Bloodiest day in American History...131 yrs. ago..

[El Mudo]

Today is the 131st anniversary of the Battle of Sharpsburg, from the War Between the States, the bloodiest day in American history. I can't think of too many places in the war that were any worse than The Cornfield, or The Bloody Lane, or the destruction of Sedgwicks Division in the West Woods, or the Dunker Church area.

It was a battle that should have ended the war. the Union General McClellan got there with the Army of the Potomac, all 85,000 of them, on the 16th, and only had 15,000 Confederates in front of him, but continaualy believed he was outnumbered two to one. And if the battle had been fought at one rush instead of three separate battles, it would've been lights out for the Army of Northern Virginia...

But anway, I just thought i'd mention it. A lot of brave and good men died for what they thought was right....

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[mdr55]

Thank God for school.

Think HAPPY thoughts. Welcome EVERYONE! Ron and Fez love you..............No this is not a cult.

[FUNKMAN]

A lot of brave and good men died for what they thought was right....


true!

i bet you there were alot more that did not even want to be there. in the case of this war, you were asked to commit suicide. when you are in the front row and there are a thousand guys behind you and there are a thousand guys charging at you with bayonets, gunfire, and cannon fire, what chances do you think you had to come out alive?

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[El Mudo]

i bet you there were alot more that did not even want to be there


One of my favorite stories about Sharpsburg is when Gen. Lee caught a soldier behind the lines early on the 17th stealing a pig. Lee was famous for having an awful temper, and he got enraged at this soldier and sent him to Gen'l Jackson to be executed, but Jackson put him in the firing line...

But on the other hand, most of the armies at this time were still true Volunteers. Most of the conscription didn't begin to take effect in large numbers until late 1863/early 1864 (at least in the Federal Army) when most of the "boys of '61" were left in places like The Cornfield, or in front of Marye's Heights at Fredericksburg, or in the Wilderness by Chancellorsville...

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[TheMojoPin]

Union General McClellan

I'm a direct descendant of this screw-up.

Grand.

So how about some stories of Northern aggression? Those at least have a happy ending...

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[El Mudo]

I'm a direct descendant of this screw-up.


Really? I'm currently reading a biography of Little Mac by Stephen Sears, and its pretty good. When he was convinced he was right, like when he continually believed he had 200,000 confederates facing him, he would not budge from that stance, and if you disagreed with him, you were evil. He was very class oriented, like he only really liked people he considered in his social class. He may have commanded again in '64, because Grant was having problems with commanders, he was going to put McC. in the Valley command or have him replace Meade as commander of the Army of the Potomac, but instead he decided to run for president.

McClellan wasn't that bad of a guy, he was a great organizer and a tireless worker, but he just "didn't have it" when it came to waging campaigns.

The guy was absolutely brilliant when he wanted to be, but it seemed he never wanted to take risks in order to win, and in war you have to do that...

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[Mike Teacher]

I know it was filled with quite a few mistakes [sheesh cut the guy a break], but the Ken Burn's Civil War series continues to blow me away.

The photos and voice overs from real letters make it like you're in a friggin time machine.

We tend to forget with all the crap going on elsewhere that we live on ground that has seen some of the bloodiest battles in world history.

This is from the another war; but I'm 10 miles from Monmouth Battlefield. Amazing what happened there 225 years ago...

Maybe now you know why I Loathe Bad History Teachers. You actually have to work at it to make this stuff boring.

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[TheMojoPin]

Mudo's right...it's just that George's millitary blunders and mistaken arrogance far, FAR overshadow anything else about him, especially since his (in)actions very likely prolonged the war and cost even more American lives.

That, and he actually tried to run against Lincoln for president. Dork.

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[El Mudo]

That, and he actually tried to run against Lincoln for president. Dork.


Well, the Democrats needed someone basically "in the middle". Lincoln himself said that they would either have to run a "peace democrat on a war platform" or a "war democrat on a peace platform"...they needed someone to unite the party, because its split in 60 gave the election to Lincoln...

And they also were counting on the fact that the largest Army in the world, the Army of the Potomac, would all vote for their beloved commander, which didn't happen, i think Abe got something like 85% of the soldier vote...


I know it was filled with quite a few mistakes [sheesh cut the guy a break], but the Ken Burn's Civil War series continues to blow me away.

