You must set the ad_network_ads.txt file to be writable (check file name as well).
The birth of BIG BROTHER? [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

PDA

View Full Version : The birth of BIG BROTHER?


mdr55
09-09-2003, 07:47 AM
Fliers to Be Rated for Risk Level
By Sara Kehaulani Goo, Washington Post Staff Writer

In the most aggressive -- and, some say, invasive -- step yet to protect air travelers, the federal government and the airlines will phase in a computer system next year to measure the risk posed by every passenger on every flight in the United States.

The new Transportation Security Administration system seeks to probe deeper into each passenger's identity than is currently possible, comparing personal information against criminal records and intelligence information. Passengers will be assigned a color code -- green, yellow or red -- based in part on their city of departure, destination, traveling companions and date of ticket purchase.

Most people will be coded green and sail through. But up to 8 percent of passengers who board the nation's 26,000 daily flights will be coded "yellow" and will undergo additional screening at the checkpoint, according to people familiar with the program. An estimated 1 to 2 percent will be labeled "red" and will be prohibited from boarding. These passengers also will face police questioning and may be arrested.

The system "will provide protections for the flying public," said TSA spokesman Brian Turmail. "Not only should we keep passengers from sitting next to a terrorist, we should keep them from sitting next to wanted ax murderers."

The new system, called Computer Assisted Passenger Pre-screening System II (CAPPS II), has sparked so much controversy among both liberal and conservative groups that the TSA has struggled to get it going. Delta Air Lines backed out of a testing program with the agency earlier this year, and now the TSA will not reveal which airlines will participate when it tests a prototype early next year. If all goes as planned, the TSA will begin the new computer screening of some passengers as early as next summer and eventually it will be used for all domestic travelers.

"This system is going to be replete with errors," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites)'s technology and liberty program. "You could be falsely arrested. You could be delayed. You could lose your ability to travel."

In the two years since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist hijackings, air security has taken a high priority, and the government has spent $9 billion on improvements. Thousands of explosives-detection machines now scan checked luggage at airports across the nation. A new force of federal airport screeners staffs checkpoints, though next year some airports may revert to private screeners. Cockpit doors have been reinforced, and hundreds of airline pilots now carry guns. In addition, the force of undercover air marshals has been expanded, and as many as 5,000 federal immigration and customs agents will be trained to bolster the force on a temporary basis when the government perceives a heightened threat.

Still, many holes in security persist. Airports and aircraft still appear easy to penetrate, illustrated last month by an accidental landing of several boaters on the airfield at John F. Kennedy International Airport. Air cargo remains vulnerable, as virtually none of the items stowed alongside luggage in the aircraft hold are screened for explosives. Government officials continue to assess how best to respond to the possibility of a shoulder-fired missile attack at a commercial airliner, which they maintain is a serious threat.

In the coming months, major airports in Los Angeles, Seattle, Denver and Dallas will embark on extensive construction projects to build explosives-detection machines into conveyor-belt systems that sort checked luggage being loaded onto planes. (Other airports, including Washington's, are waiting in line for hundreds of millions of dollars in government funding.)

Clearly, the TSA says, the job of protecting the nation's skies is not done.

"Given the dynamic nature of the threat we deal with, it would be impossible to predict when the work would be finished" on air security, said TSA spokesman Robert Jo

TheMojoPin
09-09-2003, 07:54 AM
Good.

Our current level of airline security is a joke.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

mdr55
09-09-2003, 08:06 AM
Good.

Our current level of airline security is a joke.


Sure airline security is a joke.

But at what price personal freedom? How long before they apply it to other areas of peoples' lives- such as resticting a person's movement due to alleged potential threat. And heaven forbid if that person was you and you're innocent. (Once a person is labeled as such, that label stays with them throughout their lives- just look at people who are diagnosed with having a mental illness, drug abruser, etc). How much different is this from being black-listed or what the Nazis did to the Jews during WWII? What about being guilty by association? (ex. They read literature such as the Koran, so they must be a terrorist or have terrorist ties).

Fight the Establishment. Down with censorship!!

This message was edited by mdr55 on 9-9-03 @ 12:10 PM

TheMojoPin
09-09-2003, 08:33 AM
It doesn't have to jump from zero to arrest. It simply can be a guide as to who needs to be screened more carefully when boarding a plane. Seems like a much smarter idea than these useless random searches they have going these days. In fact, I think this would cut down on the unfortunately necessary biased nature of the current method of security. Upwards and onwards, says I.

And look, I own two different copies of the Koran. If it means I'm screened higher in this new process than someone else, so be it. I don't have anything to hide, or anything else that indicates I could be a threat. As it says, you have graded levels of threats. Something as simple as owning the Koran wouldn't be a red flag. No terrorist is a "blank slate"...we need a readily accessible database that'll help catch these guys at the frontline before they board the planes.

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

mdr55
09-09-2003, 08:58 AM
I don't have anything to hide, or anything else that indicates I could be a threat.


Didn't the Jewish people being rounded up by the Nazis think the same thing. And the Japaneses-Americans being rounded up in U.S. during WWII? Or the Native-Americans after the expansion Westward?

I bet if the government found oil on indian reservations, they move them somewhere else.

Fight the Establishment. Down with censorship!!

