Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense?

[Doomstone]

I'd have to say, yes it is.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/findlaw.analysis.dean.wmd/

[ToddEVF]

ok, the way i see it. It is an impeachable offense, but he won't be impeached for it. The whole US Government wanted this war to "disarm Iraq of WOMD" but in all actuality, we have yet to find these WOMD. Sure we got rid of Saddam, and are working on getting a new government in Iraq, but we want to do this for two reasons. . . Money & Oil. We install a corrupt government that is buddy buddy with the US and we get the oil for dirt cheap along with money back from the rebuilding, then we pull out of OPEC so we don't have to deal with them banning Iraq from giving us oil and limiting the amount that gets produced. There are many other things, but now the rest of the world, except UK, hates us because we fought a war for no reason but personal gain. oh well. . . could be worse

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[FUNKMAN]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

and he didn't even get to come...

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[Bergalad]

If it is proven that Bush lied, I doubt he would let it get to impeachment. He would resign first. Again, all this assumes he, and every other top member of the Administration, to include Mr. Honesty Colin Powell, flat-out lied to the world. Is this believable? That they would go to the UN and on the world stage present knowingly incorrect and fraudulent information? This does not seem in-character to me for Bush. And once again, how do you explain Blair's own intelligence backing the US up? You think Blair would have gone along with all this? I don't. I am still reserving my final opinion on this until all the evidence, or lack thereof, is presented. If Bush lied, or was misled by the Intel Community, then I will be highly pissed. If he is vindicated, then I will laugh at all of those who blasted him. I think that's fair.

[FiveB247]

It should be. But at the same time, with a Republican led Congress, who is going to impeach him? If it turns out to be that he was misled by certain agencies, it will be a lesson to heed for the future of leading America into a war. Similar to Watergate waking up citizens to government cover-up and wrong doing, it would be a 'take notice' for citizens to question their leaders for reasons concerning war and invasion. I remeber someone commenting towards this war by saying "Iraq isn't the only nation that could use a regime change....US could as well". I wouldn't take it that far, but I feel there's nothing wrong with our government.....it's just the people we have in it. That's the problem.

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[Doomstone]

But at the same time, with a Republican led Congress, who is going to impeach him?

I think, if it turns out that no WMDs are found, or if whatever we do find contradicts the statements made by Bush to Congress and the American public, then public and media pressure SHOULD be so strong that even the Republicans currently in control of Congress can't ignore it. I know the government we have right now is corrupt as all hell, but if the people demand an impeachment, they'd have to listen, wouldn't they?

[Bob Impact]

Republicans currently in control of Congress can't ignore it. I know the government we have right now is corrupt as all hell, but if the people demand an impeachment, they'd have to listen, wouldn't they?

You seem intelligent, so please don't be this naive. Nobody in this government, Republican or Democrat, gives a shit about you or me. As far as Bush getting impeached, it would not even happen wil a democratic congress. The White House gave evidence to the congress and got approval for the war, if there were fabrications in the reports given to congress they should have caught on then, they wouldn't admit that they bought the entire thing hook line and sinker.

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This message was edited by Bob Impact on 6-8-03 @ 2:57 PM

[Doomstone]

I don't get it, maybe I am being naive thinking our government should be held accountable for their actions, but I guess that really is too much to expect.

I don't know, I just find this whole situation disturbing. What is more disturbing is that the press, including CNN, and nearly every major outlet, didn't bring these questions up when we were gearing up. It's easy to point fingers now, but where were these objections before? Where were these folks when things might have mattered? Hiding behind editors that allowed themselves to be cowed. They gave up on their journalistic integrity, as high a crime in my book as anything that Bush may have prepetrated.

But they certainly were quick to throw the "un-American" tag around at people who were asking the tough questions back then.

I am of the opinion that we went into this for reasons of our national interests, bald and cold. Bush wanted to play hardball, and he didn't have the cajones to just tell the American people that he wanted to take out Saadam to secure a non OPEC source of oil in the region for his cronies. He wanted to secure contracts for American based corporations, he wanted to show what the US could do, and reestablish the US as a credible military power, and give the defence industry a shot in the arm while doing so. It was a plethora of reasons, some of which will secure American interests for a long while, BUT he felt that he couldn't do so by showing a little intestinal fortitude, so he and his staff cooked up several sheets of onionskin reasons to peel back, as each was revealed to be false.

