Deficit, Social security and medicare..

[FiveB247]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030529/bs_afp/us_economy_britain_press_030529125334

The deficit for 2002 is $44.2 trillion, by 2008 it will be $54 trillion. But here's the kicker..., current (living) generations are estimated to receive $8.7 trillion in social security (shrinking coverage and allowances will occur due to longevity and the attempt to rectify this problem though). Future generations are projected to PAY $1.7 trillion. Sadly, medicare is in even worse shape. http://specials.ft.com/spdocs/WP-Fiscal-Smetters.pdf

But who really needs to retire or receive medical care or benefits they've paid for their entire life and won't receive? right?

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[A.J.]

But who really needs to retire or receive medical care or benefits they've paid for their entire life and won't receive? right?


Precisely why it should be optional for people not to have to pay into the system.

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[furie]

exactly. I have a pension, I don't need to rely on SS

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[FiveB247]

Well it's not always a matter of having an alternative income...it's more of the part of being told you will pay now and receive your just benefits later.

Working Man's a Sucker.

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[furie]

Well it's not always a matter of having an alternative income...it's more of the part of being told you will pay now and receive your just benefits later.


yes, I know. which is why I was agreeing with AJ.

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[phixion]

i love social security, u recieve it when your 65 yet the average age of death for black males is 55. wow this isnt a biased gov't.

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drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[reeshy]

i love social security, u recieve it when your 65 yet the average age of death for black males is 55. wow this isnt a biased gov't.


Wow- you finally cracked the code- The guvmint is run by the KKK!!!

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[Heavy]

You dont have to pay social security.

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[furie]

i love social security, u recieve it when your 65 yet the average age of death for black males is 55. wow this isnt a biased gov't.


yes. government bad. all bad and evil. you are so right, oh wait, no you're not. The average life expectancy for black is 68.2 years. look it up.

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[HBox]

Social Security isn't all for retirement. It's also for disablility benefits if you get injured. And, for retirement, it is designed to be a foolproof safety net. It's there in case your outside pensions fall through. Unfortunately, that is becoming a reality as we saw with Enron and currently with some of the American steel companies, who are quickly running out of money and paying out more in pensions than they are for current employees.

That is why we must perserve social security. If I may steal a phrase, "Lockbox! Lockbox! Lockbox!"

This message was edited by HBox on 5-29-03 @ 9:00 PM

[jamesdiggy]

Deficit, Social Security, and Medicare

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Name the only three things in worse shape than Dom DeLuise.

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[whoopsy]

Working Man's a Sucker.


Nooo, let him get up and go to work everyday, try and earn a living, then you'll see who the tough guy is, the working man, your father's the tough guy!!!!

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[The Jays]

i love social security, u recieve it when your 65 yet the average age of death for black males is 55. wow this isnt a biased gov't.



Yet life expectancy for Americans is in the 70's. Would the solution to this be that the government should single out black people and give them social security before 55, which is racist in itself?

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[LiquidCourage]

The government intervention into the medical industry is what jacks these prices up beyond belief in the first place.

[Death Metal Moe]

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[phixion]

yes. government bad. all bad and evil. you are so right, oh wait, no you're not. The average life expectancy for black is 68.2 years. look it up.


i wont deny i had that fact stuck in my head for the past 5 years and i havent looked it up in awhile. i dont think that the gov't is bad. it needs tweaking.i have problems with social security as a whole. im paying it and i wont ever get any of it, or see any benefits from it.

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"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[TheMojoPin]

Precisely why it should be optional for people not to have to pay into the system.

Can I shift the millitary and defense portions of my taxes over to schools, police and fire departments? Thanks.

Man, was someone seriously presenting a Chris Rock BIT as FACT? Yikes...

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[A.J.]

Working Man's a Sucker.


"The Lord loves a working man, don't trust Whitey, see a doctor and get rid of it."

Can I shift the millitary and defense portions of my taxes over to schools, police and fire departments? Thanks.


Whatever you want Thoreau.

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[JerryTaker]

The government intervention into the medical industry is what jacks these prices up beyond belief in the first place.


No. We've been over this already, it's the ambulance-chasing lawyers that jack up the price of healthcare. Doctors have to pay so much protection because lawyers are getting rich off of our "justice" system, using the Hospitals and doctors as scapegoats



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[FiveB247]

James diggity..that's some funny shiznit.

Let me throw this curiousity out there...Would it be unheard of to sue the government when I lack the proper benefits I payed for? With income tax receipts..it's easy to add how much a person invested in SS and similar. Could one sue for such a thing?

Ps..Working man is a sucker.

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This message was edited by FiveB247 on 5-30-03 @ 11:16 AM

[TheMojoPin]

Ps..Working man is a sucker.

Holy crap, you hate EVERYONE that isn't you.

I think you and JiZ should get together and talk about how cool it is to kill people and be all scary and stuff.

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[FiveB247]

I don't hate anyone. And getting together to talk about killing....not exactly my thing.

People work their entire life (some harder than others)...to get what exactly? Most people hate their jobs and work simply for economic stability and income (which also usually is not gratifying on low wages). So if you ask me, Yes...the working man is a sucker. Bust your ass most of your life to retire...but you'll probably be dead before you do..or even if you do get to retire...your benefits and income will be cut. Yeah...let's get back to work..hmm.

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[furie]

Could one sue for such a thing?


i could truly see that being a class action suit in 40 years.

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[FiveB247]

Furie, I think it's very logical and would actually work. But the government would literally go broke and probably have a huge economic crisis for such a thing...so it makes me think that a court would never allow it to occur.

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[A.J.]

i could truly see that being a class action suit in 40 years.

Nah, it's the government. If it was the private sector then maybe.

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[TheMojoPin]

Bust your ass most of your life to retire...but you'll probably be dead before you do..or even if you do get to retire...your benefits and income will be cut.

But...some of us just LIKE to work. I love my job and really, really enjoy working each day. My workforce is split pretty evenly between people in their 20's and retirees who don't NEED the money by any stretch of the imagination, but simply WANT to work and enjoy it. We're not all as miserable as you seem to think we are here in the "lower bracket"...

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[FiveB247]

Of course some people like to work and actually like their jobs. But statistics and studies have shown overwhelming, the majority hate their jobs.

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[TheMojoPin]

Show me.

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[furie]

i like my job

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[JerryTaker]

I only hate my job because they can't afford to pay me what they used to...

..time to find a new job...

Oh wait....

Thanks George!



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[FiveB247]

Here's an article refering to job dissatisfaction. This isn't current but notice the level and how they have dropped off and show this general trend in the workplace. http://www.cnn.com/2000/CAREER/trends/10/23/job.dissatisfaction/

Here's an article refering to employees and general working conditions. http://www.cnn.com/2000/CAREER/careercenter/09/28/work.vs.life/

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[furie]

found that only 50.7 percent of respondents overall said they're satisfied with their current jobs. And that's a downward change of 13.5 percent from 1995, when 58.6 percent of those asked said they were satisfied.


Umm....isn't that down 7.9% not 13.5%?

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[HBox]

found that only 50.7 percent of respondents overall said they're satisfied with their current jobs. And that's a downward change of 13.5 percent from 1995, when 58.6 percent of those asked said they were satisfied.


Umm....isn't that down 7.9% not 13.5%?

Math done by Death Metal Moe.

[high fly]

When I've got that hammer in my hand, I'm happy with my job.
It's the rest of the time that I hate.
On the thread topic: record debt rising faster than income----a Republican tradition for over 20 years.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[travis151]

You lazy F'ers, you want to beat the "system" show the government were to go. Well bust you asses and work!!! Take pride in what ever you do and just live your lifes. Quit bitching about how the government is keeping you down. Always saying what can my government to for me ? How about do something for yourselves. I'm 25 years old I work construction I like my job , my boss is tough and I pay bills like everyone else. Now since I help put my girlfriend through school, its my turn. I'm gonna work full time and go to school at night its going to be hard but I'm gonna do it. It might takes several years but MY hard work will pay off. So if you don't like you job go back to school and get a new one but quit your bitching. Oh yeah and when your making more money you'll see how it feels to lose half your money going to f'ing taxes.

Red Sox=More Better

[FiveB247]

Who's a lazy f'er?

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[FUNKMAN]

Nooo, let him get up and go to work everyday, try and earn a living, then you'll see who the tough guy is, the working man, your father's the tough guy!!!!



was that from "A Bronx Tale" ?

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[FiveB247]

I can't believe it went un-noticed this long!

Ps..Working man is a sucker.

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[Cybersoldier]

I have an illogical theory I call it the bush curse, everytime a Bush win the presidency the economy goes down and a war occurs, and the deficit goes up. The same will occur without a question if another bush gets into the white house. Instead of giving back all the surplus money to the working american public, how about just cut taxes, the money the working and middle class get from the government, being given back with go to stop this deficit in the next tax cycle.

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[FiveB247]

Or instead of giving people back minimal gains...we could have attempted to save social security. But who needs future income..right? Man that is going to be some serious panic.

Btw...since when is a 2 time occurence equal a theory? You can't just blame the Bush's...it's Reaganomics. Neo-liberalism is evil.

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[phixion]

Btw...since when is a 2 time occurence equal a theory? You can't just blame the Bush's...it's Reaganomics. Neo-liberalism is evil.


i dont like reagan, and bush I was okay, its this bush II i have serious problems with. the other dudes won the popular vote so we got what we wanted. but this fucker never should have held office, he should b on a cereal box trying to sell me lucky charms. or at least sitting around doing more yayo than tony montana.

