New Mid-East peace plan launched [Archive]

FiveB247

04-30-2003, 05:13 PM

You couldn't find a bigger picture to post? My computer screen nearly burst.

Ps...the Peace plan is old news. Same attempts over the same issues with nothing new. This is more of a recycled plan more than anything. If this is their best attempt for peace, we'd be better off removing all our troops, influence, trade, etc and just let them all fend for themselves. We can help Russia tap their oil if necessary. What a joke, but it's sad...cause we're the one's paying for it.

furie

05-01-2003, 07:22 AM

You couldn't find a bigger picture to post? My computer screen nearly burst.

Well, if you'd change the resolution on your commadore 64 from 640x480 then you wouldn't have that problem.

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TheMojoPin

05-01-2003, 09:05 AM

"My friends are knocking down my door...to get into my Commodore 64!!!"

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Bergalad

05-23-2003, 08:11 AM

Ps...the Peace plan is old news. Same attempts over the same issues with nothing new. This is more of a recycled plan more than anything. If this is their best attempt for peace, we'd be better off removing all our troops, influence, trade, etc and just let them all fend for themselves. We can help Russia tap their oil if necessary. What a joke, but it's sad...cause we're the one's paying for it.

Now, check out the news today: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/23/mideast/index.html

Let's recap. The Palestinian Authority has accepted Bush's Peace Road Map, and now Israel says they are ready to accept it. Yes, there might be some tinkering with the final plan, but the news is pretty good: Israel and Palestine have committed to being on the same path for peace. And yet no praise for Bush getting this done. If this actually works, how will the Left stomach Bush's Nobel Peace Prize?

FiveB247

05-23-2003, 08:24 AM

Bergalad, if you recall the last Middle east peace plan, which was the closest they came to success, talks went fine according to plan, until the last and most important part was discussed..... Jerusalem. And when they came to a stalemate, the plan and talks faltered leading to what was more violence and separation. This current peace plan will involve and hopefully create more stability in the region....but it is far from calling it a success now.

And I do enjoy how you bash everyone by calling them 'anti-Bush' when they disagree with him in some cases, yet you're ready to give the guy a nobel prize for something that hasn't been accomplished yet. Would you say the same of Clinton for his efforts during the last peace talks? I doubt it.

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TheMojoPin

05-23-2003, 08:37 AM

how will the Left stomach Bush's Nobel Peace Prize?

What? Wasn't it just Rabin and Arafat before? You're so weird.

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Bergalad

05-23-2003, 08:46 AM

And I thought you were mellowing a little Five.
but it is far from calling it a success now

I didn't call it a success, I said If this actually works
The Nobel comment was speculative humor, not a ringing endorsement and demand. I think this is a very positive step for all parties concerned, and I would say that it has a MUCH greater chance of success than the old sketch Clinton had. Don't be such a pessimist.

TheMojoPin

05-23-2003, 08:59 AM

I think this is a very positive step for all parties concerned, and I would say that it has a MUCH greater chance of success than the old sketch Clinton had.

To imply that Clinton had much more guidance or control over the last peace process than the man who truly was the architect behind it, Rabin, is an insult to his sadly late and lamented name.

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high fly

05-24-2003, 12:07 PM

Bush will give them Palestinians tax cuts!
Yeah, that's the ticket!
But only to the rich ones, if there are any.

" and they ask me why I drink"

Bergalad

05-24-2003, 03:23 PM

Bush will give them Palestinians tax cuts!
Yeah, that's the ticket!
But only to the rich ones, if there are any.

You so bored you decided to complain in every thread today? Go see a movie or something. I recommend a comedy; it will help your bitterness for a while at least. Kidding, kidding, but please! There's not a Tax Cut Conspiriacy out there. Let's all just wish we were richer and actually got something from this tax! Live the dream!

This message was edited by Bergalad on 5-24-03 @ 7:34 PM

Se7en

05-24-2003, 07:24 PM

Wow, every thread DOES turn into a Five / Bergalad argument.