Much like Clinton, if he'd had the courage to simply say: "Taking out Saadam will help keep our economy from heading into the shiatter, and it will secure our interests in the Middle East to keep these brown folks from getting uppity." I would have had a bit more respect for the fella. Much like if Clinton had simply said: "Yeah, I got a blowjob, and I didn't tell you bastards, because you asked me when my WIFE was standing behind me!"

Had Bush come clean, I would have had less objections to the war. In going to war, committing lives and resources, it is despeately important to do so for the right reasons. In asking people to die, it is important that if we have to ask of them to make that kind of sacrifice, it is for a good reason. Lying about the purpose of their death, and the deaths that will be on their hands cheats them of any honor, and makes sacrifice for ignoble reasons. It's wrong. Plain and simple.

The Rah Rah Squad rallied behind him, as I knew they would, and came up with their support of an unteneable position, because it was easier than thinking. The real crime here isn't just that Bush lied, or his administration cooked the books, but that the press enabled them by their gross silence. The questions that have been raised NOW might just be too little, too late. Folks died, for the wrong reasons. And the press was just as culplable in this as Cheney or his cronies. They failed in their job, and now they are trying to make up for their lapse. Bastards.

Sorry about the rant there...

[Heavy]

We did the right thing. Get over it

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[samnyc]

Who lied? About what?

The war has already justified itself. We removed a tyrant ruler, made Iraq less welcome to terrorists, are beginning to invest in Iraq's infrastructure, negated the danger of any WMDs, and will soon set a model democratic government for other countries in the region. We also sent a message that no other country can stop us from doing what we want to do.

What's wrong with that?

[TheMojoPin]

What's wrong with that?

Well, outside of the fact that only the first of what you listed has actually happened for sure (And even that may be moot given some of the current candidates for running Iraq), nothing.

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[HBox]

The war has already justified itself


Oh. OK.

We removed a tyrant ruler


Not our job. Not enough to justify war. And he wasn't worse than some other tyrants out there.

made Iraq less welcome to terrorists,


It wasn't exactly a terrorist hotbed to begin with. Not like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. OH WAIT! They are our allies! Then its OK.

are beginning to invest in Iraq's infrastructure,


Oh, good. What other countries out there can we destroy and then "invest in their infrastructure." What the hell does that even mean anyway?

negated the danger of any WMDs

Which ones? The ones we can't find in Iraq or the REAL ones in North Korea?

and will soon set a model democratic government for other countries in the region


And if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

We also sent a message that no other country can stop us from doing what we want to do.


Oh, well then that makes all the lives lost worth it, right?

What's wrong with that?


Well, unless we want to send the message that the world is our own personal sandbox, then everything is wrong with that.

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[Bergalad]

And if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Hey, when can I see you about this bridge? Thanks to the tax cut I have a few extra dollars... ;)

[TooCute]

Hey, when can I see you about this bridge? Thanks to the tax cut I have a few extra dollars...

That you can spend on the increased city tax?

*sigh* I knew it was too good to last.

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[ToddEVF]

That you can spend on the increased city tax?

*sigh* I knew it was too good to last.


i agree, it sucks

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[ChrisTheCop]

Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense?
that would depend on what your definition of the word "is" is.

<img src="http://rfcop.50megs.com/images/aggiesox.gif">Go Saux!!! Thanx Aggie

[monsterone]

no. do you really think in a time of war, the government is going to give you the straight and narrow? that would throw strategy out the window.

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[FiveB247]

no. do you really think in a time of war, the government is going to give you the straight and narrow? that would throw strategy out the window.

Of course some info needs guarding for security purposes. But the blame would be given for the forces in pursuit of war....not protection during the war.

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[Se7en]

I don't know, I just find this whole situation disturbing. What is more disturbing is that the press, including CNN, and nearly every major outlet, didn't bring these questions up when we were gearing up. It's easy to point fingers now, but where were these objections before? Where were these folks when things might have mattered? Hiding behind editors that allowed themselves to be cowed. They gave up on their journalistic integrity, as high a crime in my book as anything that Bush may have prepetrated.

But they certainly were quick to throw the "un-American" tag around at people who were asking the tough questions back then.

Uh oh, you've figured it out.

See, there's secretly a vast RIGHT-WING bias that has been controlling the media (including the New York Times!) for the past 50 years or so. Only they hide that fact under the facade of a vast LEFT-WING bias. Ingenious, isn't it? No one suspects the real thing!

Had Bush come clean, I would have had less objections to the war.

Somehow I think that point is debatable, but fair enough. I'd have loved for Bush to be able to do that, but goddamn, the protests would have been even worse if he did.