Bill From Yorktown
09-09-2003, 09:05 AM
I suppose you're against having car registration and license plates, as those can be used to track your movements. Additionally, comparing being screened at a VOLUNTARY activity like flying to the Nazi atrocities after rounding up the Jews is not possible. They are so different. I'm sure that the Jews didnt think "oh they're just going to bring me in for a few questions then let me go" - they suspected what was going on and HID from them.


<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/billb914/sigpic.gif">

Death Metal Moe
09-09-2003, 09:06 AM
Settle down Mulder. There's not a 1984 conspiracy in every new thing that comes down the line.

I am with you in wanting Big Government out of my life. I am also aware that we don't want our airplanes used as missles again.

It's going to be a delecate balance between intrusion and civil liberties. I don't know how this will pan out, but my gut instinct is it's bad.

I feel like a national labeling system might be a step in the wrong direction.

Because I know I'm gonna end up on some wacky list just because my name is Mohamed. I have no criminal record, don't speak Arabic, and no Islamic, don't look Arab. But in this national registry, my name will automatically get me red flaged, and that's gay.

So nobody fly anywhere with me after this goes into effect. It's gonna mean an extra 2 hours in security.

<IMG SRC="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=njdmmoe">
<A HREF="http://www.unhallowed.com">www.unhallowed.com</A>
How can this poison be the dream of my soul?
How did my fantasies take complete control.......yea.

Bill From Yorktown
09-09-2003, 09:12 AM
But in this national registry, my name will automatically get me red flaged, and that's gay.


Mo, though (for good reasons) they arent publishing the specs to red flag someone, I doubt that a name would be a criterion. Right now, every time my wife (a white, middle class mother of 1) flies, she gets pulled out of line for a more thorough screening, because she usually flies single segments, not round trip, as it gives her work more flexibility. THAT is currently 1 criterion that is in existence and it hits her every time. A more reasonable, systematic means of jutdging threat is better than random screenings. The alternative would be how they handle things in Isreal - put you in a airplane seat, and point guns at you (or near you) until you land.

I agree that the government is way to "into" my business in many ways, but if something like this keeps me and my family safe, I say screen screen screen. If any methods do NOT improve my safety, dump 'em.


ok, off my soapbox....

<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/billb914/sigpic.gif">

DJEvelEd
09-09-2003, 09:12 AM
It's a step closer to the inevitable police state. God help us.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/canofsoup15/images/dj-sig.gif">
May your Kum Krusted Kocks be Konstantly Kovered in Kunt.

mdr55
09-09-2003, 09:16 AM
All I'm saying although it's a GOOD idea, there will be always someone who thinks....."hmmm......if it works okay at the airports, why don't we apply it at (fill in the space)". You never know...the initial purpose of the idea could be twisted or warped to where it negates what it was supposed to do in the first place. (Like in the movie Minority Report). Or in Iraq where Saddam at one time was our "friend" because they weren't Iran.

Fight the Establishment. Down with censorship!!

furie
09-09-2003, 09:35 AM
This is not really news nor is this the birth of big brother, more like entering pre-k.
there's a reason the new system is called CAPPS II, because CAPPS has been in place for decades. It was devoloped originally by the airlines.

It's not big brother because it'll be the industry, not the government that'll be assigning the color codes and doing the checks


http://tseery.homestead.com/files/skull.gif

silera
09-09-2003, 09:55 AM
From what I read it seems like a step in the right direction. It really is not different from having all your driving information looked up when you get stopped at check points.

From experience though, relying too much on what's on paper can lead to serious fuck ups that take months to clear up for the unfortunate ass (ie: me) that can never keep up with things... (see Figment thread re: arrest).

I like the fact that it would be a private measure, and not operated by a government agency because it wouldn't require a law or vote to adapt the system to work better.

It seems like a tremendous first step. I'm still waiting on the missile defense systems for passenger planes, 100% check of all incoming shipments via air or sea, and more assistance to local law enforcement and health departments to help coordinate the transfer of information and training to respond to emergencies.

We really are dragging our feet on being prepared for disaster.

<center>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silera/files/Silera/sig4.gif
<font size="3" color="red">AND WHAT?</font></center><font color="FBF2F7">

TheMojoPin
09-09-2003, 10:10 AM
So it's private industry? Well, then that's even less "big brother"-ish. But where are they getting their information from? The customers' purchasing and travelling information? Or is the government supplying them with personal info?

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

Bill From Yorktown
09-09-2003, 10:14 AM
1 - they probably wont say where the data comes from as it might make it easier to second guess a way around it
2 - a LOT of information can be cleaned from travel patterns

<IMG SRC="http://hometown.aol.com/billb914/sigpic.gif">

JerryTaker
09-09-2003, 10:41 AM
Makes you want to just skip the intracontinental flights and just drive wherever you need to go.

Good thing gas is so cheap... oh, wait...

<IMG SRC="http://afs30.njit.edu/~gsm2321/snowsig.gif">

Even in death you still look sad.
Don't leave me! Dont leave me, here.

furie
09-09-2003, 01:12 PM
But where are they getting their information from? The customers' purchasing and travelling information? Or is the government supplying them with personal info?

<img src="http://members.hostedscripts.com/randomimage.cgi?user=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

both.


http://tseery.homestead.com/files/skull.gif