The Passion of Christ...

[curtoid]

Couldn't decide if this goes in politics or entertainment...

Studio Briefing"Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, has disclosed that he sneaked into a screening of Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ at a Christian conference in Orlando, FL this week and had concluded that the film might indeed "fuel latent anti-Semitism that exists in the hearts of those people who hold Jews responsible for the death of Jesus." A spokesman for Gibson later acknowledged that Foxman had not signed a required confidentiality statement and that he registered as a member of the "church of truth." In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Foxman said that Gibson is "hawking it on a commercial crusade to the churches of this country. That's what makes it dangerous."

A spokesman for Gibson commented: "We respect the right to freedom of expression and expect the same in return." Reuters reported from Orlando on
Thursday that the film includes a scene in which the Jewish high priest strikes and spits on Jesus and other scenes in which Jewish authorities are joined by a figure meant to be the personification of the Devil. Meanwhile, PAX-TV announced plans to broadcast a one-hour special from Gibson's production company about the making of The Passion of the Christ on Feb. 22. The company's founder and chairman, Bud Paxson, told the Times: "I saw it with a Jewish rabbi and a Catholic priest, we discussed it for an hour afterward, and we found nothing wrong with the film."

First...does anything sound more fun than a Christain Conference?!

Second...Bud Paxson's quote at the end reminds me of people who excuse racist jokes by saying that they have black friends.


[KOP]

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[sr71blackbird]

Part of the prophesy of the messiah was that he would be betrayed by his own people.

I dont know why Jewish people would be offended, its not like the Church has the influence it once had and its popularity is at an all time low. The film will not inspire any hatred or finger pointing, so I dont know what the hubbub is all about. Even if some fanatic starts pointing fingers all anyone has to say is...



Part of the prophesy of the messiah was that he would be betrayed by his own people.


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[Arienette]

i think this may, indeed, be bound for the politics forum...

i obviously havent seen this thing, so it's hard to comment on what is shown. just wanted to make that disclaimer...
I dont know why Jewish people would be offended, its not like the Church has the influence it once had and its popularity is at an all time low. The film will not inspire any hatred or finger pointing, so I dont know what the hubbub is all abouti don't mean this in a mean or offensive way, but this is exactly the type of thing that one might expect to see from a non-jew. non-jewish people don't understand what it's like being jewish. even though i am basically non-practicing, and one of the more secular jews you can find, i can still sympathize with this objection. as a not very religious person, it wasn't really a part of my everyday life, and i rarely if ever found myself in conflict over my religion. the only time i can ever really remember getting mad was when an adult, someone who was something of a role model to me as an adolescent, said that the jews killed christ. not only is it false, but it's hurtful and accusatory to hear as a child, and as a jew. i am not saying that all christians believe that myth, but it's clear that many otherwise intelligent and educated people still do. and they're being taught it somewhere. and there's hatred there.

i think a lot of jews have a persecution complex that maybe they need to let go of a little. but, as a group, they have been persecuted. this isn't about the church as much as it is about people believing lies and the resulting hate. i think that some jews get very sensitive when it comes to their being falsely hated by a more numerous and powerful group. and i can't really say that i blame them.

this all being said, i'd be interested to see the movie.

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[TheMojoPin]

I'm fascinated to see this film. As a painfully lapsed Catholic, I'm always eager to see what possibly may be re-interpretations of traditional Catholic dogma, or just the "original word" brought to life.

Like sr71 said, I too am baffled as to why so many Jewish people are up in arms over this, despite what Ari said. It goes along with how ridiculous the Catholic groups who protested "Dogma" as being "anti-Catholic" looked.

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[Snoogans]

The Passion of Christ


Amen *takes wafer from priest and walks away*

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[East Side Dave]

The "wafer" you're referring to, Snoogs, is the Body of Christ you heathen!! That being said, I like to dip my wafer in sugar- tastes better!

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[Snoogans]

i just hold it till i get the wine, its not so bad and i let that dissolve his nasty ass Passion

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[East Side Dave]

I used to be an alter boy but got fired when they caught me drinking Jesus' blood and getting drunk one afternoon after church!

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[Arienette]

Like sr71 said, I too am baffled as to why so many Jewish people are up in arms over this, despite what Ari said. It goes along with how ridiculous the Catholic groups who protested "Dogma" as being "anti-Catholic" looked.i really can see where you guys are coming from, too. i think it's kind of silly. i do, however, think that there's a difference between a movie like "dogma" and one like "the passion of christ." i was just trying to present the other side, since i'm fairly sure that nobody else will. it's still just a movie, and i don't think it's such a huge deal.

