Judge blocks abortion ban

[DarkHippie]

NY judge blocks recent abortion ban (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20031106/ap_on_re_us/abortion_lawsuit_16)

Good. Congress thought it could pass this without having one doctor testify before Congress on the necessity of partial-birth abortions and the like. Now its blocked. BOOYA!!

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[Snoogans]

yay! more reasons to get mad at government. isnt it unconstitutional to ban abortion, being that its your body. the government cant stop you from doin anything to yourself.
and plus, no, that baby ISNT a living person until its born, because if it wasnt connected to the parent, it would die. meaning until its born, that baby isnt alive

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EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[furie]

judges. it's not about what the majority of the people, the majority of the house & senate, and the president wants. it all about what these non-elected life long officials want.


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[Teenweek]

yay! more reasons to get mad at government. isnt it unconstitutional to ban abortion, being that its your body. the government cant stop you from doin anything to yourself.
and plus, no, that baby ISNT a living person until its born, because if it wasnt connected to the parent, it would die. meaning until its born, that baby isnt alive

[

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/images/lilpba1.gif

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/images/lilpba2.gif

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/images/lilpba3.gif

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/images/lilpba4.gif

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/images/lilpba5.gif


What democrats consider not to be a human being (http://www.precious-life.com/images/partial20birth.jpg)

[Se7en]

This was predictable.

isnt it unconstitutional to ban abortion,

Abortion as a whole? Yes.

One particularly barbaric form of abortion? I would hope not, but I suppose we'll have to wait until a select minority of individuals in the judiciary decide what's best for us.

This message was edited by Se7en on 11-6-03 @ 6:06 PM

[Snoogans]

ok, im not sayin we should have chicks goin up with coat hangers. but as a medical procedure in a sanitary proper environment, its a right, and sometimes a necessity.
Teenweek, if that was supposed to change my mind, it didnt. for starters, 90% of abortions occur before you could even tell it was a fetus. its not an 8 month old that they abort. and 2, if you cut the umbilical(sp) cord before the baby leaves the stomach, it will die. meaning until it leaves the womb, its part of the woman, and its her choice to remove it if she wants to or has to

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TallJames is the man

EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[Snoogans]

and teenweek, FUCK YOU about the democrats thing. that is the equivalent of stereotyping a black person. i am in between the parties because i actually form my opinions on my own, not based on what my group of aquaintences thinks. people who vote for a party because they are that party are followers.
the fact that you even state its democrats makes you a scum bag, for not all dems are for abortion, and not all repubs are against it, and vice versa, ABOUT ANY TOPIC
be a man and think for yourself before you get these biased political cartoons filled with half truths and try to force me into a group. im my own person and will not follow anything for any reason other than I CHOOSE too.....prejudiced fuckin prick

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TallJames is the man

EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[ChrisTheCop]

I'm pro choice. I feel abortions should be available to any woman who feel she needs one, after counseling when required. However, there's a right way and a wrong way to do things, and this particualr form of abortion has always made my skin crawl. Just look at the diagram above, and if you think it's okay, youre sick. Abortion in general is NOT supported by a majority, as someone above suggests; the matter has always been pretty much 50-50 in America. Procedures like partial birth abortion only widen the gap. One more faulty statement:

its your body. the government cant stop you from doin anything to yourself
I'm just guessing you typed the wrong words, but as written, this would mean cops arent supposed to stop you from killing yourself.

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[DJEvelEd]

I heard on the radio that there's a country in Africa where the baby's head is pushed out by the mother and they hit the baby with a hammer to drain the brains.

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[Snoogans]

I'm just guessing you typed the wrong words, but as written, this would mean cops arent supposed to stop you from killing yourself

i realized the error in what i said, but personally, i dont think the cops should be allowed. if someone wants to kill himself, thats a choice he made toward himself that doesnt infringe on other peoples rights.
its like how i feel about weed. i think if you catch someone driving stoned, even though it doesnt impare you that much, lock em up, cause if they zone they could affect someone else. where as if they choose to smoke by themselves in there own home, harming nothing but their own lungs, cops shouldnt be allowed to pursue that.
suicide forces hipocritical issues. you dont know how many people ive heard say they are for the darwin angle of letting the herd thin itself out, and then they say people shouldnt kill themselves. wouldnt suicide be example #1 of thinning the herd. plus how can you force someone to do something they dont want to do?

and dont say oh but we force people into prisons, cause those people did something to warrant that. people who want to kill themselves didnt commit a crime.

otherwise, go arrest everyone who has willingly inflicted injury to themselves. wouldnt the jackass people be law breakers?

