R & F Religious Discussions

[curtoid]

Last night they got into the verbage of "Thou Shall Not Kill" vs. "Thou Shall Not Murder," which was pretty interesting, and today, during the fastest hour, Ron really got worked up (on the air) about the Mel Gibson movie, and basically the whole story of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and came out and said something not too many people would be willing to say - which is Ron's belief that Christ 12 hours of suffering, to connect with humanity and die for their sins, is nothing compared to the suffering mortals have gone through since the dawn of time.

Fez didn't agree, but had a hard time defending it, and for a moment it sounded a little heated (nothing too serious - just kind of the way it is when Mommy and Daddy's voices get too loud when they are talking about the phone bill). After a commercial break, their midday producer ("Spoon" - not to be confused with the Spoon that wa son here, but left), who is a born again Christian, didn't think Fez defended Jesus well enough, so they promised to bring it up on the air tonight.

Interesting - definately not the kind of real discussions ("Same old boring chit chat") you hear on other shows.

curtoid



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[Yerdaddy]

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BEN: Oh, you'll probably get away with crucifixion.
BRIAN: Crucifixion?!
BEN: Yeah, first offence.
BRIAN: Get away with crucifixion?! It's--
BEN: Best thing the Romans ever did for us.
BRIAN: What?!
BEN: Oh, yeah. If we didn't have crucifixion, this country would be in a right bloody mess.
BRIAN: Guards!
BEN: Nail him up, I say!
BRIAN: Guards!
BEN: Nail some sense into him!


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[mikeyboy]

(nothing too serious - just kind of the way it is when Mommy and Daddy's voices get too loud when they are talking about the phone bill).


If I have to sing Harper Valley P.T.A. and shake my butt, don't think I won't do it.

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[ChickenHawk]

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Ron's belief that Christ 12 hours of suffering, to connect with humanity and die for their sins, is nothing compared to the suffering mortals have gone through since the dawn of time.

If anyone can think of a worse form of execution than crucifixion, I'm all ears. Also, Christ spent the next 3 days in hell.

If I have to sing Harper Valley P.T.A. and shake my butt, don't think I won't do it.
I had to read that a few times to get it, but it was well worth it. Outstanding reference, my friend.

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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 2-19-04 @ 2:12 AM

[Yerdaddy]

If anyone can think of a worse form of execution than crucifixion, I'm all ears.

Matthias: Could be worse.
Centurion: What you mean "Could be worse"?
Matthias: Well, you could be stabbed.
Centurion: Stabbed? Takes a second. Crucifixion lasts hours. It's a slow, horrible death.
Matthias: Well, at least it gets you out in the open air.
Centurion: You're weird!
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[MizzleTizzle]

If anyone can think of a worse form of execution than crucifixion, I'm all ears. Also, Christ spent the next 3 days in hell.


Um, the whole point is he could only suffer if he was 100% human, not knowing the outcome. And since he wasn't, it's not suffering. This is applying logic to the bible, which won't work.

3 days in hell and then out? Sounds like the luckiest chap in the world.

And where in the Bible does it say he went to hell?

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Um, the whole point is he could only suffer if he was 100% human, not knowing the outcome. And since he wasn't, it's not suffering. This is applying logic to the bible, which won't work.
Well he was fully human.

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[Furtherman]

Jesus was just a man. Just like you and me. The whole son of god story was made up. Political points of view. Metaphors.

Keeps the pesants in check though.

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[newport king]

If anyone can think of a worse form of execution than crucifixion, I'm all ears.

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This message was edited by newport king on 2-19-04 @ 2:15 PM

[Se7en]

It wasn't about the method of his death, it was about the death itself. Christ was born to eventually die, to symbolically and literally die for mankind, to show that he loved humanity enough to walk upon Earth as one of them, experience their hardships, and know death, something gods are not supposed to experience.

But as far as death's go, crucifixion is not exactly an easy way to shuffle off this mortal coil, which is why the Romans were so fond of it.

Whatever, though, I've long ago ceased to listen to what Ron has to say about politics, religion or philosophy.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

9/11 was no doubt a gruesome and terrible day, but those people died relatively quick deaths. IMO, the method by which Jesus was killed is important, since it is the slowest and most painful death possible. To make matters worse, the Romans added a platform to support Jesus's feet. This prolonged death even more than crucifixion normally would. Not to mention the fact that the Romans normally tied victims to the cross.

