What causes a lack of motivation?

[fluffernutter]

I know, I have to get stuff done animation wise and have ideas galore but when it comes to putting the pen to paper to come up with something, I have no push to do it.

A few weeks ago when I was working on the Matrix opening, I was jacked full of energy and eager to get it done and couldn't wait to see it finished. I feel in some ways like that took a lot out of me and this past week I had a goal to get my fucking website done which i have been slacking hardcore on. I plugged in about 6 hours on Monday and that was about it. I did get a lot done however.

I saw a dealie on the news about this and the weatherologist said it may have to do with the weather but I hate to have that as an excuse. Not like I animate/create/draw outside. I am pretty much closed into my studio with not much daylight anyways.

Just wondering what you HK or anyone for that matter may know about this. Is it a slump? Is it the weather? Psychological perhaps? Could I have totally blown my wad on my last piece and just not worked up the energy for more work yet?

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[Heavy]

What causes a lack of motivation?

Disinterest.

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[TooCute]

It could very much have to do with the weather.

Seasonal affective disorder ("SAD") is particularly common in northern European countries (eg like the Scandanavian countries) where during the winter the nights are very long and there may not be many hours of sunlight. It can cause symptoms of depression (forgive me I do science not psychology so I stole the symptoms from http://www.sada.org.uk/

Sleep problems:Usually desire to oversleep and difficulty staying awake but, in some cases, disturbed sleep and early morning wakening
Lethargy:
Feeling of fatigue and inability to carry out normal routine
Overeating:
Craving for carbohydrates and sweet foods, usually resulting in weight gain
Depression:
Feelings of misery, guilt and loss of self-esteem, sometimes hopelessness and despair, sometimes apathy and loss of feelings
Social problems:
Irritability and desire to avoid social contact
Anxiety:
Tension and inability to tolerate stress
Loss of libido
Decreased interest in sex and physical contact
Mood changes
In some sufferers, extremes of mood and short periods of hypomania (overactivity) in spring and autumn.

So anyway, what I CAN tell you about it is that it is caused by a lack of sunlight. In your brain, you have a "pineal gland". Basically the deal is, light hits your eyes, the signal goes to your hypothalamus (well I mean a signal also travels your optic nerve and lets you see, but that's not relevant to this), and then it travels on to your pineal gland, which is buried all the way deep in your brain.

When it gets these signals that your eyes are seeing light (sunlight, presumably, but extremely bright artificial lights are apparently extremely effective in combatting SAD too - you just sit in front of a box that has a real bright light for a couple of days!), it takes a neurotransmitter (a chemical that's used by nerves to communicate with each other) called serotonin (which your brain actually makes from tryptophan - you know, that amino acid everyone says is in turkey, and that supposedly makes you sleeeeeeeeepy?) and with a little bit of chemistry turns it into another neurotransmitter called melatonin.

So if you're following, what you've got is during the day, your melatonin levels will go up (more light, more pineal gland stimulation, it makes more melatoning out of serotonin) and during the night (when it's dark, unless you're like up north in th esummer where it's light all day!) they go down. During the winter (or maybe springs like ours), the days are shorter and you're not getting as much exposure to bright sunlight and so your melatonin levels are lower than in the summer.

Melatonin basically acts to keep your "biological clock", in terms of setting your circadian rhythms and whatnot (ie feeling sleepy/awake, etc.). Clearly it's not the only factor, but apparently it afffects stuff. You always hear about melatonin supplements; from what I gather their effectiveness varies depending on the situation. (the idea being you just take melatonin orally so that your body is 'tricked' into thinking that it was in the sun and your pineal gland made a lot of melatonin)

Okay so the really cool thing about the pineal gland is the way it functions in other animals. The most famous example is the tuatara (a really super primitive lizard from new zealand) - check it out
<img src="http://ebiomedia.com/gall/eyes/images/pineal.jpg">

See that light spot in the middle of the top of its head? That's its pineal eye. It's right up there just under the skin, so that it can collect info about the light outside directly, as opposed to having to have the light go through the eyes to the hypothalamus first.

Lampreys <img src="http://www.niwa.co.nz/rc/freshwater/fishatlas/images/lampreymouth.jpg"> also have very obvious pineal eyes (and if you cut them open you'll see the huge dark mass of the pineal gland). I wonder if the Sarlacc in the Pit of Carkoon has one, too...

Birds also have pineal glands that aren't buried deep withing their brains; theirs are just un

[Heavy]

Exactly

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[reeshy]

What causes a lack of motivation?


I don't care.

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[ToddEVF]

the lack of motivation could be from a lack of inspiration. I know thats what gets me all the time, it goes hand-in-hand. If i'm motivated i have inspiration, but if i'm not inspired i'm not motivated. could be a disorder or just a simple lack of inspiration

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[FUNKMAN]

the 3 W's

Weed

Weather

Whacking Off

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[Bob Impact]

What causes a lack of motivation?

Jack off webmasters bothering you to do Flash intros to State University Websites.

What? Too inside?

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[SatCam]

Take a day off, and while you're working listen to some high energy music pop music!!!!!! AND LOTS OF COFFEE!!!!!! AND DR. PEPPER!!!!!!!! AND SEX!!!!!!!!

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This message was edited by JustJon on 6-10-03 @ 1:59 PM

[fluffernutter]

Thank you Too Cute, that was incredibly informative.

I would get the state university animations done if the webmaster :cough:HACK: would not have drifted off when I was asking about it.

Coffee is accessible. Dr. Pepper is accessible. No one wants to have sex with me so that is out of the question. Like Meatloaf said, Two Out of Three Ain't Bad.



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[FUNKMAN]

No one wants to have sex with me

that's where the 3rd W comes in...

:)

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[HordeKing1]

This is most definitely NOT "Seasonal Affetive Disorder" (More accurately called "Seasonal Pattern Specifier for Mood Disorder") b/c at least so far it's very short term, it isn't accompanied by major depression, and there has been no indication of prior similar episodes. Lack of motivation may be a symptom of depression but it isn't sufficient by any stretch of the imagination for a diagnosis.

In essence the diagnosis requires 4 criteria to be met of which the most important, and most obvious is # 1.

1. Recurrent temporal relationship b/w onset of mood disorder and a particular time of year (NOT DAY, TIME OF YEAR - it's over a season, not a day or week)

2. Full remission (or flip from mania to depression for ex) when the session changes every year

3. 2 episodes of major depressive disorder occured w/in the past 2 years during the temporal season, and there have been no noseasonal major depression disorder.

4. Seasonal major depressive episode outnumber nonseasonal major depression that may have occured during the person's lifetime.

American Psychiatric Asosciation: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 2000.
(p. 425-427).

Seasonal Pattern Specifier for Mood Disorder more typically occurs in the winter, much more rarely in the spring and summer.

Ironically, the DSM-IV TR, is dedicated to "A man for all seasons."


Most likely Fluff, you're tired, or burned out, and/or need a break or vacation. Needless to say, stress plays a major role in causing motivation or lack thereof.

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[monsterone]

fluffer

i'll give you my situation and you can see it it applies to you.
in high school i'd always be drawing, painting, etc... went to college for art and found my self only wanting to do this stuff if it was a course i was talking. i loved to do it and it brought me great joy, but i didn't do it otherwise.

now i do graphic design for 10+ hrs a day and it's great and fulfilling. but i tried to sit down after work and tried to learn new stuff, and at first it happened. and gradually, i just didn't happen anymore.

i had to take a course at a local college to get me back on track and it helped out. i'm learning a lot, i have a teacher to reference and ask questions, and peers to critique my work.

as for my earlier ambitions in art, i've always said i want to make enough money to have leisure time to do those things. and i hope someday i am able to do that.

previously, i'd draw everyday and i never do now. i still remeber the enjoyment i found in it, but after working all day it still seems like more work. i only hope i can do what i enjoy for work and still do it in leisure time as leisure.

