why

[Dirtybird11]

OK, Mr. KIng, U have impressed me with your vast knowledge and you were most awesome on the air. so tell me,: WHY?

<img src="http://members.aol.com/erinmoran01/images/spicoli5.jpg" height =100 width=300> The dream is over~ John Lennon

[JustJon]

because

<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/rfjustjon2.jpg">

[IkeaBoy]

why not?

"Nothing can kill The Grimace"

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Where was God?

[Dirtybird11]

where was god? are u kidding?
god was shot dead on Dec 8.1980

<img src="http://members.aol.com/erinmoran01/images/spicoli5.jpg" height =100 width=300> The dream is over~ John Lennon

[IkeaBoy]

God IS dead. He was very small and had a leather jacket with "GOD" written on the back in rhinestones

"Nothing can kill The Grimace"

[TomPoo]

You know, this is not a time to start bashing God, cause while some are angry, others take comfort in him.

Please don't start a "God is Dead" thread now, cause to many diverse people check out this board at for some that is the last thing they need to see right now.

REEKING of AWESOMENESS
----TomPoo

<img border="0" src="http://www.viewaskew.com/clerks/images/pics/danteran.gif" width="200" height="100">

"There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?"

[reeshy]

If God is dead, then we are certainly lost

[HordeKing1]

PERRYNOID - Your question is excellent. As we struggle to understand what has happened, we want to know WHY it happened. When an elderly person dies at 98, it is easier to accept than when a baby dies of SID. In the former, we understand "why," in the latter we do not.

There is no satisfactory answer that will please everyone. Some may look to the terrorists as God's agents acting as part of the
Divine Plan. Others might look towards the nature of humanity and the capacity for evil that exists.

No matter the source of the terrorists hatred, these people acted to kill thousands and put thousands more out of work. The blow to the US economy has not even begun to be assessed.

The best answer I can give you, Perrynoid, is that evil people exist. This horror is a prime example.

I strongly feel that evil is like a cancer that can spread and infect the whole human organism. It MUST be stopped by whatever means necessary to prevent this from happening.

In the interum, we can all take great pride in the FACT that there are many many good people as demonstrating by the outpouring of volunteerism and blood, food and clothing donation.




http://members.aol.com/slipknot4twenty/hking

[HordeKing1]

TOMPOO - You are absolutely 100% correct.

There is a time and place for philisophical discussion, and no one loves them more than I.

However, any source of support and comfort that a person can cling to is a positive thing, be it God, religion, spirituality, family or friends.

They are all resources for support. Utilize them.

http://members.aol.com/slipknot4twenty/hking

[IkeaBoy]

While many might take comfort in religion and God you have to admit that it was religion and God that caused the Attack on America.

"Nothing can kill The Grimace"

[CYYYFYYY]

Why did G-d let this happen.
I am not a religous man but
this is my take. G-d will not
control people. G-ds biggest
gift is free will. G-d will
not stop you while you are
cheating on your girlfriend
saying.... Young man this is
wrong and he cuts off your
D-ck. Even though cheating on
your girlfriend is wrong.
When you have a planbt. The
Plant considers you its G-d.
You water it and what not. If
for some reason you forget to
water it and dies that does
not mean you do not exist. I
hope this has been
hel


David the Franchize
Let them eat Cake!

[HordeKing1]

CYYYFYYY - I'm sure you know I'm an atheist. My take on this horror is much different from the way religious people view it.

I suggest that theists consult their clergy for answers on why god caused or allowed this tragedy.

At another time, I'll be delighted to discuss the concept of free will vs. omnipotence, or any other matter of religious doctrine.


http://members.aol.com/slipknot4twenty/hking

[Dirtybird11]

if you ask me, god rox. HOWEVER, he was sleppin on the job on the 11th.

<img src="http://members.aol.com/erinmoran01/images/spicoli4.bmp" height=100 width =300>
cum to butthead...

[HordeKing1]

PERRYNOID - What makes you so sure God is male?

http://members.aol.com/slipknot4twenty/hking

[NewYorkDragons80]

You can take the easy way out and blame religion, but this was done out of hatred of America.

