Let's Be Real About the Iraq Occupation

[42nd-delay]

We're in there for years. Decades. There's no way we're going to make it a functioning western-style state in a few years. Our greatest successes in nation-building - Germany and Japan - took a long time despite both being places more hospitable to our efforts, and we STILL have troops there!

A second concern is money. This is going to be costly. We're spending 10s of billions of dollars there a month, and barely anything has been done. Basic needs like electricity and running water are yet unmet. I'm all for trying to make Iraq into a shinning example of what a secular democracy can be (though maybe we should start with Afghanistan), but we're not going to be able to do it cheaply. How will we pay for it when all the while taxes are being cut and our deficit grows? And it'll only get worse - the costs of nation-building will increase, and the costs of this nation will increase as baby boomers get into retirement age (because of Medicare and Social Security). One day we won't be able to borrow anymore. Our debt is in the trillions.

I can't say I support us having fought in Iraq, but now that we have, we need to focus on the task if we want to make this something that will help us. I'm worried cause Bush admin seems profoundly wrong for the task at hand - he argued against nation-building while a candidate, is intent on cutting gov't revenues, and seems to not want to commit the resources necessary for the effort.

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"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[Yerdaddy]

Well said.

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FREE ASS!

[mdr55]

We're still in Iraq? I thought we were going to South Africa next. And there's N. Korea.

Bush has borrowed the plan of McArthur but this time he calls it "Continent Hopping" in the quest to make the United States of the World.

Go bush Go.

This message was edited by mdr55 on 7-21-03 @ 2:12 AM

[Heavy]

Basic needs like electricity and running water are yet unmet.

Yea and itll stay that way until those animals stop fucking around and killing us

Mad props to Fluff for the sig and C.O.soup for hosting!
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[Yerdaddy]

Don't condemn the whole country for the actions of a few. Ambassador Paul Bremmer, head of the Coalition Provisional Authority on <a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/941623.asp" target="_blank">Meet the Press</a> today:

AMB. BREMER: Well, let's put it in perspective. The death of any American serviceman is obviously a tragedy, but what we're faced here with is a small group of killers, trained killers, who are basically trying to hold back the tide of history in Iraq, and the tide of history is flowing towards democracy. These are people who are ex-Ba'athists, Fedayeen Saddam ex-people in the intelligence community there,
and we simply have to overpower them, and we will.
MR. RUSSERT: How many are there?
AMB. BREMER: We don't know. Obviously, if we knew, we'd have better intelligence and we'd be able to go after them. There were tens of thousands of people in the Republican Guards in the Fedayeen Saddam and they are concentrated in an area which is where Saddam had his traditional political and tribal support, a small area between Tikrit, which was Saddam's hometown, and Baghdad, in the south. That's where 85 percent of the attacks against American forces have taken place since June 1. So it's a small area of the country we're dealing with.


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[high fly]

We've got kids pelting our guys with rocks, suicide bombers, snipers and mines killing them, car bombs,
etc., etc. etc.
I wish it wasn't true, but it looks like [to the chagrin of all the prewar hawks on the board] my prediction of a "California-sized West Bank of our very own" is coming to pass.
It really hit home here locally, when right after Bush's "Bring-em on" challenge, the bastards did just that, killing a young sergeant. Now three little kids, aged 2, 3, and 4 have no Daddy and a wife has lost her husband. A large family grieves.
Sadly, there have been, and will be, many, many, much too many of these stories before we get out of there.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[jocefus]

7 muslims picked to live in a house...

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sig courtesy of amy

This message was edited by jocefus on 7-21-03 @ 8:05 PM

[Bergalad]

Now three little kids, aged 2, 3, and 4 have no Daddy and a wife has lost her husband. A large family grieves.
Boo fucking whoo. Seriously. Don't go that route and start with the soldier's family. Typically, you miss the point: the fucking guy died, not his family, yet you seem to pity them most. Bleeding heart. How about honoring the soldier for doing something he believed in instead of using his family as a propaganda tool?

[TheMojoPin]

Iraq?

PLEASE.

That dump is SO Afghanistan.

NEXT.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 7-21-03 @ 9:54 PM

[Recyclerz]

As usual, Slate has a must read article on this:


Send in the UN (http://slate.msn.com/id/2085822/)


PS
Bergalad,
I enjoy your posts but the "boo fucking hoo" diatribe isn't one of your strongest



There ain't no asylum here.
King Solomon, he never lived 'round here.

[high fly]

BERGALAD- I'll pass on sending your "boo fucking hoo" post on to the family. Somehow, I don't think they'll understand.
But thanks for the sentiment, big guy, I'm sure you meant well.


" and they ask me why I drink"

[Bergalad]

Somehow, I don't think they'll understand.

I don't care if they understand. The soldier understood, and that's all that matters to me.
How about honoring the soldier for doing something he believed in instead of using his family as a propaganda tool?