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-kennyallenforprez-

[fluffernutter]

Thanks HK. I am most certainly not depressed. I got that cleared up. I do however recall last summer I was "slacking" a little bit. I found my clipboard on my fridge that I wrote up LAST YEAR:

Weeknights: Bed by 12 Mid
Wakey Wakey by 8
1/2 hour excercise fat ass!
1/2 hour walking fat ass!
WEBSITE done by 7/31
Up by 8/12

Reach Your Goals!
Set Standards High!
Abolish Laziness!!!

Maybe it does fall within the season then. Come fall and winter I got a lot of stuff done. I mean I just looked back at what I have done be it sigs or illustrations or animations I did get a lot done during the fall and winter.

I guess bottom line then is I need drive. Fuck the weather. Fuck the distractions. I know what I have to get done and I can do it. I need to focus more.

I need to buckle down casue I'll be damned if I am like this next year.

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[ADF]

I was all set to answer your question.. but, eh.. what's the point?

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[TooCute]

HK: I'm no psychologist, but you are, so maybe you can answer my question - since I understand some of the biology underlying SAD, it seems like weather could affect your mood even if it wasn't to the point of being diagnosable as SAD. I don't know how much of a lack of melatonin it takes, and how long it takes for that deficiency to accumulate enough to affect your mood - not necessarily depression, but any effects at all?

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[HordeKing1]

Sure, weather affects mood in some people, (particularly dark, dreary days when the barometric pressure is low). However, this isn't nearly sufficient for a diagnosis of SAD which requires 2 years of temporal seasonal depression (or mania) plus it has to last for the season, not just a few days. It's most common during the winter months, and I've heard it referred to as the winter "blahs."

In the absence of this, a diagnosis can't be made. The feelings are better described as feeling down or blue, w/o being depressed. Some sadness and mood change occurs during every persons life.

For a diagnosis of SAD to be made 2 years with similar symptoms have to occur, as well as the other conditions listed above.

Remember, that there are many interrealted factors to consider. A person genetically predisposed to develop SAD may not do so in the absence of a triggering event, which usually results from stress or stressors in the environment. Similarly, a person who has a tremendous amount of stress may never develop any type of mood disorder. It's a complex mix of genetics and environment and there is indication that each can change the other. In the June 2nd issue of Time Magazine, they spoke of some fairly up-to-date research showing that environment can cause changes in genes! (The change isn't a change in the DNA of course, but it's a change in that a switch that was off may become turned on.)



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[TooCute]

I didn't say anything about SAD. I'm just saying, isn't it possible that extended bouts of gloomy weather can cause a decrease in your motivation. Forget about diagnosable depression. I'm just talking a generalized case of the blahs that make you not want to do anything. I know that I've felt this way.

And if this is the case, then the weaherman who said it could have to do with the weather (the weather that affects serotonin and all that) was right, right?

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Hunger

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[HordeKing1]

Sure, weather affects mood in some people, (particularly dark, dreary days when the barometric pressure is low).

The feelings are better described as feeling down or blue, w/o being depressed. Some sadness and mood change occurs during every persons life.

So yes, extended periods of bad weather can give some people the blahs. But the blahs, isn't a diagnosable condition.




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[TooCute]

Yeah but fluff wasn't asking about a diagnosable condition, right? Just a general lack of motivation to do stuff recently? whatever. tomorrow I might actually do stuff.

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[fluffernutter]

Just a general lack of motivation to do stuff recently?

That was my original question but you both helped in clearing things up as to what it may be. I thank you both.

On a positive note though, I am feeling a bit more motivated today but things just get in the way of a productive day. A postive reconcilliation with my estranged mother weighs a bit over my artwork today I would think. Now that that burden is gone, I am feeling very moved to work on things today.

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[Robyblaze]

weed

[FUNKMAN]

weed



that is the 1st W

Madone!, does anyone read my posts anymore...
:)

like i don't know the answer...
:(



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[DC Reed]

Dexidrine will change that little attitude of yours Fluff. 3 pills and your concentration is as focused as a laser beam! How do you think im gonna get through my finals this and next week? You guessed it, mind enchancing drugs. GOOOOO DEXIDRINE!