HordeKing, there's no denying the existence of a being who created mankind. It's just a matter of whether it is a loving, indifferent, or angry God. Evolution proves there is a God (Contrary to many literalists.) The fact that a being interferes in nature and allows a species to continue to exist when it has a natural setback is staggering proof of his existence.

The problem is some religious people don't have a full understanding of religion (Or at least Catholic understanding of it.)

The Catholic Church says we should not do things to "Show off" to God, but because we really think it's the right thing to do. These terrorists did the former.

Catholics also believe that if someone lives a moral life, but doesn't believe because they don't fully understand the concept of the faith, they will be saved. HK, while I believe this is true, (and judging by your posts you have strong morals) I strongly urge you to re-evaluate your faith or lack thereof.

It just hurts me when people do not believe.

"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwartzkoff

"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain

[sunndoggy8]

HordeKing, there's no denying the existence of a being who created mankind.


Pootertoot, HK, comment?

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/sunnysig1.jpg" width=300 height=80>

<font color="#0F00CD">~~".............................................."-~~</font color="#0F00CD">

[Se7en]

Yes, God did exist. He died. He was very small. Mystery solved!

The world has a brief period of mourning.

And then it's business as usual, on the streets and highways that God built!

KITH RULES!!!

<img border="0" src="http://www.se7enmovie.com/images/splash/middle.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"I smoke. I take drugs. I drink. I wash every six weeks. I masturbate constantly and fling my steaming poison semen down from my window to your hair and food. I'm a rich and respected columnist for a major metropolitan newspaper. I live with two beautiful women in the city's most expensive and select community. Being a bastard WORKS."
--Spider Jerusalem

[CYYYFYYY]

In the infamous statement....
there needs to be a G-d
because who else could have
made human life..... then the
question is..... who made
G-d??????????????


David the Franchize
Let them eat Cake!

[HordeKing1]

NEWYORKDRAGON80 - Where do you think the hatred of America came from? Religious indoctrination.

More people have been killed in the name of God than from all other causes combined.

You write "there's no denying the existence of a being who created mankind." SURPRISE! I deny it. I find it to be a crock of shit. It's value is that it can give comfort to people who believe in times of stress and (as has been used countless time throughout history) to stir up the ignorant masses to hate those with religious beliefs different from theirs.

Have you ever taken a course in evolution, or microbiology, or chemistry or genetics? I don't think so or you wouldn't make the ridiculous statement that, "Evolution proves there is a God."

Evolution has NOTHING to do with any mythical being interfering in "nature." Study these topics. You'll learn it's all about chaos. Random chance. Organisms best suited to a particular environment survive to reproduce more than those not suited for the environment. God, fairy's, the easter bunny and Santa Claus have no part in evolution or any empirical rational science.

Here's my favorite line of yours. "The problem is some religious people don't have a full understanding of religion (Or at least Catholic understanding of it.)" You prove my earlier point. You believe that only Catholics have a true understanding of what religion is and a direct hotline to "the one true god". LOL. To your way of thinking, your Catholic beliefs make you morally superior to all other people of all religions and to atheists and agnostics alike.

If only the terrorist worshiped the catholic god this never would have happened. Yeah, lets just forget about the Crusades, and Inquisition and destrction of hundreds of thousands of south american indians (b/c their chief threw a bible on the floor). Forget these for a moment.

From whence comes your moral superiority? Oh yes, a direct hotline to the one true god. But, when was the last time this god spoke to you, or anyone? Why has there never been any direct physical evidence of this god. Why isn't his existance demonstrable? You can't seriously believe that the gods, (oops i mean the catholic GOD) decided to go away for a few milenuim and see what happened. If he was real we would know.

You wrote, "It just hurts me when people do not believe." Sigh. It hurts me when others attempt to impose their morals on others.

I am very comfortable in my knowledge that there is no god. Yet, I respect your right to worship should you feel it helps. Perhaps some introspection on the exact reason why you believe in general and why you beleive your beliefs superior to anyone else's and finally, why you feel the need to postletyze is in order.


http://members.aol.com/slipknot4twenty/hking

[Captain Rooster]

I am just going to say this again!

there is a big difference between religion and Faith

<img src=http://ltrooster.homestead.com/files/roosternladin.jpg>
God Bless America!

