Ephedra - OUT!

[curtoid]

U.S. Bans Ephedra, Drug Linked to Deaths (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20031230/ap_on_he_me/ephedra_20)

[KOP]

[TooCute]

This has been long overdue.

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[Tall_James]

I have a half-full bottle of Stacker 2..chock full of Ephedra. Bidding starts at $5.


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[Spank Daddy]

As long as they don't ban Horny Goat Weed, I'll be fine.

"I'll give up my bottle of Horny Goat Weed when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers"



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[TheMojoPin]

I'll take "painfully, kick-in-the-jimmy-obvious" for $500, Alex.


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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Tenbatsuzen]

Hmmm.

The government bans Ephedra because 100 people die?

Sorry, folks, I'm pro-ephedra. If you look at the statistics, the people who died were a product of darwinism - simply not reading the instructions or taking too much.

Korey Stringer was an idiot.

Steve Bechler was an idiot.

Funny how they do this right before the new year, when the #1 resolution of most people is to lose weight.



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[TheMojoPin]

Sorry, folks, I'm pro-ephedra.

Why?

It's essentially a placebo.

But with speed.


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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Tenbatsuzen]

Why?

It's essentially a placebo.

But with speed.



I took Stacker 2 in a controlled environment under a doctor's supervision (why, yes, I DID talk to my doctor about Stacker 2!) while dieting and exercising.

I lost 150 pounds.

I only had one "incident" of my heart racing, and that was an isolated incident because I think I took two at once instead of one by accident.

I read the reports regarding Stringer and Bechler. They had too much Ephedra in their systems if they were following the instructions. Stringer was also wearing a skin-tight "weightloss" suit and working out in the hot summer sun.

I'm sorry, but if 100 people died because they were stupid, we would have banned alcohol and tobacco a while ago. I would have pushed for ephedra regulation, but not a complete ban.




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[TheMojoPin]

Death hardly has to be the only medical complication to have something like that pulled.

Methinks that's the case.

And you lost the weight on your own. Give yourself more credit.


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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[TooCute]

I'm sorry, but if 100 people died because they were stupid, we would have banned alcohol and tobacco a while ago. I would have pushed for ephedra regulation, but not a complete ban.

Except that people making products with ephedra don't have quite the lobbying power that the tobacco and alcohol folks do.
Also, not everyone that's died from it has died due to taking it improperly, or "stupidity" as you call it, unless you count their taking it in the first place as stupidity. You also have to understand that the 100 or so deaths aren't the only incidents of harmful side effects. People have suffered strokes, heart attacks, etc.

A single dose of the recommended amount CAN cause death in some people, and that's all you need to know. It's being marketed as safe, and it's NOT safe for everyone. That it hasn't had any negative effects or that your doctor said it was okay for you, personally, does not mean that it is safe; it affects different people differently.

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[MizzleTizzle]

I lost 100 pounds, and that plant is known as toxic, has also been known as toxic, and if 100 people were stupid the 1000+ that were hospitalized or treated in ERs but be idiots too.

Losing 150 pounds is wonderful. Diet and Exercise will do that. That the supplement was the factor in your weight loss, is supposition. Yes, people can lose weight on a stimulant. Any stimulant. Like the adrenaline that makes your heart beat, which is related to epinephrine, which is related to ephedrine, up the line.

I lost 100 pounds, and I eat about 3 Big Mac meals a week; by this logic, I should be the Jared Spokesman of McDonalds by now. It must have been a factor.

Again; congrats on anyone losing 150. But if it was Ephedra, and taking 2 made your heart race, I'd personally say No. But, hey Well done!

Oh, and the Olympics, NFL, and NCAA banned Ephedra or its alkaloids, ephedrine and psuedoephedrine for some time.

This message was edited by MizzleTizzle on 12-31-03 @ 12:30 PM

[TooCute]

And I've lost 25 lbs on a bacon diet. Woo hoo, go us!! :)

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[Tenbatsuzen]

And you lost the weight on your own. Give yourself more credit.



