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Yerdaddy
01-23-2004, 04:08 PM
Whatever else happens, this is one aspect of our involvement in Iraq that won't be going away any time soon.

<a href="http://www.petermaass.com/core.cfm?p=1&mag=120&magtype=1" target="_blank">The Counterinsurgent</a>
A good article about the nature of the current insurgency in Iraq, from the viewpoint of Maj. John Nagl, West Point grad, PhD, counterinsurgency expert, professor at West Point, and now based near Falluja, in the "Sunni Triangle."

Article by Nagl referenced in previous article:
<a href="http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m2393/4_161/54146668/print.jhtml" target="_blank">Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife(1).(military policy)
World Affairs, Spring, 1999, by John A. Nagl
BRITISH AND AMERICAN ARMY COUNTERINSURGENCY LEARNING DURING THE MALAYAN EMERGENCY AND THE VIETNAM WAR</a>

<a href="http://www.twq.com/04winter/index.cfm?id=83" target="_blank">Insurgency and Counterinsurgency in Iraq - Steven Metz, director of research at the U.S. Army War College's Strategic Studies Institute.</a>

The intro:
[quote]An insurgency is born long before the government it seeks to overthrow knows of its existence. Rebels, guerrillas, and terrorists, far from prying eyes, gather in dark buildings, foreign sanctuaries, or-in today's day and age-online. At least initially, survival depends on cloaking intent and strength with ambiguity, deception, and subterfuge. Even after attacks begin in earnest, the intended targets tend to underestimate the problem, believ-ing it to be controllable, unorganized, and isolated rather than a symptom of a deeper pathology.

Understanding the factors leading to such a miscalculation is easy. Gone are the Cold War days when regimes could rely on a superpower patron for increased support against a rebellion. Although the most benevolent and stable government may face isolated violence, an organized insurgency reveals deep flaws in rule or administration. Today, even an unsuccessful insurrection can weaken or undercut a government, hinder economic development and access to global capital, or at least force national leaders to alter key policies. The tendency then is to deny or underestimate the threat, to believe that killing or capturing only a few of the most obvious rebel leaders will solve the problem when in fact the problem-the heart of the insurgency- lies deeper.

Like cancers, insurgencies are seldom accorded the seriousness they deserve at precisely the time they are most vulnerable, early in their development. Such is the situation that the United States and coalition forces face in Iraq today. Although U.S. strategists and political leaders may disagree about who is behind the violence in Iraq, the preconditions for a serious and sustained insurgency clearly exist.

The stakes in Iraq are immense. The conflict there will help determine whether the world continues its difficult and uneven movement toward a global system based on open governments and economies or fractures into a new bipolarity. The Arab world is the region most resistant to the U.S. vision of open economies and governments. If it can work there, it can work anywhere. Iraq is the beachhead, the test case, the laboratory.

Given these stakes and the price already paid, the United States must continue to pursue its strategic objective in Iraq but must do so in a way that limits the long-term damage to the United States itself and to the fragile, new Iraqi society. Calls for a speedy U.S. withdrawal will increase as the conflict drags on. Even Ambassador Paul Bremer, head of the Coalition Provisional Authority, has hinted that the United States may leave Iraq by the summer of 2004. Leaving too soon, however, would be disastrous. After all, Osama bin Laden's rise was in part a result of abandoning Afghanistan too soon after foreign occupation in 1979. Departing early would guarantee that strategic objectives are not met and, in all likelihood, force reintervention to deal with future security problems. Only a carefully designed and cautious counterinsurgency strategy can forestall this.

Accepting the exis

Yerdaddy
01-25-2004, 08:20 PM
I should have added this movie to this fart-in-church of a thread. <a href="http://rialtopictures.com/battle.html" target="_blank">The Battle of Algiers</a> is an incredibly realistic movie about the French counterinsurgency in Algiers in 1956-57. It's a 1965 movie, written and directed by an Italian director, that was shot in Algiers after their independence came in 1962. In 1969 it was nominated for best director and screenplay Oscars, and it's being re-released in arthouses now. It's at E St. Landmark here in DC, check the website for the NY theater.

It's being held up as a comparison to Iraq, and much has been made about a screening of this movie at the Pentagon recently. The invitational flyer for the Pentagon screening apparently read: "How to win a battle against terrorism and lose the war of ideas. Children shoot soldiers at point-blank range. Women plant bombs in cafes. Soon the entire Arab population builds to a mad fervor. Sound familiar? The French have a plan. It succeeds tactically, but fails strategically. To understand why, come to a rare showing of this film."