[Captain Rooster]

Rooster wrote:

[I am just going to say this again!

there is a big difference between religion and Faith]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Still trying to rack up those posts, eh, ROOSTER. LOL




hey HK - I thought WALRUS said no more quoting allowed - LOL!

<img src=http://ltrooster.homestead.com/files/roosternladin.jpg>
God Bless America!

[Dirtybird11]

uh..god has to be a guy, if god was a chick, do you think the world would be in the mess it is today?

<img src="http://members.aol.com/erinmoran01/images/spicoli4.bmp" height=100 width =300>
cum to butthead...

[NewYorkDragons80]

"The problem is some religious people don't have a full understanding of religion (Or at least Catholic understanding of it.)" You prove my earlier point. You believe that only Catholics have a true understanding of what religion is and a direct hotline to "the one true god".

HK, I was just bringing up Catholic beliefs because they are mine and they are the ones I know. I am not sure whether Muslims have the same beliefs, so I didn't want to be incorrect. I don't think my morals are superior, I just wasn't sure on the exacts of the morals of others. In theory, Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same God. I don't think my God is superior because it is the same as theirs and we have the same basic beliefs. BUT, they aren't EXACTLY the same, so I didn't want to speak for a community I don't know about.

I think you misinterpreted what I meant by "At least that's what Catholics believe."

How do you know the cause for the attacks? Nobody has even claimed responsibility for it, let alone announce their cause. What we do know is that one of the hijackers was not religious, which insinuates the attack was committed simply out of hatred for the American way. It would, however, be absurd to say religion wasn't used to brainwash those responsible.

I'll agree HK, that religion has caused some to act violently. So has the color of skin, language, and ancestry. It's those who bastardize their faith that are responsible. Don't blame their creator, blame them.

The Crusades, Inquizition, etc. were AWFUL!!! Again, you make a great point HordeKing. Like I said, it's those who bastardize their faith that are responsible.

If taken in healthy moderation, religion is the most enriching aspect of life.

All I know about chaos I learned in Jurassic Park. Isn't the entire concept of chaos just a theory?

"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwartzkoff

"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain

This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 10-3-01 @ 4:38 PM

[Se7en]

Dragon....

As someone who does believe in God, I appreciate what you're trying to do, BUT...

...it doesn't really do any good to argue with atheists, like HordeKing. They're never going to change their mind. You're not going to change your mind. Then it just degenerates into a "You're stupid cause you believe in a god! HA!" vs. "You're going to hell because you don't believe in a god, HA!" argument.

Imagine.....Imagine a world...

Imagine a world where I didn't have to hear petty pissing contests like this. I'd settle for that.

<img border="0" src="http://www.se7enmovie.com/images/splash/middle.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"I smoke. I take drugs. I drink. I wash every six weeks. I masturbate constantly and fling my steaming poison semen down from my window to your hair and food. I'm a rich and respected columnist for a major metropolitan newspaper. I live with two beautiful women in the city's most expensive and select community. Being a bastard WORKS."
--Spider Jerusalem

[NewYorkDragons80]

Se7en, I understand what you're saying and I really do sincerely like Hordeking. On the subject of "You're going to hell." This is what I said in this very topic:
Catholics also believe that if someone lives a moral life, but doesn't believe because they don't fully understand the concept of the faith, they will be saved. HK, while I believe this is true, (and judging by your posts you have strong morals)
But I agree, nobody's changing. And I'm getting exhausted trying to change people, as I'm sure HK is.

"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwartzkoff

"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain

[Death Metal Moe]

God never was. And just to let you know, Humans are a 1 in a million cosmic MISTAKE that is so crule, it leaves us searching for this "meaning" when there is none. Sorry y'all.

But if a white haired guy in the clouds helps you get to sleep better at night, then "GOD" bless.

http://www.bigsexxxy.homestead.com/files/new_masked.gif

[vleon]

WE ARE GODLESS
=-=-==-=-=-=-==
there is no god
up in the air
if he exists
he must not care

no one to catch
collapsing masses
no one to save them
from venemous gasses

faith is rubble
shattered and charred
prayers are inaction
that deepen the scars

unfold your hands
turn them to fists
there is no god
to guide us through this



=-=-=
In the end, all of this means
nothing.