Quote:
The war has already justified itself




Oh. OK.


Quote:
We removed a tyrant ruler




Not our job. Not enough to justify war. And he wasn't worse than some other tyrants out there.

You're absolutely right. And you know, every time I turn on the TV and see them digging up another mass Iraqi grave, filled with the bodies of thousands of Saddam's victims (which is pretty much EVERY day, Iraq seems to be one giant cemetery thanks to Hussein), I think to myself - damn this war was unjustified.

C'mon. People can scream "UNJUSTIFIED! UNJUSTIFIED!" until they're out of breath. The argument will always be ill-received by most people because Saddam was such an asshole that no one really truly gives a fuck if it we were "justified" or not in removing him.

If it turns out to be that he was misled by certain agencies, it will be a lesson to heed for the future of leading America into a war.

And that will be why he isn't impeached.

Worse comes to worse, and we find no WMD, who's going to catch the most shit? Intelligence communities. The C.I.A., etc.

And here's something which maybe some of you don't agree with - I actually don't think the administration LIED. At worst, they were given inaccurate information (which was presented to them AS accurate).

I remeber someone commenting towards this war by saying "Iraq isn't the only nation that could use a regime change....US could as well".

That was John Kerry (did you know he was a Vietnam vet?), who coincidentally, I'm sure, made those remarks (Kerry, Vietnam vet I mean) while on the campaign trail (he's a Vietnam vet running for office). Oh, and did I mention he's a Vietnam vet?

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[monsterone]

my theory has always been that the war in iraq has been to get a foot hold in the mid-east. i don't believe we could have come out, for the sake of diplomacy and public opinion, and said that forth right.


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-kennyallenforprez-

[FiveB247]

Se7en....the President is the leader of the nation. It is his job to lead the nation and the agencies within it. To take what the agencies tell him and make some sort of coherent action with them. Bush was not some innocent bistander who was simply misled by agencies. He was out campaigning and riling up the nation in pusuits of these actions. Whether you belive it to be the agencies fault or Bush or whomever....the President is accountable for the action of his nation. He is the commander in chief. Do I believe he will be impeached for such actions...of course not. Is it a questionable arguement that he could be...yes it is. It is valid if the proof turns out to be so.

And as for Kerry's comments, What should it matter if he was campaigning or a Vietnam vet? As if every other politician doesn't say or do things to be re-elected or get good PR? If anything, saying he's a Vet shoots down the old theory of, you have no say in politics unless you've served. Right?

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[Bergalad]

And here's something which maybe some of you don't agree with - I actually don't think the administration LIED. At worst, they were given inaccurate information (which was presented to them AS accurate).
Here's what Powell said over the weekend:
"In the presentation I gave before the United Nations Security Council, I spent four whole days and nights at the CIA going over all the intelligence in order to make sure that what I presented was going to be solid, credible, representing the views of the United States of America, and I stand behind that presentation," he said.
Here's the link http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/08/sprj.irq.main/index.html.
I can't believe Powell, who fought so hard to keep the peaceful diplomatic option open for so long would have lied to the world. I just don't believe it. Cheney, Rice, or Bush maybe, but not Powell. That is why I believe the Administration when they said the WMD's were there. Powell is the face of integrity and credibility in this government, and if he lied to us, then we're all fucked.
In this same article, Dick Gephardt says:
"We'll have an investigation in the Congress," said Gephardt, a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination. "We should. You should, after any war, review what happened, what the intelligence was and whether things were done right."

"But," he said, "there is long, consistent, clear evidence that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. And I'm still convinced that we are going to find them."
I applaud Dicky for breaking with the Party line and rising above the accusations. So let's not rush to impeachment just yet, alright? I highly recommend everyone read this article fully, as it is pretty good for CNN (as far as reporting both sides).

[Bill From Yorktown]

that would depend on what your definition of the word "is" is.


Good one Chris the Cop - the sentiment I was going to post, but yours was more sucinct.


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[silera]

Powell presented evidence that was later discovered to be false.


So where are we now?

It's not simply the presence of WMD's that would assure me that there was a clear and immediate need to launch an unprecedented preemptive war. They didn't use them, they had no tangible terrorist links, the act of war has not dissuaded terrorist acts. In fact since the war has been "over" I think there have been about 3 terrorist attacks on US interests.

