Pat Tillman is not a hero.

[Teenweek]

I hope this kid gets the worst beatdown ever.


He got what was coming to him (http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews...8/408f27f0591be)

Found these too.

Here Are his email addresses

******************EDIT*******************

These e-mail addresses and his phone number can probably be found online, but please do not post them publically here (Or anyone else's) just for the sake of harassing the person on the other end. If you want to e-mail/IM this info to people, great, that's your perogative, but please don't use this site as a sounding-board for such activity. It's a stretch, but it could get us into trouble.

Posting the article is OK, since the site containing it is down.

Personally, I think the kid is a douchemonster.

Thanks.

-TMP

*****************EDIT*******************

Here is a picture of the asshole as well.

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jbcp/rene.jpg

http://ourworld.cs.com/CTophe1981/tillman1.jpg

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 4-29-04 @ 9:37 PM

[Crippler]

This site is experiencing high traffic. Please try back later today

Yeah, I'll bet...douchebag.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/50299178.jpg
Let's get Sirius...
I plead the FiF!

This message was edited by Crippler on 4-29-04 @ 6:39 PM

[Teenweek]

I know don't post whole articles but it appears his website is getting pounded. Hope the mods understand and keep it.


Pat Tillman is not a hero: He got what was coming to him


By Rene Gonzalez
April 28, 2004



When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.

I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed."

But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship.

However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.

Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.

Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems.

http://ourworld.cs.com/CTophe1981/tillman1.jpg

[ChickenHawk]

This kid's just upset because he's the ugliest little pussy on the planet.

With any luck he'll commit suicide the next time a girl rejects him.

<IMG SRC="http://homepage.mac.com/papachristmas/.Pictures/chickenhawknike.jpg">
HORDE KING FOREVER!!! ORACLE NEVER!!!
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[Mike Teacher]

Well, it's getting pounded coz we love an argument, and dislike someone who is calling into question something others are; it's hits a distant chord for some who might argue some of the points as valid, but cloaked in bullshit.

As much as I am lothe to de-construct; he de-rails for good here:


It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary.


You might feel that way, and if everyone else did, things would be a whole lot different then they are now. The United Fourth Reich of America or The Japanese Soverign Territory of America are very easy to discount now; 50+ years later, but a study of the conflict shows that, but for some wisps of fate, This future, where a place existed where one is free to write such a thing and post it, might not exist.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/newsig">

[walking joint]

With any luck he'll commit suicide the next time a girl rejects him.


i don't think he cares what any girls think of him. it looks like he plays for the other team.

his mouth looks just like Gary from the Stern show...WILBUR!!!

This message was edited by walking joint on 4-29-04 @ 6:51 PM

[Teenweek]

UMASS president responds (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/04/29/bc.fbn.umass.tillmanfla.ap/index.html?cnn=yes)

http://ourworld.cs.com/CTophe1981/tillman1.jpg

[HBox]

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jbcp/rene.jpg

Ba-ba-booey.

http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/hotsbox.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The little shit who wrote that essay should realize that its because of people like Pat Tillman and everyone else in the military are protecting his freedoms. Let that douchebag try to live in a 3rd world country and see what happens to him if he tried to voice his opinion.

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

You know, it's people like Pat Tillman who VOLUNTEERED to go so little weenies like that grad student don't HAVE TO GO. They get to stay home and criticize those who went.


<IMG SRC=http://img18.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/alice2_sig.jpg>

It's a cat house! A CAT HOUSE! Thanks M1!

[Duke]

he is a hero anyone who joins the army should be a hero




<img src="http://images.satcam.aboho.com/dukesig.jpg"

[IAMTHEGAME]

I would want just 5 minutes with that little bitch!

The Cerebral Assassin of the RNF message board!

[WindowSill]

Id love to punch those horse teeth of his so far down his fn throat...



Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot


Well in my neighborhood in Brooklyn, youd have had a cap busted in your ass right now.



They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed."


You know what they call that? A lame attempt at humor.

He wasnt trying to be Rambo you dumb son of a bitch. Stop comparing him to characters in movies. This is real life you dick. Rambo didnt give up millions of dollars and a glamourous career as a great NFL player to go fight for his country. Not just as a soldier but an ELITE ARMY RANGER! When the fuckhead puts on a uniform and shoots off a couple round in 110 degree heat, in a desert thrid world country, where people literally spit on you, hell not even then can he say that shit. Jeez I gotta lay off of them Red Bulls!

http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v89/metalsat666/RFnetWindowSill.jpg
It's like a party in my mouth and everyone is throwing up.

[IAMTHEGAME]

Hey does this ass fucker reliuze there must have been a ton of puerto ricans that died on sept 11 th yet he calls the wars idiotic.I wish I could break this guys face.Seriously I would punch him until my hand broke.