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[curtoid]

I think a better example (instead of Dogma) for comparrison is Martin Scorsese's Last Temptation of Christ back in the 1980s. Months and months before it came out, it was raked over the coals by Christian groups, and when it opened (in only a hand-full of theatres across the country) there were widespread protests.

Where I went to college, there was a continued debate in the school paper about it, even though there was no chance it was going to come to our small college town to begin with (although, a year or two later, we did get The Cook The Thief His Wife and Her Lover, and Tie Me Up Tie Me Down, so we did start to get some artsy films). I think the closest place it played was about 200 miles away.

When it finally came out, some people I talked with (who went to see it with an open mind) came away feeling better about their faith. I even heard Morton Downey Jr. (remember him, anyone?!) who railed and railed against the film before it came out, came back and apologized after having seen it.

Anyway, I am interested in how it it pulled off - how a movie in ancient tongues with no subtitles works as a film. I have questions about Mel Gibson as a film maker (he's no Scorsese), though, as he has shown a history of creating one-dimensional charactures, like the gay prince in Braveheart, which was nothing less than a screaming sissy.

Spike Lee has made many movies with less than favorable depictions of Jews, and he is often called on it - does it reinfoce a negative stereotype with those that watch it? Maybe - but maybe they already felt a certain way going into it.

[KOP]

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[TheMojoPin]

KOP just made the best point AGAINST it...it's directed by Mel Gibson.

I don't care what anyone says, "Braveheart" is perhaps THE most overrated film of the last 10 years. It STINKS.

I think the last time a movie was done in a ridiculous language that nobody speaks it starred William Shatner.

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[dingo]

if it says that the high priest strikes and spits on Jesus and everything else is also stated in the bible that people find to be an attack on the joos then people should shut the fuck up if it doesn't state that in the bible then shut the fuck up too cause it is only a movie you don't hear the germans complaining about Shindlers list the joos for that so it as a great portail of what happened so what makes this any diffrent

I do remember that it is written in the bible that Jesus is spit on and riticuled through the whole Passion

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[Snoogans]

I don't care what anyone says, "Braveheart" is perhaps THE most overrated film of the last 10 years. It STINKS.


thank fuckin christ. i was asleep before the second tape even came on. Wlliam Wallace my ass, gimmie some Dolomite

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[TheMojoPin]

Snoogans and I have reached detente.

THERE IS PEACE IN OUR TIME.

Actually, I just thought of something...dingo managed to bring up "Schindler's List". That film is based on "proven" history. Ultimately, no matter how strong your faith is, can you say that the Bible and what is contained within is actually, truly "proven" history like the subject matter depicted in a film like "Schindler's List"? To non-Catholics, it could seem that these people are basing their conceptions of other religions, races and people on a book that could be completely made up.

And before anyone gets all uppity about that, I was raised Catholic and I personally DO believe in much of the Bible, so kiss mah grits.

Oh, and dingo? Don't be stupid.

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[dingo]

that book that can be compleatly made up is the exact same book that 2 religions are based on the old testoment is the same the new testoment is where it changes and the Jews (if that is where i am being stupid) don't deny anything about Jesus they just don't see him as the son of God

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[Snoogans]

isnt the sun god and we prey to joe pesci?

thats what i was told

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[TheMojoPin]

But don't they still acknowledge he was a prophet or something? It's not like they make him out to be an evil guy or anything.

And I'm no Bible expert, but where does it say that the Jewish people had Jesus killed? I always took it as only the jealous Jewish high priests "sold him out" to the Romans. Hell, if you go buy the logic of the Jewish protests, shouldn't the Italians be pissed off, too?

It's all so futile. Unless Gibson is coming out with a film that says, "Jewish people killed Jesus because they're evil and stupid and I hate them," I don't see what the problem is.

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[TheMojoPin]

isnt the sun god and we prey to joe pesci?

Because he seems like a guy who can get things done.

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[dingo]

And I'm no Bible expert, but where does it say that the Jewish people had Jesus killed? I always took it as only the jealous Jewish high priests "sold him out" to the Romans.