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This message was edited by Snoogans on 11-6-03 @ 6:34 PM

[JohnnyCash]

I dont think anyone has the right to tell a woman she cant have an abortion. Its important to keep that their desicion.

Thanks to Reefdwella for the great Sig Pic.
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[Snoogans]

this particualr form of abortion has always made my skin crawl. Just look at the diagram above, and if you think it's okay, youre sick

thats exactly what i meant by half truths. that diagram, if teenweek bothered to look up things and know what he is talkin about, isnt practiced at abortion clinics. abortions in the US generally take place when the fetus is about the size of a half dollar. its a little different then whatever sick biased cartoon this ass clown dug up.

but then again, why should we know what we are talkin about before hand

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[Mike Teacher]

the government cant stop you from doin anything to yourself.


There are literally hundreds of laws detailing precisely and exactly things that a person can get locked up for doing to themselves. Ditto with Speech.

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[high fly]

I love the fact that conservatives can't get the abortion albatross from around their necks.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Snoogans]

high fly, you now get a big FUCK YOU if that was meant for me. didnt i say before im not labeled. am i conservative on the abortion issue, if that means im for it. to be honest, i have no idea what it means to be a conservative, cause i hate politics, and i dont care. this is my opinion on abortion, i have my opinions on everything. im sure some could be considered this, some that, some inbewteen. bring on your fuckin stereotypes. people who tell me i think something because im a democrat are as biased as people who hate blacks and say they are criminals because they are black

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EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[Snoogans]

There are literally hundreds of laws detailing precisely and exactly things that a person can get locked up for doing to themselves. Ditto with Speech.


yes we do, because they affect other people. i have freedom of speech, but if i walk around the mall and yell cokcsucker all day, that infringes on others rights not to have to hear that.

but if im in my room, i can say anything i want and not get in trouble. someone who goes into there room alone and wants to die, we should not be allowed to say no your not allowed.


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EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[reeshy]

its a little different then whatever sick biased cartoon this ass clown dug up.


Snoogans,
This is NOT a made up "cartoon"!!!!! This is exactly how partial-birth abortions are performed. Also, many of these "fetus's" are viable human beings-meaning- they are capable of staying alive on their own.

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[high fly]

SNOOGANS: When I'm talking to you, I 'll use your name.
Then you'll know.

" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 11-6-03 @ 7:03 PM

[Snoogans]

Reeshy, you proved my point. i like you, but you didnt read. i never specified partial birth. are they done that way, yes, and they compose less than 10% of the abortions. therefore putting that cartoon and not specifying that abortions usually dont go down that way is wrong. plus, partial birth abortions are generally medically neccasary for the woman. they dont do them cause the women decided at 8months she doesnt want the kid

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TallJames is the man

EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
That song rips off Cut the Mullet
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[Armageddon]

COOMMING TO GET THE BABBY

SAVE O&A AND R&F!!!!!!!!!!!

[reeshy]

i like you


I like you, too, Snoogie-Woogie!!!!

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This message was edited by reeshy on 11-6-03 @ 7:07 PM

[high fly]

The cartoon left out the "extra stitch for Daddy".

" and they ask me why I drink"

[TheMojoPin]

What democrats consider not to be a human being

What the fuck?

Do you and Doomstone get together over tea and plan this shit or are you a moron all on your own?

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[high fly]

It's a club they've started up.
Not to worry, the Dumbass Club will fall apart soon.
They'll fuck that up too....

" and they ask me why I drink"

This message was edited by high fly on 11-6-03 @ 7:13 PM

[DarkHippie]

Late-term abortions are performed when the woman's health is at risk, or if the baby will be born severely disabled. Never simply because the woman doesn't want the child. Partial-brith abortions are used when there are no other choices, and make up 2% of all abortions.

