View Full Version : We lost
Doomstone
05-21-2004, 12:44 AM
Period.
We lost.
Admit it, and move on.
No more "staying the course" and no more "winning hearts and minds"
We lost.
Pull our troops NOW.
Let the UN take control or let Iraq plunge into civil war. We can do no good there. Only harm.
We lost.
All we can do now is make amends.
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sr71blackbird
05-21-2004, 01:23 AM
...what are you trying to say?
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KERMIT
05-21-2004, 01:25 AM
I do not understand.
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Your so stupid. that i do not know why i am not dating you.
Tall_James
05-21-2004, 04:23 AM
Quitter.
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Mike Teacher
05-21-2004, 04:39 AM
what was the score?
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Melrapuo
05-21-2004, 04:46 AM
We lost
And it's YOUR fault.
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Reephdweller
05-21-2004, 05:14 AM
http://www.00fun.com/bush3.gif
You folks who doubt him amaze me, I mean c'mon he told you himself that it's all going to work out. See the below quote...
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- George W. Bush
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Iamnotatool
05-21-2004, 05:36 AM
I've taken good shits in the past, I will continue to take good shits.
Gotta love bobblehead George
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Freakshow
05-21-2004, 06:01 AM
We lost
You Sharks fans are such sore losers.
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IrishAlkey
05-21-2004, 06:26 AM
An absolute disaster...
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jeffdwright2001
05-21-2004, 07:19 AM
Period.
We lost.
Have you considered IVF?
Yerdaddy
05-21-2004, 07:26 AM
Sadly, I agree. But we still can't leave. It will probably end up a failed state, and like the president has said, failed states are a threat. No, this thing is a salvage operation now, and the stakes are just as high as they were when we started. But this has hurt us bad in ways we will be dealing with for at least a generation. But as long as we're stuck on this planet, we can't abandon our responsibilities in Iraq any more than we already have.
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Fuck it from behind.
This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 5-21-04 @ 11:27 AM
TheMojoPin
05-21-2004, 07:40 AM
If we get the UN involved (And hopefully other large countries), we can do what we did in Germany after WW2 and split Iraq up into different "sectors" that are each directly monitored and occupied by a specific country. That way we don't have to try and spread all of our forces over Iraq, and just focus on our "sector."
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curtoid
05-21-2004, 08:11 AM
Well, today is Spain's last day there - they've quite.
Going it alone, there's no way to win. If we bring in others (as others have said) and formulate a real plan to stabilize and support, while reducing the risks to our men and women, then it has a chance of success.
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jeffdwright2001
05-21-2004, 08:20 AM
Let's just send in these guys and be done with it.
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This message was edited by jeffdwright2001 on 5-21-04 @ 12:21 PM
Snoogans
05-21-2004, 08:21 AM
LOST?
if you wanna look at this from all aspects, we got fuckin tanked. we were like the chargers in the super bowl against the niners in 94 (take that duke)
seriously though, basically everyone hates us, no one is listenin, and our troops are gettin killed for what seems to be doing nothing but making me pay more for gas
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East Side Dave
05-21-2004, 08:39 AM
I won.
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mikeyboy
05-21-2004, 08:41 AM
You cheated.
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East Side Dave
05-21-2004, 08:42 AM
Yes. Yes I did.
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Yerdaddy
05-21-2004, 08:53 AM
If we get the UN involved (And hopefully other large countries), we can do what we did in Germany after WW2 and split Iraq up into different "sectors" that are each directly monitored and occupied by a specific country. That way we don't have to try and spread all of our forces over Iraq, and just focus on our "sector."
What country is going to take a lead roll in cleaning up our mess? One of the major problems with the UN system is that countries don't like to send troops into losing battles for missions that even get mandated by the Security Council. That's why the largest contributors of peacekeeping forces are countries like Pakistan, India and Sub-Saharan African nations that need the money they recieve in exchange for troops. In this case, it would be seen as cleaning up our mess and the risks are too high for anyone to want to face their public with the fact that they sent troops to bail out the richest and most powerful country in the world that ignored their opinions in the first place. The only way we will get more international troops is to give more a legitimate decision-making role to them through the Security Council process. The Bush administration has shown that it is not going to do that. The only reason they were forced to go to the UN for the transitional government problem is because we had to preserve the support from the majority of Shiia by bending to the demands of legitimacy and a democratic process from Sistani. And because we didn't have any better ideas ourselves, and have the option of blaming the UN for a botched hand-off.
