Conundrum (LONG!!)

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

This is going to be a lengthy post, so if you have the attention span of an ant or plan to make a wisecrack, I suggest you move along.

A little background. I was friends with this woman from work. At first it was fun to hang out with her. She was divorced so she was a GREAT help to me through that. NO DOUBT about that.

Then I met my current boyfriend. It's a new relationship. Of course, we were bound to butt heads initially. The first 6 months were a little tough; nothing really "bad" by any stretch of the imagination.

My problem? I confided in her. Her husband left her for another woman so she automatically put up the template of her former marriage up to my relationship. Hence, my boyfriend didn't have a chance.

Oh, he TRIED to convince her he was nothing but honorable. She decided he was trying to "control" me and he was, "Just going to leave [me] eventually."

Of course, me and my BF got into a rhythm and we found our way. I stopped talking about him all together with her, but she found ways to bring him up just to disparage him:


At a bar:
Her: Oh! HE'S cute!
Me: Ehhh, he's ok.
Her: What do you know? Look who YOU'RE with!

I eventually stopped having lunch with her and hanging out with her. My BF wants NOTHING to do with her. And I don't blame him.

My conundrum? I found out today that her father committed suicide. He hanged himself. She found him. My heart went out to her. She confided in a friend she wanted to contact me because I know what it's like to lose both parents (her mom died of cancer 15 months ago). BUT!!! I also heard, from several reliable sources, she bad mouthed my boyfriend, me (I am a weak female and he's trying to control me, after all), and my relationship. ALL IN THE SAME BREATH.

Look, yes, I want to be there for her. She's hurting and I know finding her dad was major trauma. But I can't deal with her bad mouthing my relationship.

What would you do?

PS-- I know what I SHOULD do. Relationship aside. I just need a little support and a hug or something. Thanks!



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[mikeyboy]

Alice -

If you're able to be there for a person who is hurting that you
really don't consider a friend any more, that is an amazingly
magnanimous quality. By the same token, if you can't/won't be
there for her, absolutely no one can cast blame on you. Support
her as much as you are willing or able to. She can't ask any
more than that.

And not to make light of this too much, but you call this long?
This is like one of the Chairman's sneezes. :)


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This message was edited by mikeyboy on 12-11-03 @ 10:37 AM

[Death Metal Moe]

Honestly, let her go.

While I am not un-sympathetic to her situation, you DO NOT NEED HER back in your life. She will try to stick her nose where it doesn't belong again..

Well, OK. If you HAVE to see her again, tell her the FUCKING SECOND she starts in about your boyfriend that she should keep her goddamned mouth shut cause you're happy and you can think for yourself.

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[Arienette]

i agree with everything mikeyboy said...

being that she helped you with your divorce and all when you needed her, i would probably try to help her in whatever way you can feel comfortable doing now. and maybe you can comfort her without really becoming close friends with her again. once she's doing a little better, and a little time passes, if you don't feel that you can remain friends with her becuase of the things she's said (completely understandable), then you don't have to.

you and michael are a great couple, and you know that you will be so regardless of what anyone has to say. it seems that you want to try to help her (even if it's against your better judgment in a sense), so i think you should.

good luck.


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[TheGameHHH]

i'm giving this to you as simple as I can, be a friend. this is a time in your life when you're being called upon to do something good and helpful for somebody else, you being there for her would mean a lot. throwing her aside and not helping her through this isn't going to solve anything and worst of all it could end your relationship permenantly. just step up and help somebody in need.

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[KennethC]

This is tricky. It sounds like she said some pretty hurtful things and doesn't respect certain boundaries. However, I'm sure her negative feelings towards your relationship are projections of her own jealousy, fears and insecurities. They probably have little to do with you and/or your boyfriend.

That being said, it does sound like she really needs you right now, as she's experiencing great pain. I suppose you can let her know that in order for you to be there for her, she needs to accept that you're happy in your current relationship. Furthermore, she needs to respect your judgement, unconditionally. If she can't do that, then there is practically no basis for friendship there at all. It really is her decision.

Best of luck. I don't envy you having to deal with this grey area.

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This message was edited by KennethC on 12-11-03 @ 2:44 AM

[EQ]

I also agree with everything MikeyBoy said!


..questioning "what to do" means you are already considering extending your support.

