Best President of the last 50 years

[furie]

I wanted to do all of the last century, but i can only give ten options, so we'll do the ten most recent. Who do you think did the best job? Keep in mind there are alot of factors to take in.

[HBox]

Its hard for me to choose as I've only been alive during 4 of these guys Presidencies. But I guess I'll pick JFK, since he avoided nuclear war.

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[Tall_James]

Depends on what you are basing it on. But in my opinion, Ronald Reagan.

And yes, each one of these presidents on this list can be accused of one thing or another, proven or unproven, debatable or undebatable. So let's not get into merits of choices, they are all personal preferences.

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[TheMojoPin]

Yikes, what a list of mutts. Too bad you didn't have room for "none of the above", because my vote would have gone to Truman or Roosevelt if we were doing all of the 20th Century. I went with Kennedy mainly for the civil rights initiatives he got rolling (Johnson passed them, yes, but most were birthed under Kennedy), he stood toe-to-toe and eye-to-eye with the Soviets in the closest we've ever come to the nukes flying and won, and he wasn't too deeply buried in Vietnam by the time he died. Shit, I guess he got the vote just because he was killed before he had a chance to really mess anything up.

Actually, if it weren't for the insane paranoia and Watergate, I would have voted for Nixon.

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[A.J.]

Roosevelt

TR or Eleanor?

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[TheMojoPin]

Whichever one chowed on the most box.

Oh, SNAP!!!

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[A.J.]

Franklin then.

That's probably the only way he could please his mistresses what with the polio and all.

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[furie]

Yikes, what a list of mutts. Too bad you didn't have room for "none of the above", because my vote would have gone to Truman or Roosevelt if we were doing all of the 20th Century.

yeah i know. I wanted to do all of the 20th, but like i said, I was limited 10 slots. I always liked T.R. As a president he was slightly above average, but I liked him as a man.

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This message was edited by furie on 6-23-03 @ 2:07 PM

[phixion]

As a president he was slightly above average,


i thought he was akick ass president. top 5 all time. right in there with jefferson, his cousin, and wilson.

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[furie]

i thought he was akick ass president. top 5 all time.

aside from creating the US Park Service(which was great), what inportant legislation did he push through?

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[A.J.]

aside from creating the US Park Service(which was great), what inportant legislation did he push through?

TR bio (http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/tr26.html)

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[phixion]

what inportant legislation did he push through?



He was born in New York City


thats all he needed to do. thats what we need, to guarantee a good president.

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[furie]

phixion, you argue politics like you argue comics

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Assuming that we are only talking about his achievements as president, I will exclude his service in the Spanish-American War.

Let's see, the Panama Canal, Great White Fleet, Trustbusting, Mediator of Russo-Japanese Armistice (Which he won a Nobel Peace Prize for). He really built up our standing military that helped prepare for WWI, WWII, and the Cold War. For that, I consider him #1 for the Century, followed by his second cousin, followed by Teflon Ron.

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[Heavy]

Ask again in 6 years and my answer will be RUDY!

Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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[Drudge Jr.]

they're all assholes, but voted kennedy

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This message was edited by Drudge Jr. on 6-23-03 @ 5:39 PM

[FiveB247]

I didn't vote...did check the results thus far. Dems are voting for Clinton...Repubs...for Reagan...and the Undecided are voting for Kennedy with the pity vote. Interesting indeed.

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This message was edited by FiveB247 on 6-23-03 @ 9:57 PM

[HBox]

Boy, you got us all figured out and catergorized, Mr. "Don't Categorize Me!"

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[canofsoup15]

I thought FDR was awesome, granted he was president during the war, and i love wars, but thats beside the point. He was just a awesome guy. He brought us outta the depression, got the economy boosting, and won the war, and he had some big cojones, attacking the germans and dropping the bomb, i guess the war thing isnt beside the point...