The Cerebral Assassin of the RNF message board!

[TooCute]

Hey does this ass fucker reliuze there must have been a ton of puerto ricans that died on sept 11 th yet he calls the wars idiotic.

Because the war in Iraq has so much to do with 9-11, that's right.


<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/toocute3.gif">

[Teenweek]

Because the war in Iraq has so much to do with 9-11, that's right.




Tillman died in Afghanistan. That's the war we are allowed to fight.

http://ourworld.cs.com/CTophe1981/tillman1.jpg

[schmega]

Because the war in Iraq has so much to do with 9-11, that's right.

give it a rest. thats not what this thread's about.

http://gilseed.home.acedsl.com/sig.jpg

[NewYorkDragons80]

For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars
I bet this guy hates getting a blowjob too.

EDIT: I personally support the war in Iraq, but my real criticism is that he's giving shit to the war in Afghanistan and a man, nay, the people who have died while directly defending the United States in that country.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 4-29-04 @ 10:24 PM

[Se7en]

I wish cancer upon this little shit and everyone who agrees with his particular point of view.

Alice is absolutely correct - Tillman died so fuckwads like this can go online and cheapen his death. Your freedom is paid for in the blood of men like Tillman, jackass - the LEAST you could do is to shut your fucking mouth and appreciate that enough not to piss on his grave.

Because the war in Iraq has so much to do with 9-11, that's right.

Tillman died in Afghanistan. That's the war we are allowed to fight.

Well, I must say:

OWNED.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

[monsterone]

However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot.


and i bet in that same neighborhood you're called cabr¢n. lil bitch

<center><img border=1 src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=monsterone01"><br></center>

<center>

<font color="black" size="1"> don't you think it's funny that if i grab a woman's ass and she punches me, she's fighting for her rights, but if a faggot grabs my ass and i punch his lights out, i'm a homophobe? </font>


<font color="white">moe & horde king, come back soon</font>


</center>
[color=White]

[keithy_19]

That little fuck is just upset because he wasn't good enough to play baseball.

http://www.silentpix.com/modules/Coppermine/albums/userpics/dreamcometruesig.jpg

[monsterone]

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jbcp/rene.jpg


when i was a wee youngen, i used to skip to school and drag a stick across this kid's teeth.

<center><img border=1 src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=monsterone01"><br></center>

<center>

<font color="black" size="1"> don't you think it's funny that if i grab a woman's ass and she punches me, she's fighting for her rights, but if a faggot grabs my ass and i punch his lights out, i'm a homophobe? </font>


<font color="white">moe & horde king, come back soon</font>


</center>
[color=White]

[alexc]

this guy is a moron.. I can't believe he is getting a doctorate in political science.

[curtoid]

The chilling aftermath of 9/11 continue to be felt. While I found the kid's comments offensive, immature and out of line (in my opinion, Tillman was a brave hero and it's important for America to finally have a face on those fighting and dying, those that volunteers, and especially not to forget those in Afghanistan, which despite the smugness of those who want to appear ironically wounded by calling it "the war we are allowed to fight," really is off of the radar screen of most Americans), they were still his opinions and this dopey kid should be allowed to make them.

The fact that I feel I must qualify my own comments only underscores (for me) where we are in this country when it comes to discourse - the histrionics and reactions of people threatened by counter opinions I find equally disturbing.



http://img21.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/45.gif
[b][i]Much thanks to M1 for the siggie...!i][b]

[East Side Dave]

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jbcp/rene.jpg



How could someone like this ever be named Rene?!?!

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Big Ass Mafia

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[Freakshow]

Never have I been more proud to be a Penn State alumus.

No wait. Not proud. What's the word?



Ahh, ashamed.

Never have I been more ashamed to be a Penn State alumnus.



<img src=http://www.christpuncherrecords.com/sigs/moon.jpg>
I left my brain inside my other head

[Mike Teacher]

give it a rest. thats not what this thread's about.


giving it a rest. but well said. i'd say tillman is about every person who ever served, or died in a war; when numbers like 100 million over two World Wars alone hit the brain: 100,000,000 dead; i think this is about every last soldier and citizen who has had to endure the strife, displacement, horror, shock, and hell on earth that war is.

Every weapon, every bomber, every bullet made, is, paraphrasing Dwight David is 'Humanity Hanging from a Cross of Iron'

Ten years ago, Now, 1994, the deaths were perhaps 8,000 a day in the tribal fighting between the Hutu and Tutsi in Rwanda; and we sat and watched. For 100+ days; 800,000 to 1 million are the estimated dead in those horrific months, where this Agnostic thinks Hell, literal Hell, appeared here on earth, by our invitation. Its all about All, this species, that if one looks around, might be on the edge of failure, in my humble opinion.

