Is Bush getting off easy?

[HBox]

OK, so it seems this Saudi bombing was bin Laden's doing:http://www.msnbc.com/news/912653.asp?0cv=CA01

We went into Afghanistan to get rid of a government sympathetic to Al Qaeda, to destroy Al Qaeda, and to get Bin Laden. We did only one of those. Over the subsequent months we hear from the government that Bin laden is dead, that he is wounded, that even if he is alive that it doesn't matter, that Al Qaeda has been severely damaged.

This bombing proves that bin Laden is still alive and dangerous, and that Al Qaeda is still effective. And if we are to believe what our intelligence is saying, that there will soon be more attempted attacks.

So, why is Bush receiving little to no criticism over this whole mess?

[GaryWyze]

<font color=purple>Judging by the size of his wife's tits, I'd say yes.

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[DarkHippie]

Judging by the size of his wife's tits, I'd say yes.
Bravo! I bet she was smokin 30 years ago.

I don't know if he's getting off easy, yet. The grumbles will come. Right now News Corp and News Max have a pretty strong lock up on the media (btw: news corp's owner, Rupert Murdoch is buying directtv, so its only going to get worse). Give it time and things will swing around

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[A.J.]

Judging by the size of his wife's tits, I'd say yes.

Which Jenna seemed to inherit:

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[LiquidCourage]

Destroying Al Qaeda isn't as simple as blowing up a few camps in the mountains of Afghanistan. Sure it helps, but that's not it. Al Qaeda is a worldwide network throughout the Middle East, Europe, South East Asia, and North America. They're doing just about all they can. This past year was actually a record low I believe for terrorist attacks. Come on now people, you're all complaining that people's rights are being taken away, but then you'll say not enough is being done. Get your priorities straight. Either Ashcroft and friends are being ruthless hard asses about this or their not.

[HBox]

Come on now people, you're all complaining that people's rights are being taken away, but then you'll say not enough is being done.


Within that comment is the assumption that taking people's rights away is the only way to stop terrorism. It isn't.

And maybe this year is a record low for terrorism (I don't know), but this past week has seen three different attacks, two against us. And we invaded Iraq, which housed exactly 0 Al Qaeda camps and so far exactly 0 WMDs. I don't see how it helped. But I can see how it could have drawn attention away from Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.

[Se7en]

Destroying Al Qaeda isn't as simple as blowing up a few camps in the mountains of Afghanistan. Sure it helps, but that's not it. Al Qaeda is a worldwide network throughout the Middle East, Europe, South East Asia, and North America. They're doing just about all they can. This past year was actually a record low I believe for terrorist attacks. Come on now people, you're all complaining that people's rights are being taken away, but then you'll say not enough is being done. Get your priorities straight. Either Ashcroft and friends are being ruthless hard asses about this or their not.

Why are even bothering.

You know as well as I do that liberals will never be happy with Bush.

Through his foreign policy the man could create WORLD PEACE tomorrow, and the day after that the liberals would go, "Yeah, okay, but what about our economy?!?!?!"

It never ends. He's either doing too much (Iraq) or not doing enough (Al-Qaeda). There is not pleasing some.

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[HBox]

Why are even bothering.

You know as well as I do that liberals will never be happy with Bush.

Through his foreign policy the man could create WORLD PEACE tomorrow, and the day after that the liberals would go, "Yeah, okay, but what about our economy?!?!?!"

It never ends. He's either doing too much (Iraq) or not doing enough (Al-Qaeda). There is not pleasing some.



Why should I even bother. Conservatives won't be satisfied until they have a load Bush jiz in their mouth.

EDIT: I am being sarcastic.

This message was edited by HBox on 5-17-03 @ 8:17 PM

[The Jays]

This bombing proves that bin Laden is still alive and dangerous


No it doesnt. The scary thing about Al Queda is that they don't need a central core leadership in order to proceed with terrorist activity.

So, why is Bush receiving little to no criticism over this whole mess?


How the fuck is it Bush's fault for terrorists blowing themselves up?? We've taken out alot of terrorist leaders, we've asked for cooperation from other countries, we got Iraq out of the equation, wtf??

<font color="blue" face="Trebuchet MS" size=-2> Fuck what you heard.</font>
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[Se7en]

EDIT: I am being sarcastic.