And partitioning of Germany was forced upon us by the Soviet insistence that they be able to impose their economic system on their share of the spoils. They wanted to punish the Germans and steal what manufacturing capacity they had left, and we couldn't dissuade them from doing it. So we had to accept partition. But the partition was our last chance to salvage a fair occupation of our sector in Germany, but it wasn't a help in itself.
Troop levels are certainly a major problem and have been from the get-go, and Germany does lend a good examle of how big a problem it is: <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A10161-2004May8?language=printer" target="_blank">A Proven Formula for How Many Troops We Need</a>
When Germany surrendered in May 1945, the U.S. Army had more than 1.6 million men within the borders of the defeated Nazi state. Overnight they became occupation troops: Their orders were to spread out over every square mile of German territory and demonstrate without a doubt that they were in charge. U.S. troops secured every road junction, bridge, border post, government building, factory, bank, warehouse; anything of the slightest conceivable importance had a guard of GIs around it, and so did a good many things of little or no importance, too.
Army plans called for an occupation force of some 400,000 in the American zone for the first 18 months -- or one U.S. soldier for every 40 Germans.
When NATO forces went into Kosovo in 1999, they followed the same proven formula: 50,000 troops for a population of 2 million, one soldier for every 40 inhabitants. A recent Rand Corp. study by military analyst James Quinlivan concluded that the bare minimum ratio to provide security for the inhabitants of an occupied territory, let alone deal with an active insurgency, is one to 50.
In Iraq today, coalition forces number about 160,000, or one for every 160 Iraqis. (Even adding in an estimated 20,000 civilian security contractors working in Iraq, that still translates to one for every 140 Iraqis.) In response to the unremitting attacks and continuing instability, U.S. commanders have now canceled plans to cut troop strength by some 20,000 this year. It is a significant about-face, and one that has unquestionably put a severe strain on both regular and reserve units whose deployments have been extended well beyond what they had originally been told.
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Fuck
I'll meet you halfway and say "we won the war but lost the peace".
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Yerdaddy
05-21-2004, 02:41 PM
Deal.
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Fuck it from behind.
Tall_James
05-21-2004, 04:02 PM
Deal.
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capcity017
05-21-2004, 06:40 PM
It aint over till its over,
while is doesnt look too great....If bush n co would stop worrying about world opinion...and do what needs to be done.....declare martial law....dis arm everyone......kill those whop resist....we dont need more prisoners....and weddings....should be w/ out firearms....or near the syrian border......
while is doesnt look too great....If bush n co would stop worrying about world opinion...and do what needs to be done.....declare martial law....dis arm everyone......kill those whop resist....we dont need more prisoners....and weddings....should be w/ out firearms....or near the syrian border......
Nice to see Christopher Reeve chime in.
blakjeezis
05-21-2004, 06:49 PM
while is doesnt look too great....If bush n co would stop worrying about world opinion...and do what needs to be done.....declare martial law....dis arm everyone......kill those whop resist....we dont need more prisoners....and weddings....should be w/ out firearms....or near the syrian border......
Nice to see Christopher Reeve chime in.
Dude, HBox, that is an absolutely brilliant post. I don't give out compliments a lot, but that post is so funny I wish I'd written it. Well done, sir.
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TheMojoPin
05-22-2004, 08:56 AM
No, it's Jack Palance!
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reeshy
05-22-2004, 09:09 AM
Period. We lost.\Ok...can we have a do over then?????
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Mike Teacher
05-22-2004, 09:13 AM
seriously, i dont get it and i feel stupid.
someone splain. im missing a reference and i feel like Dennis Miller just shot one by me.
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CaptClown
05-22-2004, 10:37 AM
I thought it was Steven Hawking.
I thought it was Captain Pike myself.
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East Side Dave
05-22-2004, 02:30 PM
I thought it was Yoda on his deathbed in "Jedi."
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Tall_James
05-22-2004, 02:54 PM
No - It was Spock at the end of "Star Trek II"
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East Side Dave
05-22-2004, 03:00 PM
Uh-uh---it was Ralph Maccio in "The Outsiders."
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Tall_James
05-22-2004, 04:21 PM
Nope. It's this kid from "Malcolm In the Middle"
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Captain Rooster
05-22-2004, 07:00 PM
Lost. Lost?
Your fucking ass is posting on some pansy-ass message board and, "we lost."