The photos and voice overs from real letters make it like you're in a friggin time machine.



And Shelby Foote is the MAN...i can't help but tear up everytime I hear him read from Berry Benson's diary on the last episode as they fade out on the old veterans...


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This message was edited by El Mudo on 9-17-03 @ 11:58 PM

[Yerdaddy]

<a href="http://www.nps.gov/anti/battle.htm" target="_blank">National Park Service - Battle of Antietam</a>
<a href="http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/hh/31/hh31g.htm" target="_blank">NPS Historical Handbook: Antietam</a>

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[sr71blackbird]

I wonder when the very last Civil War soldure died? I imagine some of them could have lived up until after WWI, right? WWII?


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[El Mudo]

TextI wonder when the very last Civil War soldure died? I imagine some of them could have lived up until after WWI, right? WWII?



The last soldier to die in battle was John J. Williams of the 34th Indiana at Palmito Ranch...

I don't know the last federal soldier that died, but i believe the last soldier who fought in the war died in 1959, i believe his name was Walter Washington Williams or something like that, a confederate veteran...

The last general i can think of that died was federal general Adelbert Ames, i think he died in the early 30's...

Alberta Martin, whose first husband was a confederate soldier, is still alive i believe, the last civil war widow. She married Albert Martin when he was 81 and she was 18, she had a kid to support and this was the depression and a Confederate soldier's pension was a lot of dough in those days...when albert died she married his grandson and they were married for the next 40 or 50 years i think...

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[Se7en]

Speaking as someone who's ancestors fought for the Confederacy:

McClellan was a fucking fuckwad fuckity fuck-fuck.

What a maroon.

Oh, and the south shall rise again.

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[TheGameHHH]

McClellan really was a douche, but I'm not so sure the South will ever rise again. I'm sooo glad theres other history buffs on this board.

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[Aggie]

Speaking as someone who's ancestors fought for the Confederacy:

McClellan was a fucking fuckwad fuckity fuck-fuck.

What a maroon.

Oh, and the south shall rise again.


Yeah, you even got the ignorant red neck talk down. I feel so at home.

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[TheMojoPin]

Oh, and the south shall rise again.

Liar.

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And if they do, we'll just get another bearded drunk to kick their collective asses all over again.

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[Wormwood]

remember it well.

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[sr71blackbird]

I wasnt asking when the last one died in battle. I was asking, if anyone knows who managed to live beyond the end of the war and at what point after did they die. I imagine that since they were in their teens, alot of soldures who made it through might have lived well into the 20th century and what I wanted to know was, when did the last one die? I imagine there must be some kind of record.


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[El Mudo]

I imagine that since they were in their teens, alot of soldures who made it through might have lived well into the 20th century and what I wanted to know was, when did the last one die?


If you read my post I said Walter Washington Williams of the CSA in 1959 was the last living Civil War soldier to pass...



I don't know the last federal soldier that died, but i believe the last soldier who fought in the war died in 1959, i believe his name was Walter Washington Williams or something like that, a confederate veteran...


My ancestors were Confederate Veterans too, Se7en....one from Georgia I haven't tracked down records of yet, and one from the Valley who served with C Company of the 33d Virginia, of the best damn brigade in the War, the Stonewall Brigade(you can have the Iron Brigade, the Irish Brigade, the Excelsior Brigade, and Hood's Texans...i'll take old Stonewall's men any day of the week...)

It was pretty cool to see actors portraying his regiment in "Gods and Generals" whuppin' up on some Yankees...



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[reeshy]

Thank God for Google!!

The last Civil War veteran to die was Jebediah Williams. He fought on the Confederate side. He died of a heart attack on the island of Iwo Jima in 1943 while a kamikaze pilot for the Japanese. He hated the Union that much that he joined up with the Japanese. As a Kamikaze pilot, he had 42 missions under his belt and was found dead in a geisha house while on liberty!!

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[Doogie]

Bloodiest day in American History...131 yrs. ago..


Guys I really do hate to be Mr Nit Picky, but 131 years ago would be the year 1872. Seven years after the "war between the states" ended...but asides from that it is grat discussion and great points

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[Yerdaddy]

The last Civil War veteran to die was Jebediah Williams. He fought on the Confederate side. He died of a heart attack on the island of Iwo Jima in 1943 while a kamikaze pilot for the Japanese. He hated the Union that much that he joined up with the Japanese. As a Kamikaze pilot, he had 42 missions under his belt and was found dead in a geisha house while on liberty!!

