Why are Mother Goose Nursery Rhymes So Violent?

[PanterA]

It's true, the more famous mother goose rhymes are violent or really sad!

here are a few examples:

THREE CHILDREN ON THE ICE

Three children sliding on the ice
Upon a summer's day,
As it fell out, they all fell in,
The rest they ran away.

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LITTLE JUMPING JOAN

Here am I, little jumping Joan,
When nobody's with me
I'm always alone

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SOLOMON GRUNDY

Solomon Grundy,
Born on a Monday,
Christened on Tuesday,
Married on Wednesday,
Took ill on Thursday,
Worse on Friday,
Died on Saturday,
Buried on Sunday.
This is the end
Of Solomon Grundy.

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HUSH-A-BYE

Hush-a-bye, baby, on the tree top!
When the wind blows the cradle will rock;
When the bough breaks the cradle will fall;
Down will come baby, bough, cradle and all.

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THREE WISE MEN OF GOTHAM

Three wise men of Gotham
Went to sea in a bowl;
If the bowl had been stronger
My song had been longer.

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THREE BLIND MICE

Three blind mice! See how they run!
They all ran after the farmer's wife,
Who cut off their tails with a carving knife.
Did you ever see such a thing in your life
As three blind mice?

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HUMPTY DUMPTY

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall;
All the King's horses, and all the King's men
Cannot put Humpty Dumpty together again.

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OLD MOTHER HUBBARD

Old Mother Hubbard;
Went to the cupboard,
To give her poor dog a bone;
But when she got there
The cupboard was bare,
And so the poor dog had none.

She went to the baker's
To buy him some bread;
When she came back
The dog was dead.

------------------------------------------------------------

JACK AND JILL

Jack and Jill went up the hill,
To fetch a pail of water;
Jack fell down, and broke his crown,
And Jill came tumbling after.

------------------------------------------------------------

SING A SONG OF SIXPENCE

Sing a song of sixpence,
A pocket full of rye;
Four-and-twenty blackbirds
Baked in a pie!

When the pie was opened
The birds began to sing;
Was not that a dainty dish
To set before the king?

The king was in his counting-house,
Counting out his money;
The queen was in the parlor,
Eating bread and honey.

The maid was in the garden,
Hanging out the clothes;
When down came a blackbird
And snapped off her nose.

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THE PUMPKIN-EATER

Peter, Peter, pumpkin-eater,
Had a wife and couldn't keep her;
He put her in a pumpkin shell,
And there he kept her very well.

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And there are many many more!

What the hell are we teaching our children?!?!?!

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[HordeKing1]

What the hell are we teaching our children indeed?

Most nursery rhymes are full of violent imagry, with the baby in the "story" often coming to harm. Think of "Rockabye Baby" (You call it Hush a Bye Baby, but the words are essentially the same). After recounting a harrowing experience in an unstable cradle apparantly located in a tree during a windstorm, it concludes "And down will come baby cradle and all."

Not very positive imagry to the child listening to these rhymes.

There is actually a big movement underway to "sanitize" the nursery rhmes and make them less violent.

For example, Instead of "Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after" some substitute, "Jack fell down and broke his pail and Jill came skipping after." Weak.

I'm unaware if anyone has done any studies showing nursery rhymes to be frightening to children. I think that as little kids, when we're read nursery rhymes, we're more often soothed by the sound of our parents voice, and don't really understand the words.

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[reeshy]

There is actually a big movement underway to "sanitize" the nursery rhmes and make them less violent.

"Pussification of America-Pussification of America"

God-how I hate PC!!!!

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[BrianTheBailBondsman]

After seeing it like that Dice Clay's versions arn't so bad after all.

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[HordeKing1]

I prefer the Andrew Dice Clay versions myself.

Speaking of "sanatizing" childrens entertainment, the old fairy tales have also been attacked at being too violent and scary for kids. Hansel and Gretel involves a father, a wicked stepmother (very common element), getting lost in the woods, finding a "kindly" stranger who turns out to want to kill and eat them and her ultimate murder by the kids.

I don't know how old that story is, but it's been around for quite a while. I doubt anyone's been irreprerably harmed by hearing this "scary" story.

An afternoon of typical kids cartoons are more violent, contain more adult themes, and have scarier images than this tale.