What this ban does is take away an option that could potentially save a woman's life, or it would force her to raise a brain dead or retarded child. It takes choice away from people in very extreme circumstances, when that choice is desperately needed.

<img src=http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20031106/capt.nyet16911061550.abortion_nyet169.jpg>

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[keithy_19]

I look at it like this:

Its the same idea as a mother leaving her new born baby to die in a dumpster. The baby dies, thats murder. But its okay if its in a hospital? That doesn't make sense.

And they didn't ban abortion. They banned partial birth abortion. I think the judge is an asshole.

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[Cybersoldier]

I look at it like this:

Its the same idea as a mother leaving her new born baby to die in a dumpster. The baby dies, thats murder. But its okay if its in a hospital? That doesn't make sense.

And they didn't ban abortion. They banned partial birth abortion. I think the judge is an asshole.



So its okay if the baby has something wrong with it or puts the mother health in danger. The bill Congress pass, from what I learned didn't put anything that allow this aboration to be legal in case those situations occur. Also if a parent is unable afford for the kid who do you think is going to pay to help raise it? I'm pro-choice, Congress once again passes a bill that is unconstitutional and will be overturned in the supreme court

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[HBox]

I don't see how somebody could generally support abortion but be against this procedure. All abortion procedures have the same end result, don't they? Does the method matter all that much? Regular abortion procedures can't be much better.

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[Snoogans]

I don't see how somebody could generally support abortion but be against this procedure. All abortion procedures have the same end result, don't they? Does the method matter all that much? Regular abortion procedures can't be much better.

there are two things to 2 parts of this.
the pictured one is always done out of medical need. but its done that way to basically a baby.
the other is done by choice of the mother, but is done 90% of the time before you could even tell its a baby. they basically look like silver dollar sized tadpoles at that point.
the needed procedure is definately more inhumane, yet if not done could kill the mother too.
the other doesnt need to happen, but in terms of the two, is alot easier to handle in terms of humanity

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EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[walking joint]

i'd give my opinion, but i'm afraid Snoogans might tell me to Fuck off. these threads just aren't meant for me. see you in the wrestling forum.

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[Snoogans]

i'd give my opinion, but i'm afraid Snoogans might tell me to Fuck off

i told no one to fuck off based on their opinions. the only people i told to fuck off were the people who put me into a certain group based on my 1 opinion on this topic.
it was only cause they stereotyped me, i dont care what someones opinion is on a topic, thats up to them and occasionallly, i enjoy it to be different cause i like peaceful debates. i dont like when someone says im a Dem of conservative based on 1 thing

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EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[furie]

for starters, 90% of abortions occur before you could even tell it was a fetus.


true. but we're not talking about that. partial birth abortions take place late term, often at the 24th week.


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[high fly]

Good thing this discussion is a veritable helmet-fest, huh?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[DarkHippie]

the pictured one is always done out of medical need. but its done that way to basically a baby.I mostly agree with you here, but I don't think you can classify a 7 month old fetus as a baby. The picture that teenweek posted has a poor scale. babies don't gain size until the last half of their last trimester. A seven month fetus is still tiny.


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[furie]

ultimately I don't care about this issue. abort, don't abort, whatever. My problem lies with the judges going against the will of the people and their elected officials. Hell, why even have elections when judges can just do as they please.

The people want to recall a governor? no problem. Wait he's not a democrat? Find an obscure law with no baises in the US to block it! Same shit here.


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[Snoogans]

yea you got a point hippie, whatever we mean the same shit

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[carcass]

Jefferson himself said ..that if the U.S. was to ever fall....as a govt..it would be through abuses of the judiciary

face down in the gutter
wont admit defeat
thou his clothes are soiled and black
he's a big strong man , w/ a childs mind
dont you take his booze away

[TheMojoPin]

They banned partial birth abortion. I think the judge is an asshole.

This is the key issue for both sides that everyone seems to be missing.

First of all, I don't think ANYONE here thinks these things should be legal on the scale of "normal" abortions. There are too many complications.

