Gay father barred from acting gay in front of son

[HBox]

Gay Dad ordered by court to stay in closet in front of son. (http://www.nylawyer.com/news/04/01/010904j.html)

This is so sad.

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[reeshy]

This is so sad.


Yea, so sad....Heavens forbid that male and female roles should be defined...we wouldn't want to confuse the poor kiddies!!!

Oh yea...now SatCam can never become a father!!!!

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[East Side Dave]

I'm shocked this story comes out of Nashville! Shocked I tell's ya! What about you, Froggy?



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[TheMojoPin]

Who the hell defines a "gay lifestyle"?

And why was this even before a judge for ruling in the first place?

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[JustJon]

Who the hell defines a "gay lifestyle"?
sucking dick.

<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/rfjustjon10.gif"><BR><A href="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com">Chaotic Concepts</a>

[Snoogans]

can i get one of these court orders so that no one ever has to act gay near me

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[Justice4all]

So in Tenn. if you are gay that means you are harmful to children? WHAT KIND OF FUCKING DRIBBLE IS THIS???????????????????????
Jesus christ I am sorry BUT....He is not the first NOR will he be the last man to get a divorce because he found out he is a homosexual. Being gay does not mean he will be harmful in any way to the child.
They are saying in MANY words that they think homosexuals are child molestors. But they would have the ACLU up their ass so fast they would have to go to the supreme court.
I am surprised it has not happened now.
It takes alot for someone who is gay to open up to friends and family about their sexual prefernce. Now the courts are saying it is against the law to be yourself. Talk about a setback.
Shit like this pisses me off big time. This judge prob. spends his free time burning books.
Fucking Nazi!

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[curtoid]

But what happens if the kid's friends all agree that the boy's daddy is the number one neighborhood FILF (or would it be DILF?)? Then wouldn't he HAVE to find out?



[KOP]

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[TheMojoPin]

So they're basically saying, "don't have gay sex in front of your son."

Yeah, no shit, Judge Sherlock. Thanks.

Isn't that the standard for hetero sex, too?

"No, no. Daddy can't cornhole his "friend" in front of the boy, but if Mommy wants a good backdoor plowing as she makes him lunch, that's OK."

RETARDATION NATION.

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[Snoogans]

order to stay in the closet mojo. not sex, meaning he cant even tell him he is gay or do whatever this place thinks is gay things

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[serVice]

And why was this even before a judge for ruling in the first place?

Its called vindictive bitch of a wife. i worked for a marimonial lawyer for a long time and was sickened by the depths of vindictiveness that i saw on a daily basis. Seeing the things these people did and said about each other, it was a wonder that these people ever had any feelings for each other.

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This message was edited by serVice on 1-9-04 @ 1:56 PM

[TheMojoPin]

OK, so he can't sit down and tell his son he's gay. I guess if I have to I can see that. His mom isn't going to sit down with him and talk about who SHE'S banging and why, so why should the dad? Parental sex lives aren't required knowledge for the kids.

But at the same time, if the dad gets a partner, are they saying that guy can't be around when the kid is over? How is THAT fair? I'm sure the mom will be able to have HER new meatbag around all she wants...

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-9-04 @ 1:54 PM

[serVice]

OK, so he can't sit down and tell his son he's gay



But the court did agree with Hogue that the order didn't specifically ban the father from telling his son about his sexual orientation

Well, according to the article he can tell him of his orientation but,

The appeals court says it found nothing wrong with the lower court shielding the child from the gay influences.

It looks like he just can't be gay in front of his son. It probably just means that he can't be affectionate with a partner in front of the boy, and possibly as far as blocking the father from being in the company of another gay man when the child is around.

========================================
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Enough blood in these eyes"

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[TheMojoPin]

It probably just means that he can't be affectionate with a partner in front of the boy, and possibly as far as blocking the father from being in the company of another gay man when the child is around.

Which still brings up my second point in my last post...

This is dangerous legal territory.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-9-04 @ 2:14 PM

[Freebird]

So he can't sing show tunes in front of his son?

If he has a picture of his new fiancee, who happens to live in Niagra Falls, he can't let his son see it?