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[sr71blackbird]

Ring around the rosey
A pocket full of posies
Ashu ashu
We all fall down!

This was actually a rhyme about the Black Death plauge of Europe!

You get bit by an infected flea, and a red ring forms around the bite area. At the time, people believed if you had posie flowers in your pocket, that it would ward off the plage (wrong). As the disease progressed, you started sneezing (Ashu ashu -- not "ashes") and then you die (fall down)

Nice huh? Well, it was kind of informative and it did spread the concept of the symptoms of the plague and what was considered the best defence against it. Most of these rhymes have some kind of meaning beyond just a play on words. Humpty Dumpty was a political figure that the press made into a rhyme on his name "Humphrey" and he was known to straddle issues (like being "on the fence" or wall) and I guess he made a bad decision!

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[TooCute]

Most of the "violent" nursery rhymes (nobody knows for sure
who mother goose is) were originally not meant for children -
they were satirical songs sung in bars and the like (eg humpty
dumpty was about some dude I don't even know when who was
first friends with the king but then fell out of favor and
subsequently couldn't get back in with the king, or a version of
pop goes the weasel was about a tavern called "the eagle") -
also some of them just teach kids stuff (like solomon grundy -
the days of the week). Mostly I think they've become more used
for kids than anything else because apparently learning rhymes
and stuff is good mental stimulation? What do I know about kids
though?

I still remember my huge mother goose book, and multiple fairy
tale books like the brothers Grimm and stuff.


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[HordeKing1]

TC - Ever see an illustrated Grimm book. Pretty scary stuff for kids.

Kids love repitition. Parents read the kids rhymes and fairy tales b/c they feel that is what they're supposed to read them. The kids like the comfort that the repititive reading brings and eventually begin to prefer these books to others.

My 2 oldest kids were pretty fixated on "Puppies" and can still recite it word for word. (Not surprising as I read it to them every night for years). My youngest (10) loved "I am a Bunny." until approximately 5.

These books were short and easy to read with nice colorful photos. The kids pretended to read along with me (even pointing at the words) before they actually were able to read.

Youngsters love repitition and the repetitive reading is comforting to them.

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[BrianTheBailBondsman]

This was actually a rhyme about the Black Death plauge of Europe!
OHHHH my god! That Mother Goose was one sick bitch1 Where the F' was Mc Carthism when she was filling our heads with this......
No wonder I'm so f'ed up

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[FatTony]

Because they needed some reason for people to read the damned things.

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"They always win in the end."

[HordeKing1]

We know violence sells, but sex sells better.

Anyone for spicing up mother goose? Perhaps we can start sex ed w/nursery rhymes.

There was an old lady who lived in a shoe
She had so many kids she didn't know what to do
She should have insisted her parner use a condom
Cause soon she'll start killing them at random.


3 months to live! 3 months to live!
I've got the AIDS a dreadful disease
I'm about to go on a killing spree
By sleeping with anyone that I see

Boys have a penis
Girls have none
Girls have vaginas
And can get as many penises as they want.



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[NewYorkDragons80]

Another Grimm tale that has been changed is Cinderella. In the original version, the wicked stepmother and stepsisters are forced to wear metal shoes that have been heated in a fire and dance until they die. I think it teaches the young'uns about justice.

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[Tall_James]

In the original version, the wicked stepmother and stepsisters are forced to wear metal shoes that have been heated in a fire and dance until they die. I think it teaches the young'uns about justice.

That is so cool! You think Hollywood screenwriters would steal these ideas from the Brothers Grimm instead of rehashing lame ideas in the genre of "Marmaduke - The Movie"

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[grlNIN]

Boys have a penis
Girls have none
Girls have vaginas
And can get as many penises as they want.


I think i found my yearbook quote!

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<center><font size=4>Meow What Is So Damn Funny?</center></font>

[PanterA]

There was an old lady who lived in a shoe
She had so many kids she didn't know what to do
She should have insisted her parner use a condom
Cause soon she'll start killing them at random.


3 months to live! 3 months to live!
I've got the AIDS a dreadful disease
I'm about to go on a killing spree
By sleeping with anyone that I see

Boys have a penis
Girls have none
Girls have vaginas
And can get as many penises as they want.It's the rappin' Horde King.

go kiiiiing
it's your birffday
we gonna party
like it's your birffday



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