But aside from that I'd have to vote for Kennedy, for all of the reasons metioned above.(Because i dont feel like making my own. :) :eg: ;p :) )

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[FiveB247]

It's not categorizing..look at the results...I'd be shocked if anyone voted or had alternative reasons for crossing the intentions I said. If someone out there did...speak up...please.

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[TheMojoPin]

Man, two people REALLY like awful music, white people, flat-tops, and cars the size of tanks.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

I can't comprehend why anyone would put Clinton, especially so soon after his presidency. If you are really so partisan, why not Kennedy or Johnson?

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[HBox]

I find it funny that the Bushies, right now, have as many votes as Johnson and Ford. Even Jimmy Carter got a vote! He was more useful AFTER his Presidency than he was during it.

I know it means nothing. I just can't believe somebody voted for Jimmy Carter.

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[TheMojoPin]

I can't comprehend why anyone would put Clinton, especially so soon after his presidency.


Add in "...and Reagan" after "Clinton" and I'm right there with you.

What a pair of zeros.

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[A.J.]

I thought FDR was awesome...attacking the germans and dropping the bomb

Attacked the Germans? Germany declared war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor was attacked in order to support its Axis partner Japan.

And Truman dropped the bomb, not FDR -- though FDR did authorize research into developing the bomb (the Manhattan Project).

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[McNabbShouldDie]

I picked Nixon, not cause I thought hes the best, I just like him and I have his bobblehead.

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[furie]

It's not categorizing..look at the results...I'd be shocked if anyone voted or had alternative reasons for crossing the intentions I said. If someone out there did...speak up...please.

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

then prepare to be shocked. 25% of the people who voted, voted outside of your categories. how do they figure in?

And how do you know that only undecideds voted for Kennedy? Voting is anonymous.


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[FiveB247]

4 of 8 Kennedy votes had these written with them... And yes votes are not seen, yet it appears to fall in line.

"it's hard for me to choose as I've only been alive during 4 of these guys Presidencies. But I guess I'll pick JFK, since he avoided nuclear war."

"Too bad you didn't have room for "none of the above",.... "Shit, I guess he got the vote just because he was killed before he had a chance to really mess anything up."

"they're all assholes, but voted kennedy"

"But aside from that I'd have to vote for Kennedy, for all of the reasons metioned above.(Because i dont feel like making my own."

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[furie]

So avoiding nuclear war consitutes a "pity vote" in your mind?

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Add in "...and Reagan" after "Clinton" and I'm right there with you.

What a pair of zeros.
Suck my root.

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[TheMojoPin]

"Search your heart, you KNOW it to be true!"

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What a daffy, senile old fuck.

Oh, look, Clinton wants to chime in!

"NEY BILLY NO BADDA!"

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[El Mudo]

What a daffy, senile old fuck.


Let's see how many massive economic recoveries you've engineered and cold wars you've won...oh yeah....zero...

Reagan- 2
Mojo- 0

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Turning your orbit around

[TheMojoPin]

Let's see how many massive economic recoveries you've engineered and cold wars you've won...oh yeah....zero...


Dude, he's not the Russians and this isn't Olympic basketball. We're both shooting blanks here. Pull the hobbled deek out of your mouth and leave me alone.

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[FiveB247]

Let's see how many massive economic recoveries you've engineered and cold wars you've won

Well, Reagan only did one of those two...and the he just happen to be in office while it occured. Cold War was a victory due to a long line of policies and presidents. As for the 'massive economic recovery? Do you not remember that deficit thing? Yea, due to Reagan, it was at its highest peak in our nations history.

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[keithy_19]

Best President? I would have to say Reagan. From 1900 to 1950, i go with Truman. He was man enough to use a nuke. And in all of history, I say Abraham Lincoln. He was with the country during a civil war.