BUT...this "banning"...would it not allow partial-birth abortions in cases where it was medically(sp?) necessary? It's not all that regular, but it DOES happen, as that childbirth is still one of the more dangerous procedures women can go through.

If the banning was partial and still allowed the above, then yes, the judge is unecessarily their bounds. If NOT, the banning had to be stopped. You need that little "gimme" in there if the pregnancy NEEDS to be terminated for dangerous medical reasons. No way around it.

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[TheMojoPin]

BEEP BEEP.

I WILL KILL YOU TWICE AS HARD TOMORROW.

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-7-03 @ 12:09 AM

[Snoogans]

what dont you guys who are against it understand. its an awful way to kill a fetus. but its only about 2% of the time they do it that way, and then, if they didnt, it would prob kill more than just the fetus.

by your view, your twice as wrong because by stopping it, you are knowingly killing women

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[shamus mcfitzy]

I'm pro-choice, Congress once again passes a bill that is unconstitutional and will be overturned in the supreme court



ultimately I don't care about this issue. abort, don't abort, whatever. My problem lies with the judges going against the will of the people and their elected officials. Hell, why even have elections when judges can just do as they please.


well these two posts basically describe what I think is the problem with some people's thinking. Ultimately 9 people have a say in what goes on in this country. There is absolutely no reason to be basing this discussion on "constitutional" terms because there are no such things. There is a basic Constitution that will never be changed, but once you get past all the obvious shit, everything goes out the window. The Supreme Court has all the power and it's kinda stupid because that makes our laws constantly bendable statutes that no one really needs to follow if they can find an out. And ultimately the fact that a guy appointed by Nixon can dictate laws 30 years later is ridculous.

But I still don't think that this judge's ruling is wrong. Things can get dangerous if we give 51% of people the right to tell an entire 100% what they can do. Judges are one of the ways that the minority can be protected in this country. The bill in question was completely fucked up and really had no chance of going through when it had no precautions for the woman's safety. And I still think that people will take issue with it even if safety outs are given.

[Teenweek]

I don't think you can classify a 7 month old fetus as a baby. The picture that teenweek posted has a poor scale. babies don't gain size until the last half of their last trimester. A seven month fetus is still tiny.


According to your logic my daughter is not a real baby than. She was born 6 weeks early. So that is 7 1/2 months into the pregnancy. She was 6 lbs and 13 oz's when she was born. There were 2 kids at the hospital that were born around 6 months. They were smaller and needed a lot of help but they are a child and there parents loved them. So according to you and the moron snoogans, it is perfectly normal to kill her and any child born before 8 months.

[DarkHippie]

According to your logic my daughter is not a real baby than. She was born 6 weeks early. So that is 7 1/2 months into the pregnancy. She was 6 lbs and 13 oz's when she was born. There were 2 kids at the hospital that were born around 6 months. They were smaller and needed a lot of help but they are a child and there parents loved them. So according to you and the moron snoogans, it is perfectly normal to kill her and any child born before 8 months.

That's not what late-term abortions are for. if an abortion would save the life of the mother, but birth would kill her, what choice would you make? According to this ban, there is no choice: the mother must die.

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[TheMojoPin]

There is a basic Constitution that will never be changed, but once you get past all the obvious shit, everything goes out the window. The Supreme Court has all the power and it's kinda stupid because that makes our laws constantly bendable statutes that no one really needs to follow if they can find an out. And ultimately the fact that a guy appointed by Nixon can dictate laws 30 years later is ridculous.

Which is is why issues like this, gun control and drug legality need to be handled on a state-by-state basis, whether we want it (And I often DON'T) or not.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-7-03 @ 12:12 PM

[carcass]

since abortion was leagalised.roughly 60,000,000.....babies have been aborted in the U.S. alone...2%...thats alot of partials...even if it was .001% ..thats too many





face down in the gutter
wont admit defeat
thou his clothes are soiled and black
he's a big strong man , w/ a childs mind
dont you take his booze away

[Snoogans]

alright carcass, so dont do them and kill all the fetus's and their mom's instead

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[Se7en]

I don't think you can classify a 7 month old fetus as a baby. The picture that teenweek posted has a poor scale. babies don't gain size until the last half of their last trimester. A seven month fetus is still tiny.


