Senators comments on Iraq

[FiveB247]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030521/ap_on_go_co/iraq_byrd_5

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[A.J.]

I have to admit, he makes some interesting points.

At the same time, I find it difficult to take seriously a man who has spent the past 50 years using his own "false premises" to justify numerous pork-barrel projects in his native West Virginia.

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[FiveB247]

Yeah, definately Mojo. They all do that crap though. Sadly, it has become fair game and common practice.

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[El Mudo]

Ah yes...the latest installment of "Byrd Droppings"

I have a hard time believing anything Sheets Byrd has to say....not only cause he was in the Klan, but after hearing him talk, he sounds like he's gone senile...

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[LiquidCourage]

Why does the media focus so much on this guy?
I don't think I've ever once heard Senate majority leader Bill Frist speak, yet every day this bumbling moron is highlighted.

[LiquidCourage]

And his famous sound clips.

"Pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty!"

[LiquidCourage]

The New York Times- what a valuable source of accurate information!

[A.J.]

Yeah, definately Mojo.


Ummm, it's A.J.

Why does the media focus so much on this guy?
I don't think I've ever once heard Senate majority leader Bill Frist speak, yet every day this bumbling moron is highlighted.


Because he's now the most Senior Senator and he's famous for his ramblings about the Roman Empire and being a stickler for Senate rules and proceures.

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[A.J.]

On a related note, the CIA has begun a review to determine the accuracy of pre-war intel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/22/international/worldspecial/22INTE.html?ex=1054267200&en=8ce18d0d620bf7f6&ei=5071&partner=CNN

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[HBox]

I'm glad we are reviewing our assessments of the threat of Iraq after we already invaded them.

[Death Metal Moe]

I'm glad we are reviewing our assessments of the threat of Iraq after we already invaded them.

Well they were flat out wrong, and the American people know it.

So all they have left is to nit pick all these little points, overlooking the Liberation of millions and the elemination of a Global terror supporter.

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[A.J.]

I'm glad we are reviewing our assessments of the threat of Iraq after we already invaded them.

It's typical actually. Pardon the milspeak but "after action reports" and "lessons learned" are ways to determine how accurate and effective our actions were. Also, they can recommend ways to do things better if need be.

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[Immigration Dude]

What did Marion Hossa and Patrick Lalime have to say about it?

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[HBox]

overlooking the Liberation of millions and the elemination of a Global terror supporter.


1. Not our job
2. Debatable

[TheMojoPin]

overlooking the Liberation of millions

*Ahem* Bleeding heart much?

Fuck 'em. I honestly couldn't give a good goddam since we'll ignore/support at least a dozen other governments just as bad or worse, AND I'm struggling to just pay for a fucking roof over my head despite having a much-vaunted college education AND I have to keep firing people at work that should not be fired. At least PRETEND like we're more important.

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[Yerdaddy]

Dick Lugar, Republican Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, asking questions that should be common knowledge among the American people, much less the Sentate Foreign Relations Committee. <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23629-2003May21.html?nav=hptoc_eo" target="_blank">A Victory at Risk</a>

I sat through this 3 1/2 hour Senate hearing with Wolfowitz today and he didn't answer shit. He's still trying to blame Saddam.

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[A.J.]

Clearly, the administration's planning for the post-conflict phase in Iraq was inadequate.

No shit. That was my concern before we invaded and I fear it'll come back to bite us on the ass. To do this right, we're going to have to do the unpopular thing of keeping a force (preferably international) in Iraq for a few years.

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 5-23-03 @ 7:37 AM

[FiveB247]

Sorry bout that AJ. hehe

Anyways, the review of the pre-war information is important. Who knows if we'll ever hear the complete story or see the whole picture or lack there of...but it is necessary tool of intelligence gathering as well as planning.

As for the liberation of Iraq, it is a great thing to see these people not be under an evil dictator anymore. But coming from Moe (far from liberal), it's more of an after thought.

