WHy we as Americans will lose the war on terror

[furie]

Because the majority of Americans won't accept the necessary security measures it take to prevent terrorism. May for a few months, but that's about all. just a little inconvenience is all they can take. We're not talking patriot act here. shoes. It amazes me that people need to be reminded why.

click here (http://www.iht.com/articles/100914.html)

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[TheMojoPin]

I still can't believe after all that happened people are right back to bitching about having to wait for a flight.

I HATE flying, mainly because I don't want to crash, period. If all this will somehow prevent at least ONE way of me dying on a plane, it's fine by me.

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[Aggie]

I agree Mojo. I fly quite a bit and I'm all for making it as safe as possible.

The only thing I ask is that if we're always going to have to take off our shoes now, they at least put down a rug or something. Bare feet on a dirty, cold airport floor is feels pretty gross.

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[keithy_19]

My dad works 5 blocks away from the trade center. Or what was the trade center. People need to stop being dumb and do what they can to make sure that another attack like 9/11 never happenes again.




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[FiveB247]

This could be the reason. The public is misled by officials and the media. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=12&u=/ap/20030701/ap_on_re_us/iraq_poll_4)

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[silera]

Until we get past the checking of people's shoes at the airport and commit to hiring qualified individuals to secure our ports, and training our emergency response technicians, and educating ourselves about how to respond in the event of a serious emergency, we're just deluding ourselves.

Sorry, but if the people handling the baggage at JFK are paying more attention to the jewelry in Lil Kim's bag than to anything else, we're a fucking open target.

We can pretend that taking our shoes off at the airport will fix shit. It won't.


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<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

[furie]

Five, what does apathy in the traveling public have to do with Iraq?

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[FiveB247]

It's got everything to do with it. Remember McCarthy? Look at difference between what was said at the time (even though the officials knew otherwise), compared to what is and was fact. Most of the Cold War threats were gross and blantant half-truthes used to carry out various agendas. If you don't believe so, pick up one of many books by George Kennan (I'd recommend Nuclear delussion).

Democratic and Republican styles of government only work if the public actually knows what is going on in their community, nation and globe. You can't fight a battle against an unknown enemy and become victorious without understanding why they are your enemy to begin with. Once the US public understands why terrorism occurs and why people engage in it...then the real war on terror will begin. It is impossible to defend and provide the necessary steps to make 'safety' in our nation. The war on terror now is closer to the bombing of others and removal of our personal rights...safety and defense are still at the same level if not worse than before. Politicians saying otherwise or anything less is similar to one of them campaigning for "education", "lower taxes" or "health care". It's a joke and it works cause the people buy into it. You're only kidding yourself to go along with such illusions and guises (which also happens to be the type of republic we have nowadays).

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

[furie]

...safety and defense are still at the same level if not worse than before.

I disagree. Safety in our airports(since that's what this thread is about) is better, not worse than before (before 9-11 i'm assuming you mean.)

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[Furtherman]

I agree with FiveB247. That article he posted says it all with "Prewar assertions by the Bush administration about al-Qaida's ties to the Iraqi government have not been proven, and weapons of mass destruction have not been found since the invasion of Iraq."

Saddam had to go, no question. So does Osama. But we haven't caught them and I fear that there is a growing sense of "they're on the run" so we'll be alright. I watched in amusement during the bombing of Iraq the people who yelled "Take that you bastards!" I laughed at their answers when I asked " What did the people of Baghdad do to Americans? Most people I talked to thought there was an Iraq-al Qaida connection.

Maybe it is blind patriotism. And for the most part, there is nothing wrong with that. For if I was to be called to fight for our county, I would pick up that rifle and fight.

The problem with this war is the young generation of Iraqis that we will have left there once our stronghold on the oil fields is secure. They are angry at America. They hate America. Years from now, we will have to deal with them. I fear we have made more enemies than allies.

Then we'll have a lot more to worry about than terrorism.

[FiveB247]

We'll have this by then....so we can just continue our rogue, national interest agenda...Long live the American Empire. (http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/07/01/arms.usa.reut/index.html)

Ps...This is just scary...no matter who holds this type of weaponry.

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[furie]

again, how does this article explain apathy in the traveling public on civil aviation?

seems like a post for a new thread

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This message was edited by furie on 7-1-03 @ 4:40 PM

[FiveB247]

Look (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20030701/od_nm/odd_germany_dog_dc)

Now you can say I posted a story which is off topic....ok?

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 7-1-03 @ 4:55 PM

[canofsoup15]

I agree with Fiveb, that article is just scary, once we have that well end up ditching the allies and well just be hated throughout the globe (even more than we are now) While it will protect us somewhat there will be a greater urge to get us.

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[Se7en]

I like how Five has somehow turned this thread into yet another opportunity for him to criticize the American government and / or Bush administration.

He's like, uncanny with this ability. All roads lead to Mecca, huh?


I still can't believe after all that happened people are right back to bitching about having to wait for a flight.


Boy I can. We're maybe the most impatient group of people, culturally, on the planet. I knew it wouldn't take long before the bitching would start.

You think this is bad, just you wait, and see how many people are bitching when we're not out of Iraq before the year is over.