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[high fly]

Ronald Reagan! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
You gots to love how some people get so delusional about the guy.
This is a guy who gave Saddam Hussein WMDs.
This is a guy whose policies plunged us into two- countem- two nasty recessions, both of which were far worse than the ones we've had under the Bushes.
This is a guy who promised that [for the first time ever] tax cuts would stimulate the economy to grow faster than the deficit those cuts would create and the resultant tidal wave of taxes from the economic stimulus would eliminate said deficit in 2 years. It didn't. The bastard saddled us with record debt [now a Republican tradition].
This is a guy who came on national tv and lied like hell about trading arms as ransom for hostages.
What's really amusing is how Reagan supporters seem to think that the Reagan arms buildup had something to do with the Solidarity movement in Poland.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[high fly]

Ronald Raygun was also great when it came to taking care of the troops.
Remember his little Lebannon adventure? Anarchy reigned over there, several murderous terrorist groups were running wild, so good ol' "Dutch" Reagan decides to send in the Marines.
With unloaded weapons.
Yep, that's right. Ronald didn't want to offend the delicate sensibilities of the terrorists, so initially, our guys could carry the ammo, but not in their weapons. After a while, they changed that.
Of all the places to put them, the Reagan administration settled on wide open terrain at the Beirut airport, and ceded the high ground around it- the hills and apartment buildings- to the terrorists, who sniped constantly at the target placed right in front of them that had strict rules of engagement.
The terrorists killed scores of Americans when they bombed the embassy and then killed over 240 Marines when they bombed their barracks.
So what does Reagan do?
He sounded the retreat!
But surely, you say, tough talking Ronald Reagan must have made the terrorists responsible pay for murdering americans, right?
Well, not exactly.
Those who planned and ordered the attacks also were the ones behind the kidnapping of americans and who were rewarded for their efforts with several shipments of arms in the Iran/Contra Scandal.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[FMJeff]

is this a trick question?

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<br>
It made my heart sing.

[FMJeff]

test

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/fmjeff.gif">
<br>
It made my heart sing.

[FMJeff]

test

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/fmjeff.gif">
<br>
It made my heart sing.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Nixon's foreign policy was amazing. If it wasn't for Watergate, he would have been considered one of the best presidents ever. Nixon got railroaded in a major way.

Reagan was the man. All you have to do is listen to the man speak in his prime.



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[high fly]

Nixon was for national health care.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[HBox]

Nixon got railroaded in a major way


He railroaded himself.

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[FiveB247]

Is this "railroad" the same line the O and A train wreck runs on?


..............I am not a crook. ................ KABOOOM!.......


........Hey....where'd tricky dick go?

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[curtoid]

G-Dub Bush: Will go down as the worst president of all time

Bill Clinton: Will be remembered as a personally flawed man who, along with a Republican congress, shepherded the country to unheard of prosperity.

George Bush: A man who never wanted to be a president; a true moderate who sold his soul to the extremists in his party.

Reagan: Would have been elected to a third term if he could have, which is scary considering he was already into his Alzheimer's; won the cold war by bankrupting the USSR, and came close to doing the same here; a brilliant writer.

Jimmy Carter: Never one to seek out attention or glory, even though he deserves plenty for his works on the Middle East; surrounded himself with bad advisors.

Gerald Ford: The only man never actually elected President (well...except for George W. Bush! ha!); was incredibly brave in pardoning Nixon.

Tricky Dick Nixon: Paranoid and ruthless, only someone as conservative as he was could have done what he did with China; he should have been honest when he had a chance; has my respect for the wrong reasons - before him we only suspected how corrupt the highest office was. His legacy is that we are now allowed to question everything about our leaders.

Lyndon Johnson: Would have made a damn fine Republican.

Kennedy: Maybe he's still so mythic because there really hasn't been anyone since him that has seemed presidential; the era of civility ended after him - every president since has been viewed as an SNL-like joke. His brother, Robert, could have been our greatest President.

Ike: I like him.

***

As far as Teddy, I am a big fan of the old lug. Fewer people enjoyed being President than him; he really made the most of it.