It's the right thing to do, and you can rise above her previous pettiness, at least for now. I KNOW this is tricky, but you also have a good heart, Fuzzy. And this is an awful thing for her to deal with. Does she have plenty of friends.. I mean, would it be a big oversight if you didn't contact her at all? Or, would just sending a card and flowers be even more inappropriate?

She is a former colleague, right? If so, then you have the option to help where you want to - without feeling obligated to see her on a day-to-day basis.

If you talk again and she happens to mention you..or about your relationship, answer with something positive and brief, and make her realize YOU are changing the subject back to her problem. At some point, hopefully she may get the idea that you were( are ) there again to be supportive of her current situation, but THAT'S ALL.
If it's STILL too awkward for you, just remember that she is in a whole lot of pain and may lash out with a whole other subtext in mind. If THAT happens, You can then choose NOT to see or talk with her again, after that.

Good Luck, Fuzzy.


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[Mike Teacher]

This is tricky.


Not for me, for the short term.

This lady, irrespective of the relationship; has gone through an experience none of us can imagine unless it happened to us. Not me. Not you [collective all of us 'you'].

My guess is, for me, if this happened to me? That I might just be on the edge of sanity, literally, for a while. I don't know. No one does.

But if I knew this is what happened to the lady, I wouldn't care much at first what came out of her mouth; which would be difficult if indeed she turned whatever energy this has created against others. Like you and, and the BF. That's got to suck no matter what.

The worst fucking Gloats in the world are the 'I knew this dude and this happened to them' and people who compare Disaster stories in life. Having said that, boom, in 1984 two guys i was in a band with climbed a train and we're electrocuted on the spot. We were all of 21. These parents watched the body bags come off the trains on Live at 5.

This is an experience I would really prefer not to repeat, because out of the four parents, two were absolute Zombies. All my BS here [and You call your posts long? My Edits are Longer. I am the FAT BASTARD OF POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!] is trying to relate that these people who had this experience of witnessing or being part of such a horrific death [and I refer to how person was found] might need some Port in a Storm, and my *Guess* is that I would take one for the team, at first, and just try to comfort her, and whatever was hurled my way? I'd do my best to Let It Go.

Phhhht... so easy to say...

Alice, I read the post twice, if only out of respect for anyone who has had to endure one like this. I've seen this shit from several perspectives, my Father's death, which was fine, but there were moments when I was like, 'wow, I could really just check out of the Motel Reality here, it would be pretty nice actually...'. I could almost feel the 'pull' of the brain to disconnect; and this disconnect has been seen, and may well be a bodies way of dealing with such a trauma.


As I'm about to hit 'reply' i have a feeling i've gotten maybe 50% of what is in my head about this in words here. I really have No clue here. My apologies. Take the good, ignore the bad.

Lo Siento Mucho, Amiga


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This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 12-11-03 @ 12:54 AM

[reeshy]

I agree whole-heartedly with Mike. Right now this woman needs all the support that she can get. Forget, for now, the past. Alice, from what I know of you, you are a very compassionate woman and deep down, I know that your heart is going out to your "friend". She needs you now more than you need her and let the future take care of itself. I know you'll do what your heart tells you. Good luck!

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[sr71blackbird]

This is a tuffy. On the one hand you can show that your compassion is larger then your tolerance for her ignorance in her undermining your relationship. On the other hand, she seems to desire you to not be in a relationship so that you two can be single buddys again. Why would you help her after shes tried to hurt your happyness? Because your better than her! Keep your guard up on her though, and if she starts her shit, show her the palm of your hand and say " 'STOP', look what I did for you? Your undermining me."

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[Tall_James]

I feel for you on this one Alice. And it is a conundrum. I would reach out to her during this time of need. Know that it is not a long term committment to a close friendship, she has shown that she is incapable of having that with you. In her time of need, and if you feel strongly enough about it, help her to ease her pain.

You're a really great person who shouldn't be second guessed by someone who hasn't walked in your shoes.


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[A.J.]

I think you should reach out to her to at least offer condolences. If she needs to talk, you should be there (since you have, as you said, been through the loss of a parent).

BUT, if she starts making digs at your boyfriend I'd let her have it by saying something brutally honest like "Not all men are the same. Do you really want to be completely alone for the rest of your life?" Maybe that will sink in with her.

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[Mike Teacher]

You're a really great person who shouldn't be second guessed by someone who hasn't walked in your shoes.


why do people write succinct, thoughtful remarks that say it all; while others babble on and on like, um, me?

