Democratic Primary Begins

[HBox]

CNN is projecting that John Kerry has won the Iowa caucus, but even more surprising than that is the margin. Kerry took 38%, Edwards took 32%(!), Dean took only 18%(!!!) and Gephardt only took 11%(!!!!!!!!). Everybody thought that this race would be between Dean and Gephardt. Not so. This made things very interesting. It seems like Gephardt will drop out now, leaving the new four-way race between Kerry, Edwards, Dean and Clark.

Any thoughts?

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[A.J.]

Gephardt is definitely out now. If Lieberman doesn't do well in New Hampshire he'll be next.

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[HBox]

Call me crazy, but I think Edwards has an excellent chance at the nomination.

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[MizzleTizzle]

Hbox; thanx for the heads up, I forgot!

[turning on CNN]

Anyway; as I said on-air in a radio psychic about two weeks ago:

The good Governor from Vermont, Dr. Dean, will Not be on the Main Fight-Card come November.

Too many unknowns; in my opinion.

Kerry, despite everything else, can't be bought. People are gonna start listening to a guy like that.

And tonight is the night America will fall in love with John Edwards. Why? Hell, he looks like John Ritter!



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[Reephdweller]

I think it's funny how people said Kerry made a blunder by saying "fuck" in Rolling Stone. Yet he won.

Al Gore has proven that his endorsement means shit.

With that said though, I'm not counting Dean out just yet.

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[Reephdweller]

And tonight is the night America will fall in love with John Edwards. Why? Hell, he looks like John Ritter!


These last few weeks I've noticed the dress of the candidates, as the rest tried to out casual each other to appear relaxed like Clinton did, it comes off phony, where as Edwards looks real smooth and presidential. I think he has a chance. I don't know how well he'll do in New Hampshire, but I think he will get a lot more attention.

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[Melrapuo]

I'm all for Edwards I guess. Dean seems...weird. Kerry...Kerry scares me. And Gephardt...should just leave.

I swear if I see one more candidate start flipping pancakes again...

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[42nd-delay]

I've never followed a primary race as closely as I have this one, but I can't imagine many have been more unpredictable than this one. Kerry and Edwards have gotten a huge boost from Iowa, meaning they're definite contenders. You have Dean, until now the frontrunner, still the fundraising leader. Then there's Liberman and Clark, who've been focusing on NH. I doubt Liberman will do well, but Clark is a strong candidate, especially with the backing, it seems, of the Clintons. In short, each candidate has something going for them.

Despite Kerry's victory, I think Edwards is the new guy to beat.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[HBox]

I want to like Edwards. He's well spoken. He's a great politician. He has some great plans on important issues that are usually ignored (like his anti-poverty plan).

However, he's taken shit loads of money from trial lawyers, he's a former lawyer, and has been pretty clear that he's happy with the status quo in terms of tort reform. I really don't like that. Two, he can come off forced at times. If I have to hear that line about the son of a coal miner beating the son of a President again, I'll puke. Obviosuly, that first reason is a lot more important than the second.

I also want to to like Kerry. I love his plan for health insurance. But he was so wishy-washy on his stance on Iraq that Republicans are going to make him look like a fool. I pretty fed up with it too. His opinion changes as the wind blows. But the Northeastern liberal stigma could be nullified by his military service record, and if any Republican group tries to pull a Max Cleland on him, I think that would backfire.

These candidates are all far from perfect.

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[TheMojoPin]

Holy cow, what a shocker. I LOVE stuff like this.

Personally, I'm estatic that Edwards did so well and Dean got knocked down a peg or twelve. Edwards has been my favorite, but I figured he was all but out. Color me impressed. I'd have no problem voting for him with Kerry as the VP, or vice-versa, with Clark coming on as a possible secretary of state, or defense.

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[Reephdweller]

There's just something about Clark that doesn't impress me at all. I think he interviews poorly, his statements and beliefs tend to change very often, and his speeches have yet to impress me. He was more interesting when he wasn't running for office.

