Using 9/11 for political gains

[DarkHippie]

The bush campaign was recently criticized for ads that used the world trade center wreckage. link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=13&u=/ap/20040304/ap_on_el_pr/bush_political_ads_9) Do you think it is in poor taste to use it? What do you think of the Republican Convention taking place in New York on the anniversary on the attacks?

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[Tall_James]

Poor taste? I would say more along the lines of "questionable taste". It was a defining moment in our country's history. Can you say that using the Vietnam War in ads would also be in poor or questionable taste because so many Americans died fighting there? Kerry is bound to use imagery from that war in his ads since Vietnam is used so prominently in his campaigning.

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that neither Republicans or Democrats can be seen to be the moral arbiters of what is and what isn't in good taste.

The only real arbiter of how these ads and others like them will be viewed is how the American public votes in November.


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[TheMojoPin]

Candidates in the 60's had no problems showing ads that very clearly stated that voting for their opposition would lead to us all getting nuked.

Politics has no taste.

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[Furtherman]

Do you think it is in poor taste to use it?


Damn right it is. Like we need to see the smoldering ruins of the WTC again? That image is burned in too many of our minds to begin with.

Last week I opened up the New York Post to see my friend Mike, who died on 9/11, his picture on the page because of Samuel Brandon, the retired firefighter who stole his Cantor Fitzgerald work ID from the rubble. What the story didn't tell you is that this scumbag Brandon called Mike's family, and said he wanted to return it - for some compensation of course.

He used 9/11 for monetary gains.

Bush's campaigners are using it for political gains.

They look the same to me: Greedy.


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[Teenweek]

I agree. I don't think it is bad taste but questionable in how you use it. 9/11 is the reason for the war on terror. It has to be mentioned in some way because it is obvious many people have already forgotten.

And the republican convention here being there, all I can say Good I am glad. It will help New York with money to our economy via hotels, restaurants, etc. The Democrats had a chance FIRST, but they wanted exclusivity and Bloomberg refused. Go fuck them and hang out with the rest of the losers up in Boston.

[zoom2457]

This is in such bad taste that I'm wondering if the people working on Bush's campaign are democrats.

That's the only reason I can think of.

But then again, remember when Starbuck's tried to use 9/11 in their ad campaign. It showed two big cups of Starbuck's cold coffe drinks with a dragon fly heading towards one of the cups.



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[Tall_James]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38086000/jpg/_38086610_020619_starbucks_150.jpg


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[sr71blackbird]

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites)'s day-old campaign commercials drew sharp criticism Thursday from relatives of the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and a firefighters union with ties to Democratic rival John Kerry (news - web sites) demanded they be pulled from the air.


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[Mike Teacher]

I don't want to see that shit again unless I wish too.

I know a few dozen who feel the same around here...

Paul Keating, my buddy, FDNY, in NY on a lark on his day off...

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[JustJon]

What do you think of the Republican Convention taking place in New York on the anniversary on the attacks?
I think you need to recheck your calendar. The convention is Aug 30 - Sept 2.

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[curtoid]

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites)'s day-old campaign commercials drew sharp criticism Thursday from relatives of the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and a firefighters union with ties to Democratic rival John Kerry (news - web sites) demanded they be pulled from the air.


Ooooooh! You blew the lid off that one by pointing out in bold that the Firefighters Union endorsed John Kerry.

Those sneaky, underhanded bastards!!!

Forgive me if i give the IAFF (http://daily.iaff.org/030404press.htm) a little more empathy than Karen "The Most Powerful and Evil Mother In the World" Hughes.

(Meanwhile, if anyone even mentions Bush family's reported ties with the Bin Laden family, and, well...they hypocrites show their stripes as it instantly denounced as more liberal propoganda - "Oh, THAT old story..." they say with a rolled eye tone in their message).

Politics has no taste.

True that. Doesn't mean we have to put up with it, or to not acknowledge the differing shades and importance of the tackiness with these "leaders" and their flunkies go over the line.

In my opinion, where I'm coming from (having worked almost a year with a project involved with 9/11 that put me in contact with survivors, victim's family members and the rescue workers) this sets a pretty low, low.