[HordeKing1]

NEWYORKDRAGON80 - Theists often see it as their mission to change people. Atheists have no desire to change anyone.

We each present our point of view, and since instruments of torture (aside from Sunday school) are no longer condoned by the Church, the atheists mostly remain atheists, the theists mostly remain theists.

Mostly.

However, there are less and less religious people every decade. As science explains the mysteries of the universe formerly attributed to god(s) the belief in these deities decreases.

But your beliefs are certainly not less valid than mine. God is a theory as is a lack of god. Since neither proposition can be proven we must use our intellect to determine how we wish to proceed in life.

http://members.aol.com/slipknot4twenty/hking

[Captain Rooster]

NewYorkDragons80

Remember when the apostles knocked the dust off of their sandals and moved on.

Some will refuse to hear.

I love these lyrics and P.O.D is a Christian Band that has a #1 hit with a song to God.

God Bless America - these lyrics really speak to me after almost being hit by a plane on the 11th.


P.O.D. (Payable on Death) - Alive

Everyday is a new day
I'm thankful for every breath I take
I won't take it for granted
So I learn from my mistakes
It's beyond my control, sometimes it's best to let go
Whatever happens in this lifetime
So I trust in love
You have given me peace of mind

chorus:
I feel so alive for the very first time
I can't deny you
I feel so alive
I feel so alive for the very first time
And I think I can fly

Sunshine upon my face
A new song for me to sing
Tell the world how I feel inside
Even though it might cost me everything
Now that I know this, so beyond, I can't hold this
I can never turn my back away
Now that I've seen you
I can never look away

[chorus]

[bridge:]
Now that I know you (I could never turn my back away)
Now that I see you (I could never look away)
Now that I know you (I could never turn my back away)
Now that I see you (I believe no matter what they say)



<img src=http://ltrooster.homestead.com/files/roosternladin.jpg>
God Bless America!
<img src=http://gvac.50megs.com/images/flagusa.gif>

[Se7en]

However, there are less and less religious people every decade. As science explains the mysteries of the universe formerly attributed to god(s) the belief in these deities decreases

How can you say that? That might be accurate in terms of "civilized" countries, but religions such as Islam are sweeping entire continents like Africa like the plague (pardon the analogy to any Muslims reading this). You're taking a view that science automatically disproves the existence of any deity, and that's just not the case.

Everything is a theory. Religion is a theory, but so is evolution. The only difference between the two is that one of those theories is respected, while the other is not.

<img border="0" src="http://www.se7enmovie.com/images/splash/middle.jpg" width="300" height="100">

"I smoke. I take drugs. I drink. I wash every six weeks. I masturbate constantly and fling my steaming poison semen down from my window to your hair and food. I'm a rich and respected columnist for a major metropolitan newspaper. I live with two beautiful women in the city's most expensive and select community. Being a bastard WORKS."
--Spider Jerusalem

[NewYorkDragons80]

History has told us that roughly 20% are hard-core believers, 20% are hard-core disbelievers and 60% are undecided/don't care. I believe that like good and evil, this balance will always exist.

By the way, HK, I'll be the first to admit I WAS trying to change you. Looking back, it was a battle I couldn't win, but I have no shame in admitting it was my intention.

"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwartzkoff

"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain

[HordeKing1]

You might get a kick out of this website. It has quotes from many famous atheists. My favorites are Mark Twain, Charles Darwin, Clarance Darrow and Freud of course.


http://www.visi.com/~markg/atheists.html

http://members.aol.com/slipknot4twenty/hking

[Godzilla]

God conversations with Horde King.....hours of fun, but in the end, nothing is changed except the time.

Abortion convos with the King are even more fun. I suggest trying that someday. :)

<center><IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/godzilla5x/myhomepage/godzilla%20sig%20pic%2001.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US">

[NewYorkDragons80]

I had always thought Darwin was a unitarian.

I was surprised with James Madison, Taft, and Einstein.

I was also surprised that Tito and Stalin actually had some spirituality about them.

I think skepticism helps me understand my faith better and how to view it.

Movies to check out: The Matrix, The Last Temptation of Christ.

Books: Defending the Bible from Fundamentalists by David Prong

"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwartzkoff

"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain