to give up certain aspects of life (money, time, restrictions, etc), it all comes at a price. You can get everything and give nothing in return to attain such things.

http://www.waste.uk.com/gfx/bear.gif

[furie]

In my opinion, they should raise the price of traveling, use it to beef up security measure to check everyone as well as cut down on the number of flights to make it possible for security to do their job. That really is the only way you'll truly be safe.


you don't need to decrease the number of flights. How would that help? All you have to do is get people used to a longer check-in period so the security screeners aren't pressured to push people through. Look at El Al. Best security in the world. They don't cut flights, but it is an mandatory 4 hour check-in prior to take off.

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer2.jpg" width=300 height=100>