Believe what you will. I won't. Apologies and half baked scenarios will not alter the fact that this war was based on half truths and innuendo, ulterior motives, and frankly only got support because most Americans will believe anything that is fed to them and aren't educated enough to question anything especially when their hearts swell with "patriotism" or anyone even mention 911.

If I read one more statement about how this war was justified by 911, I'll fucking vomit.

If there was one thing we should have learned from 911 is that we were not prepared for the repercussions of our boggled foreign affairs policies biting us in the ass.

Way to fucking go.




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[A.J.]

Apparently, "the lying" goes back to the previous administration:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=2873

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/

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A Skidmark production.

[silera]

I read his entire statement.

He never usurped the UN's power to act, nor did he ever mention that the danger posed by Saddam was clear and immediate.

This was also 5 years ago. I fail to see how their capacity to produce WMD's could have increased in the last five years.



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[Se7en]

the President is the leader of the nation. It is his job to lead the nation and the agencies within it. To take what the agencies tell him and make some sort of coherent action with them. Bush was not some innocent bistander who was simply misled by agencies. He was out campaigning and riling up the nation in pusuits of these actions. Whether you belive it to be the agencies fault or Bush or whomever....the President is accountable for the action of his nation. He is the commander in chief. Do I believe he will be impeached for such actions...of course not. Is it a questionable arguement that he could be...yes it is. It is valid if the proof turns out to be so.

I'm not saying that he isn't accountable - I'm just saying that if worse comes to worse, everyone in the administration could say, "Look, they gave us bad intelligence. Maybe we should not have reacted to it so quickly by engaging in a war, but everything that we were given was portrayed as being accurate and we were led to believe that the WMD were there."

And unless there's some hard proof to the contrary, it would be UNBELIEVABLY difficult to prove otherwise. Thus, if there is going to be a "fall guy", it will be the intelligence community. Not only ours though - MANY intelligence communities around the globe - NOT limited to Britain & the U.S. - had info that Saddam had these weapons. Or, at least, there was no credible evidence that he got rid of them.

Do you sort of see what I'm saying? I'm not saying that he isn't accountable, but it would likely be a colossal effort to impeach him solely on the fact that it would be very difficult to gather any hard evidence that the administration knew the intel was bad and outright lied about it or fabricated it.

I suppose ultimately it DOES boil down to politics as usual in this regard: if you're conservative, you're likely to give the administration the benefit of the doubt. That's what I give them - the benefit of the doubt that they were given, if it proves out to be (and that is NOT yet proven, might I remind some of you) bad intelligence. If you're more liberal-minded, maybe you want him impeached and think he just outright lied.

And as for Kerry's comments, What should it matter if he was campaigning or a Vietnam vet? As if every other politician doesn't say or do things to be re-elected or get good PR? If anything, saying he's a Vet shoots down the old theory of, you have no say in politics unless you've served. Right?

But he's a Vietnam vet you know.

Kerry's military history is something of an inside joke with conservatives, because he uses it as his crutch. Whenever he's criticized about something - in particular, his "regime change" remarks aimed at Bush - he always defends himself by saying "I'm a Vietnam vet, I earned the right to say what I want to."

Which is true, he HAS earned that right, but again.....sort of a crutch. My dad's a Vietnam vet, yet somehow he only manages to bring up that fact if "Platoon" or "Full Metal Jacket" happens to come on the TV.

If I read one more statement about how this war was justified by 911, I'll fucking vomit.

But it WAS justified! ;)

If there was one thing we should have learned from 911 is that we were not prepared for the repercussions of our boggled foreign affairs policies biting us in the ass.

Way to fucking go.

Much cynicism in you, young one.

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[BrianTheBailBondsman]

I think it is a shame that th U.S. would even have to ask or find a reason such as WMD to over throw SadammFuckhead.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the Iraqi People seem to be cheering the U.S. for ridding them of this Monster.
They also celibrated in the U.S. so..... Made-up or not what was done was right.

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[Bill From Yorktown]

Apparently, "the lying" goes back to the previous administration:


in that case it didnt happen and we'll sweep it under the carpet. :-)

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[Doomstone]

I suppose ultimately it DOES boil down to politics as usual in this regard: if you're conservative, you're likely to give the administration the benefit of the doubt. That's what I give them - the benefit of the doubt that they were given, if it proves out to be (and that is NOT yet proven, might I remind some of you) bad intelligence. If you're more liberal-minded, maybe you want him impeached and think he just outright lied.