SoapBox Mode Switch to [OFF]

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/newsig">

[Jack_Doff]

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/education/3250246/detail.html

Follow up to the original story:

Gonzalez declined to be interviewed by NewsCenter 5 saying he was overwhelmed by the reaction and death threats he has received.

He did, however, issue a statement that read, in part, "I mean no disrespect to the family of Patrick Tillman, and I would be very hurt to learn they were hurt by my comments. My intent was to open a debate on whether or not serving the in U.S. military is a de facto reason for considering someone a hero."

Yes, volunteering for something with a strong possiblity of death is enough to make someone a de facto hero. My real issue with this follow up: if you want to say something, stand by it. Don't make a semi-apology later because people are pissed off at you.

This message was edited by Jack_Doff on 4-30-04 @ 9:57 AM

[Tall_James]

Don't make a semi-apology later because people are pissed off at you.


Agreed.


<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~jamesgpatton/tj2_sig.gif>

The Priest wore black on the seventh day and sat stone-faced while the building burned
[center]The Best Blog You're Not Reading (http://cheeseeatingbird.blogspot.com)

[zoom2457]

I don't feel like his "service" was necessary.


THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT, GENIUS!!!! It was completely unnecessary, but he went anyway. That's what elevates him to a hero.

Pat Tillman had one of the most enviable, well-paying jobs in America. How many people wouldn't love a chance to be a sports figure? You're famous, you're rich and you get to play a game as your job.

Pat Tillman left all of that money, and influence to get paid next to nothing (compared what he had been making) to go fight in a war. (He did this right after 9/11, which I would speculate was the main reason he did it.)

He did what our President and Vice-President refused to do during Vietnam. He went to war.



"Excuse me, excuse me I believe you have my stapler"

[Se7en]

The fact that I feel I must qualify my own comments only underscores (for me) where we are in this country when it comes to discourse - the histrionics and reactions of people threatened by counter opinions I find equally disturbing.

I hope you'd be gracious enough to acknowlege that goes both ways.

I hope.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
<br>
<br>
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

[A.J.]

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jbcp/rene.jpg

Ba-ba-booey.

http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/hotsbox.jpg

Good one! :)

<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>

A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[murfee]

pat tillman is a hero same as all the rest who are severing

joe poo ruulz and bring ron
and fez back to nyc damm it

[reeshy]

all the rest who are severing


Why don't you be a hero too and try "severing" your dork, asshole!!!!!

[center]<IMG SRC=http://64.177.177.182/katylina/mrbadtouchsig.jpg>
[center] Let's finish with a thought from star Ozzy Astaire: 'Oooh yeah SatCam and MrBadTouch shoo badaby dooo.'

[murfee]

ok serving are you happy ass hole


joe poo ruulz and bring ron
and fez back to nyc damm it

[monsterone]

Jack_Doff, zoom2457, and murfee. well put

<center><img border=1 src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=monsterone01"><br></center>

<center>

<font color="black" size="1"> don't you think it's funny that if i grab a woman's ass and she punches me, she's fighting for her rights, but if a faggot grabs my ass and i punch his lights out, i'm a homophobe? </font>


<font color="white">moe & horde king, come back soon</font>


</center>
[color=White]

[curtoid]

I hope you'd be gracious enough to acknowlege that goes both ways.

I hope.

Come off the cross, we need the wood, se7en.

If you continue to take my comments personally, and continue to tail me on here to try and trip me up, that's not my problem, that's yours. I have said time and again my points on issues, and where I have come from with them (to put some sort of context on them) - how I am actually a registered Republican, but have voted Democrat almost as many times have I have voted for the GOP and independents - how I feel I have been pushed from that party because moderate voices get drowned out by the religeous right and the neo cons.

Stop being personally wounded. If you are not one of those people I described, then 'm not talking about you.

You did, in a post from earlier in the year, write with particular glee (on more than one occasion) that Republicans are strong with their support of Bush simply because "he's not one of you."

And then there is indignation because the Dems are voting for Kerry "because he's not Bush!"

Christ.

I do not care who you vote for. Neither of us live in any of the 17 states that really matter this go around, and you can do whatever you want with your support.

And simply from your posts on here, I can make a personal observation that you are acting much like other republicans I know (which include family members and best friends), as well as republicans we all see on television, which are treating this election as a game - wanting to win at all cost.

And as much as I can't stand Nader, I see it as much healthier (even at the risk of "losing") that those on the left are treating politics a little more carefully.

But that's my opinion.

Sorry if it offended you or hurt your feelings.

:)



http://img21.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/45.gif
[b][i]Much thanks to M1 for the siggie...!i][b]

[BoondockSaint]

Tillman died saving other Rangers (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/189142p-163619c.html)

Pat Tillman, the NFL-star-turned-G.I., was awarded a Silver Star yesterday for saving fellow Special Operations soldiers last month from a sneak attack by heavily armed militants in Afghanistan, the military disclosed yesterday.




http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/albundy.bmp
Thanks to monsterone for the sig!