Shut the fuck up; wake up.
Your ass should thank the almighty you are sleeping sound tonight.
What the fuck?
I say we should be thankful for ZERO (0) attacks since 9/11.
Others would tuck their tail over their balls like a dog and piss the rug.
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Your ass should thank the almighty you are sleeping sound tonight.
I say we should be thankful for ZERO (0) attacks since 9/11.
Neither statement has anything to do with our war in Iraq.
Doomstone
05-23-2004, 12:15 AM
Lost. Lost?
Your fucking ass is posting on some pansy-ass message board and, "we lost."
Shut the fuck up; wake up.
Your ass should thank the almighty you are sleeping sound tonight.
What the fuck?
I say we should be thankful for ZERO (0) attacks since 9/11.
Others would tuck their tail over their balls like a dog and piss the rug.
Listen, Rooster. I'm sure you love the United States as much as I do.
Yes, we lost. The sooner we admit this, the better off we'll be.
I'm awake; I can barely sleep at night.
There is no almighty, but I'm not sleeping soundly regardless. Not since our president got us into a war that increased anti-Americanism around the world.
...
Zero attacks? Well there weren't any attacks on our homeland between the first WTC attack and 9/11. Attacks on overseas targets...sure...but that's happening now. Nick Berg....how many troops killed in Iraq by AQ? Who knows?
Others would tuck their tail over their balls like a dog and piss the rug.
We're in a horrible situation. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't. I see it as: GWB got us engaged in a situation we never should have been involved in in the first place, a situation that left us with 1) Occupy Iraq, and face insurgency or 2) Leave, and face future terrorism, or 3) Nuke everything, and turn THE ENTIRE WORLD against us.
Seriously, we have the strongest military, but we don't own the world.
We can't win the peace in Iraq. Not on our terms. On their terms, it'll be a theocracy.
I'm not blaming the troops, I'm blaming the idiot planners. Morons.
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canofsoup15
05-23-2004, 05:51 AM
2) Leave, and face future terrorism
We will face future terrorism whether or not we are in Iraq, in fact we already have, look what happened to Spain.
3) Nuke everything
Even considering bringing atomic weapons into this is completely ridiculous. I think (or at least hope) that our nation has the intelligence not to nuke anyone ever again, and especially the middle east.
Seriously, we have the strongest military, but we don't own the world.
We don't own the world, however it sure seems like we are the ones who are responsible for everything. We have troops stationed everywhere, we still have thousands stationed in Vietnam, and unless countries can start taking care of themselves and solve their differences, I have a feeling we will be the "mother" of the world for awhile now.
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Captain Rooster
05-23-2004, 07:13 AM
Lost. Lost?
Your fucking ass is posting on some pansy-ass message board and, "we lost."
Shut the fuck up; wake up.
Your ass should thank the almighty you are sleeping sound tonight.
What the fuck?
I say we should be thankful for ZERO (0) attacks since 9/11.
Others would tuck their tail over their balls like a dog and piss the rug.
Sorry 'bout this post. I was a tad tipsy last night. Surprised I didnt type a drink order into the post, as well.
But...still...we have not lost the war. That's silly. We may choose to pull-out but that has nothing to do with winning or losing. Ian asymetrical war, there are no clear victories, just sheer prevention.
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TheMojoPin
05-23-2004, 07:18 AM
I liked the earlier quote, about how "we won the war, but lost the peace." The "main" war itself was a spectacular success. And even this new secondary "war" IS being fought very well. But the aspect of stabilizing and rebuilding Iraq is where everything has almost completely stalled out. And I don't know what the answer is. I don't think anyone does, or even CAN have an answer...and that's scary part.
This is unexploed territory for the world.
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we still have thousands stationed in Vietnam
I think you mean Korea.
I liked the earlier quote, about how "we won the war, but lost the peace."
Thank you.
The "main" war itself was a spectacular success. And even this new secondary "war" IS being fought very well. But the aspect of stabilizing and rebuilding Iraq is where everything has almost completely stalled out. And I don't know what the answer is. I don't think anyone does, or even CAN have an answer...and that's scary part.
As has been said before, there was no forethought given to how to deal with rebuilding a post-war Iraq. The military succesfully defeated Saddam's forces -- hence "mission accomplished". Yet the military suddenly had to turn it's mission from being a "warfighter" to "diplomat" and/or "peacekeeper".
