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phixion
06-04-2003, 10:07 AM
In the late 1880's a child by the name of James Howlett was born. As a child James was a frail and sick boy. His allergies didn't allow him to go out and play much. His father had requested that a twelve year old girl be brought to their estate. That girl was named Rose and she was to be a friend and play mate to James. She read to him and looked after him. Along with the grounds keeper's son, Dog, James and Rose were the only children on the hill where the estate was. They had become close friends and played together as much as possible but Dog slowly grew away from them. Dog's father, the grounds keeper was named Thomas Logan, he was an alcoholic and abuse his son.

Over the next few years Dog started to follow in his father footsteps, becoming cruel and heartless. James was given more responsibilities by his father and grandfather. After a big fight, Dog killed James's K-9 companion which resulted in the Logans getting kicked off the Howlett estate.

In a fit of rage and anger Thomas Logan and his son entered the estate armed. They then took Rose hostage and demanded that she take them to the masters' bedroom. There the elder Logan tried to persuade James's mother, Elizabeth, to leave with them. Before they could leave John entered the room and discovered them together. In a rage of hate and dislike Thomas shot John as James walked into the room. Seeing his father shot and killed shocked him so much that it triggered his latent mutant abilities. His claws extended and continued through Thomas.

After his mother shunned him for his unusual abilities he fled the house. Rose followed to see what she could do. She found James outside the house on the ground and cold. She brought him to the barn in order to try and warm him up. Not knowing what to do Rose brought James to his grandfather house. He ended up giving them cash and told them never to come back again.

Rose took James and went to British Columbia looking for a place that they could live in peace. Rose remembered her father talking of quarries in the Northern frontiers and she figured that would be a good place for them to start looking. Making it to a quarry, they met a man named Smitty who was the foreman. That is when Rose gave James the name Logan to hide his true identity.

By the second summer there Logan was providing for both Rose and himself. He had trained himself to be a fine hunter and he also worked hard at the quarry. Smitty even gave him a new job in demolitions. Shortly after that Smitty asked Rose to marry him. The proposal upset Logan but he finally realized that Smitty did indeed love Rose. Logan then helped Smitty get money for tickets away from the quarry.

Before Smitty and Rose could leave Dog showed up. At the request of Logans grandfather he was to kill Logan and Rose for what he believed they did. In the fight that followed Rose tried to break it up but was struck by Logans claws and died. After that, not being able to live among people for what he did he left the camp and went off into the wilderness to live alone.


thats the beginning of wolverines origin? ive never heard of this, ive never read this. i stumbled upon this on the internet. if u have heard of this, in which comic does all of this occur? i seriously think this is suspicious.

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Hosp
06-04-2003, 01:00 PM
Looks like fan fiction to me. And Logan's mutant ability is his healing power and not the claws. The claws are part of his ademantiam fusion with his skeleton during the Weapon X experiments.

Yeah, after writing that even I can't believe I've gotten laid.

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JustJon
06-04-2003, 01:03 PM
Yes, you just quoted the story of the Wolverine: Origins mini-series from last year. You can find the trade paperback in any bookstore or comic book store.

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Hosp
06-04-2003, 01:16 PM
And you knowing that it's surprising that you get laid on a regular basis.

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JustJon
06-04-2003, 02:07 PM
and you don't. :)

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Se7en
06-04-2003, 03:00 PM
Looks like fan fiction to me. And Logan's mutant ability is his healing power and not the claws. The claws are part of his ademantiam fusion with his skeleton during the Weapon X experiments.

Nope. As Jon pointed out, that was the Wolverine: Origins miniseries. You can buy it in TPB format. Frankly, I think the miniseries was somewhat mediocre. It had a strong opening, weak middle, and good finish, but it wasn't quite what I wanted it to be. Oh, and the claws ARE part of his mutant powers - he's apparently always had them (they were just made of bone before the adamantium bonding).

And I do get laid regularly, surprisingly, although sadly the quality of women is not what it should be.

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Tall_James
06-04-2003, 03:07 PM
I knew this and I too get laid on a regular basis. (Even though my beautiful wife calls me a geek. But what does she know...she married me!)

So your blanket stereotyping of comic fans is WRONG !!!!

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JustJon
06-04-2003, 04:38 PM
Oh, and the claws ARE part of his mutant powers - he's apparently always had them (they were just made of bone before the adamantium bonding).
This idea was introduced when Magneto ripped the Adamantium out of his body.

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Def Dave in SC
06-04-2003, 04:57 PM
Shit, I remember when Magneto did that. It was un fucking believable.

Sorry, about that. Back on topic...

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ToddEVF
06-04-2003, 05:00 PM
wow, thats very deep. Logan. . . James. . . claws part of mutation. . . ::head explodes::

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Rancor6666
06-05-2003, 05:15 AM
marvel did a mini series called origins. they did wolvie, hulk, and a couple others. yes its not made up. wolvie is over 200 and the comic is a 5 part series thats pretty good. you see wolvie when he was born-goes mutant-gets hardcore- & fuks up sabertooth before they both went into the wepon X program and alpha force. it was free at Marvel.com dotcomics section.

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furie
06-05-2003, 06:30 AM
Explaining wolverine's origin ruins the character. They should have left him a enigma.

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TheMojoPin
06-05-2003, 08:58 AM
Yeah. I didn't bother reading "Origin", and I probably never will. It was more fun not knowing. And didn't this thing negate Barry Windsor-Smith's "Weapon X" story? If so, THAT's a crime in and of itself.

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FMJeff
06-05-2003, 12:54 PM
Explaining wolverine's origin ruins the character. They should have left him a enigma.


After a while the myster becomes extremely annoying...

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Se7en
06-05-2003, 01:37 PM
Yeah. I didn't bother reading "Origin", and I probably never will. It was more fun not knowing.

The problem wasn't so much the type of origin they gave him, but rather the fact that they built him up for 25 years to be this mysterious character with a past even he wasn't sure of. It built up a mystery & myth amongst fans, which eventually grew so big that Marvel became a victim of its own character's success. There are always going to be a portion of the fans who will hate the origin, not so much because of how it was done, but rather that it was done at all. They'd be disappointed no matter what was written.

I don't really quite understand that, because the origin of the character doesn't so much interest me near as much as the character he is now. Besides, it's not as if Marvel has ruined the character by showing his early years - he's still going to be the same entertaining anti-hero as before.

BTW, speaking of comic origins, I must say that one of my all-time favorite (perhaps my favorite, period) comic character origins has to be the Joker, from Alan Moore's beyond excellent "The Killing Joke". It's an origin without being a definitive origin (even the Joker admits that he remembers his own creation differently at times), but Moore does the unimaginable by giving us the "origin" of, arguably, the most insanely evil creation in all of comics and manages to give the character such pathos that the reader can't help but feel COMPASSION for him. That, my friends, is why Moore fucking owns pretty much everyone's ass in the world of sequential art.

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TheMojoPin
06-05-2003, 02:42 PM
You're right about "Killing Joke", Se7en. THAT should have been thr crux of the first Batman film. It's perfect.

But I had no problem with the drawn-out nature of Logan's mysterious past. Only getting bits and pieces was part of the fun. Without it, he's just a hairy midget with claws and a temper. Setting this origin is going to reign in any writers that try to tackle him, and severely hinder their ability to make his stories as wide-ranging and global as they have been in decades past.

Where Marvel REALLY shot themselves in the foot was by making practically EVERY new X-Men in the 80's and 90's have a mysterious past. Phoenix (II), Cable, Pyslocke, Bishop, Gambit, Gateway, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Rogue, WHATEVER...everyone seemed to have a goddamn "shrouded in mystery" past.

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phixion
06-05-2003, 03:07 PM
everyone seemed to have a goddamn "shrouded in mystery" past.



well mutants in general is a massive cop out. 'i was born with these powers' how gay is that? and im a huge x-men fan but i hate that that cna b an origin of powers. i mean the radioactive spider wsa kind of inventive, teh gamma bomb was cool. i understand that marvel really loved radiation in the 60's and they sometimes overused it...but to just be born with powers is gay, so characters shrouded in mystery is similar to that. x-men was amazing for what they did in characterization, beautiful stories, lushus settings. i mean the battle on the darkside of the moon was absolutely gorgeous. and powers the x-men have are inventive, and the idea that they hafta work to control those powers makes them more human, and sort of offsets the cop out origin of powers. in my opinion anyway.

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ToddEVF
06-05-2003, 03:32 PM
speaking of comic origins, I must say that one of my all-time favorite (perhaps my favorite, period) comic character origins has to be the Joker, from Alan Moore's beyond excellent "The Killing Joke".

I totally agree, that was an amazing "origin" from stand-up comedian to theif, it was wonderful

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Se7en
06-05-2003, 06:34 PM
well mutants in general is a massive cop out. 'i was born with these powers' how gay is that? and im a huge x-men fan but i hate that that cna b an origin of powers


I don't know if I would call it "gay", but it certainly is lazy. Hell, Stan Lee admitted that back when the X-Men were created, it was getting hard to think up new & bizarre ways to give their super-heroes powers, so he came up with a simple creative crutch: just have the bastards born with their powers due to mutation. Lazy, yes, but to their credit, over the years they have worked to make things interesting by going into the genetics of mutants and bringing up issues of evolution.

That said, the "secondary mutation" idea that was started a couple years ago is fucking GHEY as shit. You already have mutant powers, okay, you don't need to give them MORE mutant powers, Marvel brass.

The thing that always pissed me off more about the X-Men was when they would whine and cry about not being accepted by the masses......as they sat in their multi-million dollar mansion, or flew around in their super high-tech private jet, or played around with advanced alien Shiar technology. THAT pissed me off more than anything. "Oh, we live such a tortured existence....to cheer us up, let's go spend some more of Xavier's billions...." I can buy the Morlocks bitching - those bastards had to live in the sewers. The X-Men were the pretty people whining about their problems.

The worst offense (in my book) was from Claremont's last run on the major X-books ( around 3 or 4 years ago). He had some of the X-Men (Jean, Rogue, etc.) bitching again about how the world is against mutants........as the team was vacationing on a beach overseas (I want to think in Spain).

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phixion
06-05-2003, 07:00 PM
That said, the "secondary mutation" idea that was started a couple years ago is fucking GHEY as shit. You already have mutant powers, okay, you don't need to give them MORE mutant powers, Marvel brass.



se7en, please explain...see i loved the comic when i was a kid and its always been in my heart but the Age of Apocalypse really pissed me off.(oh why couldnt jim lee just live there) se i stopped colecting x-men (and maximum clonage in Spidey pissed me off even more than that, so my two comic staples were gone and i stopped collecting,'cept for those in the 50 cent box those are always good comics)
anyway, i like to keep informed so let me know about the 2nd mutation.
and your comment on them bitching while they squandered xaviers dough was good. but those fuckers earned it....anyone who had his admantium torn from his bones or infected with a brood egg deserves that kinda life.

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JustJon
06-05-2003, 07:38 PM
Wolverine's "mystery" allowed writers to completely fuck around and ret-con his "origin" time and time again. The only way for Marvel to have a true, linear storyline with Wolvie is to do a solid origin story.

And I've been picking up the recent X-trades, and I've gotta agree the Morrison/Claremont 2nd mutation is bullshit. Lame.

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TheMojoPin
06-05-2003, 07:54 PM
Wolverine's "mystery" allowed writers to completely fuck around and ret-con his "origin" time and time again. The only way for Marvel to have a true, linear storyline with Wolvie is to do a solid origin story.

I actually thought that was one of his best strengths. "Is it real? Is it not?" Kept you guessing...and it allowed the writers to go hogwild. You didn't know what was iamgined or a false memory or real. It added to the fact that this was a character who was very much "lost" on a number of levels. Who wants logic and strict, linear stories? It's a goddamn comic book. And a pretty corny one at that, too.

And while the secondary mutation schtick is VERY ghey, Morrison's run on the book is outstanding. It's got me reading a title that's been pretty fucking unreadable for almost ten years now.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 6-5-03 @ 11:58 PM

Se7en
06-05-2003, 08:04 PM
anyway, i like to keep informed so let me know about the 2nd mutation.


I don't know who came up with the idea - maybe Morrison, maybe Claremont, maybe the Marvel braintrust itself, but apparently the normal mutant powers that everyone's had just weren't enough anymore (for the creative team, that is), so essentially every mutant on Earth has the potential to go through a SECONDARY mutation - a further mutation from the initial one. A few of the X-Men have experienced this already: Beast has mutated into a decidedly feline humanoid, Emma Frost can transform into a diamond form, and Bobby "Iceman" Drake seems to be slowly turning into a being of pure, living ice. Rogue is probably the worst, IMO - her secondary mutation allows her to essentially have the powers of EVERYONE she's ever touched (and 'drained'), which means that if she feels like it, she can pop out some claws like Wolverine or fire off optic blasts like Cyclops.

The actual explanation as to how the 2ndary mutations occur is fine - I mean, this is science we're talking about. If an organism has mutated once, why not again? I would argue that it might be unlikely, though, that an organism continually mutates itself in one generation alone, but these are the funny books after all.

The whole reason why it's so ghey is because it's totally unnecessary and, in some cases, it hurts things by screwing with the characters or, such as with Rogue, making them just unbelievable and way, WAY too powerful.

But I would recommend that you listen to the sage advice of our colleagues here in this thread. The X-books are actually worth picking up again, thanks largely in part to Grant Morrison, who is doing a fantastic job with the New X-Men comic (making up for the abortive runs of Claremont and others). Uncanny X-Men is decent as well, and for a different kind of comic (but prominently featuring X-Men "universe" characters) I suggest you give "Exiles" a look.


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ADF
06-05-2003, 08:25 PM
It sounds like something out of <i>Wuthering Heights</i>.

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06-05-2003, 09:11 PM
THIS IS AMAZING..... I CAN KEEP READING THIS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!


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JustJon
06-05-2003, 10:35 PM
My biggest prob with all the secondary mutations is everyone is too fucking powerful. A team of gods who can do anything fight... well, how many villains from the Marvel Universe can really stand up to them now?

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phixion
06-06-2003, 08:23 AM
how many villains from the Marvel Universe can really stand up to them now?



i agree, they r too powerful. its getting like DC. heroes that are way too powerful than the enemies. if rogue can use all the powers that she's ever used... i dont think anyone can stop her. but if this is the case...what of Magneto? i bet his 2nd mutation should b kick ass, the same for Prof X. (dont tell me that he still doesnt have his powers back.) anyway thanx for th info, se7en

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JustJon
06-06-2003, 08:51 AM
Morrison's run on the book is outstanding.
If you think Morrison's is that good, read Millar's Ultimate X-Men. So much fucking cooler.

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TheMojoPin
06-06-2003, 01:14 PM
I liked the first TPB of "Ultimate", but the rest didn't too it for me...felt too "forced", like there was definitely someone over his shoulder saying, "don't do this, remember to put this in, etc." so that it tied in more with the films. I enjoyed his run on "The Authority" much more.

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Se7en
06-06-2003, 04:32 PM
They are far too powerful. That's why I enjoyed the Nova arc (while there are other X-Men fans who didn't appreciate it at all), because we were finally given a villain who could actually kick the X-Men's collective asses, with little effort.

I actually collect Ultimate X-Men. Generally, I like the comic, although I would have to say I like Morrison's "New X-Men" a bit more. The Magneto storyline, while good, has kind of run its course with me as a reader.

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