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[Se7en]

In my opinion, where I'm coming from (having worked almost a year with a project involved with 9/11 that put me in contact with survivors, victim's family members and the rescue workers) this sets a pretty low, low.

So, uh, Bush can POINT directly to a major instance of leadership he had --- but that's exploiting?

That makes as much sense as confusing a question about a voting record for an attack on one's patriotism or military service.

Meanwhile, if anyone even mentions Bush family's reported ties with the Bin Laden family, and, well...they hypocrites show their stripes as it instantly denounced as more liberal propoganda - "Oh, THAT old story..." they say with a rolled eye tone in their message).

Well, since there's no proof that business dealings that happened at least over a decade ago caused 9/11, and the chief proponent of that story is Michael Moore, the vilest of all liberal propagandists - they're justified in rolling their eyes.

I'll give you an analogy you can understand: what if I were to suddenly start talking about Vince Foster's suicide and all of the mysterious deaths that surrounded Clinton's days in Arkansas and the Whitewater investigation? I'm betting you'd be rolling your eyes too.

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[Bestinshow]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=040304&cat=news&st=newscampaignbushreactiondc

Funny how the title emphasizes the families who are against it. Than at the end of the article, almost as an afterthought, mentioned some families werent against it.

A president running for reelection is obviously running on what he has done in his previous term. And what was more defining than 9/11?

These pictures are not pretty to look at, but maybe its still too soon to be putting them away. I mean sometimes I feel that people have put it further behind them then they should have at this point.

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[Furtherman]

I mean sometimes I feel that people have put it further behind them then they should have at this point.


I'll agree with that, but obviously only because we wasted the majority of our forces going into Iraq instead of concentrating on finding Bin Laden.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Bush's opposition will attack him for his conduct after 9/11, so why can't he use his own post-9/11 decisions to win votes.

I have no problem with Bush using this as campaign material just as I have no problem with Kerry using his votes in favor of Iraq and Afghanistan for his campaign. These decisions are what make up the politician. If they can't use that, what can they use?

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[TheMojoPin]

NYD and Se7en, this thread is criticizing an ad where Bush is using Ground Zero ITSELF as propoganda, not his actions afterwards because of it.

There's obviously a huge difference.

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[A.J.]

I haven't seen the ad yet so I really don't know the context in which the 9/11 images were used.

Let's face it: 9/11 was a watershed moment in American history and it took place during Bush's tenure so I'm sure he would mention it in some capacity. For better or worse, it HAS shaped his Presidency.

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[Teenweek]

I haven't seen the ad yet so I really don't know the context in which the 9/11 images were used.



From a Ny post story describing the ad:

One of the 9/11 ads relies on images to tell the story, beginning with an American flag waving across the screen as Bush is sworn in as president. Later, the words "a day of tragedy" appear on screen along with wreckage of the World Trade Center, splashed with flashing emergency lights and sirens wailing in the background.

[Teenweek]

I haven't seen the ad yet so I really don't know the context in which the 9/11 images were used.



From a Ny post story describing the ad:

One of the 9/11 ads relies on images to tell the story, beginning with an American flag waving across the screen as Bush is sworn in as president. Later, the words "a day of tragedy" appear on screen along with wreckage of the World Trade Center, splashed with flashing emergency lights and sirens wailing in the background.

[keithy_19]

9/11 is the biggest event ever in America and it changed the world forever. We have a president who witnessed it and showed true leadership. And don't tell me if Al Gore was elected president that he wouldn't use that either.

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[TheMojoPin]

Spun another way, based on that description, the ad could be saying "Bush was elected...THEN 9/11 happened! Beware America!"

All around, a stupid, stupid thing to do.

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[HBox]

Here are the ads if you want to watch them. (http://www.georgewbush.com/tvads/)

I really don't think there's much 9/11 exploitation going on. It's actually lot less than I expected. But definitely check out the ad entitled "Safer, Stronger" or as I like to call it, "It's not my fault I'm such a crappy President!"

Also, recognize the complete lack of Dick Cheney in those ads. That's not an accident.