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[CruelCircus]

I wonder...
Dean and his people have made such a big deal about his campaign bringing in all kinds of young people and new voters and people who haven't been involved in politcs before.
Is it possible that he was burned by that at "go time" when all these newbies either bailed or didn't follow through? (They did report crazy cold weather in Iowa today, too. That MIGHT keep folks away, esp. if you're not that into it.) Maybe all these "supporters" aren't committed enough to take it to the next level, ie actually taking the time out to go and vote?

(Mind you, I'm not digging at Dean. Just legitimately wondering what happened?)



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[shamus mcfitzy]

i still think Clark could beat Bush, and I like him enough to therefore want him to win the nomination. I honestly don't know a lot about Edwards, and therefore can't say I'd be unhappy with him from what I've heard. Dean is kinda creepy (mute the speech he gave tonight and draw a short mustache on him: Governor Hitler!!!!), but I still can't say I don't like him. Early on I was a supporter of Kerry, so I certainly don't dislike him.

Gephardt pissed me off though as the typical modern moderate Democrat, completely dry and a watered-down Republican. And Lieberman is the opposite of Bloomberg: he seems to be a Democrat because he wouldn't be able to cut it as a Republican.

Reverend Al ultimately would be the best one for the job, but that's not gonna happen. Not because he's black, because he's fucking nuts.

[curtoid]

This shit is great - maybe having so many candidates out there, even quibbling, isn't such a bad thing because it keeps the Democrats in the news, and there-by focus' that not every American is in love with this current administration.

I wonder...
Dean and his people have made such a big deal about his campaign bringing in all kinds of young people and new voters and people who haven't been involved in politcs before.

Is it possible that he was burned by that at "go time" when all these newbies either bailed or didn't follow through? (They did report crazy cold weather in Iowa today, too. That MIGHT keep folks away, esp. if you're not that into it.) Maybe all these "supporters" aren't committed enough to take it to the next level, ie actually taking the time out to go and vote?


Well, it was the debut of the new season of "American Idol" last night, and, like, you know you have to have your priorities, dude!

Yeah, it does look like the Republican's wet dream of Dean running isn't going to happen - not that I'm discounting him either (either with this or the national campaign - he has proved to be unpredictable). I just have the feeling that he's the McCain of this election year.

I think a Kerry/Clark or Clark/Kerry ticket would be a good match-up, or a Kerry/Edwards, or even as Mojo said an Edwards/Kerry team. Either way, I think all of this hub-bub and press has been good for the Dems.

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[Se7en]

Personally, I'm estatic that Edwards did so well and Dean got knocked down a peg or twelve.

I would have to agree completely.

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[MizzleTizzle]

As to Dean's poor showing; I think the Cruel Circus has a point, especially in that we're talking Iowa.

And again; all last night was, was a vote by a buncha iowans; but the media would have you thinking the Dems picked the Ticket last night.

Dean is gonna do very well in NH; irrespective of Iowa. Two totally different states.

What I can't wait for is South Carolina; where Sharpton will play a role, if only in the large %age of african-american voters. Sharpton has been, for me, fantastic in the campaign.

He brought race right to the table, right to the Dems, and made them deal with it. Something that should be done in every party; I would hope.

Anyway; Anyone see Drudge's subtle Report?

DEAN GOES NUTS

Which he didn't, but wow, that was flirting with either hyperventilating, or just adrenaline, or whatever, but I think those who see Dean as a loose cannon got a lot of ammo in their arguement last night.

Hey, at least we know Dean knows many of the names of the 50 States!

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[42nd-delay]

It's hard to say what happened to Dean, but from what I heard, he still got plenty of volunteers to come out and campaign for him. The trick is that they were from out of state, and the people who attend the Iowa caucus is a small group (in fact, it's something like 10% of the state of Iowa, if even). So, it came down to how many Dean supporters were actually deom Iowa - apparently, not many.

As for Rev. Al, I don't think he has any place lecturing people on race, considering his past.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[Teenweek]

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audio clip of dean reciting the 50 states (http://www.drudgereport.com/dean.mp3)


Anyone listen to stern this morning. He kept playing this clip with acdc's for those about to rock song. It was pretty funny.

[TheMojoPin]

I think if you watch Dean's speech in slow motion, you can see the exact moment when his brain split in two.

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[Se7en]

Dean sounded like he was cutting a wrestling promo.

I expected him to tear his shirt in two and ask John Kerry "Whatcha gonna do, when the Deanamaniacs run wild on you, brutha?!"

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[Teenweek]

Thats the bottom Line because Howard Dean said so.

If you smell what Dean is cooking.

I am the best president there is, the best president there ever was, and the best president there ever will be.

Now can you dig that suckaaaa!

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audio clip of dean reciting the 50 states (http://www.drudgereport.com/dean.mp3)


Anyone listen to stern this morning. He kept playing this clip with acdc's for those about to rock song. It was pretty funny.


FUCKING FUNNY!!!

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[mercury29]

I think that unless Bush screws up something SO major that even the Republicans turn aginst him, that none of these guys has too much of a shot

[42nd-delay]

I think that unless Bush screws up something SO major that even the Republicans turn aginst him, that none of these guys has too much of a shot


Polls show that Bush vs. an unnamed Democrat is basically a dead heat - I don't think he has a lock on it.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[curtoid]

There's lots and lots of time between now and November, and there are a lot of Republicans who are really pissed off at Bush, but don't want to admit it, and can't fathom voting for a Democrat - I don't know, though...if things keep going the way they are going, one of these Democrats could suddenly appear to be very appealing to some of those Republicans who are honest with themselves.

Still...lots of time, though.



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[Se7en]

Polls show that Bush vs. an unnamed Democrat is basically a dead heat - I don't think he has a lock on it.


He's still going to win.

It just might be a close race, but get ready for four more years.

There's lots and lots of time between now and November, and there are a lot of Republicans who are really pissed off at Bush, but don't want to admit it, and can't fathom voting for a Democrat - I don't know, though...if things keep going the way they are going, one of these Democrats could suddenly appear to be very appealing to some of those Republicans who are honest with themselves.

That's wishful thinking at best, purely delusional at worst.

I do love how you equate Republicans voting Democratic as suddenly becoming honest, though. Finally, they'll be able to look at themselves in the mirror!

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[shamus mcfitzy]

He's still going to win.

It just might be a close race, but get ready for four more years.


i won't concede that because all the Democrat would need to do is win every state that Gore won, plus NH. Clark could win without Florida even mattering.

[Se7en]

He's still going to win.

It just might be a close race, but get ready for four more years.


i won't concede that because all the Democrat would need to do is win every state that Gore won, plus NH. Clark could win without Florida even mattering.


The Dems MUST do well in the South. They absolutely have to if they want to win.

In terms of electability, Clark & Edwards probably have the best shots there. I don't know if Kerry will really appeal to the South (despite the military record he could easily be portrayed as a detached Northerner) and Dean would flat out be SLAUGHTERED there.

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[HBox]

Man, is this country polarized. I think Democrats are finally figuring out what Bush already has: their main supporters are so disgusted with the other side that they can tolerate just about anything. Bush is pushing the Medicare and immigration proposals which piss off his core constituents, but what other choice do they have? They aren't gonna vote Democrat by any stretch of the imagination, giving Bush free reign to do whatever to court moderates.

It seemed like core Democrats wanted Dean, but it certainly seems now like he'd get trounced in November. So now Kerry and Edwards are climbing, and Clark was just a week ago. No coincidence. Liberals hate Bush so much they want him out, and any Democratic alternative is fine with them(except Lieberman).

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[HBox]

My head's about to explode. I'm watching Fox News (why do i subject myself to this idiocy?) and they are actually criticizing Wesley Clark for Michael Moore saying that President Bush was a deserter. First and most importantly, I didn't know it was Wesley Clark's job to be running PR for Bush. Second of all, there is something to the accusations. Thirdly, I am actually watching Bill Bennett say in essense that it is unpatriotic for Americans to say stuff like that about their President.

Just that sink in.

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[CruelCircus]

I didn't see that segment specifically, but I've been hearing Clark getting a lot of heat (even from conservatives) for actually critcizing John Kerry's military service, too.
I guess the guy has no respect for anyone not wearing stars.


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[monsterone]

can someone point out the differences between rep. & dem? i isten to npr about all this meaningless babble, and what's the point? i'll tell you what, if there is a candidate who's platform is equal justice for everone, i'll vote for them.

having a z of weed will put me away longer than some of these politically supported dopes. shit, this lady in my area who had an illegal day care program where a 3 month old baby died, only got 3 months(her husband is a ny st trooper who waited/ was allowed until he retired and got his pension to testify)

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[CruelCircus]

The best sort of soundbyte description of rep vs. dem that I heard went something like this: (and Mojo will immediately deconstruct it, but...)

Democrats want to use government to help people.
Republicans want government to teach people how to help themselves.


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[monsterone]

Democrats want to use government to help people.
Republicans want government to teach people how to help themselves.






i really don't see a difference. in acttion. i guess the libraterions (sp?) can thank my vote. see my appreciation thread earlier.

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[42nd-delay]

Democrats want to use government to help people.
Republicans want government to teach people how to help themselves.


This is bs. Democrats want gov't to help people, Republicans want to let people fend for themselves.

Though often they let gov't help them and their supporters.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[TheMojoPin]

Actually, I've always liked that description. It's really not negative towards either side unless someone wants it to be.

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[A.J.]

but I've been hearing Clark getting a lot of heat (even from conservatives) for actually critcizing John Kerry's military service, too.

I think he said something to Bob Dole too when both were on Larry King. Yeah, I get a little tired of Kerry hyping up being a veteran but you can't deny that the guy served with valor. Clark fucked up and should apologize for that.

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[shamus mcfitzy]

Democrats want to use government to help people.
Republicans want government to teach people how to help themselves.


if you change it to liberals and Republicans that's much truer. I'd say at least a third of Democrats are just pro-abortion (tee hee) Republicans or left on another issue that seperates them from the Republicans.

Clark needs to discover that he has to act like a human in order for people to vote for him. When I said I thought that he'd win, I assumed that his campaign would be run for him to win.

This message was edited by shamus mcfitzy on 1-24-04 @ 6:15 PM

[CruelCircus]

Republicans want to let people fend for themselves.

That's how you see it.

One could just as easily say that it should be "Democrats think people are too stupid to help themselves."
I think it reads fairly neutral.


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[HBox]

MSNBC is reporting that Kerry has won New Hampshire, and that Dean has got second place. The pundits on MSNBC are saying how great this is for Dean to bounce back, and I just don't see it that way. Right now Kerry leads 39%-24%. That's pretty big, and if it stays like that, I don't see how it can be a positive. As for Kerry, if these results stay the same, it's very impressive. I don't think either Kerry or Dean ever polled as high as Kerry is right now in the actual vote.

Also, Edwards and Clark are running neck and neck for third. Both are around 13%, with Edwards with a miniscule lead at the moment. REALLY sucks for Clark.

MSNBC just projected that Kerry will win by at the very least double digits. This is bad for Dean. If Kerry tops 40%, thats very impressive.

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[42nd-delay]

Kerry continues to surprise me - I just can't see his appeal.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[TheMojoPin]

Clark is done. If he's serious, he should start shopping for someone to allow him to tag along as a VP. Since the primaries have begun, everything out of his mouth is a ridiculous Clarkism. It's embarassing...