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[mikeyboy]

A suggestion for text under DC Reed's name: "The D is for Dexedrine"

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[SatCam]

So now you're just pulling old clip boards out of your fridge? Weird.

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[fluffernutter]

So now you're just pulling old clip boards out of your fridge? Weird.

I found it weird also. i completely forgot I had this thing and I found it while looking through a stack of old magazines the other day.

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[The Chairman]

This is most definitely NOT "Seasonal Affetive Disorder" (More accurately called "Seasonal Pattern Specifier for Mood Disorder")



"More accurately" or "More Currently?"

You correctly quote right out of the DSM-IV Diagnostic Pattern Specifier for Seasonal Mood Disorder. Too Cute makes no mention of this as a possible diagnosis.

fluffernutter's post does not provide enough information for an accurate clinical diagnosis of any sort. How would we know, solely based upon the information provided, that fluff (and I'm not implying that you do) hasn't had dysthymia or a major depression in the past 2 years?

SAD most certainly exists, and just because you don't find it in your DSM-IV does not mean it does not. I dusted off my old DSM III-R and there have been modifications to many of the diagnostic criteria for Mood Disorders, and if you ask me, some might have to do with billing and insurance issues.

My hospital treats several outpatients with SAD with light boxes and several of the docs who use them find them efficacious.

That said, I would never diagnose without a full work-up, etc...

However, other things to consider are mild dysthymia (but I'll assume this has not been a longer term thing for fluff) or that he has perfectionistic propensities, which can cause crippling procrastination.

Now, to use less jargon....perhaps fluf, you're just "shot" as mentioned. Or, as also mentioned, you may need more frontal lobe stimulation (ok more jargon) and a stimulant might help (I wouldn't say Dexedrine, but perhaps Adderral). But then again I am not your doctor. If you keep feeling distressed by this, talk to your doctor. I don't think reading quotes from psychiatric manuals is going to make you more motivated either.

Now as far as Too Cute's post, all I have to say is:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002BSR.01._PE_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

PS fluf: don't think I didn't notice that your old sig bore a striking resemblance to the Zoloft ads...Perhaps this is Freudian....
http://www.zoloft.com/
(edited to fix link)
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This message was edited by The Chairman on 6-10-03 @ 2:14 AM

[fluffernutter]

Well, I just fell in love with the little eggy guy and would alway get all choked up when he was all sad.

I have not been depressed in the past few years (at least I don't think) unless feelings of unacceptance, rejection and just basically feeling like I have absolutely nosocial skills defines depression. Who knows?

I am a stern perfectionist though and for instance, I was trying to figure out some javascript for my site just so i can have the fucking little thumbnail there and then "poof" you click the thumbnail and it opens a Flash movie in a Flash Player window. I read a little in my Flash Bible, get frustrated and scream and then give up and try to figure out other ways to do it. I want the shit to look perfect and when it doesn't, I fear asking for help for the fear of looking stupid.

I also know how I can look stupid by NOT asking as well. I always feel like I have to do it myself. Like no one else knows what the fuck is going on in my head and is so far beyond comprehending what the hell I am thinking and I feel that asking for help is a sign that I don't know what i am doing. This is something i definitely have to get over if I do by chance pitch a great story idea to a Nickelodeon or a PBs and I have to oversee others who are taking my characters and animating them and creating them essentially for my show/series/whatever. That could become potentially dangerous. I do eventually get turned around in my thinking and wind up "playing well with others".

Strangely enough I don't have a doctor and really have no one except for my family to ask about any kind of medication if I should happen to need any. I don't think it has gotten to this point yet as I have been feeling a bit more "driven".

I spoke with another artist friend of mine tonight and he explained that he just watches other art related work. Be it anime or cartoons, he watches and then comes out of his funk.

Thanks Chairman for your insight into this.

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[HordeKing1]

More accurately" or "More Currently?"


More accurately as it is a better description of the problem. Similarly, dissociative identity disorder is a much more descriptive and better term for the antiquated diagnosis of multiple personality disorder.