According to your logic my daughter is not a real baby than. She was born 6 weeks early. So that is 7 1/2 months into the pregnancy. She was 6 lbs and 13 oz's when she was born. There were 2 kids at the hospital that were born around 6 months. They were smaller and needed a lot of help but they are a child and there parents loved them. So according to you and the moron snoogans, it is perfectly normal to kill her and any child born before 8 months.

This is why I feel that all third trimester abortions should be banned (with possible exceptions for health of the mother), because you run into the issue of viability.

Jefferson himself said ..that if the U.S. was to ever fall....as a govt..it would be through abuses of the judiciary

There's a little bit of truth to this....not in that the judiciary can bring about the fall of the nation, but in the sense that the judiciary today - THROUGHOUT the judicial branch - had become incredibly politicized (on both sides of the political spectrum) and are thus interpreting the laws as their ideology suits them. You can chalk it up to human nature if you want, but bottom line, the law is meant to be impartial and unbiased, and we're not getting that.

BTW, though, Jefferson's remarks need to be taken with a grain of salt, as he absolutely LOATHED Justice Marshall of the Supreme Court. That little quote of his makes perfect sense if you go and read the landmark case of Marbury v. Madison, with a quick study of the history surrounding it.

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[furie]

Things can get dangerous if we give 51% of people the right to tell an entire 100% what they can do. Judges are one of the ways that the minority can be protected in this country.

51%? we're not talking about the 2000 Presidential election. the vast majorty our representatives were for this. I think the minority should be protected. So should the majority.


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[Snoogans]

This is why I feel that all third trimester abortions should be banned (with possible exceptions for health of the mother), because you run into the issue of viability.

thats the only time they do them is for the health of the mother. otherwise they dont let you have it

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EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
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[TheMojoPin]

This is why I feel that all third trimester abortions should be banned (with possible exceptions for health of the mother)

"Possible"?!?

The ONLY women who can LEGALLY (That is the key word as that this is what's being ruled upon) get them are those at severe health risk. There's no "maybe" or "possibly" to it.

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[TheMojoPin]

since abortion was leagalised.roughly 60,000,000.....babies have been aborted in the U.S. alone...2%...thats alot of partials...even if it was .001% ..thats too many

Actually, it's about 40 million. But hey, why not tack on another 20 million if it makes you feel better, right?

And AGAIN, have you NOT read the NUMEROUS posts that explained WHY partials are performed? Over a million are performed each year and only 2% are partials...BECAUSE THE PREGNANCY THREATENS THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER. You want to save the life of the child...but not that of the mother? MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND.

Before ANYONE else says something so infuriatingly retarded, read the damn stats.

Abortion Statistics - World

In 54 countries (61% of the world population) abortions are legal
In 97 countries (39% of the world population) abortions are illegal
There are approximately 46 million abortions conducted eacy year
There are approximately 126,000 abortions conducted each day
Abortion Statistics - U.S.

1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute.
88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions
43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old

Abortion Statistics - Demographics

Age - The majority of women getting an abortion are young. 55% are less than 26 years old and 21% are teenagers. The abortion rate is highest for those women aged 18 to 19 (56 per 1,000 in 1992.)
Marriage - 51% of women who are unmarried when they become pregnant will receive an abortion. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than married women to have an abortion.
Race - 63% of abortion patients are white, however, the abortion rate for non-white women is more than double that of white women.

Abortion Statistics - Decision to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby<
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career
7.9% of women want no (more) children
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health

Abortion Statistics - Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice

According to a USA Today, CNN Gallup Poll in May, 1999 - 16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.
According to a Callup Poll in January, 2001 - People who considered themselves to be pro-life rose from 33% to 43% in the past 5 years, and people who considered themselves to be pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%.

STATS SOURCE (http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm)

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-8-03 @ 12:55 AM

[furie]

In 54 countries (61% of the world population) abortions are legal
In 97 countries (39% of the world population) abortions are illegal


54+97=151 but there's 191 countires on the earth, but hey I guess 40 nations don't count towards the earth's population.