I'm starting to buy into Mojo's Fight Club theory with those two. All I need to fully believe it is for one of them to admit be being an insomniac....

What? Wasn't it just Rabin and Arafat before? You're so weird.

No, Bush has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Tony Blair as well. They were nominated by a Norwegian parliamentarian.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2706011

I hope one of the two wins. Seriously.

Bono has also been nominated, I think. If that fucking Irishman gets it, I'm gonna go pick up Henry Rollins and the two of us are gonna stomp his fucking head in.

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TheMojoPin

05-24-2003, 09:45 PM

No, Bush has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Tony Blair as well. They were nominated by a Norwegian parliamentarian.

Visit this Website

I hope one of the two wins. Seriously.

I thought he was implying that Clinton was nominated for HIS role in the previous peace accords...hence the, "will the left get pissed over Bush's nomination" question...

I just don't see how these two could possibly win. It's not even a matter of me liking or disliking them...we're not even close to a relative notion of peace and stability in Iraq, and already they're shelling out the medals? How about everyone in the country has access to running water and electricity again first? If it actually looks like we have, hopefully succeeded in our ultimate goal of a new, stable Iraq, then by all means, award away. But to award the Nobel Peace Prize for laying the smackdown on a broken country using the most powerful millitary in the world? Uhm, OK then...or am I wrong and were they nominated for some other issue?

And are our troops still fighting around Iraq? To a degree that we couldn't start building quickie airports all over the place? Let's get a Berlin Airlift deal going here! In post-WW2 Berlin you had supply planes landing EVERY THREE MINUTES FOR ALMOST AN ENTIRE YEAR, and in a city surrounded and locked off by the hated commies! Get it in gear!

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-25-03 @ 1:52 AM

Bergalad

05-25-2003, 07:44 AM

Wow, every thread DOES turn into a Five / Bergalad argument.
Cute. I was up all night though...
I thought he was implying that Clinton was nominated for HIS role in the previous peace accords...
No, I was joking alluding to the possibility that Bush, ala Carter, would win a Nobel if peace in Israel is achieved via his Plan. This thing about Bush and Blair being nominated for Iraq (?) seems goofy since I don't know how you could get a Peace Prize by starting a war.

TheMojoPin

05-25-2003, 08:28 AM

No, I was joking alluding to the possibility that Bush, ala Carter, would win a Nobel if peace in Israel is achieved via his Plan. This thing about Bush and Blair being nominated for Iraq (?) seems goofy since I don't know how you could get a Peace Prize by starting a war.

Carter WON? Gads...

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Se7en

05-25-2003, 02:48 PM

But to award the Nobel Peace Prize for laying the smackdown on a broken country using the most powerful millitary in the world?

No less of a joke to give it to Bush or Blair for this than to give the Prize to Khoffi Annan. Which they DID.

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Bergalad

05-25-2003, 03:31 PM

htthttp://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20030525/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_486
Israel's Cabinet approved the plan today. What is significant about this is that it marks the first time they have actually agreed to a Palestinian State. Some issues remain (as you would expect), but this goes beyond what Clinton achieved during his presidency. Really, this is pretty significant, so why aren't the Libs on here coming out to say "hey, not too shabby George!"? It's early yet, but they could give the guy some props at least: he's gotten further in the Israel/Palestine Issue than anyone else in history.

HBox

05-25-2003, 04:46 PM

It's early yet, but they could give the guy some props at least: he's gotten further in the Israel/Palestine Issue than anyone else in history

It's too early. Everytime Clinton made progress all it took was one suicide bombing or one tank heading into a Palestinian village to mess it all up. If this process survives one of those, then we are truly making progress.

TheMojoPin

05-25-2003, 06:50 PM

but this goes beyond what Clinton achieved during his presidency. Really, this is pretty significant, so why aren't the Libs on here coming out to say "hey, not too shabby George!"?

Jesus, calm down. This is the first I've heard of it, and apparently the thing was just signed, what, today? If it works, great...I hope to heck that it does SOMEhow...but quit trying to paint Bush the big winner here. I've done nothing but state how Clinton got TOO much undeserved credit for his role in the last significant peace attempts, and yet you're doing the exact opposite with Bush, who's doing the EXACT same thing...being the middleman. Already his "Middle East PEACEMONGER!" trophy is being put up next to Ronnie's "COLD WAR COMMIE BUSTER!" plague? Settle down there, hotshot...what's the point of trying to poke the "Libs" in an issue that's far, FAR more important than petty partisan differences? It just smacks of pointless antagonizing...

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TheMojoPin

05-25-2003, 06:55 PM

No less of a joke to give it to Bush or Blair for this than to give the Prize to Khoffi Annan. Which they DID.

For what? Maybe he deserved it in that case...

I mean, Bush is fully capable of winning one...it's not impossible. I just think it's insanely laughable to even NOMINATE him over the Iraq affair, especially given it's still far from being finished, AND that nobody is calling us on the mess we've essentially left Afghanistan in for the time being, a good year after the significant fighting ceased there. But this current Israel/Palestine affair...if Bush steps up and plays a stronger role and stands fast and tough to making this stick, MORE than Clinton or any other president did, not only would he deserve it, I'd DEMAND he got it.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-25-03 @ 11:03 PM

TheMojoPin

05-26-2003, 08:50 PM

http://www.theonion.com/onion3918/wdyt_3918.html

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 5-27-03 @ 12:51 AM

IrishAlkey

05-26-2003, 08:57 PM

Let's give him an Academy Award, too...

And an MTV Viewer's Choice Award...

And an AVN award...

And a free subscription to Field and Stream...

And a packet of coupons to Burger King...

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This message was edited by IrishAlkey on 5-27-03 @ 1:00 AM

HBox

05-26-2003, 09:21 PM

No less of a joke to give it to Bush or Blair for this than to give the Prize to Khoffi Annan. Which they DID.

Here is an article about his Nobel prize:http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/nobel.100/peace.story.html

I'm sorry, but giving the Nobel Peace Prize to two people who waged a war is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard in my life. It's like giving the good Citizenship award in school to a bully who kicked the shit out of a kid who was acting up in class.

EDIT: I should read the whol article before linking. Here's a fucking gem from the end of it:

This year, those nominated included the Chinese Falun Gong movement, the European Court of Human Rights, U.S. peace broker Richard Holbrooke, Cuban President Fidel Castro and the game of football.

GO FOOTBALL!!!!

This message was edited by HBox on 5-27-03 @ 1:27 AM

silera

05-27-2003, 04:13 AM

I think there must be a gliche in the Matrix.

Quick Jeff!!! CONTROL ALT DELETE!!!!

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Se7en

05-27-2003, 06:16 PM

Here is an article about his Nobel prize:Visit this Website

Nice read.

Still a joke.

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FiveB247

06-04-2003, 06:13 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/04/mideast.reaction/index.html

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The Jays

06-04-2003, 06:22 PM

Ps...the Peace plan is old news. Same attempts over the same issues with nothing new. This is more of a recycled plan more than anything. If this is their best attempt for peace, we'd be better off removing all our troops, influence, trade, etc and just let them all fend for themselves. We can help Russia tap their oil if necessary. What a joke, but it's sad...cause we're the one's paying for it.

Do you have any positive thoughts whastoever?

 Fuck what you heard.
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FiveB247

06-04-2003, 06:27 PM

It's not as if root for such things. I see the world and items for what they are...in a realistic manner. If you find that harsh or negative...that's your intepretation.

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Bergalad

06-04-2003, 06:55 PM

It's not as if root for such things. I see the world and items for what they are...in a realistic manner.
We find you negative because you never post anything positive. It's all doom and gloom for you. So there's protesters, who cares? Why did you ignore that 4 Arab leaders endorsed Bush's plan today, or that both the Palestinian and Israeli PM's made moves today to help this plan work? Try posting the good with the bad.

FiveB247

06-04-2003, 08:13 PM

Take it as you will, but realize that simply cause I do not post "positive" threads that I am negative or something. If you want to see feel good items...watch the watered down news or Oprah, I hear those are good.