You needed an edit to put that in there?

I mean, dude, I know I'm rational enough to know you were being smartass without the edit to tell me that.

It's not that I want a load of Bush jizz, as you eloquently put it.

What are pointing fingers at, though? The fact that Bush said Al-Qaeda is on the run? Even that big fat liberal load Jack Whatshisname.....you know, the fat guy who used to be with the Baltimore Sun and is on Inside Washington every week.....even HE said that Bush pretty much had to say that.

You can't really blame the Saudi bombing on us, because we warned the Saudis, but there are too many officials in their government / royal family who SUPPORT the terrorism, so the necessary security measures weren't taken.

If you're arguing Sen. Graham's point that the War on Terror "ended" a year ago, and the Iraq war took away from the fight.....well, with all due respect to Graham, I think he's overreacting, since a) there were several news stories about operations we were performing in Afghanistand DURING the Iraq war (you may have missed them - they were easily overshadowed by the news of the war itself) and b) while Graham is certainly in a more knowledgeable position than me about such matters of intelligence, he hasn't brought forth any evidence at all that would convince me of his assertion that we haven't done enough in certain areas.

So, I would say: no, Bush is not getting off too easy, because there really isn't much there that you can seriously criticize him about in regards to the War on Terror. There's some - there's always some - but not enough to make it the focal point of one's political platform, as Graham seems to be doing.


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Cap sez: The mods are all Nazi fascist cocksuckers drunk with power. Does THAT fit inside 3 lines, asshole?

[HBox]

One of the major criticisms against this war in Iraq was that it was diverting resources and attention from the real threat. That it would make future terrorist strikes more likely. With the huge amount of resources we used in Iraq, can anyone honstely say we did everything we possibly could to stop future Al Qaeda attacks? Two attacks in one week is a lot. And now our own intelligence is telling us to expect even more.

If I felt that Bush was doing all he could to stop Al Qaeda and these attacks still happened, I wouldn't say anything. However, he used a shitload of monentary, military, and intelligence on Iraq when Al Qaeda was still actively trying to attack us. Can you say Iraq was actively trying to attack us? I can't, and I don't think even Bush could say so. And that is why I think it should have waited.

[Se7en]

If I felt that Bush was doing all he could to stop Al Qaeda and these attacks still happened, I wouldn't say anything.

Are basing your entire criticisms upon the two bombings from this weekend?

The Saudi bombing wasn't OUR fault. We did what we could to warn the Saudis that it was happening. They just dropped the ball.

The Morrocco bombing wasn't even against us, it was primarily against Jewish interests. And while they think it may be Al-Qaeda, there is no concrete evidence to say that it WAS them. But even if it was, the attacks were more likely in response to the Isralie / Palestine meetings this weekend......which the Palestinians once again managed to fuck up....

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Cap sez: The mods are all Nazi fascist cocksuckers drunk with power. Does THAT fit inside 3 lines, asshole?

[Death Metal Moe]

I love this.

When Al-Queda blows something up, Bush wasn't hard enough on Terroroism abroad.

When some asshole reported that a serviceman didn't have enough food one day, our troops were starving, and Bush's team was pushing too far too fast. That was never really proven.

When they took a day or two break, we were in a quagmire and Bush hadn't accounted for the Stiff Iraqi resistance.


Even I wouldn't try to blame EVERY bad thing that happened between 92 to 2000 on Clinton.

You people are pathetic.

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666%

[Doomstone]

Don't be stupid.

The point people are trying to make, is not that these bombings are the fault of GW Bush.

People are saying that the war against Iraq did NOTHING to prevent terrorism.

The war against Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism.

Terrorism persists, even after the war against Iraq.

Maybe if we had spent less time waging war against a non-threat such as Iraq, and focused on genuine threats, these bombings would not have taken place.

[Bestinshow]

People are saying that the war against Iraq did NOTHING to prevent terrorism.

The war against Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism



Wow, you guys are good. With all the intelligence to the contrary, you guys on the left have all the inside information. We should just fire the FBI and CIA and ask liberals who the terrorists and threats are because evidently they have all the conclusive evidence.

Maybe if we had spent less time waging war against a non-threat such as Iraq, and focused on genuine threats, these bombings would not have taken place.