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"smoking weed, smoking weed doing coke, drinking beers
drinking beers, beers, beersrolling fatties, smoking bluntswho smokes the blunts?we smoke the blunts." -Jay

[FiveB247]

i dont like reagan, and bush I was okay, its this bush II i have serious problems with. the other dudes won the popular vote so we got what we wanted. but this fucker never should have held office, he should b on a cereal box trying to sell me lucky charms. or at least sitting around doing more yayo than tony montana.

What a lame f'n excuse! Regardless of uncounted/ messed up votes...what's done is done. His policies now have little to do with a messed up situation in what occured in the last election. The current Bush is a throwback to orginal Reaganomics and his politics. Bush's father was a softer, lighter version of Reagan. If you have that big a problem with him being in office...protest the Electorial College..not his economic policy which is of no barring of the actual election results.

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[Death Metal Moe]

Math done by Death Metal Moe.


13%? That's like 48%!

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[SonOfSmeagol]

Ten Truths About America's Entitlement Programs (http://www.uschamber.com/tentruths)

We need a national conversation, not a filibuster—a conversation that leads to understanding and drives us toward swift action. But reform is not going to happen until we agree on these 10 truths. So let’s get the truth out there. Let’s start the debate. Let’s find the right solutions.

[hanso]

"If the minimum wage had simply tracked U.S. productivity gains since 1968, it would be $21.72 an hour — three times what it is now."

Wouldn't be as much an emphasis on this stuff if above would take place.

[Pitdoc]

Ten Truths About America's Entitlement Programs (http://www.uschamber.com/tentruths)

Hmmmm, yeah I certainly believe a set of values put out by a group funded by corporations .Just because its flashy doesn't make it true . Such as, I'm sure their "modifications" involve corporations paying less withholding taxes .

[SonOfSmeagol]

"If the minimum wage had simply tracked U.S. productivity gains since 1968, it would be $21.72 an hour — three times what it is now."

Wouldn't be as much an emphasis on this stuff if above would take place.

who, specifically, with power and influence, is calling for such artificial controls? if it's such a good idea then where are they? where do you think the employers are going to find the extra ~14/hr? reality hits and you have less workers/hours and higher prices to the very consumers who make that "extra" money, among many other factors that point to such a scheme having no chance of working

[SonOfSmeagol]

Hmmmm, yeah I certainly believe a set of values put out by a group funded by corporations .Just because its flashy doesn't make it true . Such as, I'm sure their "modifications" involve corporations paying less withholding taxes .

believe? what, specifically, is not true as stated by the evil chamber of commerce. since you're so sure, prove it. meantime, got a better idea?

[Pitdoc]

believe? what, specifically, is not true as stated by the evil chamber of commerce. since you're so sure, prove it. meantime, got a better idea?

Yes, I have a better idea. Corporate tax rate is up to 35% for high -profit companies .But,because of paid-for loopholes, they only pay an effective rate of 12%. MAKE THEM PAY 35%. Deficit (mostly ) solved. But then , I fully believe that NO ONE should have gotten a tax break this January, at least while we have a deficit. Social Security behind? Make a "donut hole" between 110 & 250K , meaning you pay your SS taxes again after 250K ( You stop now at around 110) Shores up SS for another 15 yrs

[jimmyolsenblues]

Yes, I have a better idea. Corporate tax rate is up to 35% for high -profit companies .But,because of paid-for loopholes, they only pay an effective rate of 12%. MAKE THEM PAY 35%. Deficit (mostly ) solved. But then , I fully believe that NO ONE should have gotten a tax break this January, at least while we have a deficit. Social Security behind? Make a "donut hole" between 110 & 250K , meaning you pay your SS taxes again after 250K ( You stop now at around 110) Shores up SS for another 15 yrs

I think the effective rate is much much lower than 12%, remember they can deduct so many bogus expenses before the bottom line profit.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Yes, I have a better idea. Corporate tax rate is up to 35% for high -profit companies .But,because of paid-for loopholes, they only pay an effective rate of 12%. MAKE THEM PAY 35%. Deficit (mostly ) solved. But then , I fully believe that NO ONE should have gotten a tax break this January, at least while we have a deficit. Social Security behind? Make a "donut hole" between 110 & 250K , meaning you pay your SS taxes again after 250K ( You stop now at around 110) Shores up SS for another 15 yrs

nope. 35%, etc etc is totally irrelevant because that has nothing to do with mandatory spending for entitlements. I think they actually tap into the discretionary though to pay interest on entitlement borrowing and that's wrong. and if you pay more into SS (e.g., after 250K) then you get it back later. this would only serve to feed the cash flow needs and would nothing to fix the problem in the longterm, in fact it would increase the gov't obligations for pay out.

that payroll tax holiday, btw, was imo one of the stupidest, short-sighted moves...