Ugh, this is such a broad overgeneralization and I wish people once and for all would erase the words conservative, liberal, right, left, republican, and democrat from their fucking vocabularies because it's to the point that these words are seriously impeding the free flow of ideas. Using myself as an example, I have some ideas that would be considered conservative and was once a card carrying Republican until I woke up and realized that the party that had once championed smaller government and civil liberties had done a complete 180 and become the party that's quickly leading us into an Orwellian nightmare of Big Brother government and forced Judeo-Christian morality. It's like people are willing to jump and defend anything and everything their guy does, just because it's <i>their guy</i>, and have lost any sense of personal values. Why shouldn't a conservative be outraged <i>if</i> Bush lied or fabricated intelligence in order to push his own agenda? Because he's a conservative as well, that gives him a free pass? This kind of thinking plays entirely into their hands. They don't want a population that thinks, they want to be the only ones to do the thinking. The whole black and white mentality Bush and his cronies have going - the with us or against us mentality - is so fucking dangerous because it scares people away from thinking anything that might make them feel unamerican or unpatriotic. Oppose the war - you're unamerican. Question whether the president is being honest and forthright - you're unamerican. Shut up and wave that flag like a good boy now, Papa Bush is gonna save us from all them tarrists and lead us into a brave world.

What ever happened to thinking?

[NewYorkDragons80]

Powell presented evidence that was later discovered to be false.
Shut up you racist :)

Do you also think that he should be impeached or forced to resign?

As far as the war being justified by 9/11, there is some pressure from the extreme left that is trying to prove that Bush had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and did nothing. On the other hand, it is these same people that claim a pre-emptive strike is wrong. I don't care if you're a Republican, Democrat, Reform, or Libertarian, when people Michael Moore writes a book that slams the President for not making a pre-emptive strike, then later slams the President for making a pre-emptive strike, it should make every American want to rip their hair out.

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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 6-9-03 @ 11:08 AM

[silera]

No.

I think I'd like for everyone to stop feeding me shit and calling it fiber.





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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[silera]

Damn you adding things.

I think I've posted this a million times already and it's ignored each and every time.

What the fuck happened to airport security, and customs improvements checking 100% of our incoming shipments? Where are the missile defense systems on all our passenger airplanes? Why the fuck isn't there an international database? Immigration reform?

We're starting in the wrong place. We're focusing on ifs, maybes and could bes, and on the home front we're spread open wider than a porn star gearing up for the money shot.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[A.J.]

He never usurped the UN's power to act, nor did he ever mention that the danger posed by Saddam was clear and immediate.

This was also 5 years ago. I fail to see how their capacity to produce WMD's could have increased in the last five years.


What UN power to act? That's been the problem -- they have no power.

And I agree with you that the danger was not necessarily "clear and immediate." But why was Clinton willing to act 5 years ago -- as well as a bunch of leading Democratic Senators?

Matters looked different in 1998, when Democrats were working with a president of their own party. Daschle not only supported military action against Iraq, he campaigned vigorously for a congressional resolution to formalize his support. Other current critics of President Bush--including Kerry, Graham, Patrick Leahy, Christopher Dodd, and Republican Chuck Hagel--co-sponsored the broad 1998 resolution: Congress "urges the president to take all necessary and appropriate actions to respond to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

For whatever reason, Bush decided to stop bluffing and start acting.


<IMG SRC="http://www.silentspic.com/images/sighost/ajdcsig.jpg">

A Skidmark production.

[high fly]

I don't see why anyone is surprised that Dumbya lied.
A few months ago I posted a nice list of lies that Bush has told. No one was able to rebut them.
Face it, the man simply can't be relied on to tell the truth.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Cybersoldier]

We are all in agreement the the governement are a bunch a lying jackass and can not really trust them

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thank czn
SAVE RON AND FEZ
WRITE YOUR LETTER TO SUPPORT RON AND FEZ TODAY!!!!!!!
Mel Karmazin
President and Chief Operating Officer C/O Viacom 1515 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
(212) 258-6000

[A.J.]

I think I've posted this a million times already and it's ignored each and every time.

What the fuck happened to airport security, and customs improvements checking 100% of our incoming shipments? Where are the missile defense systems on all our passenger airplanes? Why the fuck isn't there an international database? Immigration reform?


I think it's not so much the fact of getting the money as much as it's been to put the appropriate bureaucracy in place to make these things happen.

Now that DHS has been stood up, these things may finally be able to be implemented.

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A Skidmark production.

[FiveB247]

I think anyone that second guesses everything and plays both sides of the fence is wrong. People should pick their items and stick to them...follow them through either way.