I find it odd that this description gets the subtle point of the film, that the battle is won but the "war of ideas" is lost, while it gets the facts of the movie wrong. But the background on the film and the Pentagon showing is better explained in <a href="http://rialtopictures.com/eyes_xtras/battle_times.html" target="_blank">this article.</a> The story of the film and how it came about is fascinating, but more importantly, I saw this film and it blew me away. There's no way to express how deeply it delves into the realities of a war like this, even if the similarities to Iraq are being overplayed right now. This is one of the 3 best political/war movies I've ever seen.

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Doomstone
01-31-2004, 03:35 AM
Interesting article from the Miami Herald:

Iraqi whispers mull repeat of 1920s revolt (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/7809543.htm)



BAGHDAD, Iraq - Whispers of "revolution" are growing louder in Baghdad this month at teahouses, public protests and tribal meetings as Iraqis point to the past as an omen for the future.

Iraqis remember 1920 as one of the most glorious moments in modern history, one followed by nearly eight decades of tumult. The bloody rebellion against British rule that year is memorialized in schoolbooks, monuments and mass-produced tapestries that hang in living rooms.

Now, many say there's an uncanny similarity with today: unpopular foreign occupiers, unelected governing bodies and unhappy residents eager for self-determination. The result could be another bloody uprising.

"We are now under occupation, and the best treatment for a wound is sometimes fire," said Najah al Najafi, a Shiite cleric who joined thousands of marchers at a recent demonstration where construction workers, tribal leaders and religious scholars spoke of 1920.

...

To many Iraqis, today's U.S. occupation reads like an old play with modern characters: America as the new Britain, grenade-lobbing insurgents as the new opposition, and Ahmad Chalabi and other former exiles on the Governing Council as the new kings.

"We've sacrificed many martyrs and we would do it again," said Sheik Khamis al Suhail, the secretary of the tribal council. "In 1920, we faced a struggle between Muslims and non-Muslims in Iraq. We are living under basically the same conditions now, and revolution is certainly possible."




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Doomstone
01-31-2004, 03:44 AM
Here is also a recent statement from the Iraqi Baath Party: (http://comitesirak.free.fr/baath/baath-031215-eng.htm)


</center>
STATEMENT OF
ARAB SOCIALIST
BAATH PARTY.
- IRAQI BRANCH -

December 15, 2003
STATEMENT ON THE IMPRISONMENT OF OUR COMRADE THE GENERAL SECRETARY
BY THE OCCUPATION FORCES IN IRAQ.

"One Arab Nation, With an Everlasting Mission"

"Unity, Freedom, Socialism"

Sons and daughters of the Iraqi people and the Arab Nation !

Baathist Comrades !

In the course of the on-going confrontation between the heroic Iraqi Resistance led by the Arab Socialist Baath Party and the occupation forces and their stooges in Iraq, and at a time of intensified operations by the occupation forces as they desperately attempt to strike at and stop the escalating armed Resistance, American occupation forces with the help of mercenary traitors managed to carry out a combined operation that targeted a number of alternative points - both real potential locations and decoy locations - in various parts of Salah ad-Din Province while our comrade General Secretary was on the move.

The operation made use of biologically effective interventions in order to take our comrade, the General Secretary and Chief Secretary of the Iraqi Branch of the Party, the militant Saddam Hussein, prisoner. That event took place before midnight on Saturday, 13 December 2003.

The heroic armed Resistance, guided by its political and strategic programs, will never stop. No, it will continue, escalating its designated line in accordance with tactical demands and the strategic aim of "expelling the occupation forces, liberating Iraq, and preserving it as one unified homeland for all Iraqis".

That which has been laid out by the Command of the Political Resistance and that which has been learned by fighting detachments will continue to be implemented with lofty zeal, fighting spirit, clear vision, and firm resolve, embodying the principled and militant characteristics and virtues of our comrade the General Secretary.

The Baath, the Resistance, and all noble minded Arabs and human beings are certain that his firmly rooted faith, his strong fighting spirit, his authentic Arab honor, his iron Iraqi unyileldingness, and his unique personal potency will inform the great battle of defiance that our comrade the General Secretary will wage inside the enemy prison camp, a battle that will add a new and eternal epic chapter to the life of Saddam Hussein, a man dear to the hearts of Iraqis, Arabs, and all progressives in the world.

Long live free Iraq! Defeat the occupation !
Long live the heroic Iraqi Resistance !
Long live the Comrade General Secretary and Chief Secretary of the Iraqi Branch of the Party, the militant Saddam Hussein !
Long live Palestine, beloved of comrade Saddam Hussein, Free and Arab !