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TheMojoPin

06-04-2003, 08:20 PM

But Five, you gotta admit...you argue something in EVERY thread in here. I'm not saying you have to agree with everything posted, but godDAMN, it seems like you're really just itching for a brawl when you log on...

The world DOES suck, and contrary to what you may have been told, complaining about it literally every chance you get will NOT fix it. Suffering in silence every so often often means suffering with dignity, my friend...don't surrender your convictions, but STOP TRYING SO HARD TO KILL OUR BUZZES. It's not nice.

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FiveB247

06-09-2003, 08:28 AM

http://www.cfr.org/background/mideast_roadmap.php

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This message was edited by FiveB247 on 6-9-03 @ 12:29 PM

silera

06-09-2003, 08:40 AM

I have a question.

What would Palestine look like after all of this goes through possibly?

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FiveB247

06-09-2003, 08:45 AM

Probably something that goes along with the orginal borders via the UN partisan plan. But probably not in locked areas, more like a cluster of settlements with strict guarded borders by what would seem to be international observers.

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This message was edited by FiveB247 on 6-9-03 @ 12:48 PM

Bergalad

06-09-2003, 08:56 AM

Here's a couple of map sites
http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/country/palestine.html
http://www.mideastweb.org/palestineisraeloslo.htm
I haven't seen anything yet on exactly what the newest proposal will look like, but assume it will be about the same as these. One addition I heard about was to create a "free zone" around Jerusalem so neither side would control it. It's gonna be hard to get figured out, with the militant settlers on the Jewish side and the whole "right of return" issue for the 2+ million Palestinian descendants who might want back in. I wish them all luck.

FiveB247

06-09-2003, 09:06 AM

One addition I heard about was to create a "free zone" around Jerusalem so neither side would control it.

This is always the key and final issue for the peace plan. Israel never wants to let control of it go, nor does Palestine want to be without it in its existence.

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silera

06-09-2003, 09:13 AM

That's a big fucking clusterfuck.

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Bergalad

06-09-2003, 09:17 AM

That's a big fucking clusterfuck.

Exactly. It's one of the reasons expectations are so low going into this. Even if a Palestinian State is formed, I sincerely doubt that Hamas and other extremists will stop bombing Israel. Then Israel blames Palestine for harboring and supporting terrorists, attacks Palestine...you see where this goes. It's insane.

FiveB247

06-09-2003, 10:36 AM

bergalad commenting towards me:

We find you negative because you never post anything positive. It's all doom and gloom for you. So there's protesters, who cares? Why did you ignore that 4 Arab leaders endorsed Bush's plan today, or that both the Palestinian and Israeli PM's made moves today to help this plan work? Try posting the good with the bad.

Bergalad's comments today:

Exactly. It's one of the reasons expectations are so low going into this. Even if a Palestinian State is formed, I sincerely doubt that Hamas and other extremists will stop bombing Israel. Then Israel blames Palestine for harboring and supporting terrorists, attacks Palestine...you see where this goes. It's insane.

Is it still just me?!

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TooCute

06-09-2003, 10:57 AM

Exactly. It's one of the reasons expectations are so low going into this. Even if a Palestinian State is formed, I sincerely doubt that Hamas and other extremists will stop bombing Israel. Then Israel blames Palestine for harboring and supporting terrorists, attacks Palestine...you see where this goes. It's insane

yeah yeah. it gives me a headache to just think about it. and you wonder why I hate politics.

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FiveB247

06-11-2003, 03:15 PM

How sad. Hamas, as usual, comes out and says they won't support the peace plan. Israel upon hearing this, attacks, kills a few civilians in the process of attmepting to get Hamas' leader. In retaliation, a suicide bomber hits an Israeli bus. Then Israel goes back on the attack killing 2 militants and a few more civilians. Does anyone honestly believe one side is right here? (both sides are to be condemned) They just keep going after each other..and the only ones who are suffering are the regular civilians who end up as casualties. And as the "peace plan" barely began and has already turned into a mess, each side grow more hateful of their opponent.

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