<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/tjfurie.jpg" height=100 width=300>

[TheMojoPin]

I'd assume that those remaining 40 countries don't have rulings one way or another on abortion. It doesn't have to be a legally contested issue if it's not contested in the first place.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[furie]

ok, that's fine. i assumed the same thing, but they're still part of the world's population.


<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/tjfurie.jpg" height=100 width=300>

[TheMojoPin]

This is true.

Hmmmm, something is screwy...

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[carcass]

40- mil...still too many...with the education and contros out there..[ oh they are all accidents]...too many


germinate a dope seed and invite a cop over...see if he dont get ya for growing dope..cons to dist?


I hear these aids adds about 20 milion people will die o aids..thats tha pop of aus .[ roughly]..


get it





and when ya meet st pete...splain that only a few are partial birth..like to see that go down.

face down in the gutter
wont admit defeat
thou his clothes are soiled and black
he's a big strong man , w/ a childs mind
dont you take his booze away

[Snoogans]

carcass your a fuckin idiot. this is talkin nothing about that kind of abortion. this issue is about medically necessary to the mother abortions, YOU STUPID ILLITERATE FUCKIN MORON

cause its only been said about TWO HUNDRED TIMES

http://home.comcast.net/~jamesgpatton/image004.jpg
TallJames is the man

EAT THAT FUCKIN SQUIRREL BABY!!!!!
That song rips off Cut the Mullet
Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

[carcass]

yeah , you must be right cause you spell better n i do.....



if the only abortions that were performed were for " mums heath"...that would be between them ....but the vast majority of them are done because selfish little pricks like yourself knock up your ho' girlfriend..and shes slept with sooo many guys she dont know who the dady is...and shes afraid to tell mom n dad ..so she waits...and then she tried to get all the slefish pricks like yourself to pay for it..and like demoan you cave....so you go to school and someone writes shit about what a little dick you got ....and then you take it out on people who dont use spell check.....

face down in the gutter
wont admit defeat
thou his clothes are soiled and black
he's a big strong man , w/ a childs mind
dont you take his booze away

[DarkHippie]

Carcass, you are truly someone who understands the real world. You must know and deal with pregnant woman all the time, traveling the world, knowing that the hardships they claim are all false, that they're just "Springer Hoes."

Those ivory tower liberals, know nothing compared to your worldliness.

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<marquee>"Last night I went running through the screen door of discression, for I woke up from a nightmare that I could not stand to see. You were a-wandering out on the hills of Iowa and you were not thinking of me." Dar Williams "Traveling III (Iowa)"</marquee>

[TooCute]

<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-02-27-abortion-records_x.htm">New news on the ban etc.</a>


I don't even really know what to say about it. I suppose that if you'd expect anyone to subpoena the medical records of women who have had abortions, it'd be John Ashcroft?

<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/toocute3.gif">

[angrymissy]

Toledo said several hundred records were being sought from Planned Parenthood affiliates that serve western Pennsylvania; San Diego; Los Angeles; New York City; Kansas/Mid-Missouri; and the Washington metro area.

wow.

myself, as well as at least 9 or 10 other women I know, had abortions at the Planned Parenthood in NYC.

Nice to know my rights can be trampled on and my medical records can be supenoead at a snap of the govenment's fingers. I don't trust anyone with my medical records besides my doctor.

<BR><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

[Snoogans]

if the only abortions that were performed were for " mums heath"...that would be between them ..

no obviously they all arent.

JUST THE TYPE WE BROUGHT UP IN THIS THREAD. this didnt have anything to do with standard abortions,

http://academ.hvcc.edu/~01885716/images/s_sig.jpg
http://www.snoogans.50megs.com/
Thanks monsterone Go SAUX!!!!!
Rollin down the Street, Smokin Endo, sippin on Gin & Juice Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

[FMJeff]

and teenweek, FUCK YOU about the democrats thing


Hey Snoogans...calm down dude....what's with the cursing everyone off....

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/fmjeff.gif">
<br>
It made my heart sing.