Once again, we should start consulting the right source, the Liberals,so we can finally figure out who the threats are. Maybe the UN should consult too, because they thought Iraq enough of a threat to choke the shit out of them the last ten years with sanctions.

Don't be stupid.


We can`t help it. We are conservative. If we disagree with Liberals we must be stupid.

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[HBox]

Did I ever say that this was Bush's fault? No. I asked if he deserves criticism and some of you start going on a rant that I, or rather liberals, hate everything he does. You lump my question in with every little stupid complaint anybody has ever had about Bush and then write me off as a liberal who will never be satisfied. This happens in almost every goddamned post and I am getting sick of it.

Are basing your entire criticisms upon the two bombings from this weekend?


Yes, mostly. Two attacks in one week is alot. The Moroccan bombing seems like it wasn't targeting us andtaht we really could do nothing to prevent it.

However, this all proves that Al Qaeda is active and dangerous. I don't think we did enough to try and wipe them out and that is why I think Bush deserves some criticism.

[TheMojoPin]

Holy balls, people are dumb.

One MAIN crux of the Iraqi invasion was that it would somehow make us safe from terrorism. Now, look at in black and white...between the end of the Afghanistan campaign and the Iraqi invasion, relatively few attacks. Now, within weeks of Iraq supposedly being liberated, we have a glut of fullscale terrorist bombings from the organization that you would assume we had been pursuing the hardest. It has nothing to do with "liberal" or "conservative"...we obviously pulled off resources from one "war" to fight another...we'd HAVE to...and it's just common sense that it's pretty damn likely that these attacks could have been stopped (As we've already done in hundreds of other cases around the world!) if the resources we used to fight them before weren't primarily focused on Iraq.

Mainly I think people think this isnt a "big deal" because once again, these are attacks NOT happening on American soil. If someone had set off 5 bombs in, say, Ohio that killed 40 people, would we even be having this conversation? How quickly must we forget?!?

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[Death Metal Moe]

We warned the Saudi's about our intelligence of a possible Al Queda attack. They chose to ignore our warnings. And there's only so much we can do in a coutry that won't allow us to even investigate crimes against our own citizens.

So we knew about that one. The Morrocan attack seems to be an actual surprise.

Also, please don't make these assholes out to be Brain Surgeons. They drove shit into populated areas and blew them up. Now I agree this takes a lot of prep work and cooperation with each scumbag, but to suggest it's difinitive prooof that Al Queda is back at full power is foolish. It only proves that they continued to plan.

And if you want to talk failure of policies, how about Clinton turning down Osama more than once.

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[Bestinshow]

we obviously pulled off resources from one "war" to fight another...we'd HAVE to...and it's just common sense that it's pretty damn likely that these attacks could have been stopped (As we've already done in hundreds of other cases around the world!) if the resources we used to fight them before weren't primarily focused on Iraq.



I find it unlikely that if we weren`t in Iraq that we would have more troops in Morrocco or that exact spot in saudi Arabia. This didn`t happen because of Iraq. This happened because of the peace negotiations in Israel. Nobody ever claimed that Iraq was the only hot spot in the Middle east. It is an F`en mine field.

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[TheMojoPin]

This didn`t happen because of Iraq. This happened because of the peace negotiations in Israel.

I'm not saying that reasoning behind the attacks was simply because we were in Iraq...I'm saying there's a good chance they happened because the resources we could have used to STOP them were focused on Iraq. Obviously, I don't know this, I'm only assuming...like Moe said, these terrorists are NOT "super villains", and as long as we keep our ears to the ground (As we've done literally HUNDREDS of times since 9/11) we CAN catch these assholes before they pull anything. I just think that Iraq, unfortunately, got us a little distracted...

And Moe, technically Reagan or Bush could have "gotten" Bin Laden as well. Clinton didn't personally decide to "not get him"...he was advised not to do so by our intelligence agencies, and it's a mistake they regret to this day. If a republican or another democrat had been president, the same thing would have been advised. At the time, Bin Laden and his buddies were really considered "just another extremist group"...you don't understand how truly in the dark we were in the Middle East region...

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[Se7en]

Holy balls, people are dumb.

