Who's the American Liberal's best choice for Dem?

[SatCam]

I've been watching a lot of debates and shit, and I'm really interested in who a "real american liberal" would want as their canidate for the vote in 2004. Although I dont share ideas with the left, it really interests me to see if people really want a Howard Dean or Al Sharptin as their President. Definatly not Howard Dean. Nor Mr. Liberman. I don't want him as my senator, or as my President.

I was watching the Idaho (I think, or else Ohio) debate from this past weekend on PBS/C-SPAN and all it was was Liberman attacking Dean, and Dean shitting his pants. That really sunk into my skin. It's better to just keep your peace then target another canidate.

DISCUSS!

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[TheMojoPin]

Can I pick "none of the above"?

And yet so many liberal will flock to these mutts just because they're NOT Bush. They sure had no problem doing that with Gore during the last election.

Pathetic.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-8-04 @ 5:02 PM

[monsterone]

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[A.J.]

who a "real american liberal" would want as their canidate for the vote in 2004

Dennis Kucinich?

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[HBox]

None of them are my dream candidate, but I'd take any of them other than Kucinich, Sharpton or Braun as president over Bush.

And yet so many liberal will flock to these mutts just because they're NOT Bush. They sure had no problem doing that with Gore during the last election.

You make this sound like a bad thing. President Bush is so ideologically opposite of me that he would be almost my last choice as President. Add to his beliefs the rampant lying, misleading, and secretiveness of his administration and I hope against hope he's gone. I'm not going to find the candidate that perfectly represents my views but who does? This is about making a decision about what's best for the country. In the end, you'll only have two choices, and neither will be perfect. It's up to you decide which is better. Just because people are writing off Bush doesn't make them pathetic. Everybody in this country as of now has had three years to make their decision. If they are looking for any alternative, they have something real to base that on.

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[East Side Dave]

Is Pat Buchanan running this year? He's liberal, right?

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[TooCute]

Ehh.... I'm not really into voting for the "lesser of two evils", usually I save my vote for when I actually care. I voted for Nader last time. It's entirely possible that I won't cast a vote for president this time around since I simply think most everyone sucks. I have no problem with casting a vote for what you think is the best for this country, do that if you want, I can understand it entirely, but it's not what I do :)

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[TheMojoPin]

Just because people are writing off Bush doesn't make them pathetic.

To me it does if it means they automatically flock to candidates who have done NOTHING to indicate they are any different or better than Bush. I'm looking past ideology to basic ability to do the job, or the people they'll bring with them...as many gripes as I have with Bush, the Democrats haven't presented anyone who isn't as bad or even worse.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[serVice]

The election seems to be moving away from the "lesser of two evils" arena, and into the "damned either way" arena. If you really don't like the state of things, and the ways they seem to be heading, just vote : "none of the above." (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/35257/page/None_of_the_above.htm)

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[HBox]

To me it does if it means they automatically flock to candidates who have done NOTHING to indicate they are any different or better than Bush. I'm looking past ideology to basic ability to do the job, or the people they'll bring with them...as many gripes as I have with Bush, the Democrats haven't presented anyone who isn't as bad or even worse.

That's all really a matter of opinion. If you think Bush has run this country into the ground, it really doesn't take much to be better than him. Or, if you have a really high opinion of a certain candidate, it doesn't matter what your opinion of Bush is.

I honestly think Clark or Dean would make good Presidents. And I could live with Kerry, Gephardt, and even Lieberman.

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[Se7en]

Just because people are writing off Bush doesn't make them pathetic.

No, it does. It really, really does.

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[high fly]

Mojo, who would you like to see run?

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[TheMojoPin]

Out of the available choices?

None.

Out of ANYONE in politics?

I'd have to get back to you.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[sr71blackbird]

everyone I ever voted for has lost, so I wont vote anymore.
What I mean is, Im basically a Republican, with conservative tendencies, but Im getting sick to death of the stupid mudslinging that goes on every election. Basically too, the opposition does whatever they can to derail the plans of whoever won, that it really doesnt seem to matter whos in there, so Ive given up. Put a facist in there for a while, maybe itll get some of the bullshit out
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This message was edited by sr71blackbird on 1-10-04 @ 9:48 PM

[keithy_19]

Wait wait wait. How has Bush done a bad job? Don't even bring up the eonomy because it was on the down trend while clinton was in office.

So what has Bush done?

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[BoondockSaint]

Wait wait wait. How has Bush done a bad job? Don't even bring up the eonomy because it was on the down trend while clinton was in office.

So what has Bush done?

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I don't know. I think he's funnier then a donkey eating a waffle.

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[newport king]

Wait wait wait. How has Bush done a bad job?

there's a war going on in iraq right now that alot of people still aren't behind, no matter how much they try to tie it into the war on terror.
not to mention a possible cover up of saudi arabia's role in the september 11th attacks.
alot of people in and out of this country disagree wholeheartedly with his foreign policy.
i know you said not to mention the economy, and you're right it was on a downturn but it hasn't really turned around at all.
most of all people just think he's kind on an idiot. its nothing personal people just don't like politicians in power so maybe they think a new guy will do a better job, but he won't and the cycle will start all over again.