Oh, make no mistake - I know it took a ton of work and willpower to do this. But the ephedra helped me get "over the hump".



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[MizzleTizzle]

Oh, make no mistake - I know it took a ton of work and willpower to do this. But the ephedra helped me get "over the hump".


If it worked for you; 150 pounds is worth it.

I guess I'm pissed of at two things:

1. The claims made by some of the manufacturers of these supplements; 'Walk On Water' seems to be about the only thing some company hasn't claimed it can help you do yet. It's known to do two things, as far as I know; be a stimulant, and dialate your pipes.

2. Every time I think of Stacker 2 I think of, ya know, Horny Goat Weed, and then Back to some AFRO...sigh... [tear]

[Tenbatsuzen]

Why do you think the tagline for Stacker 2 during reads on WNEW was Have you talked to your doctor about Stacker 2?

It says, right there on the label, CONSULT A PHYSICIAN.

TooCute's exactly right about the ephedra lobby not having the same power, especially when it's going up against the friggin' NFL and MLB.

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[TooCute]

It says, right there on the label, CONSULT A PHYSICIAN.

Too bad that hasn't gotten Metabolife out of all its lawsuits.

Also, all the warnings to consult a doctor in the world aren't going to help when these ephedra products have the awful quality control that they do. The amount of ephedra in a single pill can vary immensely.

Ephedra is dangerous. If you need speed to help you lose weight have your doctor prescribe it to you. Not that Dexedrine or Desoxyn are necessarily any safer, but at least they're not OTC.

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[JohnnyCash]

And I've lost 25 lbs on a bacon diet. Woo hoo, go us!! :)



Really? How'd you do that-I could lose a few and eating bacon all day seems like the perfect way.

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Thanks to Reefdwella for the great Sig Pic.

[TooCute]

Really? How'd you do that-I could lose a few and eating bacon all day seems like the perfect way.

Atkins. Come on, get with the times, man!!!

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[JustJon]

I lost 100 pounds, and I eat about 3 Big Mac meals a week; by this logic, I should be the Jared Spokesman of McDonalds by now. It must have been a factor.
But I thought Jared had aids.

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[A.J.]

But I thought Jared had aids.

No -- I think that was "Ayds".

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A Skidmark production.

Red Sox Nation

[TooCute]

This study found that use of ephedra is associated with a much greater risk of adverse reactions compared with other herbs; therefore, its use should be restricted. Data on adverse events associated with use of ephedra and other herbal products were obtained from the American Association of Poison Control Centers Toxic Event Surveillance System Database 2001 Annual Report. Products containing ephedra accounted for 64% of all adverse reactions to herbs in the United States, yet these products represented only 0.82% of herbal product sales.

(from <a href="http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0822/7_103/105682363/p2/article.jhtml?term=">The Annals of Internal Medicine)</a>

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[TheMojoPin]

Just counter it with a capfull of Ritalin and you'll be fine.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[curtoid]

I hated Stacker 2; it really messed with my system bad. Tenbatsuzen I'm glad (and impressed, and a little jealous) that you lost so much weight with that.

I've tried Atkins, and I do well with it when I can finally get on it - lots of starts and stops. Once I'm on it, though, I actually feel a lot better, and can lose some weight.

Last spring I did pretty well just on my own, simply eating less, and eating a little smarter. I cut out all fast food, and was making progress, until an evil friend of mine told me about the McGriddle - Satan's pancake meal! Eeeeeesh.

I think I have the proper motivation never to eat fast food again: during the holidays I finally read "Fast Food Nation."

[KOP]

[Tenbatsuzen]

Hmmm.

Even though Ephedra is gone, it's more effective chemical cousin Ephedrine HCL is still around.

This is... intriguing.





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[Tenbatsuzen]

More explanation:

The FDA banned the herbal compound Ephedra for use in Weight Loss products., because it's unregulated and potentially dangerous.

However, it does allow the pure chemical Ephedrine HCL, which is what the herbal formula tries to reproduce.

Ephedra = stinkweed

Ephedrine HCL = the medical marijuana maui wowie good shit.