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[Reephdweller]

Even Kerry is surprised...

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[HBox]

Wesley Clark might be a worse public speaker than George Bush. He doesn't make all the gaffes Bush does, but everytime I hear him speak I want to vote for him less and less. I wanted to vote for him, and he blew it. Any time he talks about anything other than his military service he sounds like he's reading a telephone book and doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't think he's a Republican, but the way he talks about liberal issues he sounds like he's pandering. I don't think he really believes much of the little he says about the issues. I think I'd even prefer Lieberman over Clark at this point. I don't even want him as a VP anymore.

I guess this is what you'd call Joe-mentum.

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This message was edited by HBox on 1-27-04 @ 10:07 PM

[Reephdweller]

Can there be a worse speaker and candidate than Wesley Clark? He is just god awful.

Dean impressed me far more tonight than he has previously. I got to give him credit for turning things around.

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[Se7en]

Clark's done?

EVERYONE is done but Kerry. Face it, Kerry is it.

Dean is finished - he was finished after Iowa, he just has the money & name recognition to continue onward, but the conclusion is inevitable.

If Kerry is smart, he'll start now and try to court Edwards as his VP. I know, the race isn't over just yet, but the time to strike is now.

Kerry is far too liberal to do well in the South - he'll get killed there - so he needs to court someone with strong ties to the South. That means Edwards, as so many of you have now realized what I knew some weeks back - that Clark is clearly NOT ready for prime time. A Kerry - Edwards ticket may have a chance.

Of course, I still don't think they'll beat Bush (especially if those other 2004 election rumors are true), but they have a better shot of things.

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[TheMojoPin]

as so many of you have now realized what I knew some weeks back - that Clark is clearly NOT ready for prime time.

Hey, I called that pretty fucking early. I have eyes like an eagle.

And I called the idea of a Kerry/Edwards ticket after the first primary. Best shot of giving Bush a real run for the election. I'd lay money it would be just as close, if not closer, as last time.

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[Doomstone]

Presidents Tsongas and McCain agree, there's no reason for the other 48 states to even bother now.

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[Reephdweller]

I'd lay money



Eeewwww! You do it to money dude?


btw I think that a Kerry/Edwards ticket is their best chance, though I think that Bush still has the upper hand. Plus we're all waiting for him to pull Bin Laden out and just run away with the election...coming soon....

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[HBox]

I think an Edwards/Kerry ticket is a stronger ticket than Kerry/Edwards.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[FUNKMAN]

Dean has an 'adolescent' look and i don't think voters could see him 'holding his own' with foreign leaders...

And i don't think voters could literally listen to Leiberman through a whole speach, his voice becomes 'annoying'...

For the times we are in with the "iraq and terrorist' situation i think voters would be more comfortable with Kerry who fought in Vietnam and has a rugged look to him and he's tall. Edwards looks like a good candidate for VP, he is young and handsome.

<img src="http://64.177.177.182/katylina/funkmansig.jpg">
i got sig'd about two weeks ago by the sweetest Kat...

[TheMojoPin]

Eeewwww! You do it to money dude?

"On a giant pile of ladies, with many beautiful monies."

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[HBox]

Here are the weirdest results of the night. (http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2004/primaries/by_state/NH_Page.html?SITE=YAHOOELN&SECTION=POLITICS#TOP)

Scroll down to the Republican Primary results. Look who finished second, third and fourth. That's a lot of votes for write-ins.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[A.J.]

Clark is done. If he's serious, he should start shopping for someone to allow him to tag along as a VP.

With his ego I don't think he'd settle for the No. 2 spot. A cabinet position perhaps but not Veep.

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[curtoid]

The one who really needs to worry right now is Edwards. He doesn't have the money and the organization to hang on to the bitter end, especially if all he gets next week is South Carolina.

There are something like 10 states up for grabs in the next 12 days - Kerry should be able to get most of them, but if Clark and Dean can pull strong in some of the others, they can be around up through March - considering their money and their organization.