Are you referring in part to me?

it's just common sense that it's pretty damn likely that these attacks could have been stopped (As we've already done in hundreds of other cases around the world!) if the resources we used to fight them before weren't primarily focused on Iraq.

Morocco, maybe.

AGAIN, "none on us" in regards to the Saudis. We had reason to believe it was coming, and we warned. The Saudis didn't do anything about it because a) they fund a lot of the terrorism, and b) several members of the ruling party / royal family are sympathetic / connected to terrorist groups.

Mainly I think people think this isnt a "big deal" because once again, these are attacks NOT happening on American soil. If someone had set off 5 bombs in, say, Ohio that killed 40 people, would we even be having this conversation? How quickly must we forget?!?

I haven't forgotten.

I'm just not as quick to jump on the whole Graham "We're not REALLY fighting the War on Terror!" bandwagon as others.


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[TheMojoPin]

I'm just not as quick to jump on the whole Graham "We're not REALLY fighting the War on Terror!" bandwagon as others.

Neither am I. I'm mostly parroting the complaints of my own father, who's lost both serious funding AND manpower in his division of the Agency's counter terrorism center to the war on Iraq. And he AGREES with the administration's decsion to invade. He's just frustrated with what he sees as an unecessary and mismanaged redirection of too much of our intelligence resources.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TheMojoPin]

Are you referring in part to me?

Maybe. Anyone on either side who tried to dumb this down to a "liberal vs. conservative" issue. I'm too lazy to look back and see who said what, but if the shoe fits...THROW IT AWAY!

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Bestinshow]

Maybe. Anyone on either side who tried to dumb this down to a "liberal vs. conservative" issue.


Obviously this isn`t simply a "liberal vs. conservative" issue but unfortunately some people don`t have enough of a mind to form opinions on anything else but party loyalty.

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[HBox]

Obviously this isn`t simply a "liberal vs. conservative" issue but unfortunately some people don`t have enough of a mind to form opinions on anything else but party loyalty.


And you wouldn't be one of those people, would you?

[Bestinshow]

And you wouldn't be one of those people, would you?




Not everybody can have as open and fluid mind as you. Actually,Einstein, you were one of the people I was thinking of specifically.

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This message was edited by Bestinshow on 5-21-03 @ 3:17 PM

[Se7en]

Quote:
Are you referring in part to me?



Maybe. Anyone on either side who tried to dumb this down to a "liberal vs. conservative" issue. I'm too lazy to look back and see who said what, but if the shoe fits...THROW IT AWAY!

I personally do not view it as a simple liberal v. conservative issue. It obviously transcends political affiliation.

BUT I do believe that people like Graham are making this into a liberal vs. conservative issue, and that bugs me.

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[TheMojoPin]

BUT I do believe that people like Graham are making this into a liberal vs. conservative issue, and that bugs me.

Me too.

Let's be the bigger men and not sink to that level.

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[Death Metal Moe]

SHUT UP, LIB!

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[TheMojoPin]

Don't make me bust Cuba on your ass, Yankee-capitalist-scum.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

Why can't the proletariat and the bourgeous come together?

[TheMojoPin]

Because he may be a lover...but he ain't no dancer, dammit.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Death Metal Moe]

Suck my stars and stripes, Pinko!

http://web.mit.edu/deansgallery/slade/images/superpatriot.gif

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[TheMojoPin]

In Commitopia, we don't have the demon homosexuality, homo.

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Bestinshow]

Why can`t we all just get along?

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[Se7en]

Because he may be a lover...but he ain't no dancer, dammit.


What's that from? Seriously.

That got sampled in a skinnypuppy song and I have no clue what the original source material is.

It's probably some famous movie, and I'm culturally ignorant to it.

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[A.J.]

What's that from? Seriously.


"Helter Skelter"

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A Skidmark production.

[TheMojoPin]

Oh, Se7en...I'm coming down fast, but I'm still MILES above you...

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Se7en]

Oh, Se7en...I'm coming down fast, but I'm still MILES above you...

I WILL see you fall beneath me!

What can I say? I don't like the Beatles.

And that wasn't even Steve Railsback's best film.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

[TheMojoPin]

Listen to "Helter Skelter".

It's the song made for people who don't like The Beatles. Trust me...you won't be sorry...

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."