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that is it that is the preist that that spity on and slaped Jesus


"But don't they still acknowledge he was a prophet or something? It's not like they make him out to be an evil guy or anything."

they acknowledge everything except that he was not Gods son they don't deny he was offered to the Romans

Ok I don't know this so this could end this debate what Religion were the Romans ? something tells me that hey were not Catholics

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[TheMojoPin]

Well, the Romans ended up being Christians (The Holy Roman Empire, the Vatican ending up in Rome), but at the time of Jesus they had their own belief system (Think of the mythology classes you had in school) based out of the belief system of ancient Greece. They held all other religions under their rule harshly in check, and tried to destroy most of them and convert their subjects to their faith, especially the Jews. Once Christianity took off, THAT became their big target, until it eventually spread across the empire itself.

So I guess you can see why the Italians have just as much "reason" to be pissed off, since they as a people had just as much to do with the death of Jesus as the Jews as a race/religion did...which is not much at all outside of a few influential government officials and religious figures.

The only way Gibson could be crossing the line is if he's accusing the Jewish people themselves on a large scale as having murdered Christ, which I can't imagine he'd be stupid enough to do.

that is it that is the preist that that spity on and slaped Jesus

Dude, I GOTTA bust your balls on this. What the hell is that? It honestly hurts my head to try and read it...

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-24-04 @ 1:06 PM

[Tall_James]

I think the last time a movie was done in a ridiculous language that nobody speaks it starred William Shatner.

Hey - no talking trash about Esperanto. It's coming back in a big way!


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[dingo]

Ok i am fine with this. lock this thread up discussion over.

Now we can get back to making fun of high jumping rich people


sorry missed that the first time "spityand slaped"
some ass put my t and y keys to close together and that goes back to they priest in the move who spit on Jesus Could be the same priest that you see as the one who sold Jesus out. now leave my lack of typing skill alone

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This message was edited by dingo on 1-24-04 @ 1:23 PM

[Arienette]

what the hell is a joo?

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[Snoogans]

what the hell is a joo?


i eat my own joo

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[A.J.]

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[dingo]

what the hell is a joo?

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its from south park cartman says they can see heaven cause one of them is a J-O-O refering to kyle being a jew


edit: it's not funny if you have to explain your own jokes
i stink i'm going home

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This message was edited by dingo on 1-24-04 @ 5:00 PM

[NewYorkDragons80]

Without turning this into a history of anti-Semitism (even though that is exactly what I'm doing), I think xenophobic Europeans did not like Jews entering Europe even before there was a heavy Christian influence. They simply manipulated Christianity to conform to their needs and highlight certain areas of the New Testament while ignoring others to help further anti-Semitism.

I'm wondering why Kevin Smith has not come to Mel Gibson's defense. Each has experience being attacked by overzealous people who did not even see their films. I tend to believe that Dogma was made for pure reasons, but Smith would have me completely sold if he defended The Passion now.

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[TheMojoPin]

I'm wondering why Kevin Smith has not come to Mel Gibson's defense.

Actually, good guy that he is, Kevin already commented on it back in August of last year.

Filmmaker Kevin Smith has blamed the Bible for the controversy behind his Mel Gibson movie, "The Passion." (http://www.newsaskew.com/talkback/1061428745,51175,.shtml)

The ironic thing is (For Smith & O&A fans here) is that supporting this film puts him on the side of the folks that attacked "Dogma" the most, The Catholic League...

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[NewYorkDragons80]

If Smith wants to be seen as a man of integrity who earnestly feels that backlash by religious groups (Whether it be the Catholic League or the ADL) is wrong, he would support Gibson's movie. My only problem with Dogma was that it portrayed "prophets" as pro-choice and inaccurately accused the Catholic Church of non-action during the Holocaust. Aside from that, I felt Dogma was a good-intentioned film with a positive message not just for Catholics, but for religion in general. However, I'm disappointed that Smith's only consistent stance has been anti-Catholicism.

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[TheMojoPin]

Uhm, he WAS supporting Gibson in that link. Nor does he bring up anything "anti-Catholic." He just says that if the Bible is ultimately responsible for what people are taking issue with, then the problem is in the wording of the book itself, not Mel's literal translation.

In fact, the guy gets bashed for being "anti-Catholic" all the time, despite still being a devout Catholic himself, still being a regular churchgoer, having his daughter baptized and the like.

Sorry if it seems like I'm jumping over this...I just don't see where you got most of what you said from the link I posted.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

I must say that the notion of boycotting a film in advance over a religious argument is ridiculous. We took it on the chin for "Dogma" and then it came out and people realised it was reverent," he says.