In 1912, he ran as an independent candidate, after he was already President, he was actually shot on the way to giving his speech. The bullet tore a hole in speech (which was in his pocket), and was lodged in his chest. He not only survived, but Roosevelt received the largest percentage of votes of any third party candidate.

***

OH! I voted for Clinton, just because I knew it would piss people off. With the exception of the two Bushes, there are positives of all of the men, as well as negatives.

[KOP]

This message was edited by KOP on 7-8-03 @ 10:43 PM

[Bergalad]

Hey KOP, I am drunk right now, so I will have to re-read your post tomorrow and be sure about it, but I kinda like it. With of course the glaring exception of calling GWB the worst of all time. That is of course rediculous. He was exactly what America needed after 911, and you can't deny he came into his own there. But the rest of your post...again I am drunk, but I like what you said. You might have changed my opinion a little about you.

[curtoid]

Hey KOP, I am drunk right now, so I will have to re-read your post tomorrow and be sure about it, but I kinda like it.

Thanks.

With of course the glaring exception of calling GWB the worst of all time. That is of course rediculous. He was exactly what America needed after 911, and you can't deny he came into his own there.

Well, I can and will deny it - looking back I am very disappointed with the reaction to what happened on 9/11; instead of being upfront and say that while this was the worst, most horrible thing to ever happen to this county, but we are a country of survivors and not even this will hurt us, we were suddenly given the message that we should be afraid all of the time by everyone. Forget about "We have nothing to fear but fear itself..." now it's "We have everything to fear from everyone."

On 9/11 3,000 people were slaughtered, but over 25,000 survived - many of whom do owe their lives to those who died. That is an amazing number, considering the devestation. I know we have all thought about what might have happened if more people were at work right at 9am (The Giants were on Monday Night Football the night before, afterall so there really was a lot of people staggering in), or if the attacks in New York had been an hour later.

It seemed, at least to me, that the grief was what was being celebrated instead of the survival - but maybe I am just way off base there.

I did get a chance to meet some people directly involved with the rescue efforts, some survivors and even some family members of those who died, and so many of them were not really allowed to start mourning until after the first year anniversary when the media glare, and the political exploitation was off of them.

Anyway - it's just my take on that.

I WILL (!) give you, that I was impressed with Bush's restraint in putting together the war against the Taliban; so many people expected an all out carpet bombing. I'm afraid that if Gore had been in there, he might have felt the pressure to prove something sooner, so to that regard I was grateful that Bush was there at that time.

I'll leave that at that, though..!

Maybe with time I will think differently of G-Dub; my opinions on many people have shifted over the years, and I don't see why he wouldn't be any different.

But the rest of your post...again I am drunk, but I like what you said. You might have changed my opinion a little about you.

Being drunk ususally helps read what I write (or write what I read), but in any event - we both said a lot of shit earlier in the year back and forth, and I (for one) am really sorry for my part of it. Emotions and the internet never mix.

[KOP]

[Yerdaddy]

Well, I can and will deny it - looking back I am very disappointed with the reaction to what happened on 9/11; instead of being upfront and say that while this was the worst, most horrible thing to ever happen to this county, but we are a country of survivors and not even this will hurt us, we were suddenly given the message that we should be afraid all of the time by everyone. Forget about "We have nothing to fear but fear itself..." now it's "We have everything to fear from everyone."
My disappointment was that if you listened only to the President after 9-11 you would have NO understanding of that day whatsoever. That endless droning on about "evil-doers" and "it's because they hate freedom" was a disgrace in my opinion. There is nothing more vacuous, nothing less informative about the people who carried out that attack than they were "evil-doers." No fucking shit, dick! Who the fuck were they? I gotta read about al-qaeda and Afghanistan in books because the president doesn't want me to know what's going on? And that's what it was; he didn't want the American people involved in the process, so he spoon fed us this simplistic rhetoric about these people just being jealous and mean. I say that's not leadership. Leadership is the ability to transcend your own party and ideology and speak in a language that the whole country can understand in times of crisis such as that was. But that kind of talk only appealed to conservative ideology with its oversimplification and good vs. evil sentimentality. And he should have had people around him who would have made that clear; to broaden the perspective of the speeches after one or two repetitions of the baby-talk. No. I really didn't have a president at that time.