~a newport king joint~

[HBox]

Wait wait wait. How has Bush done a bad job? Don't even bring up the eonomy because it was on the down trend while clinton was in office.

So what has Bush done?

Huge deficit.
Underfunding education.
Unneccessary war.
Gutting environmental standards.
Jobless "recovery."
Patriot Act.
For starters.

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[CruelCircus]

i know you said not to mention the economy, and you're right it was on a downturn but it hasn't really turned around at all.
Not criticising, but I think you need to update your research. It has turned. Feel free to debate to what extent, but you can't say it hasn't turned at all.
most of all people just think he's kind on an idiot. its nothing personal people just don't like politicians in power
Again, check your facts. Even opposition polls place Bush's approval ratings consistently over 50 % (often around 60%). So technically, MOST people like him.
you think Bush has run this country into the ground, it really doesn't take much to be better than him.
You'd have to have an extremely loose definition of "into the ground" to define the current state of affairs as such. Check out where we were in the late 70's for a minimal comparison's sake.


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[NewYorkDragons80]

Wesley Clark. He isn't really a liberal, but he is the Dems' best shot.

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[curtoid]

So what has Bush done?

* Cut $39 million from federal spending on libraries
* Cut $35 million in funding for advanced pediatric training for doctors
* Cut funding for research into renewable energy sources by 50 percent
* Delayed rules that would reduce "acceptable" levels of arsenic in drinking water
* Cut funding for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks by 28 percent
* Revoked rules strengthening the power of the government to deny contracts to companies that violate federal laws, environmental laws, and workplace safety standards
* Allowed Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton to request suggestions for opening up national monuments for foresting, coal mining, and oil and gas drilling
* Broken campaign promise to invest $100 million per year in rain forest conservation
* Reduced by 86 percent the Community Access Program, which coordinated care for people without health insurance among public hospitals, clinics, and other health care providers
* Nullified a proposal to increase public access to information about the potential ramifications of chemical plant accidents
* Cut funding for the Girls and Boys Clubs of America programs in public housing by $60 million
* Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol agreement on global warming, ultimately signed by 178 other countries
* Rejected an international accord to enforce the 1972 treaty banning germ warfare
* Cut $200 million from workforce training programs for dislocated workers
* Cut $200 million from the Childcare and Development grant, a program that provides child care to low-income families as they are forced from welfare to work
* Eliminated prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees (though Viagra is still covered)
* Cut $700 million in funds for public housing repairs
* Cut half a billion dollars from the Environmental Protection Agency's budget
* Made Monsanto executive Linda Fisher deputy administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency
* Nominated Michael McConnell, a leading critic of the separation of church and state, to a federal judgeship
* Announced plans to allow oil drilling in Montana's Lewis and Clark National Forest
* Threatened to shut down the White House AIDS office
* Decided no longer to seek guidance from the American Bar Association on federal judicial appointments
* Denied college financial aid to students convicted of misdemeanor drug charges (though convicted murderers are still eligible for financial aid)
* AIlocated only 3 percent of the amount requested by Justice Department lawyers in the government's continued litigation against tobacco companies
* Pushed through tax cut, 43 percent of which goes to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans
* Nominated civil rights opponent Terrence Boyle to a federal judgeship
* Canceled the 2004 deadline for auto makers to develop prototype high-mileage cars
* Signed a bill making it harder for poor and middle-class Americans to file for bankruptcy, even when facing overwhelming medical bills
* Appointed affirmative action opponent Kay Cole James to direct the Office of Personnel Management
* Cut $15.7 million from programs dealing with child abuse and neglect
* Proposed elimination of the "Reading Is Fundamental" program, which gives free books to poor children
* Pushed for development of "mini-nukes," designed to attack deeply buried targets-a violation of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty
* Tried to reverse regulation protecting sixty million acres of national forest from logging and road building
* Appointed John Bolton, an opponent of nonproliferation treaties and the United Nations, as Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security
* Named John Walters, an ardent opponent of prison drug treatment programs, as drug czar
* Appointed oil and coal lobbyist. Steven Giles as Deputy Secretary of the Interior
* Named Bennett Raley, who has called for the repeal of the Endangered Species Act, as Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Water and Science
* Sought the dismissal of a class-action lawsui

[curtoid]

While not a "liberal," Wes Clark has a lot that liberals could hang their hat on. A strong supporter of the enviroment, women, minorities and gays ("There have always been gays in the miliatary!"); was against the war from the start; and hasn't made himself look like a desperate ass by overly bashing Dean.

[KOP]

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[A.J.]

Threatened to shut down the White House AIDS office

Good. We already have a Health and Human Services Department as well as the National Institute of Science. Do the same with the "Drug Czar" position.

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[high fly]

With the country divided about 50-50, the name of the game will be taking away some of your opponent's base.
Clark can cut into the military vote, as well as take a southern state or two.
Plus he is someone we can be confident in to properly prosecute this war on terror.


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