As I'm sure you know, having "dusted off" your DSM-III, (published in 1980 w/the revision published in 1987, it is an antiquated diagnostic tool, refering to such things as homosexuality as psychopathological. The DSM-IV, although hardly a perfect diagnostic tool, is a quantum leap ahead of the DSM-III.


You correctly quote right out of the DSM-IV Diagnostic Pattern Specifier for Seasonal Mood Disorder. Too Cute makes no mention of this as a possible diagnosis.

No, I did not quote, I summarized. TC didn't mention the correct diagnosis b/c she like most people aren't aware that it is not the correct term (just as people still call did, mpd).


fluffernutter's post does not provide enough information for an accurate clinical diagnosis of any sort. How would we know, solely based upon the information provided, that fluff (and I'm not implying that you do) hasn't had dysthymia or a major depression in the past 2 years?

You're right that not enough information is provided to say with certainty what Fluff has, IF ANYTHING, bit basaed on the information provided, major depression and dysthemia can be ruled out. This incident is recent and has lasted a matter of days. Even if it was weeks, I'm sure you know that dysthymia requires depressed mood (more often than not) for two full years. Fluff has also said that he isn't depressed.

Thanks HK. I am certainly not depressed. A short while ago he was doing fine. A diagnosis of depression can't be made until someone meets the relevant criteria for at least 2 weeks. That's not the case here.


SAD most certainly exists
Although a rose by any name would smell as sweet, that is not the correct term for the condition. If your hospital is billing out under the old drg code I'm surpirsed they're getting reimbursed.


My hospital treats several outpatients with SAD with light boxes and several of the docs who use them find them efficacious.

Some claim as high as a 75% success rate, but it's somewhat irrelevant here as this is definitely not a seasonal pattern specifier.



That said, I would never diagnose without a full work-up, etc...

That's correct. Note that I did not diagnose here at all, just ruled out some things that are clearly not applicable. I can tell you that you'll never suffer from vaginismus for example w/o any details save knowing that you're male.

For a definitive diagnoses, of what is the problem, a clincial workup is always needed and that includes a physical examination as well, as often psychiatric symptoms are caused by general medical conditions, or by interactions to drugs.


I don't think reading quotes from psychiatric manuals is going to make you more motivated either.

I find that people are often hugely relieved to know that they don't have a particlar condition. This alone is often enough to get them moving again b/c paralysis can come from fear of a psychiatric or phsycial problem.

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[HordeKing1]

FLUFF - Feelings of "unacceptance, rejection and just basically feeling like I have absolutely no social skills" can mean a lot of things, especially a low self esteem or even perhaps a social phobia, but they do not describe depression.

Being a perfectionist isn't a bad thing. It doesn't mean necessarily that you have OCD or an obsessive personality. You like to be thorough and "perfect" and it makes you frustrated when it doesn't go as you planned.

It's really important to note that you wrote, that your perfectionism doesn't paralyze you (although it may make you scream in frustration). Rather you consulted your source material and tried to figure out a different way to do it.

Fear of asking for help is a problem - albiet not necesarily anything to do with psychology. There are many people who want to help, professionally, personally, and/or who share similar hobbies and interests. If you're afraid to ask for help, you deny yourself the opportunity to benefit from their experience and knowledge. What do you fear will happen if your work isn't perfect? That issue is something you might want to see a therpist about.

I do eventually get turned around in my thinking and wind up "playing well with others". That's great. It's improtant. It's something that most people have to learn to do in their professional and personal life. .

When you say you don't have a doctor are your referring to an internist or a therapist. If you don't have an internist find one immediately and have a full checkup. It may not be the most fun thing in the world but it's essential.

I would strongly suggest you don't ask family members for advice about perscription medicine, unless they are MD's and that if it's pscyhoactive medication you're thinking of, ask a psychiatrist and not just a regular MD.

Not all probelms require medication, but if your doctor recomends it, you should certainly consider it. Don't hesitate to ask if medication is necessary. Often it is not.

But I'm jumping ahead of myself. I'm delighted to read that I have been feeling a bit more "driven".