I WILL (!) give you, that I was impressed with Bush's restraint in putting together the war against the Taliban; so many people expected an all out carpet bombing. I'm afraid that if Gore had been in there, he might have felt the pressure to prove something sooner, so to that regard I was grateful that Bush was there at that time.
Good point! That's a point I've heard from some experienced foreign policy pros.

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[A.J.]

That endless droning on about "evil-doers" and "it's because they hate freedom" was a disgrace in my opinion. There is nothing more vacuous, nothing less informative about the people who carried out that attack than they were "evil-doers." No fucking shit, dick! Who the fuck were they? I gotta read about al-qaeda and Afghanistan in books because the president doesn't want me to know what's going on? And that's what it was; he didn't want the American people involved in the process, so he spoon fed us this simplistic rhetoric about these people just being jealous and mean. I say that's not leadership.

I disagree with you. The President doesn't want the people to know about al-Qaeda? We didn't hear about them after the Khobar Towers, embassy, and COLE bombings? There weren't a parade of "experts" who who on the round-the-clock coverage after the attacks?

I will agree you with you on one point: I HATE the term "evil-doers" -- it has all the appeal and credibility as the Democrats' beloved "working families". This is the price we pay these days for 24 hour media coverage: clever catch-phrases that sink in when repeated ad nauseum.

However, remember that there were fears that there would be acts of vengance taken against Muslims and other "Middle Eastern-looking" Americans. Remember the Sikh who was shot and killed? Remember the security around the Islamic Center in DC? I think it was important for Bush to separate al-Qaeda from Muslims by singling them out whenever he had the chance. It may have played some small role in quelling a lot of potential retribution against American Muslims.

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This message was edited by AJinDC on 7-9-03 @ 3:36 PM

[Yerdaddy]

However, remember that there were fears that there would be acts of vengance taken against Muslims and other "Middle Eastern-looking" Americans. Remember the Sikh who was shot and killed? Remember the security around the Islamic Center in DC? I think it was important for Bush to separate al-Qaeda from Muslims by singling them out whenever he had the chance. It may have played some small role in quelling a lot of potential retribution against American Muslims.
This is the one aspect that I do give Bush credit - in going to lengths to diminish the retribution against American Muslims and blame of Muslims in general.

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[high fly]

KOP -- I'm with you most of the way on your assessments of recent presidents.
I take issue with your assertion that Reagan "won the cold war by bankrupting the USSR".
The Soviet UNion was already bankrupt and in serious trouble when Reagan was elected.
Indeed, back about 1980 Daniel Patrick Moynahan predicted it's collapse, and it's failures to provide for the people were well known .
The greatest factor weakening the communist bloc was the inner contradictions of communism itself. In short, it just didn't work. It would have fallen anyway, no matter who was the US president.
Think not?
The way I recall communism falling, it all began with a little Polish electrician named Lech Walesa and his coworkers in the Gdansk shipyard. Their revolt spread through the country and eventually they threw out Jeruzelski & co.
When the USSR didn't move in like in Prague back in the 50s or Czechoslavakia in '68, the people in other communist countries, sick of communism, likewise threw off the chains of their oppressors.
It wasn't lack of money that kept the Soviets from stoppping it. They could have moved in and it was not fear of what Reagan would do that made them not do so.
Nor was it Reagan's proposed SDI or the Contras or the 600 ship navy.
No, it was the people of eastern europe themselves who got rid of communism.
It was the Solidarity Movement, more than anything or anyone else that kicked down the dominoes and Reagan had nothing to do with the Solidarity Movement.

" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 7-9-03 @ 8:53 PM