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[FUNKMAN]

just send a Sympathy card 'but that's it'... she's a grown woman who needs to find her way on her own or with the support of her family...

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and when you're bad you die when you die

[blakjeezis]

First off, she is kinda right, you could do better. But that's not the point.

Extending a hand of friendship to someone who, although she has wronged you is in great need of support, is truly a wonderful, kind act. If you forget about all the silliness and falsehood of The Church and just listen to the Word, Jesus said, "But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well", there is no more perfect example than this situation. You know me, I'm not some crazy, bible-thumping fundamentalist, but I do try and follow the teachings of Jesus, among others. Aiding this woman is truly in the sprit of Christmas. The comfort you could offer her, even in the face of her insult, is probably the best gift you could give to anyone this year.

Plus, if you look at it from a selfish persepective, it may make her realize the kind of person you truly are and that you are capable of handling your relationship without her.

Wow, do I sound like a kook or what?

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This message was edited by blakjeezis on 12-11-03 @ 9:10 AM

[wilee]

P-

You can extend your condolences and share some experiences with her. If she brings up your relationship, just steer the conversation back to her and her parents.

At some point in time, (obviously after she's in a better frame of mind), and she brings up your current relationship, you should be straightforward about how you don't agree with her assessment of it, and that it bothers you that she keeps putting him down. If she's a reasonable person, she'll get it. If not, you can sever ties with her again. Good luck.

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[Tall_James]

why do people write succinct, thoughtful remarks that say it all; while others babble on and on like, um, me?

I got that line from a greeting card. It had Scooby-Doo on the front.


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[newport king]

just send a Sympathy card 'but that's it'... she's a grown woman who needs to find her way on her own

thats some cold hearted shit funkman.

~another newport king joint~

[newport king]

look you said she helped you out in your divorce, you should be a friend to her right now to at least pay back that favor. and i really hope while she's crying on your shoulder about her dead father she doesnt say to you about how big of a dick your boyfriend is. this should mostly be about her and if she does do that, she's got fucking problems.

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[high fly]

You said your heart went out to her when you got the news.
So express that in a nice card.
Keep it short and sweet.

Your trouble with her over your boyfriend is another issue.
Keep the two separate.

When this is over with and she call- be busy or something if you can't avoid the tacky comments about your boyfriend.
Expressing sympathy for her loss does not obligate you to be her best friend or anything else.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Jennitalia]

as fucked up as what she has said about you and Skid is, I think you should try to put that aside for the moment and try to be there for her. you'd probably be of great comfort, as you know what she's going through, and you are just a fantastic person to have as a friend. i doubt she'd start in with her crap with you now.. and who knows, what has happened to her may help her look at things (you and Michael) in a whole new perspective, and not as something she once had and then lost.

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[Tall_James]

Alice - I hope this picture makes you feel better.

<img src=http://www.infinitedensity.net/music/copeland/images/sc78a.jpg>


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[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Ok, I've decided to start the ball rolling by sending her a sympathy card. In it I wrote:



I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I can't imagine what you must be going through. Remember, there is no right or wrong way to feel. People grieve in all sorts of ways. Just take care of yourself and hold on to your family. Give me a call if you need anything.


I'll see what happens. If she comes to me, I will make sure the focus is on HER. I'll just change the subject if she brings up my relationship. I am still pretty bitter about the callous comments she's made, but I'm willing to put my feelings aside for now and help her the best I can.

I feel a rant coming on. I'll save it for later.

Thanks for all the support and advice guys. I really appreciate it. :)

P. Fuzz

EDIT: Thanks James! Stewart Copeland hits my sweet spot every time! :p

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This message was edited by Alice S. Fuzzybutt on 12-11-03 @ 8:34 PM

[high fly]

May I suggest:

"I am so sorry to hear of your loss.
My heart goes out to you and your family.
You are in my thoughts and prayers."


--your friend, Alice

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

you are just a fantastic person to have as a friend.


Awww, thanks Jen! That means a lot to me!!!

And thanks, high fly, for the advice. I'm confident in the words I chose.

Any more Stewart Copeland pics? :p

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She said Jesus had a twin who knew nothing about sin.

[The Chairman]

I was getting all psyched for a long post. :-(

It is a conundrum and everyone's advice, if not the same, seems reasonable to me.

But I'm all about loyalty. You don't fuck with my peeps. If you fuck with my girl or my friends you fuck with me.

Good for you for taking the high road and sending a simple card; shows you're bigger than she.

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[Arienette]

Any more Stewart Copeland pics? all you had to do was ask..


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[Death Metal Moe]

Even after all the above advice, I feel I MUST STRESS the fact that you should limit your contact with this woman if she ended up being to fucking nosey with your relationship.

You gotta worry about #1 too Fuzzybutt. Being there for friends and returning favors are important, but so is making sure you're happy.

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[Tenbatsuzen]

To reiterate: Be there for her, but if she goes back to insulting Whitey, then drop the hammer.

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[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Good for you for taking the high road and sending a simple card; shows you're bigger than she.


Well, don't pat me on the back yet. The card is still in my bag. I pass at least two mailboxes AND a post office on my way to work.



<IMG SRC=http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/alicesig.jpg>

She said Jesus had a twin who knew nothing about sin.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

I mailed the card but I was a dickish about it.

I mailed it from my boyfriend's house, THUS it will have a Toms River stamp. She lives in the next town over. Chances are she won't even notice, BUT, if she did, it would irk her.

Why did I do that? I remembered this conversation:

Her: Seaside Heights gets so crowded during the summer.

Me: Yeah, that's why when I'm down here, Michael does all the driving.

Her: That's because he's trying to control you.

Me: No, he lived in Seaside. He knows the town.

Her: You're so naive.

<b>Three weeks later...</b>

Her: Oh my God! I got a ticket in Seaside Heights! I drove the wrong way down a one way street. Seaside can be SO confusing.

Me: Well now you know why I have Michael drive.

Yeah, those of you who know him know what a dick he is. :)

Yeah, I took the high road, but not without a little jab.

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She said Jesus had a twin who knew nothing about sin.

[high fly]

Yeah, that was dickish and I hope she doesn't notice.
Look, someone died. Next time, stay on topic.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Arienette]

Yeah, that was dickish and I hope she doesn't notice.
Look, someone died. Next time, stay on topic.first of all, even if she does notice, fuzzybutt really hasn't done anything wrong by it. there's a rule against sending mail from someplace other than your local post office? we know what the motivation was but, as far as this woman is concerned, there's nothing going on here that would hurt her. also, fuzzybutt is going past what she probably feels completely comfortable with (ie: associating with a person who has hurt her in the past continually) in order to extend her condolences and offer help. so i don't think any of us can fault her for being a little conflicted and doing what she did.

i really don't think it's a big deal, and i still think you did the right thing here, fuzzybutt.

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This message was edited by Arienette on 12-13-03 @ 12:48 PM

[Katylina]

I think sending it from her boyfriend's house is just fine. She's nicer than I am. When someone gets on my shitlist that's where they stay. I give her credit for being so kind and loving.

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[high fly]

Arienette, I must disagree. She tried to get in a subtle dig while consoling someone over the death of her father.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[mikeyboy]

High Fly, this girl is lucky to get any consoling at all. I think it's pretty big of Alice to look past the bitchy things that this woman has done and reach out to her. Many people I know wouldn't even consider that. Personally, I can hold one hell of a grudge against anyone who has said or done anything against someone I care about.

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[A.J.]

Her: That's because he's trying to control you.

Me: No, he lived in Seaside. He knows the town.

Her: You're so naive.

Man, what a bitter woman. Does she live in a house full of cats?

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[Zipgun]

Man, what a bitter woman. Does she live in a house full of cats?




No...


That would be Alice.

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[high fly]

[quote]High Fly, this girl is lucky to get any consoling at all. I think it's pretty big of Alice to look past the bitchy things that this woman has done and reach out to her. Many people I know wouldn't even consider that. Personally, I can hold one hell of a grudge against anyone who has said or done anything against someone I care about.


For the most part, I agree with you. She could very easily have done nothing and no one woulda said anything.
It WAS big of her to send her condolences, but to use that as a way to get in a dig just ain't right.
Wanna argue that it was?
Of course not.
Concede the point, Mikey.

" and they ask me why I drink"

[mikeyboy]

Wanna argue that it was?


Not particularly


Concede the point, Mikey.


Nope. It comes down to a matter of opinion. I don't think it was a big deal. You do. No amount of arguing will likely make either of us change our minds.

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[high fly]

Oh yeah?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[mikeyboy]

Yeah.

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[high fly]

Oh yeah?

Sez who?

" and they ask me why I drink"