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"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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[DrunkPaul]

Few people know the manner of death that crusifixion gives. When you're arms are held perpendicular to your body for a long period of time, fluid start to accumulate in your lungs. People don't die of thirst when they are on the cross. They actually drown. That is why the Roman soldier peirces Jesus below the ribs afterwards. To check for water in the lungs.


"My advice to you is to drink heavily." "You should listen to him, he's pre-med."

[Neogoon]

If anyone can think of a worse form of execution than crucifixion, I'm all ears.
Too easy. Try being tortured to death by the Inquisition. They made a science out of causing extreme pain over an extended period of time. You should read up on it -- having bits of your body plucked off with red hot tongs, skin flayed off your body, creative uses of molten lead, crushing/stretching implements, spikes and impaling instruments, while keeping you alive to prolong your agony until you finally die.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Ceci n'est pas une signature.

[ChickenHawk]

Not cool man... Not cool.

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This message was edited by ChickenHawk on 2-19-04 @ 3:43 PM

[newport king]

i wasn't trying to be cool but i removed it anyway.

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[Se7en]

i wasn't trying to be cool but i removed it anyway.



I don't know what your point was but it was not appropriate, especially given the number of people on this board from the NY area.

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[ChickenHawk]

Don't worry man, I know you weren't trying to be cool. It just kinda took me by surprise 'cuz I think we're all pretty sensitive to that stuff, and I didn't even lose anybody that day.

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HORDE KING FOREVER!!!
ORACLE NEVER!!!
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[ADF]

Whatever, though, I've long ago ceased to listen to what Ron has to say about politics, religion or philosophy.


That's a great way to go through life. From now on I'm only going to listen to people who say things with which I agree.

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This message was edited by ADF on 2-19-04 @ 6:35 PM

[zoom2457]

These discussions are the best. Sometimes it's really good to hear what other people are thinking without anyone trying to push one religion over another. Not many shows could tackle a huge subject like religion like Ron and Fez do and be completely non-judgemental.

They seriously are the best.

"Excuse me, excuse me I believe you have my stapler"

[newport king]

I don't know what your point was but it was not appropriate, especially given the number of people on this board from the NY area.

well the conversation was about what the worst form of execution was and since i am from the ny area and lost 2 people i know there, i saw that was the absolute worst form of killing someone.

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[whorehay]

yep

This message was edited by whorehay on 2-19-04 @ 11:55 PM

[Se7en]

Whatever, though, I've long ago ceased to listen to what Ron has to say about politics, religion or philosophy.


That's a great way to go through life. From now on I'm only going to listen to people who say things with which I agree.


Actually, it's more like choosing not to listen to an entertainer who's ceased to entertain me.

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[monsterone]

ron kept on trying to hammer home that it could have been worse. it's comparing apples and oranges.
rons point: there are more horrific deaths

the christian point: it was the physical death that made jesus suffer, it was his time in hell for each individual sin.



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[TheMojoPin]

Actually, it's more like choosing not to listen to an entertainer who's ceased to entertain me.

Because you don't like his opinions?

And I'm not trying to be snide. It honestly seems like that's what you're saying.

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[Freebird]

Overall I really enjoyed that part of the show. It didn't get crazy, it was genuine and it was allowed to run its course even though that was longer than expected. Some really great callers elevated that whole discussion.

king, I disagreed with your post only because while that was murder, I wouldn't say it was an execution. The crucifixion was punishment sanctioned by the authorities.

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Now I'm starving

I'm about to turn it up a notch!

[RocOutWithYACockOUT]

I never thought about it from Ron's perspective. When I think about it further more I think that Ron has a very strong and compelling point. I mean Jesus suffered for us on the cross but when you think about it he knew what was around corner being that he is the son of god. Human beings suffer and have no idea really of what is around the corner.

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[badorties]

And where in the Bible does it say he went to hell?


technically, it's not in the bible .... but as ron is known to note that us catholics are not required to read the bible, that's why we have priests ....

it appears in the fifth clause of the Apostles' Creed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm): (5) He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead



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[Furtherman]

I wonder when Jesus went to hell he thought "Oh shit. I guess I shouldn't have said all that I am the son of god stuff."

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