Both Kerry and Dean seemed like different people last night on Nightline; Kerry, very up and enjoying this, while Dean seemed really down.

Of course, Edwards could suddenly catch fire this next week, and everyone is playing catch-up with him - doubtful, but it could happen.

I'm enjoying the hell out of this, which is not at all the way I thought I would feel 4 months ago. If any of these men can present a positive vision for the future, they can have a chance.

I could see Clark accepting an invitation to be VP from Kerry or Edwards; He must be be at the top of the list for Sec. of State for any of these other ment, or some other high profile position.

Dean should be put head of Homeland Security.



[KOP]



http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/KOPsig.jpg
Always respect yerdaddy...thanks for sig!

This message was edited by KOP on 1-28-04 @ 2:17 PM

[Tall_James]

From Slate:

"Will the voters who dated Dean, then married Kerry get bored enough that they start to fantasize again about sleeping with Dean?"

And we wonder why Kerry got the Botox. He just wants to keep the relationship alive! He's also been working out -- just like you wanted! Today, he bought the voters some nice jewelry, reserved a room at The Inn at Little Washington, and bought a copy of "Republican Sex Secrets for Democrats." He's willing to experiment if you are."

Funny because it's true.



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[curtoid]

This just in...

Joe Trippi bounced out of Dean's campaign... (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040128/ap_on_el_pr/dean_82)

Huge mistake, if you ask me - which you didn't, damn you! Trippi did the best he could with what Dean was giving him; he created a buzz and an auroa around the Doctor that gave him most of the spotlight for quite some time. WHo knows what really went on behind the scenes, but it seems to me that the dropping Trippi at this point and replacing him with another Gore person (how many fucking people did Gore have working for him? Geeez...which of these candidates DOESN'T have an Al Gore person working for them!?!) is a mistake.

Of course, Kerry fired his campaign manager a few months ago, and it turned around for him, which is nice.

Curiouser and curiouser...



[KOP]



http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/mikeyboy/KOPsig.jpg
Always respect yerdaddy...thanks for sig!

[high fly]

Next debate, they gotta give each one, surreptitiously, a hit of acid, just to see who can keep it together the best and who becomes a blithering, giggling, idiot....




" and they ask me why I drink"
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Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig!

[HBox]

Polls just closed in South Carolina. Edwards won(WOO-HOO!) with Kerry second. The only other contest in doubt tonight is Oklahoma, where Clark, Edwards and Kerry all have a shot. If Clark loses that, he's done. Everywhere else, Kerry will win.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

This message was edited by HBox on 2-3-04 @ 7:02 PM

[Heather 8]

Lieberman's out.

All those who didn't see this coming, please emerge from your caves now.

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[42nd-delay]

Lieberman's out.


What happened to Joe-mentum?

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[HBox]

It's a surprising race in New Mexico. Clark, Kerry and Dean(!?) are all running essentially tied for first, even closer than the race in Oklahoma. In Oklahoma, it seems that it's just a race between Clark and Edwards. If Clark loses both these races, look for him to drop out.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[furie]

i don't remember primaries being covered this much. the media acts like this is the election.


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[Doomstone]

This is confusing. According to The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/4005/top_story.html), ALL the Democratic hopefuls lost!



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[keithy_19]

I felt bad for Lieberman.

I wanted Dean to win it all. He's one crazy mother fucker. But everything I want never happens.

LETS GO BUSH!

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Much thanks to Katylina

[A.J.]

i don't remember primaries being covered this much. the media acts like this is the election.


You should see DC's Democratic primary for Mayor. That IS the election.

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[Freakshow]

This is confusing. According to The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/4005/top_story.html), ALL the Democratic hopefuls lost!

That's funny. My favorite Onion story is still this one:

<a href="http://www.theonion.com/onion3612/us_population.html">No one lives in St. Louis</a>

(sorry, it's a bit off topic)

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