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Actually, the last Civil War veteran to die WAS Jebediah Williams. And he did fight on the Confederate side, but he switched to the Union when he fell in love with an artilleryman in the 54th Massachusetts (colored regiement), and the two were "married" in 1864 by General John A. Dix in Vermont. When his life partner died in 1941, Jebediah went to Japan to manage an apartment complex and cut banzai trees. He befriended a troubled teenage Japanese boy who was new to the area and tought him the art of self-defense and scoring with hot chicks through odd jobs and gay-looking bird poses. He was killed by a shark in the parking lot of his diner "Arnold's" in Tokyo in 1956.

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[El Mudo]

The last Civil War veteran to die was Jebediah Williams. He fought on the Confederate side. He died of a heart attack on the island of Iwo Jima in 1943 while a kamikaze pilot for the Japanese. He hated the Union that much that he joined up with the Japanese. As a Kamikaze pilot, he had 42 missions under his belt and was found dead in a geisha house while on liberty!!


Actually, some Marines put a Confederate battle flag up on Shuri Castle in Okinawa....made some fatcat general angry...


TextBloodiest day in American History...131 yrs. ago..


Crap...i'm never good with dates...

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[shamus mcfitzy]

Bloodiest day in American History...131 yrs. ago..


i don't know...the day Mary Todd was without a tampon...

ah gegege

[canofsoup15]

Im glad some people remember this war, being in school they coimpletely blew past this, and other major battles (see. Petersburg). Antietam was probably the coolest battle of the war, the best had to be the bridge crossiong (forgive me i forget the name). That is where the Union was attempting to cross a small footbridge for hours being sniped by a confederate sniper rtegiment from georgia.

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[TheMojoPin]

GodDAMN, the Civil War was lame.

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[high fly]

U.S. and foreign military officers still can be found walking the ground out at Wilderness and Chancellorsville studying those battles.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[El Mudo]

U.S. and foreign military officers still can be found walking the ground out at Wilderness and Chancellorsville studying those battles.


And the US Army War College is not too far from Gettysburg I believe...


when you are in the front row and there are a thousand guys behind you and there are a thousand guys charging at you with bayonets, gunfire, and cannon fire, what chances do you think you had to come out alive?


I have been thinking about this a lot the last couple of days. What would bring the men of that era to face almost certain death for a country most of them didn't even know was there? Shelby Foote talked in the Ken Burns series about how after the war the men knew they had a country because they had walked its roads, and tramped its fields. And he also remarked as to the "remarkable simplicity" of the men of that time. I know if I had been told "you will advance over one mile of open ground and take that hill over there" like at Gettysburg, I would have said "uh...General, I don't think this is going to work", but they did it.

I can't even begin to describe the absolute courage most of these men had. I'm not even sure it exists in our society any more. Heck, if we take 3% casualties in a battle today it would be considered a bloodbath, but 3% back then was a skirmish, especially when you had units take as much as 82% casualties (1st Minnesota at Gettysburg), or lose over 400 men(including 120 killed) in just ten minutes at Second Manassas(5th New York)

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[FUNKMAN]

General, I don't think this is going to work", but they did it. I can't even begin to describe the absolute courage most of these men had. I'm not even sure it exists in our society any more.


i'm not looking to belittle or make light of the courageous acts of the soldiers. in my mind i have to imagine that in most cases it was a 'macho peer pressure' to enlist, a 'hatred' towards you're southern or northern neighbor, or if there was a draft, you had no choice. I'm sure they dealt with dodgers or guys who went AWOL very harshly.

I would also imagine the main purpose for the war was mostly heartfelt by the Southern soldiers. Most Northern soldiers would have chose to leave the situation as is instead of going to war.

When it comes down to it, most men were afraid and the 'kill or be killed' situation they were thrown into just brought out the 'will' to survive.



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[high fly]

Gentlemen, please; can we use the proper name for that conflict?

To be precise, it was "The Recent Unpleasantness".




thank you.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

I fully endorse glamorizing and romanticizing the most violent and shameful period of our nation's history.

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[high fly]

Sure wish I had a The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly quote handy.

You know, like from that part where Clint gets sidetracked into that Civil War scrap...

" and they ask me why I drink"