-----------------------------
Now I'm starving

I'm about to turn it up a notch!

[serVice]

But at the same time, if the dad gets a partner, are they saying that guy can't be around when the kid is over? How is THAT fair? I'm sure the mom will be able to have HER new meatbag around all she wants...

And i wouldn't doubt for a second that the mother and probably more so her boyfriend are bad mouthing the father left and right, to despicable heights, in front of the child, but you have to realize that this world, especially parts of the south, are still under the mentality that homosexuality is a sick, diseased lifestyle. The south seems to still look to the beliefs of the catholic church and their local pastor for guidance in things, and a lot of times negate the idea of blind justice. As long as there is people in higher positions that espouse the ideas that the gay lifestyle is harmful to everyone they will still be able to keep the ruling in place.

========================================
"Maybe there's a chance in the future
And maybe there's no chance at all."
"Enough of this world
Enough blood in these eyes"

[StupidGirlllll]

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[curtoid]

...especially parts of the south, are still under the mentality that homosexuality is a sick, diseased lifestyle. The south seems to still look to the beliefs of the catholic church and their local pastor for guidance in things...


The south does not have the market locked up on bigots, small minds and hypocrites - the conservative laws being put into motion in previously progressive Colorado would make your hair stand up. And last I checked, Laramie, Wyoming where Mathew Shepherd was killed wasn't below the Mason Dixon Line. AND there are examples in non-rural areas too.

I swear, to hear it batted about you would think "the south" was the only place with racists in this country.





[KOP]

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[serVice]

I swear, to hear it batted about you would think "the south" was the only place with racists in this country.

Obviously not, but in regards to an article coming from Nashville, the south is used to denote the area in question.

========================================
"Maybe there's a chance in the future
And maybe there's no chance at all."
"Enough of this world
Enough blood in these eyes"

[curtoid]

Obviously not, but in regards to an article coming from Nashville, the south is used to denote the area in question.


No, I know, and I didn't mean to sound like I was busting balls - just many of my most liberal, progressive-mind friends (dare I say "hippies"?) living in North Carolina and Tennessee, including Nashville - and we all know, the world really should revolve around my own myopic pentameter! HA!



[KOP]

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This message was edited by KOP on 1-9-04 @ 2:53 PM

[HBox]

This guy got thrown in jail just for telling his son he was gay.

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[Snoogans]

the guy told the son the guy was gay or the guy told the kid that the kid was gay?

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Thanks Fluff
The BCS is a fuckin crock of shit
The Heisman voters have about as much knowledge of things as dexter manly had ability to read
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[Freebird]

The south looks to the catholic church?? I'm not sure which south you are talking about, but typically the "Bible Belt" consists of Protestant Christians, including those who worship Lex Luthor.

An extreme example of the KKK hates the Catholic church. Kennedy was attacked because of his Catholic backgroud. To quote Porky's "if you're going to be a bigot, at least get it right".

It should go without saying that there is bigotry everywhere, particularly against homosexuality. Even in the most so-called progressive and liberal places.

-----------------------------
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I'm about to turn it up a notch!

[curtoid]

This guy got thrown in jail just for telling his son he was gay.

Jokes aside, I 100% agree with the outrage you, Justice4All and Mojo have said - it is one more sad example of the direction a portion of our country seems hell bent to take us. If there is no compensation and retribution a very, very, very fucking scary prescedent will have been set.



[KOP]

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[serVice]

Hey, its not as though i'm very happy about this either, but legally this isn't that different from any other times that a father is legally disallowed from having his significant other around, while he is with his child. It can be explained as easily as the court deciding that a father's girlfriend leads a lifestyle that exposing the child to it would be detrimental.
While being gay isn't actually harmful, in this case the judges view it as harmful and as some kind of dangerous situation to the child. And while there is no actual danger of anything, those controlling the situation seem to harbor the idea that exposing the child to the open gay lifestyle of his father would be detrimental.


========================================
"Maybe there's a chance in the future
And maybe there's no chance at all."
"Enough of this world
Enough blood in these eyes"

[FMJeff]

gay father? with a son? What i miss here...

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[curtoid]

And I get back around to what everyone else asked - what defines an "open gay lifestyle? Is the judge talking about sexual acts being performed or discussed or exhibitted in some form out in the public (which I would hope would ring true with the Mom) - or is it the swishy stereotypical "Judy Garland Records" or watching "Will and Grace" - or is this adult man not allowed to have a male partner stay with him, hold hands, kiss, yell at to take the garbage out?

We haven't seen the last of this case yet.

[KOP]

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[reeshy]

gay father? with a son? What i miss here...


He must have been drunk!!!!!!!!!!

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[Se7en]

So in Tenn. if you are gay that means you are harmful to children? WHAT KIND OF FUCKING DRIBBLE IS THIS???????????????????????


I know everyone here is taking a OMG HORRIBLE~!!!111 attitude, and not that this ruling isn't a little hinky, but the court arguably DID act within its jurisdiction.

The legal standard used today is "best interests of the child". And whether anyone likes it or not, the sexual orientation of the parent is a factor which weighs upon issues of child custody and adoption - just as race, religion, and a host of other factors do. The judge here determined that it was in the best interest of the child to be somewhat sheltered from his father's orientation / lifestyle, and barring a very close look at the info presented in the court, I don't think it's fair to say that the judge was necessarily wrong in this ruling.

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[TheMojoPin]

I don't think it's fair to say that the judge was necessarily wrong in this ruling.

I 100,000,000% disagree with you.

The issue ISN'T custody here...the issue is just how a father can act/talk around his son defined by VERY vague and precarious perameters.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[serVice]

The big problem is the fact that the wife views the fathers lifestyle as harmful for the child to be around. i don't know the exact right metaphor to explain it, but its not that he's gay, its about the mother presenting the idea that she doesn't want her child exposed to the things that he might see, and believing that they may be detrimental in his upbringing.
Hell, what if the mother is doing this as a way of shielding her child from the ridicule she believes he may endure because of his father being gay. What if one day he goes to school and tells the other kids that he saw his father kissing another man, what kind of ridicule do you think the child may go through? Children are often times cruel and if they hear their own parents ridiculing this other child's father, don't you think that the kids would be more apt to turning it against the child. Its actually possible that the mother was doing this as a means of trying to protect the child.
Do i believe that? No, i've seen to many vindictive child custody cases to believe that, but its still a possibility. If anything, i lean more towards the idea that she was doing it just to get the father out of her own life.
Without seeing the legal briefs, and hearing what has actually been said we can't make a educated guess as to the motivation behind the actions. And, as long as there are other issues that can be presented, its not about keeping the child away because the father is gay, it will continually be about shielding the child from something the mother deems as detrimental, be it a drug lifestyle or a gay lifestyle. The majority custody holder has a lot of pull as to the state of things, and this is just another case.

========================================
"Maybe there's a chance in the future
And maybe there's no chance at all."
"Enough of this world
Enough blood in these eyes"

[high fly]

Well then just where does this stupid judge want the kid to learn to suck dick, if not at home?

" and they ask me why I drink"

[Justice4all]

The legal standard used today is "best interests of the child". And whether anyone likes it or not, the sexual orientation of the parent is a factor which weighs upon issues of child custody and adoption - just as race, religion, and a host of other factors do. The judge here determined that it was in the best interest of the child to be somewhat sheltered from his father's orientation / lifestyle, and barring a very close look at the info presented in the court, I don't think it's fair to say that the judge was necessarily wrong in this ruling.



I do understand and AGREE with the fact that what is in the best interests for the child is the most important issue here. However we are lacking ONE peice of evidence. The AGE of this child. What if he is an infant...like 1 year old or younger?
And I also think that by the court setting this precedent the are pretty much telling the father "We do not trust in your judgement that you would keep from being overtly sexual in the plain sight of your child so we are making that decision for you"
If they said what HE cannot do the MOTHER cannot do...then this would not even be an issue or posted on this board. But it boils down to if the mother wants to sit on her couch and make out with her date she can, but the father cannot simply because of his lifestyle choice.
And no one seems to give a shit that the father is happy.
As stated before this case is going to get ALOT worse before it gets better.
I am really surprised the ACLU or Gay Alliance (or whoever speaks up for homosexuals) have not made their way to Tenn. yet.