As for 9-11, Bush and playing politics. It's expected in government just as all the partisan bs that interferes with actual development and growth in our nation. 9-11 was a result of policy formation, lack of previous action against terrorism as well as a breakdown in security and intelligence. If we don't attempt to understand why such things occur, it is bound to repeat itself. Previous to 9-11, it was well known, the capability as well as possibility of such things occurring, it was just never written or discussed in the US media. To simply blame 'evil doers' is not to understand why these items occur, nor is to simply start a war on terrorism. The US can attempt to create stability and peace here (which really isn't even possible), but for the rest of the world, economic spending and political containment are not possible. It also doesn't help to attempt to pick and choose the 'evil doers' according to your own interests. Such policies create more enemies and bad feelings towards the US than actually removal of terror threats.

Here's some interesting comments regarding the WMD.
http://www.cfr.org/publication.php?id=6023

http://www.waste.uk.com/gfx/bear.gif

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 6-9-03 @ 12:27 PM

[high fly]

So who's happy having a liar for a president?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[HBox]

Looks like Bush is backtracking:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/923165.asp?0cv=CA01

When did this:

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.


turn into this:

"IRAQ HAD A weapons program," Bush said. "Intelligence throughout the decade shows they had a weapons program," Bush told reporters during a meeting of his Cabinet. "I am absolutely convinced that with time, we'll find out they did have a weapons program."


??????????????????????????????????????

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[A.J.]

the Iraq regime


Read: Saddam Hussein who is no longer in power.

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A Skidmark production.

[Bergalad]

I don't know...this
"Intelligence...leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess..."

isn't so far away from
"Intelligence throughout the decade shows they had a weapons program"

The difference is that in the first it says "Iraqi regime" in the present-tense, while the second quote talks of everything in the past tense. If the second quote was in present-tense, then that would say that Iraq is STILL producing WMD, which of course is not true. It's all semantics, but technically correct. With the speeches by Powell and Rice on the talk shows Sunday, you really think they are backtracking? They are defending their actions, yes, but I don't hear anyone correcting themselves yet.

This message was edited by Bergalad on 6-9-03 @ 1:14 PM

[ChrisTheCop]

Good one Chris the Cop - the sentiment I was going to post, but yours was more succinct.

Thanx, Bill. Sometimes I'm afraid no one gets my jokes.

<img src="http://rfcop.50megs.com/images/aggiesox.gif">Go Saux!!! Thanx Aggie

[HBox]

They had said before that Iraq had WMDs. They now say that they were developing WMDs. There is a difference there. I'm not going to get into a semantical debate, but its clear that before the administration was alleging that Iraq had tem. This might be the first point where the rhetoric changes, where Bush starts saying they were developing weapons.

It's all moot until they find some proof that proves either point.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[FiveB247]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&ncid=68&e=1&u=/nyt/20030609/ts_nyt/captivesdenyqaedaworkedwithbaghdad

http://www.waste.uk.com/gfx/bear.gif

[travis151]

Doomstone you stupid dumb fuck, I can't take you lazy ass liberals anymore. Don't you worry liberals in a few months our great military and government of Ours will give a full detailed report of all the WMD. Why leak out bits and pieces when they can put out tons of information to the media and the world. Wake the f' up or get the f' out. "The U.S. always wins in the end".

Red Sox=More Better

[high fly]

Imagine being a teacher having to try to follow poor travis' poor English for page after page of a term paper or something.
Damn! And he's one of the ones I'll be relying on to pay my social security!

" and they ask me why I drink"

[shamus mcfitzy]

It wasn't exactly a terrorist hotbed to begin with. Not like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan


Don't forget the passive Irish government that lets the IRA do whatever they want. But oh yeah, they're white, they're not the enemy :)

See, there's secretly a vast RIGHT-WING bias that has been controlling the media (including the New York Times!) for the past 50 years or so. Only they hide that fact under the facade of a vast LEFT-WING bias. Ingenious, isn't it? No one suspects the real thing!


Only stupid people say our media has a Right Wing bias. The media has a pro-America bias. An undeniable one. All because our people are a stupid one in general, who don't read into things and therefore never question the bullshit sandwiches that they are fed.

So who's happy having a liar for a president?