Our only previous experience with this, Germany and Japan (and to a lesser extent Korea), were "easier" (for lack of a better word) given the fact that each was a homogenous society. Iraq is a country of different ethnicities, religions, etc. You'd think we'd have learned lessons from the former Yugoslavia that old grudges would flare up. The U.S. and UN in have had a permanent presence in the Balkans for almost 10 years now. I suspect the same will have to happen in Iraq.
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canofsoup15
05-23-2004, 10:55 AM
Damnit, I knew it was one or the other, I could've sworn it was Vietnam. It is Korea though.
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TheMojoPin
05-23-2004, 12:16 PM
Our only previous experience with this, Germany and Japan (and to a lesser extent Korea), were "easier" (for lack of a better word) given the fact that each was a homogenous society. Iraq is a country of different ethnicities, religions, etc. You'd think we'd have learned lessons from the former Yugoslavia that old grudges would flare up. The U.S. and UN in have had a permanent presence in the Balkans for almost 10 years now. I suspect the same will have to happen in Iraq.
Good point. Iraq as we know was essentially just slapped together by the British when they withdrew from the region and had to hand power over to some kind of centralized government...and thus was born "modern" Iraq.
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capcity017
05-23-2004, 06:19 PM
well no shit were gonna be there for a long time....til the area settles...like it ever will...
the un..what a joke.....corruption there ....will be proven....
To all you faggots who think it wont be won...we may have lost the battle for hearts n minds..[ like we ever were gonna win it] ...and now that al queda - iran is working behind the sceens....its no wonder...some of you " quitters' think that way
as time goes on..the link to al queada and islam itself will appear....they have been preaching hate the us , great satan for decades now....
they dont abode by the rules of war....and everybody gets excited when we dont either
dis agree....fine......name call .....your a flammin fag whos going to burn in hell.....
not a sermon..just a thought ....
TheMojoPin
05-23-2004, 06:36 PM
"Y'know...yooooou...are my....number one....guuuyyyyyyyyy!"
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the un..what a joke.....corruption there ....will be proven....
If you know it already, why don't YOU prove it?
and now that al queda - iran is working behind the sceens....
Guess it's better to assume that while ignoring Al Queda and Saudi Arabia working together right in front of our faces.
the link to al queada and islam itself will appear....
Uhm...you're a bit late to the table on this one. Why do you think they're called "RELIGIOUS extremists?"
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Yerdaddy
05-23-2004, 07:31 PM
well no shit were gonna be there for a long time....til the area settles...like it ever will...
the un..what a joke.....corruption there ....will be proven....
To all you faggots who think it wont be won...we may have lost the battle for hearts n minds..[ like we ever were gonna win it] ...and now that al queda - iran is working behind the sceens....its no wonder...some of you " quitters' think that way
as time goes on..the link to al queada and islam itself will appear....they have been preaching hate the us , great satan for decades now....
they dont abode by the rules of war....and everybody gets excited when we dont either
dis agree....fine......name call .....your a flammin fag whos going to burn in hell.....
not a sermon..just a thought ....
I was real proud you finished that 17th mile mr. "capacity" (wink wink). I hope your face heals up real purty.
We're in good hands folks. Nothin to worry bout.
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Fuck it from behind.
well no shit were gonna be there for a long time....til the area settles...like it ever will...
the un..what a joke.....corruption there ....will be proven....
To all you faggots who think it wont be won...we may have lost the battle for hearts n minds..[ like we ever were gonna win it] ...and now that al queda - iran is working behind the sceens....its no wonder...some of you " quitters' think that way
as time goes on..the link to al queada and islam itself will appear....they have been preaching hate the us , great satan for decades now....
they dont abode by the rules of war....and everybody gets excited when we dont either
dis agree....fine......name call .....your a flammin fag whos going to burn in hell.....
not a sermon..just a thought ....
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shamus mcfitzy
05-23-2004, 08:20 PM
"we won the war, but lost the peace."
exactly. In the words of the Guiness scientists "Brilliant!!!!"
We eliminated Saddam Hussein from Iraq, and that still is wierd for me to think about. That means we won this war. A troops did what they were supposed to do. Now it just seems like our people are just out of place.
Its pretty much obvious that going in alone (meaning not with the UN or at least a good 5 countries that the average person could think of) was a big mistake. We can still salvage the situation and let someone else take some of the burden of some of this. And if the decision isn't made by November, well, I think it will cost people their jobs.
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