[Snoogans]

for one, it was so long ago i dont remember, i think he grouped me into something.

the fact i curse alot is nothing personal to anyone, i just do. i dont know why, i dont realize most of the time.

its nothing personal jeff, dont worry

http://academ.hvcc.edu/~01885716/images/s_sig.jpg
http://www.snoogans.50megs.com/
Thanks monsterone Go SAUX!!!!!
Rollin down the Street, Smokin Endo, sippin on Gin & Juice Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

[Dudeman]

I suppose that if you'd expect anyone to subpoena the medical records of women who have had abortions, it'd be John Ashcroft?


once again, if anyone says they don't think there is big difference between democrats and republicans (ie nader), i would imagine that the AG appointed by a democrat wouldn't do this.


-the dude is online-

[furie]

http://www.fcsl.edu/stratgov/images/msrenosm.jpg

you're right. they'd be completely ineffectual.


<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/fseye.jpg">
Assassins do it from behind.

[NewYorkDragons80]

yay! more reasons to get mad at government. isnt it unconstitutional to ban abortion, being that its your body. the government cant stop you from doin anything to yourself.
and plus, no, that baby ISNT a living person until its born, because if it wasnt connected to the parent, it would die. meaning until its born, that baby isnt alive
Wrong. The children killed as a result of partial-birth abortion are viable. Non-elected officials should not be legislators, whether you agree with their decisions or not. There are many living people who need others to live. I'm sure that if you took all the nurses from a nursing home, you would have a building filled with corpses in less than 48 hours. That doesn't mean the government isn't obligated to recognize them as citizens.

Since you are so assured of the superiority of your opinions, why do you rely on a panel of judges and not duly-elected legislators?

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 2-28-04 @ 3:01 PM

[NewYorkDragons80]

Nice to know my rights can be trampled on and my medical records can be supenoead at a snap of the govenment's fingers.
Now you have an inkling of how the unborn feel.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, I think a fetus DEFINITELY counts as "under 18."

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[furie]

Nice to know my rights can be trampled on and my medical records can be supenoead at a snap of the govenment's fingers.
Now you have an inkling of how the unborn feel.


wow


<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/fseye.jpg">
Assassins do it from behind.

[DarkHippie]

you're right. they'd be completely ineffectual.
But so fuckin HOT!!!

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<marquee>"Last night I went running through the screen door of discretion, for I woke up from a nightmare that I could not stand to see. You were a-wandering out on the hills of Iowa and you were not thinking of me." Dar Williams "Traveling III (Iowa)"</marquee>

[angrymissy]

The children killed as a result of partial-birth abortion are viable.

Not quite. Abortions are only legal in New York State up to 24 weeks. The chance of a fetus being viable before that point is sketchy. There have been cases of preemies being born before 24 weeks, as early as 22 weeks, but they have serious health issues for the rest of their lives. 24 weeks is basically when a fetus is considered viable. Most hospitals won't try to save a fetus born before 24 weeks.

It is illegal to perform an abortion after 24 weeks unless the fetus is not viable, or the mothers health is severely in danger.


Now you have an inkling of how the unborn feel.


My personal opinion is that my rights as a human being supersede the rights of a potential human being. IMO, its not a baby or a human until it's born.

Then again this will just turn into an argument that goes around and around in circles like it does every time.

Regardless of the reason they're suponeaing medical records, the government has no damn right to see mine, whether its medical records related to abortion or bronchitis. And its not like the government asked the patients permission, or is even going to notify people that their records are being reviewed. Its total bs, regardless of the abortion issue.

<BR><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

[NewYorkDragons80]

Now you have an inkling of how the unborn feel.
My personal opinion is that my rights as a human being supersede the rights of a potential human being. IMO, its not a baby or a human until it's born.
And I respect your opinion, even though I disagree with it. I think life begins at fertilization and the government, whose is almost exclusively responsible for protecting its citizens, is obliged to protect "potential" life. Nevertheless, I'm also against the government snooping around at someone's medical records... most of the time.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[Dudeman]

Now you have an inkling of how the unborn feel.


sad? unhappy? angry that their constitutional rights were violated?


-the dude is online-

[mikeyboy]

Internal notes in the just-released papers of Justice Blackmun indicate that Roe v. Wade was nearly overturned by the 1992 Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040304/ap_on_go_su_co/blackmun_papers_8)

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This message was edited by mikeyboy on 3-4-04 @ 12:52 PM