{if this isn't meant to be sarcastic} every American since 1860 apparently (and even "Honest Abe" lied often)

And to get back to the posts topic, Bush won't get impeached because the war against Iraq was justified if only because the US felt that Iraq needed a new leader. Bush and his administration might have lied, but they lied for the right reasons i guess. It would take some petty Democrats to impeach the president for getting rid of Saddam Hussein. I'll just be happy with a real Democrat winning in 2004, aka not "Jewberman"

This message was edited by shamus mcfitzy on 6-9-03 @ 8:48 PM

[Se7en]

Imagine being a teacher having to try to follow poor travis' poor English for page after page of a term paper or something.
Damn! And he's one of the ones I'll be relying on to pay my social security!

Don't do this.

Criticize him for making an ad hominem attack, but don't ridicule him for his poor grammar. It's petty.

<img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/captainamerica.jpg" width="300" height="100">

<br><marquee behavoir=alternate>Cap sez: <b>2%</b> fat skim milk does a body good!</marquee>

[silera]

Criticize him for making an ad hominem attack, but don't ridicule him for his poor grammar. It's petty.

The thing is, when you call others stupid, it's a good idea not to sound stupid yourself.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[NascarFanNJ]

You are kidding me right? Impeach the greatest Leader of our country since FDR. America was attacked and Bush went into War mode. He did not launch 3 Tommahawks into a Camel Brothel to cover up his LYING TO CONGRESS(an Impeachable offense). If Bush lied I don't care. I thnk this country is safer now that Sadam is out of power. If you are willing to risk you life that there are no WMD's rock the fuck on, I however saw the towers burn live from Jersey City, I worked the pile looking for my Brothers,I lost 2 buddies. My kids saw my sadness,my pain my anger. You can sit with your thumb in your ass and wait for the nuke, the dirty bomb, the bio-bomb whatever. I served in the Gulf 1 with the 1st Cav. My 2 brothers are in country now. I don't care if they find wepons of mass destruction.
Lie to me Baby, North Korea has nukes get em, Syria is harboring fugitives get them as well. America has been asked time and time again to save other countries mostly from themselves now we lead the charge and its lying. Fuck That.........

You want courage? I'll show you courage you can't understand FDNY/9-11-01
343 Brotherhood

[FUNKMAN]

The thing is, when you call others stupid, it's a good idea not to sound stupid yourself


do we need to get Forrest Gump in on this discussion?


<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">

[TheMojoPin]

If Bush lied I don't care. I thnk this country is safer now that Sadam is out of power. If you are willing to risk you life that there are no WMD's rock the fuck on, I however saw the towers burn live from Jersey City, I worked the pile looking for my Brothers,I lost 2 buddies. My kids saw my sadness,my pain my anger. You can sit with your thumb in your ass and wait for the nuke, the dirty bomb, the bio-bomb whatever. I served in the Gulf 1 with the 1st Cav. My 2 brothers are in country now. I don't care if they find wepons of mass destruction.

There's been a significant amount of "nuclear materials" (ie-plutonium, waste, etc.) reported "missing" or "stolen" in Iraq since the invasion. Keep those finger in your ears.

By the way, I heard Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Better invade Zimbabwe.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 6-9-03 @ 9:42 PM

[HBox]

You are kidding me right? Impeach the greatest Leader of our country since FDR.


Thank you. I had a bad day and needed a laugh. That's gonna keep my mood up for the rest of the week.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[silera]

I have pains in my lower back.

Please sever my toes.


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<font size=3><font color=red>I can't stand myself either.</font></font></center>
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[TooCute]

I'm behind the times. When did we start using a weapons program as opposed to weapons themselves as a reason for the war?

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!! 2% !!<font color=FBF2F7>

[shamus mcfitzy]

By the way, I heard Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Better invade Zimbabwe.


I hear Canada and Zimbabwe both have black people in them.....surely they must be connected!!!!!! I'll lead our forces into Toronto!!! Long live the USA and our fearless leader!!!

[FiveB247]

Iraq has all this oil....they must use some of it for terrorism and military vehicles....so it's apparent they are mixed into the war for terror. I wouldn't be suprised to find out their "oil" was used in the planes that hit the WTC on 9-11. So I say we bomb, Mexico...they house plants that make plane parts. That's right, the same parts used in planes that hit the WTC on 9-11.

http://www.waste.uk.com/gfx/bear.gif

[TheMojoPin]

Holy balls, he actually found a link.

BURN THEM ALL!!!

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[sr71blackbird]

Just because they cant find Saddams body, doesnt mean he didnt Exist!

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[A.J.]

Better invade Zimbabwe.


But Robert Mugabe is bad isn't he?