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[Dudeman]

9/11 is the biggest event ever in America

just wait until the civil war veterans log on and read this

(not to minimize 9-11, but that's just a bold statement Beefy)


-the dude is online-

This message was edited by Dudeman on 3-4-04 @ 6:03 PM

[Teenweek]

Also, recognize the complete lack of Dick Cheney in those ads. That's not an accident.

I really want him to pick Giuliani and than 2008 you have Giuliani vs Hillary.

[zoom2457]

And don't tell me if Al Gore was elected president that he wouldn't use that either.


Al Gore wouldn't have used that. There I said it.

Prove me wrong. Go back in your time machine, get Gore elected, come back to the present, see if Al Gore is using 9/11 and then go back in time re-fix the election so that Bush wins and the come back to the present time and let us know.

Just remember, if it wasn't for him, there wouldn't be an internet!


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[NewYorkDragons80]

Thank you HBox, for posting the ads and ending the BS specualtion so that we can move on to the true critiques.

"Safer, Stronger" uses 2 shots of Ground Zero, making it the ad with the most 9/11 footage. Both shots were of the American flag and some rubble. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

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[HBox]

One scene, if you look for it, shows firefighters carrying a flag covered coffin. That's the only thing I have a real problem with. I'd prefer it if this kind of imagery wasn't a part of this campaign, but it will be and this is very tame.

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[curtoid]

I'll give you an analogy you can understand:

Gee! THANKS for explaining it by putting it into a Vince Foster analogy! As someone who use to hang with Lee Atwater before he died, I really didn't understand the issues until you sat me down and `splained it in such a non-confrontational, un-condescending manor.

9/11 is the biggest event ever in America and it changed the world forever. We have a president who witnessed it and showed true leadership. And don't tell me if Al Gore was elected president that he wouldn't use that either.

Actually, you know what - it was a big event for America, but it's lasting impact on the rest of the world is far from your myopic perception, and in fact it has been diminished because of our president's reckless care with the world's trust. I would hope that Al Gore would not have used this kind of ploy for a reelection because I would hope you wouldn't be operating from an angle of "keep them in line through fear." People are so freaked out over the end of the world coming, they are wetting their beds and praying that Dubya saves them, all because the President has created a nation afraid, instead of shifting the focus to the 25,000 people that got out alive.

I don't see what all the fuss is about.

And Christians don't see why Jews get all uppity over "The Passion"

The people who have a problem have a problem because (a) the President said he would not exploit 9/11, (b) many of them feel WTC is a cemetery and especially (c) the way he has handled the investigation of 9/11.


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[bigbaldirish]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38086000/jpg/_38086610_020619_starbucks_150.jpg

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this was the stupidest thing ever. i worked for starbucks when that ad came out. we had the posters for 2 weeks before the attacks. we put em up on the 10th, took em down on the 15th.

and for those that don't know, one lady complained that the drinks look like the twin towers... and the dragon fly is a plane... and the slogan "collapse into cool" is all aimed at the twin towers.

STUPID! any business that would like to stay in business would NEVER do that.

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[monsterone]

ah, but starbucks over-charged the firefighters for bottled water. bastards!

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[Bestinshow]

Of course Starbucks did it on purpose! Everyone knows that Starbucks is a big corporation and big corporations are Evil and heartless! Im sure they were exploiting 9/11 to sell coffee, just like that evil republican president. As a matter of fact, because Starbucks made those adds before 9/11 just proves that they were even involved.

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[FMJeff]

Bad taste? Yeah...probably is...but he is a wartime president and he's got tough competition so using imagery with some punch is probably a good idea if he wishes to stay in office...

in the end he's fighting for his job...i'd do it if i thought it was the right move...

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[Mike Teacher]

ah, but starbucks over-charged the firefighters for bottled water. bastards!


Holy Shit was that a Starbucks? Wow am I glad I don't drink coffee. I remember that. The world is exploding around them, or so it might seem, and the FDNY comes in and needs water? If I was Manager I'd be like: just Take everything you guys need, including the fixtures, if it will help.



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[Tall_James]

I have more of a problem with Kerry using old sitcoms in his ad...

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