"Mel has said he's sticking close to the Bible to make an accurate depiction of Christ's crucifixion, so perhaps the problem is not Mel. Maybe it's a Bible that throws around a term like 'Jew'. Perhaps it's time to clean up that book," he continues.
Alright, when I read the first paragraph, I thought it ended with "irreverent". On closer look, maybe he is just criticizing the specific wording using the word "Jew". At first, I saw the Bible criticism as a slam on Catholicism. What I was looking for him to say was "Maybe the problem isn't Mel, maybe it's people looking for something to be offended by."

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[East Side Dave]

thank fuckin christ. i was asleep before the second tape even came on. Wlliam Wallace my ass, gimmie some Dolomite


Get a DVD player, fucking commie.

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[furie]

I wasn't impressed by the controversy generated by The Last Temptation of Christ, and I'm not impressed here. If I watch it, It'll be because it's being shown on the history channel on Easter.


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[newport king]

isnt this going to be in aramaic with no subtitles anyway? how will i know who the jews are if i can't understand it?

~a newport king joint~

[East Side Dave]

They shoulda gotten Steve Guttenberg to play Joseph and then, see, he could leave the baby Jesus with Ted Danson but, oh boy!, babies are hard to handle!

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[jeffdwright2001]

FYI:


LOS ANGELES (AP) - The second coming of Mel Gibson's biblical epic "The Passion of the Christ" sold 4.1 million DVD copies by Wednesday after only one day in stores.

While the figure from distributor Fox Home Entertainment is high, it's not quite a record breaker.

"Finding Nemo" holds the No. 1 overall spot for one-day DVD sales with about 8 million. For a live-action movie, "Spider-Man" holds the one-day record with 7 million.

The Greatest Story Ever Sold? (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040901/D84R3UM80.html)

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[Freakshow]

hmm. Jesus is good.

Spiderman is better?

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[jeffdwright2001]

"Finding Nemo" holds the No. 1 overall spot for one-day DVD sales with about 8 million. For a live-action movie, "Spider-Man" holds the one-day record with 7 million.

I'm thinking someone should have kept an eye on just how many fish they were multiplying.

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This message was edited by jeffdwright2001 on 9-2-04 @ 10:17 AM

[Reephdweller]

C'mon, it's the kids who wanted Nemo and their spineless stupid parents who wanted to shut their little brats up who succumbed to their kids.

Who am I kidding, I bought Nemo the day it came out too.

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[TheMojoPin]

You mean even marketing the Lord's death in convenient 50-count "Church packs" STILL didn't push him over the top?

I BLAME ALL OF YOU!

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[jeffdwright2001]

You mean even marketing the Lord's death in convenient 50-count "Church packs" STILL didn't push him over the top?

I BLAME ALL OF YOU!

Did they charge congregations for 50 and only give them 45?

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This message was edited by jeffdwright2001 on 9-2-04 @ 12:16 PM

[Doctor Manhattan]

The DVD is only the Movie. no special features. Are they gonna make the Christans double dip in a few months, Like Hell Boy?

The Passion: Special Edition 3 disc DVD, coming soon!

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[Fallon]

I just watched it and it was good. They really beat the shit out of Jesus. Though I expected it to be more graphic. Maybe I'm desensitized to movie violence.

I wished the movie was more than his last 12 hours and focused more on his life.

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This message was edited by WWFallon on 9-2-04 @ 2:19 PM

[Teenweek]

I wished the movie was more than his last 12 hours and focused more on his life.

<

That is why is it is called the passion. It only focuses on those hours of his life.

[Mike Teacher]

The DVD is only the Movie. no special features. Are they gonna make the Christans double dip in a few months, Like Hell Boy?


Of course. Ive owned T2, T2 the Special Edition, and the new T2 I cant even remember what they are calling it [Extreme Edition?]. And some day they put it out on Superbit or something.

The Alien Movies? Well there was the first box set, then the Quadrilogy, and before that I bought the Laserdiscs at some obscene price. Ack.

=

There should be an upgrade option, like software. Buy and Register your Passion, if/when a New Passion comes out; you buy it alone at full price, or trade in your DVD for the Upgrade + a lesser cost.

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[TheMojoPin]

I wished the movie was more than his last 12 hours and focused more on his life.

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That is why is it is called the passion. It only focuses on those hours of his life.

Which is part of what bugged some Christians, myself included. It made Jesus' death seem like the only truly important thing he did, when really, if we're expected to live up to his "example," that ideal is based more on what he said and did during his LIFE.

Give me "Last Temptation of Christ" any day.

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1979 << I love my drug buddy... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."