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A Skidmark production.

[high fly]

Them Cameroonians are getting a bit uppity.
Let's bomb them.
Anything to keep our attention from the fact that the "Marshall Plan for Afghanistan" is failing miserably and the economy here at home is still in the toilet, Bin Laden may still be out there, and US forces stood by for 2 weeks while looters ransacked a nuke plant in Iraq.



" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

But Robert Mugabe is bad isn't he?

Can we say he has WMD?

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2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[high fly]

Sure, why not?
And while we're at it, we can grasp at an Al Qaida connection.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Se7en]

*looks around* Where's Mojo?

Hey, check this out, from Doomstone:


Using myself as an example, I have some ideas that would be considered conservative and was once a card carrying Republican until I woke up and realized that the party that had once championed smaller government and civil liberties had done a complete 180 and become the party that's quickly leading us into an Orwellian nightmare of Big Brother government and forced Judeo-Christian morality.


SEE?!?!?! I TOLD you there were people here who still spout this Orwellian / Big Brother / 1984 / Republicans-Ashcroft-Patriot-Act-is-are-evil-and-will-take-away-all-of-you-freedom bullshit.

See? Perfect example.


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<br><marquee behavoir=alternate>Cap sez: <b>2%</b> fat skim milk does a body good!</marquee>

[TheMojoPin]

SEE?!?!?! I TOLD you there were people here who still spout this Orwellian / Big Brother / 1984 / Republicans-Ashcroft-Patriot-Act-is-are-evil-and-will-take-away-all-of-you-freedom bullshit.


Alright then.

Methinks he was just being a bit sarcastic for dramtic effect. He was explaining how it took something drastic to turn him away from the Republican party, and I think that fits the bill. It was hardly on level with toddevf's "Nazi state" ideas. To a LOT of people out there, in ALL political parties, The Patriot Act is very scary, and it IS the very definition of Orwellian, or at least appearing that way. We have the term...we should use it when it's appropriate. The Patriot Act IS Orwellian, and it was birthed of a Republican government (Yes, the Democrats helped to vote it in...it's still a chiefly Republican-drafted piece of legislature)...and I say that even as I support much of what it allows and presses federal agencies to do.

Don't pull a FiveB, my friend. Not EVERYTHING here has to be an argument/debate. If that's why this particular person feels they can't be a part of the Republican party anymore, then so be it. We can't change that.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Se7en]

Dude, way to ruin my simple, smartass post with a serious reply.

I mean, no offense, but sometimes people are sarcastic just for the sake of being sarcastic.

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<br><marquee behavoir=alternate>Cap sez: <b>2%</b> fat skim milk does a body good!</marquee>

[FiveB247]

Hey Mojo...don't typecast me. Deeeek!

Anyone worried that the GOP has nixed a full investigation for the reason of going into Iraq? I do think they have a valid point in saying the Dems are attempting to smear them (party politics crap); but at the same time the truth needs to be shown as well as gage the intelligence community on many of their claims. I think such an investigation should be done.

http://www.waste.uk.com/gfx/bear.gif

Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 6-11-03 @ 6:58 PM

[HBox]

Let it never be said that the Republicans are a party to waste millions of dollars in a politically motivated witchhunt that eventually amounts to nothing.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[travis151]

High fly please point out my grammer mistakes. If you can find any.

Red Sox=More Better

[DarkHippie]

Just because they cant find Saddams body, doesnt mean he didnt Exist!
lol! When Rumy said this, I almost wet myself laughing. That's the kind of logic you hear while eating stirfry at a Moe. concert.

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</marquee>
<i>LABELS ARE FOR PRODUCTS, NOT PEOPLE! DON'T HUG A TREE, PLANT ONE!
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[TheMojoPin]

I mean, no offense, but sometimes people are sarcastic just for the sake of being sarcastic.


I don't even understand this human reaction called "love", and now you want me to feel THIS? I'm overloading...cannot compute...

<img src=http://www.starwars.ndo.co.uk/episodes4-6/c3p0.jpg>

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD. >> "You can tell some lies about the good times you've had/But I've kissed your mother twice and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Bergalad]

What the fuck happened to airport security, and customs improvements checking 100% of our incoming shipments? Where are the missile defense systems on all our passenger airplanes? Why the fuck isn't there an international database? Immigration reform?
Here's the answer for a couple of those:
Port Security (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89279,00.html)
Anti-Missile Systems (http://www.airsafetyonline.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi?archive=2&num=96)