[NewYorkDragons80]

While I found the kid's comments offensive, immature and out of line (in my opinion, Tillman was a brave hero and it's important for America to finally have a face on those fighting and dying, those that volunteers, and especially not to forget those in Afghanistan, which despite the smugness of those who want to appear ironically wounded by calling it "the war we are allowed to fight," really is off of the radar screen of most Americans), they were still his opinions and this dopey kid should be allowed to make them.
Right. That's why he won't be arrested. He will, however, be tooled on by me while I exercise my right to free speech by ripping him apart.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[shamus mcfitzy]

Because the war in Iraq has so much to do with 9-11, that's right.




give it a rest. thats not what this thread's about.



i think it kinda is considering the guy's argument. Sure this guy is a complete asshole who is calling soldiers idiot's and downplaying a guy's heroic effort as a way of making his argument. That's horrible and he deserves to be havily criticzed.

The guy is saying that Tillman and other soldiers didn't need to be killed as far as he is concerned and that soldiers shouldn't be praised for dying when that's what they are supposed to do (that's what I think he's saying). Which I think is partly true (now try to read on and not press reply instantly) because this country I think overdoes it. Believe me, I think ANY man that dies for his country is a hero in his own way, because I could not do that (I had the chance to go to West Point and didn't). But:

1) Americans tend to value THEIR soldiers too much (maybe people in general, I only know of what I see). A great majority (the "stupid" I call them) like to villanize completely those that die on the enemy side (including civilians) as deserving to die and that the US soldiers that die as being heroes. That's giving into the same stupid misconceptions that all Americans are evil and that terrorists are just protecting their interests, which fuel terrorism against us. In acknowledging 100's of deaths and downplaying thousands it is counter-productive to humanity in my opinion.

2) Soldiers know the risks, and, as has been pointed out by all sports media, but ignored by Mr. MIT, Pat Tillman wouldn't have wanted his death fawned over. He would've wanted his death to be just as valued as any other Americans. And in our media's over-reaction over {gasp} American military casualties {gasp} other Americans are certainly lost in the shuffle. Maybe this guy was just mad that the media was painting this guy as a superly honorable man merely because he was a football player turned soldier who died in combat. Soldiers die in combat, that's why they're there. I think it is valid to say that soldiers shouldn't be considered the pinnacle of society because they are doing their jobs. I don't feel that way, but i can see how others can.

Ultimately, this guy is the kind of ultra-liberal that is just bone-chillingly obsessed with being leftist. He's probably just trying to stir controversy that shouldn't be stirred (but I think we all knew was going to be). In his inane nonesense there is an argument there though, one that is just clouded by the fact that the guy is an ass.

This message was edited by shamus mcfitzy on 5-3-04 @ 1:45 AM

[ChickenHawk]

1) Americans tend to value THEIR soldiers too much
Is it really possible to value human life TOO much?

<IMG SRC="http://homepage.mac.com/papachristmas/.Pictures/chickenhawknike.jpg">
HORDE KING FOREVER!!! ORACLE NEVER!!!
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<marquee behavior=alternate><font size=2><b>EMFA</b></font></marquee>

[shamus mcfitzy]

well it is when you value some lives over others. For example, and maybe its just that my father is a cop, but there is not nearly the praise for a policeman's death as there is a soldier. The same stupid kids who think they're being urban and cool by trying to say that they hate the "pigs" are ones that just as easily will say that they love America and the troops.

[Def Dave in SC]

I agree with you Shamus, except on one point.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that it is the job of a soldier to die. Unfortunately for a soldier doing his job, death is a very real possibility.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=DefDave"><br>

Much Love to my Homies dcpete, Todd EVF, Pantera, Tall_James, Saddlelight Kam (sp?) and everyone else who made me a sig


UCF:AYBABTU

[TheMojoPin]

"It is NOT the duty of a soldier to die for his country.

It is the duty of a soldier to make the miserable bastard on the OTHER side die for HIS country."

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Doctor Manhattan]

Did I read the article correctly? It looked like Tillman gave up a cushy "job" to serve his country as one of the Army Rangers. I also looked like this person thought the war itself was un just, but I didn't see anything to take away from Tillman's actions or the man himself.

Lots of people are against the war but still support the troops. The troops didn't make the choice to go to war, the Troops didn't lie about WMDs. But the Troops are serving all of us, even the idiot who wrote this crap. They serve not only the 50 United States but the US territories.

Tillman died saving other rangers after he was safe! No matter why he was there, that simple fact makes him a hero, he went back to save his friends!

<a href="http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show.cgi?show=73"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/KillBillv205.jpg" border=0></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 5-4-04 @ 9:10 AM