I do find it interesting that the looting of nuclear facilities may have led to missing items ending up in the hands of 'the wrong people'. Wasn't that one of the main arguments for the war in the first place? hehe

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[Bergalad]

Byrd's comments:
He said the United States "appears to be pushing off Iraq's clamor for self-government."
"It is becoming all too clear that the smiling face of the U.S. as liberator is quickly assuming the scowl of an occupier," he said. "The image of the boot on the throat has replaced the beckoning hand of freedom."
This is reckless talk for a senior US Senator. By comparing US peacekeeping forces in Iraq to (basically) SS soldiers or secret police is without question inflammatory and unacceptable. To prove how out of touch and senile he is, Byrd condems the US for not allowing the Iraqis to govern themselves already. He doesn't raise any valid points or provide any proof for his claims of "ample evidence" concerning subterfuge by our government.
I will be among the first to decry the Iraq War if there are no WMD found, because that is how it was sold to the country. We shouldn't be the liberators of the oppressed around the world, and if that's all we got out of this then I think we got jipped.

[TheMojoPin]

I will be among the first to decry the Iraq War if there are no WMD found, because that is how it was sold to the country. We shouldn't be the liberators of the oppressed around the world, and if that's all we got out of this then I think we got jipped.

On the opposite end of that, the second we find conclusive evidence that there are actual threatening and substantial WMD's (Or they were quickly destroyed or moved before the invasion), I'll happily admit I was wrong on my end.

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[FiveB247]

Reckless talk by a US Senator? Does the important and valid talk only come from those you allign your beliefs with? Just wondering..

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[A.J.]

Byrd condems the US for not allowing the Iraqis to govern themselves already.


And he is old enough to remember that it took a few years after World War II to finish the process of "deNazification", craft a new constitution, and set up a new government in Germany. It was pretty much the same with Japan. I can't believe he thinks we're going to establish a new government overnight. Not taking time would be the worst thing we could do.

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[Bergalad]

Reckless talk by a US Senator? Does the important and valid talk only come from those you allign your beliefs with? Just wondering..
It's not a matter of political stance here Five. He is not backing-up his statements, and if he did maybe I would be able to believe him. He's just spewing out crap to attack the president, not trying to help things. Saying we have a boot to the throat of Iraq is not only untrue, but feeds into the idea that we are oppressors instead of liberators. Hell, we quintupled the annual salary of teachers in Iraq from what Saddam had it as, and we are the oppressors? If Byrd had facts instead of empty rhetoric I would listen, but all he is proving is that his constituents should be embarrassed.

[FiveB247]

Do you believe the Iraqi people think we are simply their liberators? They know we liberated them, but believe we are there to stay. The lack of UN input due to the US's sole leadership role in the situation also confirms to them the idea of 'imperialism'. The US may not have complete intention of such things, but the people of Iraq are not, nor never will see the US as more than oppressors and imperials. They simply believe they've lost their dictator and are waiting for their new one to take the realms. And with many of the case studies which have occurred in South America, Central America, South East Asia among other "testing areas", they have no real reason to believe otherwise. People are quick to point at Germany and Japan..but when it comes down to it, they are the minority of such rebuilding and development projects for nation building. The US does not stand well in an environment where we are hated. it would behoove them to set-up an interim government via the UN, make oil ties and business contracts (like they really want), and then leave. Staying and setting up bases amongst other things only makes more targets for extremists as well as puts American lives at risk.

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[Bergalad]

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you had set this up as a Byrd apologist thread. Of course people point to Germany and Japan, but they should also remember Panama, Kosovo, Bosnia, and Serbia as countries the US has affected a "regime change" in. The main difference between all of these (limited in some cases) successes and Afghanistan/Iraq? The previous ones don't completely believe in hate-monger, fanatical religions. All of the other countries are better off, so I think our track record is pretty good considering. Just like during the war when the naysayers said things like "quagmire" and "another Vietnam" but were proven wrong, let's give it a little bit and see what happens in Iraq. Either way, Byrd is wrong, and the people of Iraq (even if they don't want to believe it) are infinitely better off than they were 6 months ago. We could shoot 10 civilians a day there and they would still be in better shape than under Saddam. I don't see how you can argue that.

[El Mudo]

Is it me, or does every thread in this forum eventually turn into a FiveB/Bergalad argument thread?

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[Bergalad]

It's only every-other thread, just so you know. And we take Tuesdays off.

[mdr55]

Go Sens Go!!