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This message was edited by Justice4all on 1-12-04 @ 3:51 PM

[curtoid]

I am really surprised the ACLU or Gay Alliance (or whoever speaks up for homosexuals) have not made their way to Tenn. yet.

The ACLU is too busy with druggies (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/7691982.htm)like Rush right now.



[KOP]

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This message was edited by KOP on 1-13-04 @ 10:12 AM

[FMJeff]

How are they supposed to enforce this?

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[TheMojoPin]

The ACLU is too busy with druggies like Rush right now.

Awwwww, where's all the conservative critics who thought the ACLU was the worst thing since sliced Nazis?

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[Tall_James]

Awwwww, where's all the conservative critics who thought the ACLU was the worst thing since sliced Nazis?

Mmmmmmmm.....sliced Nazis


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[serVice]

How are they supposed to enforce this?

They enforce it the same way they enforce all the other cases like this: supervised visits.
It seems that some people are looking only at the sexual preference aspect of the case and not at the case as a whole. As i said before, its not that he's gay; the court already decided that he could tell the son that fact, its that the primary custody holder does not want the son exposed to the things he would see if he was with the father and his significant other. Its the same as when a father is not allowed to have his girlfriend around when the child is present, because the mother doesn't want the child to see or be a part of certain things she views as detrimantal to the upbringing of the child. The only difference is that the father is gay.
Its nothing more than vindictive legal wrangling brought about by the mother.

========================================
"Maybe there's a chance in the future
And maybe there's no chance at all."
"Enough of this world
Enough blood in these eyes"

[TheMojoPin]

because the mother doesn't want the child to see or be a part of certain things she views as detrimantal to the upbringing of the child.

So why wouldn't this automatically be the case with the mother as well if this was decided and ruled for? Hypothetically, how could a mother actually argue that there's a difference between the father having a new girlfriend and her having a new boyfriend?

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[serVice]

Because it is in the lifestyle that the child would be exposed to by being in the company of a certain person or people. Hypothetically, if the father had a girlfriend that was a stripper, and the mother didn't like the possibility of what the child may be exposed to, she could do the same thing, and keep the father's relationship with the stripper separate from the visitation with the child.


So why wouldn't this automatically be the case with the mother as well if this was decided and ruled for?

Not unless the father had knowledge that the mother's boyfriend was somehow harmful to the child(i.e. drug abuse, alcoholism, sexual deviancy, or some other viewed deviant lifestyle).

========================================
"Maybe there's a chance in the future
And maybe there's no chance at all."
"Enough of this world
Enough blood in these eyes"

[TheMojoPin]

That's fucking gay.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[serVice]

Alright, i just got this in my mail, and although it is from NJ the same seems to be in effect almost all over.


Homosexuality and lesbianism do not provide a basis for denying custody. The parental rights of a homosexual to custody and visitation are constitutionally protected and may not be denied, limited or restricted on the basis of sexual orientation, per se. However a court did limit visitation with a homosexual father where it was determined the limitation to be in the best interests of the children because of the father's preoccupation with homosexuality, homosexuals and various movements furthering the cause of homosexuality. - In re J.S. & C., 129 N.J. Super. 486, 489, 324 A.2d. 90 (Ch. Div. 1974), aff'd, 142 N.J. Super. 499, 362 A.2d. 56 (App. Div. 1976).


i found a canadian link that explains things fully, i think most of it is true for America also. Criteria by which custody and access are determined (http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/pad/reports/chart/chart2-1e.html)


========================================
"Maybe there's a chance in the future
And maybe there's no chance at all."
"Enough of this world
Enough blood in these eyes"

[LiquidCourage]

That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

[monsterone]

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This message was edited by monsterone on 1-14-04 @ 2:04 AM

[MizzleTizzle]

How are they supposed to enforce this?


Well, they could put one of those tracking collars on the Dad, but given the judges orders, it would have to look very unflattering and unfashionable. And for the collar color purple is Out!