I'm not sure whether people are just too lazy to wait for things, or too stupid to realize that the extra hour or so of time to wait is for additional security.

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[Heavy]

Because the majority of Americans won't accept the necessary security measures it take to prevent terrorism.

Bullshit. Its because we are to fucking pussified to do what actually needs to be done and thats pull every arab out of line and check them fuckers out to include going through all the pockets and dumping thier bags out all over the floor instead of not paying too much attention because you might get accused of profiling if you dare to fuck with hakmed and Ganji at the air[port.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Saddam had to go, no question. So does Osama.
You had me, then you lost me. I feel that we have Osama neutralized and he does not pose a clear and present threat to the United States security. Look at Afghanistan. We soundly defeated al-Qaeda in South Asia and I don't see any evidence that they are producing weapons of mass destruction. Haven't the Afghani people suffered enough? There is no need to bomb innocent civilians just to get to someone who no longer poses a direct threat to the United States.

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[Furtherman]

I feel that we have Osama neutralized and he does not pose a clear and present threat to the United States security.


Osama can still contact the al-Qedia sleeper cells, and most likely has. They are the ones we still have to worry about.

If that means extra long lines at the airport, or $10 outta my paycheck towards security - I'm all for it.

[Bill From Yorktown]

I have no problems with inconveniences as long as they make sense (make me safer). I have a HUGE problem with ones that make no sense. The screeners at the airports also dont get the fact that, though they see hundreds of people a day, we as flyers only see 1 of them a day, so a little courtesy would go a long way. They took my 2 year old's shoes off (strike 1 with him) and tried to make him stand there with his arms out at his sides (strike 2 with him)and he freaked. If they had told us what they were going to do, we could have made an attempt to explain it to him first. Once he started freaking, their rules prohibited us from touching him until they were done (strike 3). That really got him going; it took a long time at the gate to calm him down. I understand why they were doing the search but they could have made it a little easier on all of us.

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This message was edited by Bill From Yorktown on 7-2-03 @ 9:50 AM

[DJEvelEd]

If I was a terrorist:

I could EASILY drive up the turnpike to exit 13A, and shoot off an RPG into the airport. If I hit a parked plane or a plane in motion, the effect would be devastating to the airline industry. Even if we go totally "police state" this could still happen. We're done as a country because we have lost our freedom of choice, freedom of movement, and freedom of expression(unless you're right wing, you're unAmerican)

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[furie]

Because the majority of Americans won't accept the necessary security measures it take to prevent terrorism.

Bullshit. Its because we are to fucking pussified to do what actually needs to be done and thats pull every arab out of line and check them fuckers out to include going through all the pockets and dumping thier bags out all over the floor instead of not paying too much attention because you might get accused of profiling if you dare to fuck with hakmed and Ganji at the air[port.

Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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That being a necessary security measure.

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[FiveB247]

Big brother is watching... (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20030701/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/pentagon_urban_cameras_9)

And how is posting an article about the war on terrorism not relevant to "why we as americans will lose the war on terror"? It's a valid point in how people are told information. (and how we are fighting the actual war.)

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Why practice democratic values when you can practice capitalism?

This message was edited by FiveB247 on 7-2-03 @ 11:10 AM

[high fly]

In a war, one goes out and kills the enemy and blows up his stuff.
We are not doing that.
As the battlefield in the war on terrorism is like a guerilla war in that there are no front lines, we should be killing the enemy and his supporters in the streets. Just hunting the bastards down and killing them.
We are not doing that.
We should be hearing of, for example, a moneylender being blown up in downtown Riyadh or Manilla or Geneva.
Sure, we need to take some of them alive to get intelligence from them, but there is too much emphasis on arresting the bastards as if it were a criminal matter.
Another mistake we have made is in not killing Bin Laden and Mullah Omar. It has long been an accepted principle in warfare that "When you strike at a king, make sure you kill him". This goes back centuries, at least to Machiavelli.
While I do not think we will "lose" this war, I don't see it as ending with a victory either. It's just something that will drag on for many, many years.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[furie]

Here's a follow-up to this story (http://http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/07/10/bi.shoe.screening/index.html)

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[FMJeff]

we won't win the war on terror because we're not focused on removing the gripes these people have with the world...mainly the inequalities of us vs palestinian economies and us world policy (which is laughable, to say the least. they hate us because we're rich and tell other people how to live thier lives. i don't blame them for being pissed, I do blame them for how they deal with it. since no side can ever really back down, i suspect it will go on for many years until we blow ourselves up or reach a level of enlightenment where we can do away with the petty concerns...

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[high fly]

FM JEFF, hey man, you need to read up on the doctrine of Al Qaida and the other Islamic fundamentalists.
You'll find their main "gripe" with us is that we are not Islamic fundamentalists like they are.
Mohammed divided the world into two parts, "The land of war" and "The land of Islam".
Guess which one we are in?
It is called the land of war because war is authorized there in order to bring it into the land of Islam.
They are dedicated to bring war to the land of war until the entire globe is ruled by their brand of Islam. They will do this no matter what our foreign policy is.


" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 7-19-03 @ 4:41 PM