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[TooCute]

Are you sure?

Firstly, ephedra (the herb) doesn't try to 'reproduce' ephedrine (the chemical). Ephedra (the herb) works because it is the original SOURCE of the chemical (ephedrine) - the ephedrine pills that you can buy simply contain the synthetic form of the active ingredient in ephedra (which is ephedrine).

In any case, minor distinctions aside, the reason that it is still possible to obtain the drug ephedrine, as I understand it, is not because ephedrine wasn't banned - it was - but because it was, I think, by and large only banned for use when marketed as a weight loss supplement. I haven't looked but I'm thinking that there were a lot of exceptions in the law when they wrote it.

I am under the impression that it is still possible to get it without a prescription as a vasodilator - but you can't find it just sitting on the shelf. You'd have to ask your pharmacist or you'd have to mail-order it. But then, I've never looked for it so I'm not entirely positive.

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[Tenbatsuzen]

Are you sure?

Firstly, ephedra (the herb) doesn't try to 'reproduce' ephedrine (the chemical). Ephedra (the herb) works because it is the original SOURCE of the chemical (ephedrine) - the ephedrine pills that you can buy simply contain the synthetic form of the active ingredient in ephedra (which is ephedrine).



You are correct. I'm not a science major, but the point still remains - the herb formulation is a raw form of what you're trying to get. Ephedrine HCL is the pure, refined stuff, which in turn makes it more effective than the herbs.


In any case, minor distinctions aside, the reason that it is still possible to obtain the drug ephedrine, as I understand it, is not because ephedrine wasn't banned - it was - but because it was, I think, by and large only banned for use when marketed as a weight loss supplement.


Also correct. I noted that though. I'm pretty sure that the loophole is for morons who would OD on ephedra/ephedrine in weight loss supplements wouldn't be smart enough to look for it in other products. Also probably because you wouldn't want to punish the people who are using the Ephedrine for other purposes (and it working effectively) because a few people got a bright idea to take 10x the proper dosage of ephedra and then work out on a hot summer day.


I am under the impression that it is still possible to get it without a prescription as a vasodilator - but you can't find it just sitting on the shelf. You'd have to ask your pharmacist or you'd have to mail-order it. But then, I've never looked for it so I'm not entirely positive.


In order to replicate the thermogenic/fat burner effects of Stacker 2, you need to combine the ephedrine with two other over-the-counter drugs. In fact, Stacker got it's name because you are "stacking" the drugs together in a certain ratio to get the desired effects.

I will say this - if you are looking for ephedrine, it's readily available in a name brand OTC medication, and combined with the two other OTC drugs, it's actually about 5-7 dollars CHEAPER than buying a bottle of Stacker.

You are correct in saying you need a vasodialotor, but you don't have to ask a pharmacist.



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[LiquidCourage]

The harmful effects of ephedra are blown out of proportion. 100 people or so, out of millions who use it, die. Those are quite good odds, and far less than some of the other products you can just go pick up at the store.

[TooCute]

You are correct in saying you need a vasodialotor, but you don't have to ask a pharmacist.

Not if you buy it online - but are you sure about that in a pharmacy? I've never seen ephedrine out on the counter - I've seen it behind the pharmacy counter though. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with pseudoephedrine, which does not have the same side effects as ephedrine, but IS available easily OTC as a vasodilator (like sudafed?).

The harmful effects of ephedra are blown out of proportion. 100 people or so, out of millions who use it, die. Those are quite good odds, and far less than some of the other products you can just go pick up at the store.


Not really, as far as OTC drugs taken as directed are concerned.


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[Tenbatsuzen]

The Ephedrine available over the counter isn't labeled as such - it's an asthma medication - but if you look at the active ingredients, you'll see that most of the popular Asthmatic OTC medications have either Ephedrine HCL or Ephedrine Sulfate in them.

Trust me on this - I went into shoprite today and bought the Asthma medication, and the other two OTC meds, went to the pharmacy counter, had the pharmacist ring me up, and he didn't even ask me a single question.





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