That certainly bodes well for the future and bolsters my opinion that you don't have depression brought on by the season (or anything else)

I'm confident that you'll regain your creative flow in a short time. Think of this as a temporary setback similar to writer's block.

If you continue feeling out of it however, either out of sorts physically or mentally please see a therapist. In any event see your internist for a through evaluation. You should go at least once a year.


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[TooCute]

I still don't get it.
Does this mean that unless something exists in the DSM-IV, it doesn't exist? I'm still convinced that cloudy weather makes me feel lazy and unmotivated, and I'll bet you anything that it's based on stimulation of my pineal gland.

I don't really care if it's not called Diagnostic Pattern Specifier for Seasonal Mood Disorder or Seasonal Affective Disorder or the Blahs.

It happens.

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[The Chairman]

Horde King:

I'm sorry I kept you up all night attempting to refute my post.

cK2%


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2%

[HordeKing1]

Chairman - Sorry you took my 5 minutes of corrections personally. No offense meant

Too Cute - It does not mean that you don't feel "blah" when the wheather changes. But feeling "blah" is not pscyhopathological in any sense of the word especially when the pathological diagnosis specifically requires at least 2 years of recurrent seasonal related mood change. Many medical problems (such as a wacked out thyroid or pineal gland can produce strange symptoms. That's why a medical exam should always accompany a pscyhiatric profile to rule out general medical conditions.


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[The Chairman]

Chairman - Sorry you took my 5 minutes of corrections personally.

I stand by everything I posted, so your "corrections" mean nothing.

You are a charlatan.

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[DC Reed]

I dunno if im late to the party here, but maybe your lack of motivation isnt depression at all. Maybe its ADD, its not just for kids these days you know. I never knew i had it, but it kinda hit me when I was doing great on tests but couldnt pay attention in class or force myself to do any work out side of school. Infact turned out, in an attention test, i scored in the 1% (thats bad, really bad). So maybe you had ADD, not depression.

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[HordeKing1]

Why the hostility Chairman?

You're just incognizant of the current diagnostic procedures. Since I doubt it's in your administrative duties, I don't see how it's a problem for you. I certainly don't find your incorrect terminology and assessment problematic, just not current.

I hope you don't want to make this into a big deal. As far as I'm concerned, despite your inflamatory words, I don't think this is a big deal.

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This message was edited by HordeKing1 on 6-11-03 @ 11:37 PM

[fluffernutter]

Horde King and Chairman and Too Cute, I thank you all for your professional insights into my question here and greatly took to heart a lot of what you all had to say. Granted there were some big words and abbreviations I had to comprehend, your help was greatly appeciated. Thank you all and give each other some hugs. :)

Things are cranking in my head once again and I have to just find some time to get everything down. Looks like www.pleaseforgetme.com will be a reality soon enough.

Not that I have gotten through the motivation problem, the next problem will lie in getting webspace, a domain and a host and how the HELL to get everything to cme together.

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<marquee behavior=scroll direction="left">I want to be stereotyped/I want to be classified/I want to be asked into your cliques for acceptance/I want to sell my soul/I wish I were an elistist Statistics say, chances of being gay are what, one in ten? That means there is a 40 percent chance that one of the guys in Pantera likes men. - "Hats Off

[HordeKing1]

Glad to hear it Fluff.

Hugs all around.

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[TooCute]

Can I just get something straight? Does something not exist
unless it's in the DSM-IV?

Like is it wrong for me to say that the weather makes me feel
unmotivated, because I don't fufill all the diagnostic
requirements that are in the DSM?

This message was edited by TooCute on 6-12-03 @ 12:41 AM

[The Chairman]

I'll leave everyone with this:

Being smart should come with the realization that there are far more things one does not know than they do know.

Being mature is not always needing to get the last word or repeating what has already been said.

Being a good person is appreciating the opinions, beliefs and contributions of others and not peppering what should be objective advice with personal opinions.

Being wise is being able to admit you are wrong without suffering a blow to your self esteem.

Being funny? Well that's a talent.



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2%