Office for Political Information and Publication,
Arab Socialist Baath Party.
December 15, 2003.



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TheMojoPin
02-01-2004, 02:20 PM
From here on out, all Iraq-related posts should be kept to the "Why are we still in Iraq?" thread.

Except for this thread. This will remain open for people to post sources and articles and essays related to the current events in and involving Iraq.

Everything else will be locked to save space and cut down on confusion.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

Yerdaddy
02-01-2004, 02:47 PM
Damn that's a dumb thread to be the official Iraq thread. Seriously, what if Saddam Hussein had put on a J-Lo mask and got himself elected governor of New York?

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TheMojoPin
02-01-2004, 03:10 PM
It's the closest thing we have to an active "generic" thread on Iraq. If you want to start a different "official" thread, go right ahead, and I'll lock the "why" one.

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2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You might tell some lies about the good times we've had/But I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

A.J.
02-02-2004, 05:32 AM
Seriously, what if Saddam Hussein had put on a J-Lo mask and got himself elected governor of New York?

He'd still be Saddam From The Block.

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Red Sox Nation

NewYorkDragons80
02-02-2004, 04:40 PM
I heard about this Nagl brother on NPR. Very interesting stuff.

<marquee>
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HBox
02-04-2004, 03:32 PM
Considering that the Bush Administration is attempting to put all the blame on the CIA in the WMD mess, this book is probably a very interesting read. I certianly can't wait to read it:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060580127.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Bush vs. the Beltway: How the CIA and the State Department tried to stop the War on Terror (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060580127/qid=1075940920/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8973431-8052050?v=glance&s=books)
Combining important new research with an insider's grasp of Beltway politics, Mylroie describes how the CIA and the State Department have systematically discredited critical intelligence about Saddam's regime, including indisputable evidence of its possession of weapons of mass destruction.

The poor girl probably thought this was a good idea at the time. Now she probably has a contract out on her head.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

Yerdaddy
02-04-2004, 04:07 PM
My friend, who was on the show talking about Iraq just before the war, has been on news shows and panels with Laurie Mylroie several times and has busted her on fundamental errors on Iraq each time. I think she's just coming up with half-baked theories to cash in on. Unfortunately nobody ever loses credibilty in this town.

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billyio
02-04-2004, 04:44 PM
I'm tired of this fucking war draining everything. Did you notice that we're spending more on Iraq than on Homeland defense?Can the government spend and use human resources in the future more wisely ever? Shouldn't we have a free health care system and world-renowned educational system? What is it with fiscal responsibility to a better country for real?

See Ya!

Doomstone
02-04-2004, 09:12 PM
Another book to look forward to:

Against All Enemies : Inside the White House's War on Terror--What Really Happened by Richard Clarke (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743260244/qid=1075955142/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-3766186-5593549?v=glance&s=books#product-details)



Richard Clarke, the former NSC counterterrorism expert from Bush I, Clinton and 2 years plus of Bush II is publishing his insider book that takes no prisnors. Word is that Rove is very afraid of what Clarke has to say -- particularly because Clarke was the August 6 2001 briefer of Bush, and there is a good deal about how he got told never to raise such matters again with Bush. Book will get big play. Richard Clarke knows where all the bodies are buried.

The close collaborator with Richard Clarke -- going back to Bush I at NSC was Rand Beers -- who quit last summer in disgust, and walked down the street and volunteered his services to Kerry, where he has been ever since. Beers eventually drew Joe Wilson into the Kerry camp. Taken together this represents about 75 years of high level Bureaucratic Counterterrorism experience -- and it is super connected with every establishment going.


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high fly
02-08-2004, 10:44 AM
More and more it's looking like Saddam "That Madman" Hussein was more truthful to the American people on the subject of WMDs than Bush was.

Now that's a fine kettle of fish!

" and they ask me why I drink"
http://64.177.177.182/katylina/highflysig.jpg
Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig!

Recyclerz
02-08-2004, 06:06 PM
Another example of how the people we're fighting in Iraq seem to have thought this through better than us:

NY Times: Iraqi Intelligentsia Targeted for Assasination (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/07/international/middleeast/07ASSA.html)

Wolfowitz always had the idea that Iraq would be the easiest Muslim nation to "flip" to our side because they had a bigger secular, Western-educated population than most other countries in the region and they would be sympathetic to cooperating with the "West". Apparently, the insurgents/terrorists agreed with him on that point and have started killing as many of them as possible.

Yep, this is going to work out fine in the end. :(



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